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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


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2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   34,024 views  738 comments

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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

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Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


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595   Eman   2024 Mar 6, 7:14am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so here is the choice, for me, anyway. Buy a new Subaru BRZ tS, around $37k before taxes. And yes, it comes standard with a manual. Or, pay about $83-90k before taxes, depending on the bells and whistles (Z51, front lift feature, etc.) to buy a Corvette Stingray 2LT. Only comes in an automatic. And no, did not price insurance yet.








May I ask why the Subaru BRZ rather than Honda Civic Type R?
596   WookieMan   2024 Mar 6, 7:14am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so here is the choice, for me, anyway. Buy a new Subaru BRZ tS, around $37k before taxes. And yes, it comes standard with a manual. Or, pay about $83-90k before taxes, depending on the bells and whistles (Z51, front lift feature, etc.) to buy a Corvette Stingray 2LT. Only comes in an automatic. And no, did not price insurance yet.








I don't do 2 door cars. Had a 2 door Jeep when I was younger. Even without kids at that time is was shit. Being taller I could't do either car really. SUV or bust.

That said I assume the Subaru is AWD? Don't need to know where you live, but if it snows the Subaru is a no brainer financially and safety wise. I bought my house for the price of the Corvette and am $200k up. I don't spend a ton on depreciating products. So my vote would be the Subaru to save money. Plus manual and you can drive like an actual man.
597   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 6, 7:19am  

WookieMan says

That said I assume the Subaru is AWD?

No, actually RWD. I do have an Subie Outback, AWD of course - great car but the GUI is a little slow. Agree about the manual. Looking at homes in Idaho. Currently in liberal shathole MD.
598   WookieMan   2024 Mar 6, 7:39am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

WookieMan says


That said I assume the Subaru is AWD?

No, actually RWD. I do have an Subie Outback, AWD of course - great car but the GUI is a little slow. Agree about the manual. Looking at homes in Idaho. Currently in liberal shathole MD.

I have no issues with Subarus. Multiple friends with decade old models still running. You're gonna get snow in Idaho, but if you have the Outback as a back up you'll be fine with the BRZ 7-9 months of the year roughly. Also depends where in Idaho. Not sure if they use salt out there, so that $40-50k price difference could literally eat the Corvette. I'm a cheapskate though and save and invest. The Corvette is cool looking, I won't lie. My vote is the Subaru.
599   Eman   2024 Mar 6, 7:57pm  

People, who buy the Cybertruck now, are either social media influencers, or have F U money. Everyone wraps their truck with a different color. Everyone wants to be “different”. High gloss red.



https://x.com/teslaconomics/status/1765563218330820730?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
600   WookieMan   2024 Mar 7, 4:53am  

Eman says

People, who buy the Cybertruck now, are either social media influencers, or have F U money. Everyone wraps their truck with a different color. Everyone wants to be “different”. High gloss red.

It's not a truck though. It's a glorified mid sized SUV with cramped seating, poor sight lines and no utility as usual with Tesla. It's fine production and deliveries have finally started, but there are few new sales. I've NEVER seen Tesla advertise. Any YouTube video I start has a Tesla ad now. That means new sales are way down on all models.

It's a toy. You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

Teslas are fine cars, but I think they'll be a relic of the past in a decade. It's not a road tripping car, so no one besides a few outliers have high miles on any model. It's a commuter car. I was just out in Montana and didn't see one. You have to drive an hour (at least) to do fun stuff. I saw no charging stations. Full EV's are only practical for homebodies that go to work and do nothing else.
601   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 6:09am  

WookieMan says


You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

I was going to mention the Hummer craze a few days ago. Yep, we saw lots of them and now...where the heck did they all go?

@Eman, that looks like a photoshop. I could be wrong though.
602   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 6:39am  

GNL says

WookieMan says



You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

I was going to mention the Hummer craze a few days ago. Yep, we saw lots of them and now...where the heck did they all go?

Eman, that looks like a photoshop. I could be wrong though.

Check out the link I shared above for a short clip of the wrap from all angles.
603   zzyzzx   2024 Mar 7, 6:45am  

Eman says

Everyone wraps their truck with a different color.


Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting, this is a smart move.
And I love stainless steel, even this cheaper grade is going to hold up way better then not stainless on salted roads.
604   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 6:53am  

zzyzzx says

Eman says


Everyone wraps their truck with a different color.


Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting, this is a smart move.
And I love stainless steel, even this cheaper grade is going to hold up way better then not stainless on salted roads.

Oh god, so much misinformation out there. Wes, the lead Cybertruck engineer already debunked this.

Here’s a video Kim Java recently did on a farmer in Florida. Which appeared like rust, turned out wasn’t.

https://youtu.be/L-gPL7H7XHw?si=RtABQDQCGYXkfgTe
605   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 7:17am  

“You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around.”

Watch, Wookie will change the definition of “a farmer or construction worker” now to make his point.

Do you know why Tesla started to advertise this year and not before Wookie?
606   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 7:21am  

“It's a toy. You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?”

I don’t care how impractical the Cybertruck is, but I’m willing to bet it will outsell the Hummer sales number.

People buy a truck or car for different reasons. Stop imposing your views on others. It’s not about YOU. Just like I don’t see myself ever driving a Yukon XL ever again, and possibly ICE cars.
607   WookieMan   2024 Mar 7, 7:53am  

Eman says

People buy a truck or car for different reasons. Stop imposing your views on others. It’s not about YOU. Just like I don’t see myself ever driving a Yukon XL ever again, and possibly ICE cars.

The reason can be dumb and expensive. Which is what Tesla is. I'd love a Ferrari. I'd never buy one or even take one for free. Frugality is a thing. Doesn't mean you're poor. You're smart. I want life experiences. Driving a car is a chore to get from A to B. It's why the South Park creators call Harley riders fags. They are.

Buy the cheapest, clean looking car you can. For me it's SUV's that beats out anything Tesla puts out. I get you're brand loyal, but it's about UTILITY for a vehicle. They're ugly, fast golf cart... great. I'd rather fit 5-7 people and tow 7,000lbs. To go have a good time and not sit at a charging station for an hour to get 100 miles and have to put people in the trunk.

No model of Tesla is practical for a family of 5. None. Now imagine driving 4-8 clients around? Nope. Most legacy manufactures cars aren't besides mini vans (ewww) or SUV's. Tesla has neither. So I'm not picking on Tesla, I pointing out the massive flaws. Know the battery tech. New sales are going to plummet with market saturation. They already are.

I'd be shorting Tesla stock if I was in that game. Fortunately I don't need to trade stocks. Or buy status cars. I'm living the smart life...
608   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 8:33am  

Their reason for purchase is different with yours. It works for them. They don’t care what you or anyone thinks. They make their own life choice and you make yours.

And….you’re wrong again by saying “You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around.” WRONG AGAIN!
609   HeadSet   2024 Mar 7, 2:16pm  

zzyzzx says

Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting,

Since when does stainless steel rust? I have used it in salt water for years, and I have never seen stainless steel rust. It will dull, but not rust. By the way, if a magnet sticks to it, it is not stainless steel.
610   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 4:30pm  

10 things that make the cyber truck a shitty truck. LMAO, originally was supposed to start at $39,000 but none are selling for less than $100,000. And it was supposed to go 500 miles between charges. At full towing capacity (11,000lbs) you can only go 90 miles.

https://youtu.be/KcVaRlLtBPw?si=CXN9lTi6UUyyOXIn
611   WookieMan   2024 Mar 7, 5:10pm  

GNL says

10 things that make the cyber truck a shitty truck. LMAO, originally was supposed to start at $39,000 but none are selling for less than $100,000. And it was supposed to go 500 miles between charges. At full towing capacity (11,000lbs) you can only go 90 miles.

Eman doesn't get the point. I love my Nissan and my Toyota. I've had a Dodge, multiple Pontiacs, Jeeps, so this isn't my first rodeo. I've driven Tesla. They're not awful cars but they're overpriced golf carts. It would be dangerous as can be, but I can get a golf cart going 45mph and go for 150 miles. That's that range and speed most Tesla drivers need. No utility or space. Most municipalities allow you to drive carts. Around town, fuck, I'll save $50k on a golf cart. Whatever, I'm an idiot.

Tesla owners think this is some advanced tech. I've been driving electric golf carts since my childhood country club days. Instead of lead acid it's lithium. There's nothing new here besides the battery weighing less. You always have been able to power a car with lead acid or some form of electric. It just weighs 2-3k lbs more. It's still electric. This isn't new tech. Someone figured out lithium batteries, not Elon, and he put it in a car. Brilliant. lol So smart. Guess what? I did the same with my golf cart.

It's not about preference in cars. It's about utility. Tesla simply doesn't have it. I also value my time. Not sitting at a charging station for an hour to get 150 miles. About to drive that distance. I can go 400 miles in my big SUV, gas up anywhere, fit all my luggage which might include snowboards. There's not a Tesla I can do that with a family of five. NONE.

It's not about decisions and controlling people. It's about intelligence. I don't buy overpriced cars that don't provide utility. You're driving from A to B. A Tesla provides no utility and is simply a toy someone overpaid for. It's okay, just have to own it is all.
612   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 5:55pm  

The reviewer is questioning if the door opener will be strong enough to open the door when it's ice encrusted. LMAO, you push a button for it to open the doors and then you pull on it. This is adding up to retardation. Sorry Eman.
613   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 6:26pm  

Ok, serious Question: what is the best purpose for the cyber truck? Part of your answer cannot include..."it's so fast".
614   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Mar 8, 12:36pm  







Tesla Motors was founded in 2003 by Mark Tarpenning and Martin Everhard. Elon Musk invested $6.5 million and appointed himself chairman of the board. A few years later he raised $30 million with help from the Google Founders. The investment came with the condition the he be named founder of the company. Then he proceeded to push out the founders, rewrote the history of the company to erase their names, and crowned himself the self-made “genius” behind the EV revolution.


Wow! I confess that I didn't know that one. But fortunately, my handy dandy meme library has just the meme to add here about this:



Eat that, Tesla Fluffers!

Warning: this article totally rips a new asshole in EV fantasists...particularly Tesla Fluffers

https://thegoodcitizen.live/p/evirtue-signaling
615   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 2:02pm  

"What will future generations think of this brief experiment with nudging consumers toward electric vehicles that offered them no discernible benefits in any consumer categories (including “clean energy”) over petrol or hybrid versions at substantially greater economic cost?

If future generations of men ever recover any healthy levels of testosterone what will they say when they learn that Dodge ditched their roaring V8 HEMI engine of pure American muscle for spontaneously combustible batteries?

They’ll probably say what I’ve already said: EVs are spectacularly gay, and gay will never be cool.

In that sense, the Tesla is the perfect representation of the times we’re living.

Gay."
616   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 3:08pm  

GNL says

The reviewer is questioning if the door opener will be strong enough to open the door when it's ice encrusted. LMAO, you push a button for it to open the doors and then you pull on it. This is adding up to retardation. Sorry Eman.

No need to apologize. The model 3 had icing issue with its handles. Tesla solved that so it should be a piece of cake to solve for the Cybertruck too IMO.

Elon is not a fan of car handles. The initial design had retractable handles just like the model S. Not sure what made them get away from that concept.

With respect to it being fast, the instant torque at any speed makes it really fun to drive. It puts a smile on my face every time. If you look at the crash and rollover tests, the Cybertruck outperforms any truck, or SUV out there. Tesla’s tech is top notch just like Apple. Very user friendly. All other brands feel outdated and hard to use once you’ve experienced a Tesla. So many convenient features that many cars don’t have.

The Tesla community has shared construction worker hauling sheetrock with the Cybertruck and farmer hauling hay with theirs too.
617   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 3:10pm  

If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?
618   EBGuy   2024 Mar 8, 3:15pm  

I guess you can always go with a more conventional look...



As a reminder, the Tesla Cybertruck wrapped to look like an F-150 appeared shortly after Ford CEO Jim Farley criticized the Cybertruck for not being a real work truck.
https://insideevs.com/news/681745/tesla-cybertruck-shows-ford-f150-persona-some-more/
619   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Mar 8, 4:24pm  

GNL says

what is the best purpose for the cyber truck?

It's a Status Symbol, bro.

That's the only purpose needed for the buyers.

Sheesh.
622   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:46pm  

Eman says


If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.
623   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:50pm  

Eman says

Interesting take from Edmunds.



https://x.com/edmunds/status/1766132950243164340?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

But Eman, you said all Tesla vehicles were top notch best ever. How can that be?
624   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:51pm  

Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?
625   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:14pm  

This is only one person’s opinion from a country that doesn’t have Tesla…yet.



https://x.com/buyandholdbr/status/1766258238490579148?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
626   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:18pm  

GNL says

Eman says



If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.

I’m not an insider so I don't know if they’re doing it voluntarily, or not. I think they have to meet some EPA mpg standard, and this is one way of achieving it. However, I believe they can also buy the credit and don't have to make EVs. They have options. Why do they choose to manufacture EVs? 🤷‍♂️
627   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:24pm  

GNL says

Eman says


Interesting take from Edmunds.



https://x.com/edmunds/status/1766132950243164340?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

But Eman, you said all Tesla vehicles were top notch best ever. How can that be?

Everyone’s standard is different. I love my car. It’s the best one I’ve ever owned. After 6.5 years, I still love it. It’s always clean. My wife feels the same way about her Tesla, and I always keep her car clean too.

With the recent reviews on the new model 3 and the Cybertruck, they make me want to buy one of each. However, I’m waiting until our 2023 taxes are done to see how we fare in our tax liabilities before I buy another Tesla. Then see how our 2024 taxes fare before I buy another Tesla in 2025.
628   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:26pm  

GNL says

Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?

I have no idea. I’ve never been a farmer. I provided the link to the YouTube video above. Maybe post your questions in the comment section, and Kim Java can help you get them answered by “the real farmer”?
629   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:29pm  

GNL says

Eman says



If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.

This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times
630   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 9:57pm  

Eman says

This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

But you ran away from your country. Does that make you hard, weak or strong?
631   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 10:09pm  

GNL says

Eman says


This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

But you ran away from your country. Does that make you hard, weak or strong?

I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.
632   GNL   2024 Mar 9, 3:49am  

Eman says

I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.


That's too bad because you missed the parts where Hard times create strong men and
Strong men create good times in Vietnam.
633   Eman   2024 Mar 9, 6:12am  

GNL says

Eman says


I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.


That's too bad because you missed the parts where Hard times create strong men and
Strong men create good times in Vietnam.

We’re only on this earth for a short time. We don’t get to choose which time frame it is. I try to make my stay during my time as enjoyable as possible and help my siblings and acquaintances along the way. Life is a journey be it strong or weak. So far, it’s been great. If there’s next life, I want to be my dad’s son again and marry to my wife again.

I love my family. I love my wife’s family. My dad said I did well marrying my wife and into a very nice family. 100% agreed.
634   socal2   2024 Mar 9, 9:28am  

Eman says

GNL says


Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?

I have no idea. I’ve never been a farmer. I provided the link to the YouTube video above. Maybe post your questions in the comment section, and Kim Java can help you get them answered by “the real farmer”?


Absolutely it can. It is perfect for localized farm work. Same thing for heavy construction, landscaping, local deliveries and majority jobs that don't require daily long hauls.

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