patrick.net

Onvacation says

Gold and silver will approach infinity as the dollar goes to zero .

That would also be true for a barrel of oil.

Onvacation says

Them and all the people that believe money is created by government and not labor.

Money IS created by government. It is WEALTH that is created by labor. In this era of fiat currency, trading with gold and silver is essentially barter, and just as uncommon a means of transaction.

stereotomy says

creditors can seize your shares as collateral

Government can just seize any of your shares at any time for political reasons and you have no recourse.

This happened to me with my YNDX and SBER shares, Russian stocks. Government just "put them in escrow" one day years ago, effectively expropriating them from me without compensation. Schwab says I can't do jack shit about it.

Years ago, I owned shares in Petro China, and some old Chinese guy I met warned me that the CCP could simply take them at any time. Well, turns out the CCP did not do that, but the US government did.

Onvacation says

One day one Bitcoin will buy one beanie baby.

As soon as quantum computing is ready, or when someone is just clever enough to come up with an algorithm which directly produces the "salt" necessary to get the SHA-256 hash to end up with a certain number of 0's, it's over. That person will be able to take all the Bitcoin.

The whole thing depends on "proof of work" but the guy who figures out how to avoid that work will get very rich at the expense of other holders.

HeadSet says

Money IS created by government.

Money? Or Currency?

My silver bitcoin will still be valuable long after our fiat currency fails and the last bitcoin is "mined".

Glock-n-Load says

stereotomy says

GNL says

stereotomy says

hey changed the law 20 years or more ago. If they can't deliver, they can just give you fiat cash.

Can you show me this law please?

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-I/part-190/subpart-B/section-190.06

Thanks, I’ll take a look.

Just thinking out loud here but, how does this affect silver prices? It seems as though they never have to deliver. A shortage isn’t the problem?

As it turns out, the change to allow PM futures contracts to be settled in cash was done by TPTB to save the counterparties on the hook for the Hunt Brothers' attempt to corner the silver market back in the late 1970's. There's some discussion of this on Financology.net:

https://financology.net/2025/12/17/outlook-2026/#comment-8314

Onvacation says

My silver bitcoin will still be valuable long after our fiat currency fails and the last bitcoin is "mined".

If the US Dollar fails, that silver bitcoin will be the same as bullets, canned food, or cigarettes - something to barter with whoever will accept it.

HeadSet says

Onvacation says

Gold and silver will approach infinity as the dollar goes to zero .

That would also be true for a barrel of oil.

Same with real estate.

The value of the loans outstanding also go to Zip.

HeadSet says

If the US Dollar fails, that silver bitcoin will be the same as bullets, canned food, or cigarettes - something to barter with whoever will accept it.

In cannibal anarchy, liquor, cigarettes and bullets will be MUCH more valuable than bitcoins, gold, or silver.

Onvacation says

When MAGA fails we’re headed for communism (Rebranded as democratic socialism) or cannibal anarchy.

Fixed it for you.

stereotomy says

They changed the law 20 years or more ago. If they can't deliver, they can just give you fiat cash.

I was hoping that you assumed that I already knew that...My point was, if you are an industrial user and you need tons of silver on a regular basis, where do you get it? Wasn't the commodities market the place to go? You could buy futures contacts and take delivery. Now if all they will give you when the contract expires is paper, then what is the point? I think we both know the answer to that...It's just a rigged gambling game involving paper. It has nothing to do with real precious metals.
The problem is that the coin dealers want buy at that low fake price...As long as sellers refuse to sell at that rip off price, no harm done.

komputodo says

stereotomy says

They changed the law 20 years or more ago. If they can't deliver, they can just give you fiat cash.

I was hoping that you assumed that I already knew that...My point was, if you are an industrial user and you need tons of silver on a regular basis, where do you get it? Wasn't the commodities market the place to go? You could buy futures contacts and take delivery. Now if all they will give you when the contract expires is paper, then what is the point? I think we both know the answer to that...It's just a rigged gambling game involving paper. It has nothing to do with real precious metals.
The problem is that the coin dealers want buy at that low fake price...As long as sellers refuse to sell at that rip off price, no harm done.

I agree - the whole futures market has become completely corrupted by TBTF bankster speculators, defeating the purpose for these markets to exist in the first place. Futures markets were set up to protect commodity producers and industrial users from wild swings in prices and were regulated to only permit certain business entities from engaging in trading operations. Once non-industrial banks and hedge funds were let in, everything went to shit.

Gold and silver new record high, silver passes 90$.

RC2006 says

silver passes 90$.

Some people are predicting $300 per ounce. That seems unreasonably high.

I'm pretty sure that the gold and silver price rising is just a sign of the dollar falling.

Back in the day, EJ from iTulip thought $5000 - 10,000 would be the peak for gold in $. Afterwards, a new currency or something post Bretton Woods / Petrodollar.

Onvacation says

RC2006 says

silver passes 90$.

Some people are predicting $300 per ounce. That seems unreasonably high.

I'm pretty sure that the gold and silver price rising is just a sign of the dollar falling.

This is exactly what scares me. I think it's going to go up a lot more, because we are borrowing money to pay the debt, inflationary. That's not a financial territory any empire, that I know of, recovered from. Markets that are propped by inflation, and being fiscally responsible to fix it, makes one an enemy. It's scary man, I don't know what our kids will have to live through.

Silver price can and have been manipulated in the past but gold is another story its pretty much a currency onto itself. Both going up this fast isnt a manipulation its currency depreciation but of the flip side at least all currencies seem to be going the same direction to gold.

Gold is going up because there are too many central banks buying way too much bullion for the Fed and its conspirators in the commodities markets to counter, especially when the Fed also has to buy trillions in bad loans for QE infinity; i.e., they've run out of pilots for the helicopters.

Silver closes above $90 for the long holiday weekend.



It's exciting to see what will happen Tuesday morning; the curse of living in interesting times.

Has silver found its new level? It's no longer a monetary metal and its main uses are industrial and investment. Has silver become so essential and precious that one ounce is worth more than a barrel of oil?

What is the price of a barrel of oil today?
WTI Crude 61.19 +2.84%
Brent Crude 65.57 +2.66%
Murban Crude 65.31 +2.24%