patrick.net

thunderlips11 says

nosf41 says

Leader of the free world does not go around apologizing to everyone and does not bow to a foreign country leader (Saudi king).

How about this?

How does one become a Constitutional Law scholar without a single paper published anywhere?

How does one go about being a Millionaire Entrepreneur when every business they ever owned went bankrupt?
But then again, Ken Lay…

We are in complete agreement there. We can neither call Obama a constitutional law scholar nor Bush a successful entrepreneur.

I am aware of the first picture. I have seen the video on nightly news with Bush and Saudi king walk hand in hand.
It looks unusual to me, but in Arabic culture this is apparently a normal behavior between friends.

If you wanted a serious discussion about the topic, why did you post the fake "kiss" photo. It only portrays you as a partisan hack.

NOSF41:

Whether our presidents hold hands, bow, hug or kiss other countries leaders they are the leaders of the free world.

America always has the option of shoving a M1 Carbine down anyones back in order to hold them accountable, with the #1 military in the world you better believe these countries no we are not kidding around. The past 8 years we have made no improvements in education, foreign policy, economics, or with the war against terror.

Here is how I see it:

Education - No child left behind is nice in theory but in reality without the receiving the same funding as we did with Iraq, the program will fail. I was happy to see Bush Jr. kick off this program but it still needs funding else we should prepare to watch it fail. We must UP our investment in education and lower our investment in WAR. We need to kick the parents in the butts to make this program successful, there needs to be less TV and more time spent reading, studying the various subjects provided.

War Against Terror - There were no weapons of mass destruction, therefore, we are fighting for unknown reasons and spending unnecessarily to protect a nation that we destroyed. 50B per year to fund this war, and Obama is continuing the same policies. This leads me to believe once he got into office he found out we have other long term interests at play with the region...."interests" that the American public have not been made aware. We need to refocus our efforts on what is going on in America, Obama needs to act on what he said he would and get our troops out of these failed states. Yes, we should leave a residual force to prevent any of our enemies from interferring in local matters. Yes, we should reap the benefits of the oil profits...we own these countries. Invest that 1.2billion in innovations of weapon technologies and FBI agents.

Economics - This is not a partisan issue. Plain and simply, George Bush Sr., Bill Clinton, George Bush Jr. did not push for any regulations on businesses or the financial sector. They were too busy reversing the S&L and DOT com downturns. The Gramm-Leach act repealed regulations put forth after the crash of 1929 leaving the gates wide open for creative loans. Bush Sr.-Clinton-Bush Jr. in their attempts to ward off the S&L Crisis of 1989 and the DOT com crash of 1999 had no other choice. It worked for a little while but as with all gimmicks it did not last. We cannot fund GDP with the equity in the housing market, we have to bring jobs back to America and allow the markets to reset. Prices of products, real estate must drop to a point where they are in line with salaries. New industries must be created and dominated by American businesses, trickling down to the American Worker, then to the products that we buy.

Again, do not let the negative atmosphere surrounding the Bush presidency hold you back from supporting our current president. We are attempting to move forward with progress in the form of job creation, regulation, improved health care, and displomacy. With all the negative press the US has received the past 8 years, we needed a statesmen in the office of president....someone who could lead us down the right path in terms of foreign policy, education, war, and economics. Simply put, we cannot afford to bully our neighbors when we have our very own internal issues that need to be dealt with.

If you plan to respond, try using facts in place of the one liners that you have been using to answer my previous posts. You seem to want to answer a question with a question or deflect attention from the facts.

Fact - The Gramm-Leach act caused this downturn and was a poor attempt to stifle the S&L Crisis and Dotcom bust.
Fact - Less regulation has allowed an increase in the risks taken by the financial sector
Not Fact - If we bow or hold hands with other nations leaders, we are not the leaders of the free world.

Go with the facts in your reply.

4X

Thunderlips:

I have concerns over that also, us not making products is the #1 cause of the slowdown in our GDP. If we bring jobs back, then our GDP will increase tenfold.

"If Economics is a science, how come most of the economists didn’t see this happening? Weather Forecasters generally reach easy consensus when a hurricane is forming. They don’t all miss the fact of a tropical storm developing. The Market is not a god, and economics is not an oracle."

In response, I foresee either prices of products decreasing to match the wages and/or a deep decline in the # of middle class families in which both scenarios will lead to a drop in revenues for the corporations of America. Now, that does not take into consideration the influx of people coming to our country that will sustain corporate revenues. Either way, the American Dream (House, Family, and Adventure of Vacations) will be lost for many...primarily the middle class and poor.

What are you thoughts on the direction of the American Dream?

Peter P:

In response to your reply below, NO, I dont want to punish thought crimes. I want to ensure that competitive advantage is not given to those in the workplace simply because they are "likeable". Every sport in America gives competitive advantage to the best performer and not the canidate who is likeable. In business, however, we are able to use influence and politics to gain a competitive advantage. This is not what is considered "Equal Employment Opportunity". Yes, bias exists in every one of us but we must keep moving forward with new practices that avoid promoting the "likeable" and actually promote the most "competitive" canidate. For example, it is a proven fact that not so good looking people and women make 15% less than the white male. This also applies to minorities, whom are sometimes discounted from the interview process through name recognition (Laquita, Maria, Jose, Jamal)....this trend has to stop.

I agree that the spread of capitalism will result in the trickle down of wealth, however, quoting Rush Limbaugh only shows that you are willing to stand by a bigot. He holds power in the Republican party only because 25% of the base left the Democratic party after the passing of the Civil Rights act of 1964. These persons could not fathom women & minorities being a part of the American Dream.

America has done a great job of righting the ills of society however, the subconscious discriminatory behaviours still exist.
Do you want to prosecute thought crimes now? One cannot legislate niceness. That subconscious discrimination will only grow stronger. The best way to right the ills of society is to promote economic development by spreading capitalism. Through the elimination of poverty our differences can be reconciled. “Poverty and Suffering are not due to unequal distribution of goods and resources, but to the unequal distribution of capitalism” - Rush Limbaugh

Leader of the "Free" world.

The last 8 years has taught me that "Free World" is a small word, used to justify horrific atrocities.

I wouldn't feel "Free" if any country was over here for any reason, bombing my neighborhood and killing people at weddings and shit.

We used to be the leader of the "Free world" but the Internet is now. So step down off the podium gramps that jig is up.

Every sport in America gives competitive advantage to the best performer and not the canidate who is likeable.

But life is a game, not a sport. Being likable is most definitely one of the most important competitive advantages, perhaps after force projection.

I do not understand the animosity toward Rush Limbaugh. He has many good ideas and he is successful enough to have a Gulfstream G550.

BTW, any real capitalist will only see color green in people. Any employer who ignores competitive advantages will not thrive or even survive for long.

On the other hand, the government ought not to tell employers who they can hire and who they should not reject. This is not how the market works. And it is most definitely how we should not force the world to change.

The Internet allows every person to become a soft moralist in the comfort of his home, without real actions. I don't care if the Internet is more than a series of tubes but if this trend continues our downfall is nigh.

Peter P says

I do not understand the animosity toward Rush Limbaugh. He has many good ideas and he is successful enough to have a Gulfstream G550

Unfortunately, it has been proven time and again that it does not take intelligence or morality to become wealthy. Jon Gosselin can probably afford a Gulfstream, certainly Howard Stern can. Rush made his money by spouting half-truths, bogus hypotheticals, and outright lies. All of it designed to scare.

And, don't worry. The world is not going to end. US is not going the way of the Roman Empire... The country has been in far worse predicaments in the past and has come out fine. Remember the public debt as a % of GDP was actually higher during the end of Reagan's term than it is now. Even after the worst recession since the Great Depression. And it was much, much, much higher after WWII. The country will have to make some hard choices and tighten the belt, but it will. Clinton showed how much can be saved in a short time.

Peter P says

I do not understand the animosity toward Rush Limbaugh.

I had a boss who had to listen to Rush on the AM radio EVERY SINGLE day. I can't understand why people feel they have to listen to his show every day other than craving for reinforcing their ideas? The repetitious hatred reminded me of fire&brimstone preachers. It's pretty sad that some people need that kind of brainwashing & bile to feel good about themselves.

Clarence 13X says

Go with the facts in your reply.
4X

Hi Lorenzo (or whatever your alias of the day is)

Which fact is questionable in my previous post: Obama did not publish a single law paper and became a constitutional law scholar?

Please spare us praises of Obama's greatness if you are not willing to address a simple question on the topic.

Could you create separate posts on Miscellaneous thread about each individual Obama's policy you want to promote? It will be easier to debate separate issues rather than compiling everything into an unrelated topic.

"And, don’t worry. The world is not going to end. US is not going the way of the Roman Empire… The country has been in far worse predicaments in the past and has come out fine. Remember the public debt as a % of GDP was actually higher during the end of Reagan’s term than it is now. Even after the worst recession since the Great Depression. And it was much, much, much higher after WWII. The country will have to make some hard choices and tighten the belt, but it will."

Actually the public debt as % of GDP under Reagan was about 40% lower than today and only about 20% higher after WWII. See http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html . That's not even taking into consideration at least 1 trillion additional dollars a year of debt for as far as the eye can see. Huge amounts of the public debt during WWII was spent buying armaments aka building up industry that was battered by the depression. Industry promptly switched to producing consumer items after the war with almost no competition since the entire rest of the industrialized world was smoking ruin. Private debt was virtually non existent in 1945. There were no unfunded federal liabilities to the tune of 70 trillion dollars aka social security,medicare, and medicaid in 1945. State and local governments did not have unfunded liabilities, aka public employee health and pension systems amounting to god only knows how much in 1945.

Pretty stark and grim comparison between then and now. Public debt can be productive as the period after WWII and the Guilded age proved. But the debt must be a real investment in the future, not an orgy of public spending with nothing to show for it. No country in history has run up this kind of unproductive debt and remained economically viable. Excessive borrowing cannot be cured by more borrowing. It won't be the Roman Empire since there are no Vandals or Visigoths living in Canada planning the sack of Washington DC, although it might be a pretty good idea. It could however very easily be Argentina of the early 20th century or Britain after WWII when the wealthiest country in the world at the time very abruptly became an economic footnote. Anyone who doesn't believe this is possible needs to read a lot more history. It has happened for thousands of years time and time again. Time will tell. I really hope I am wrong, but the numbers are daunting at best.

I was really surprised that a canny politician like Obama didn't listen to people like Volker and take the pain as soon as he got in office so he could dump all the blame on Bush. Punting the problems down the road means things are very likely to really blow up in his face just in time for the next presidential election. When are the hard choices and the belt tightening due to start? There haven't been any so far in this entire crises. Just borrowing more and more money. Don't worry, be happy.

Bob-

bob2356 says

I was really surprised that a canny politician like Obama didn’t listen to people like Volker and take the pain as soon as he got in office so he could dump all the blame on Bush. Punting the problems down the road means things are very likely to really blow up in his face just in time for the next presidential election. When are the hard choices and the belt tightening due to start? There haven’t been any so far in this entire crises. Just borrowing more and more money. Don’t worry, be happy.

You can't tighten the belt during a recession. If we learned anything from the Great Depression, I would hope that is it. First you stimulate the economy, then you reduce spending. That's Econ 101.

First you stimulate the economy, then you reduce spending. That’s Econ 101.

I thought it should be...

First you stimulate the economy, then you spend some more. That's Gov 101.

Andrew Jackson did not stimulate the economy and the depression ended in just 5 years.

Great Depression was so great in extent only because of FDR's policies.

I really see nothing wrong about befriending oil-rich nations. That is very much in our best interest.

Guys, we need the oil.

One big reason for high tuition is simply government loan guarantees that encourage people to borrow more for college.

Thomas Sowell makes some good arguments about it here:

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5171

We have an inefficient Education system that only has one answer for children. Go to college.

I totally agree. The society needs to be educated (pun intended) that degrees are NOT required in most jobs.

In fact, many jobs do not require anything beyond junior high.

A college degree will only turn a mediocre person into an indebted mediocre person.

It takes the will to thrive in the real world to transform someone into a great man.

Clarence 13X says

Go with the facts in your reply.
4X

Hi Lorenzo (or whatever your alias of the day is) Which fact is questionable in my previous post: Obama did not publish a single law paper and became a constitutional law scholar? Please spare us praises of Obama’s greatness if you are not willing to address a simple question on the topic. Could you create separate posts on Miscellaneous thread about each individual Obama’s policy you want to promote? It will be easier to debate separate issues rather than compiling everything into an unrelated topic.

Today i will be known as America the beautiful...I wasnt referencing this one line but the other 14 that were not as pointed. This is a somewhat true statement about Obama. It would be like a Liberal saying that Bush never fought in a War and or a conservative bringing up the Bill Clinton weed inhaling scandal. These points are not relevant to the betterment of our nation. How is Obama not writing a paper going to better our nation. Like I have said before, your attacks on Obama are the result of the negative tone taken towards Bush's presidency. The only difference is that Bush screwed up our nation by bringing us in this war....and from what is seems, Obama is preparing to do the same.

You wouldnt like me as your president because I would act too decisively with the following:

Cut all non-profit programs
Increase regulation on businesses in the financial sector
Cut all Welfare to immigrants
Cut all Welfare to citizens after 18 mos.
Increased penalties for gang crimes, if 1 member commits a crime then they all go to jail
Increased penalties for corporate fraud,
no profits = no bonuses
25% of all Oil revenues for IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN come to America as repayment for the buttkicking we put on those countries.
1 Month vacation for all American Workers
25% revenue penalty for all companies offshoring jobs, result would be an immediate decrease of the 10% unemployment
Pull out of Afghanistan and deal with the blowback
Pull out of IRAQ and deal with the blowback
Protect our interests in Afghanistan or Iraq...bring the Oil money here to the US

None of this has anything to do with Obama, Bush or your weak policies. America needs to exert her dominance and take control of the situation at hand.

Thunderlips:

Indian IT guys in India are 1/4 of the price of American IT guys. There is no way an American IT guy can be 400% more productive. But Indians live in India, where the cost of living is much lower. Americans live in America, where the cost of living - and college tuition - is much more expensive. 13X: Exactly, for this reason we have to bring the jobs back to America less we face further decline in housing and other markets. We cannot buy what we cannot afford. The services industry in America will never compete with Indians, Mexicans or other 3rd world countries. We are being lied to..

Economists conveniently forget that all of the Asian Tigers - Malaysia, Japan, South Korea, China - all have massive protectionist tariffs on imports - when they discuss how fast those countries grow. 13X: So its the tariffs that have been removed from our trade agreements while other countries still tax exports, heh? As I understand free trade agreements have little to do with offshoring although the two are intermingled in conversation. Please explain how free trade allows for a company to offshore and/or creates negative impact on our GDP?

thunderlips11 says

The origional bush picture you posted was chopped to make it look like a mouth kiss. This next pic you posted is the actual untouched picture showing a kiss on the cheek, probobly each cheek as is custom in different parts of the world. A very sad attempt on your part. And it doesn't offend my world views, just my photo chopping views. Carry on.

elvis says

What I can’t figure out is why our cost of living, college tuition prices etc. are so much more than other countries. What do you think caused our prices to be so high?

Perhaps the colleges should be asked that. Would we find many are unionized and have been pumping salaries higher
all the while crying that programs are being cut. For a non-profit entity, they have been growing their investments into billions.

If you guys could leave all the rhetoric of Bush - Obama - Clinton out of this we would be much better off.

Who cares is Bush held hands with another leader?
Who cares if Bush kiss him on the cheek?
Who cares if Obama has Muslim heritage?
Who cares if Obama doesnt have the long format birth certificate?
Who cares if Obama deserves the Nobel Prize?
Who cares if Clinton inhaled or not?
Who cares if Clinton slept around?
Who cares is Obama bowed or not?

We should only care about the direction of this nation, none of these factors have anything to do with positive growth of our economy. As you can see I am a PROGRESSIVE, Bush holding hands with the Saudi's showed that our President has respect for foreign cultures. America's culture of homophobia is not shared by many other nations. The scottish wear dresses "kilts", so if our president decided to wear one out of respect then so be it.

If that is what it takes to develop a strong relationship with foreign nations then that is what we do. Remember, you wouldnt want me as your president because my first actions would be to prepare our Military to wipe many nations off the planet and/or put them under border patrol by our military. We cannot afford to be a warring nation any longer.

Stick to the facts.

thunderlips11 says
But all we hear about from our elected officials - Democrat or Republican - and the Repeaters on the Mainstream Media is demonization of Iran, and worse atrocities from Saudi Arabia are seldom mentioned and when they are quickly passed over as an aside.

Saudi Arabia is not building a nuclear bomb and missiles to carry it. Their leaders did not threaten to wipe out Israel.

Saudi Arabia is 10x worse than Iran, where women can be doctors, have jobs in mixed-gender workplaces, attend co-ed colleges, and drive themselves, but all you ever hear about is how women are treated in Iran.

Why should we care how other countries treat their people? Saudi Arabia is more important to us because of something we want.

Why should we have any concern as to how the women are treated in other countries, especially with all the turmoil going on here in the US. I would not be concerned about my neighbors children when my own are going hungry?

Are you one of those far left liberals I have been reading about?...your making the progressive movement look bad, very bad.

So lemme get this straight, you touchy feely "Change" at the expense of others, Progressive libs, are really interested in Change for your self.

As for the pic the kissy face one was out side, not a photo shop, the second one, was taken indoors. It's not really a kiss, Bush leans in and whispered in the Prince's ear. "I can free up the rest of my afternoon, if you have a flat somewhere. "
To which the Prince replied."Let's go I'll make Falafel."

But Saudi Arabia is already trading with us. Of course we should try to befriend Iran too.

For the same reason, we must improve relationship with Russia. I am serious.

Our friendship with Western Europe may be over-rated. There is little we are get from EU anymore. At least nothing Russia cannot provide.

4x, perhaps you are really a conservative. Welcome to the club. :-)

Well-armed neutrality is my preferred policy.

I agree.

Peter:

I have always stated that I am conservative-progressive. I try to vote on what makes sense....and it doesnt make sense for us to put our focus elsewhere.

Tenounce:

So lemme get this straight, you touchy feely “Change” at the expense of others, Progressive libs, are really interested in Change for your self.

You really should read up the differences between PROGRESSIVE and LIBERAL. Liberals believe anything goes (GAY Marriage, Welfare, Lega Marijuana) where as PROGRESSIVE simply want improvements made (Civil Rights, Women Rights, NAFTA, Globalization) for the betterment of our society. Some progressive ideas are conservative in nature, which is why Clinton pushed NAFTA and GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY. The problem is that most liberals are poor, do not understand business and vote based on racial/sexual preference. This is not to say conservatives dont, as when the 1964 Civil Rights act passed well over 25% of dems left the party and switched Replublican....this indicates a hint of racism exists within the Republican party. It also would give a clear answer as to why we find the REBEL flag flying at so many conservative rallys.

I am conservative in business, progressive in public policy....someone has to prevent big business from eating the American public alive with offshoring. You do realize that each of the corporations that exist in America would run their business without people if they could right? If all they needed was for the CEO to go into the office on a daily basis and press a green button then they would do just that.

I have always stated that I am conservative-progressive.

There is a political party in Canada for you. :-)

I guess a balance is always good.

If all they needed was for the CEO to go into the office on a daily basis and press a green button then they would do just that.

Power needs to go back to shareholders, the true master of the corporation.

Many problems are really caused by management having too much power and/or too little oversight. This is why I think privately-held companies tend to enjoy more longevity as successful businesses (e.g. Cargill, Bloomberg). Public companies are really just a bunch of numbers that are somehow linked to bonuses and/or stock options.

"You really should read up the differences between PROGRESSIVE and LIBERAL. Liberals believe anything goes (GAY Marriage, Welfare, Lega Marijuana) where as PROGRESSIVE simply want improvements made (Civil Rights, Women Rights, NAFTA, Globalization) for the betterment of our society."
Oh so one's a Pompous assbag!

now THAT was funny. Thanks.

“You really should read up the differences between PROGRESSIVE and LIBERAL. Liberals believe anything goes (GAY Marriage, Welfare, Lega Marijuana) where as PROGRESSIVE simply want improvements made (Civil Rights, Women Rights, NAFTA, Globalization) for the betterment of our society.”
Oh so one’s a Pompous assbag!

As I have said before, a 3rd grade education wont get you far in debate. You might want to try that name calling technique in your class tomorrow.

Ha, I love your failed logic, your retort to my zinger was some sanctimonious holier than thou response, suggesting that I only have a third grade education, whilst the gist of what you are saying. Is that I am some how inferior in a debate for my use of verbal wrangling, yet you call me a third grade drop out.

You really make my case sir.

Tenounce, have you read Orwell's "Politics and the English Language"?

Its pretty good. He offers some thoughts on how best to express ourselves plainly and directly. Here are the rules he offers:

1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
2. Never us a long word where a short one will do.
3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

and:

A scrupulous writer, in every sentence that he writes, will ask himself at least four questions, thus:
1. What am I trying to say?
2. What words will express it?
3. What image or idiom will make it clearer?
4. Is this image fresh enough to have an effect?
And he will probably ask himself two more:
1. Could I put it more shortly?

2. Have I said anything that is avoidably ugly?

So in keeping, whats wrong with this statement:

"I am not, indeed, sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelley had not become, out of an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien [sic] to the founder of that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate."

or this one:

"Ha, I love your failed logic, you retort to my zinger with some sanctimonious holier than thou response, suggesting that I only have a third grade education, whilst the gist of what you are saying. Is that I am some how inferior in a debate for my use of verbal wrangling, yet you call me a third grade drop out.
You really make my case sir."

There's some pompous assbaggery for you from me. But you really should check out the article.

or this one: "As I have said before, a 3rd grade education wont get you far in debate. You might want to try that name calling technique in your class tomorrow."

kentm says

Tenounce, have you read Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language”?

I have one rule when I write...

Do I believe what I'm writing?

I do want to believe in what Orson Wells once read I really do, but I just can't seem to muster up anything past, "I will drink no wine before it's time." how [sic] is that? Oh yeah! that's right, I don't give a crap.

kentm says

Tenounce, have you read Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language”?

Tenouncetrout says

I do want to believe in what Orson Wells once read I really do, but I just can’t seem to muster up anything past, “I will drink no wine before it’s time.”

Are we talking about George Orwell or Orson Wells?