patrick.net

Patrick says

The attack seems quite deliberately provoked to me.

How exactly was it "provoked"? By showing extereme weakness in Afghanistan, supressing oil/gas production in US, lifting sanctions on NS2 and generally looking weak and senile?

No, seriously, what has changed compared to, say, Jan 20, 2021, except the things listed above?

If a mountain lion pounces when you bend down to tie your shoe, does it mean you provoked the fucking cat or it simply took the opportunity? Words have meanings.

The provocation is NATO's refusal to bar Ukraine from joining.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html?source=patrick.net

You might say that Ukraine has the right to join NATO, but then you'd also have to say that the Soviets had the right to put missiles in Cuba.

I also get the impression that the US was deliberately encouraging Ukraine's NATO aspirations to precipitate this very crisis, but I'm not certain about that.

I agree that there is some opportunism here, because Biden is clearly incompetent, and the US military has been demoralized by gay ships, a trans admiral, wokeness, and forced experimental injections.

Patrick says

The provocation is NATO's refusal to bar Ukraine from joining.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html?source=patrick.net

You might say that Ukraine has the right to join NATO, but then you'd also have to say that the Soviets had the right to put missiles in Cuba.

I also get the impression that the US was deliberately encouraging Ukraine's NATO aspirations to precipitate this very crisis, but I'm not certain about that.

The even bigger provocation was the forced regime change followed by installation of puppet govt.

Bd6r says

Why did Bidet take off US sanctions from Nordstream 2?

Show us a document that he did. You know as well as I do that public statements by officials are just bullshit.

Remember when all government contractors were required to get vaccinated? I didn't. I was kind of hoping to get fired. Oh well.

Patrick says

I also get the impression that the US was deliberately encouraging Ukraine's NATO aspirations to precipitate this very crisis, but I'm not certain about that.

They seemed to do this is Georgia. Mikheil Saakashvili was the president then. He received his higher education at

National University of Kyiv
Columbia University
George Washington University
International Institute of Human Rights

So, that makes me think US puppet.

He has quite a lengthy criminal record as well.

Patrick says

US military has been demoralized by gay ships, a trans admiral,

Who was the Trans Admiral? Are your referring to Lavine? That person is a Public Health Service "Admiral," not in the Navy.

Mr. Lavine is an admiral in any case:

https://news.yahoo.com/dr-rachel-levine-now-first-142436504.html?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

Show us a document that he did.

Show us an original of a document that it was US, and not aliens that invaded Iraq

Patrick says

The provocation is NATO's refusal to bar Ukraine from joining.

Inaction is a provocation now? Wow. How far are we willing to extend this principle?

How 'bout this scenario (purely hypothetical):

"Hey, Pat, I demand you surrender your newly acquired shotgun to San Mateo Sheriff's office by midnight tonight or I consider myself provoked and will take a kinetic action to punish you. My reasons? I feelz threatened by your deadly weapon. Yes, I do have 4 rifles, 3 pistols, body armor and a crossbow myself, but still - I DON"T FEEL SAFE AROUND YOU as long as you have that damn shotty. No, you've never said you're going to attack me, but feelz are feelz!"

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Show us a document that he did.

Show us an original of a document that it was US, and not aliens that invaded Iraq

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB328/II-Doc14.pdf?source=patrick.net

That's the Downing Street Memos.

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

I do my fucking homework believe it or not.

I'm getting sloppier in my old age, because after you've done this for a year or two, you realize that the government lies about every fucking thing, and the real surprise is when they don't. THAT is worth documenting because it's so goddamned rare, I've never had occasion to do it.

Nobody seems to give a fuck when the government is caught RED HANDED lying to 330 million people to start a war.

You want to make a claim, that's fine, but you should verify your claim. You can be brainwashed, I can be brainwashed, anybody can be brainwashed, and anybody that doesn't realize that they can be tricked, misguided, and lied to are the worst of the brainwashed people.

I don't believe Biden lifted sanctions on the Nordstream II. In fact, how would Biden enforce sanctions on the Nordstream II anyhow? We are fed a CONSTANT stream of bullshit.

Oh yes, if you want to continue with this silliness - this is the Authorization To Use Force In Iraq.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-joint-resolution/114/text

You can even see how our assholes voted.

Eric Holder says

"Hey, Pat, I demand you surrender your newly acquired shotgun to San Mateo Sheriff's office by midnight tonight or I consider myself provoked and will take a kinetic action to punish you. My reasons? I feelz threatened by your deadly weapon. Yes, I do have 4 rifles, 3 pistols, body armor and a crossbow myself, but still - I DON"T FEEL SAFE AROUND YOU as long as you have that damn shotty. No, you've never said you're going to attack me, but feelz are feelz!"

Now do the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Eric Holder says

Patrick says

The provocation is NATO's refusal to bar Ukraine from joining.

Inaction is a provocation now? Wow. How far are we willing to extend this principle?

How 'bout this scenario (purely hypothetical):

"Hey, Pat, I demand you surrender your newly acquired shotgun to San Mateo Sheriff's office by midnight tonight or I consider myself provoked and will take a kinetic action to punish you. My reasons? I feelz threatened by your deadly weapon. Yes, I do have 4 rifles, 3 pistols, body armor and a crossbow myself, but still - I DON"T FEEL SAFE AROUND YOU as long as you have that damn shotty. No, you've never said you're going to attack me, but feelz are feelz!"

It's more like if Patrick is hosting a violent and armed felon who has threatened to rape your wife multiple times, and the courts refuse to grant her a restraining order and you're demanding that Patrick kick out the felon but he won't because Patrick is involved with a money laundering scheme with the felon, and you finally got fed up with this bullshit, and got a bunch of thugs to go over to Patrick's place to kick the felon out.

The United States has attacked 7 nations in the last 20 years. I bet you can't even name them without looking them up. I bet you don't even know what the excuse was to bomb them. The US is the rogue nation. What was the mission in Afghanistan? What was the end goal of that war? It was just war, it was profitable for some offense companies, and I bet the CIA made a lot of extra black money running opium.

China and Russia thank Biden for $87B of military equipment. Anybody who believes the talking point that they were sabotaged missed the feckless evacuation from Kabul, which was mostly the fault of the State Department not reaching any basic decisions prior to the Taliban takeover.

The SAME State Department that is responsible for the Ukraine Crisis.

Does that mean that Putin and his buddies can now pick it up for pennies on the dollar? Like Blackrock and real estate.

Bd6r says

Why did Bidet take off US sanctions from Nordstream 2?

Cmon man....Biden doesn't even know what a sanction is...He barely knows the name of his wife.

richwicks says

It's more like if Patrick is hosting a violent and armed felon who has threatened to rape your wife multiple times

I'll play. Please provide proof that US threatened to attack Russia and rape Putin at any moment since Reagan's famous "I've ordered bombing of the USSR" joke.

The rape of Putin part is a joke, of course, but the part about attacking Russia is serious. So, when did US threatened to attack Russia anytime since 1991?

richwicks says

That's the Downing Street Memos.

Does not prove they attacked.

Eric Holder says

The rape of Putin part is a joke, of course, but the part about attacking Russia is serious. So, when did US threatened to attack Russia anytime since 1991?

The US isn't threatening to attack Russia - they are attacking Russia.

The overthrow of Ukraine in 2014 was an attack - that blocked the Nordstream II. The sanctions on them are an attack. The constant propaganda is an attack - for example, framing Russia for the Skripal's. Cutting Russia off from the SWIFT system is an attack. Trying to remove Russia's base in Tartus is an attack. Trying to remove Russia's military installation in Crimea is an attack.

The US keeps escalating tensions. They do this with every country they are looking to go militarily against.

richwicks says

The US isn't threatening to attack Russia - they are attacking Russia.

The overthrow of Ukraine in 2014 in was an attack - that blocked the Nordstream II.

The agreement to build Nordstream II was signed in 2015. That's some time travel shit right there!

richwicks says

The sanctions on them are an attack.

Economic retaliation for military attack.

richwicks says

The constant propaganda is an attack - for example, framing Russia for the Skripal's.

These are just words. Battle ideas with ideas. Which they do. The list of things they accuse the US of is longer then your leg.

richwicks says

Cutting Russia off from t he SWIFT system is an attack.

It's a retaliation for starting an illegal, immoral and unjustified war.

richwicks says

Trying to remove Russia's base in Tartus is an attack.

When did this famous naval battle take place?

richwicks says

Trying to remove Russia's military installation in Crime is an attack.

When did this famous amphibious assault operation take place?

To recoup: the "attack on Russia" consists of some time travel shit, some mean words, and some imaginary naval battle and imaginary amphibious assault operation. And then there are sanctions which happened after Russia "retaliated" to them (another time travel trickery).

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

The US isn't threatening to attack Russia - they are attacking Russia.

The overthrow of Ukraine in 2014 in was an attack - that blocked the Nordstream II.

The agreement to build Nordstream II was signed in 2015. That's some time travel shit right there!

Russia always went through Ukraine for pipelines, it's logical to assume the Nordstream II would have been going through there. They just rerouted through the Black Sea.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Trying to remove Russia's military installation in Crimeais an attack.

When did this famous amphibious assault operation take place?

I have told you this MANY MANY TIMES - Ukraine didn't have a revolution it was a CIA coup. Coups happen for MULTIPLE reasons, ONE of the goals of the US was to deprive Russia of their military installation in Crimea. Russia isn't going to give that up any more than the US would give up Guantanamo in Cuba.

Pretending that the United States isn't fucking overjoyed with what is going on it just naive or stupid. The US wants to restart the Cold War. Instead of working with Russia, they fucking antagonize them constantly and they've been doing this for 20 fucking years. If you're unaware of this, and you're not gong to be an obstinate asshole that is going to forget everything I write, I'll explain it to you, but I think it would be common knowledge now.

I get tired of people feigning ignorance though, and I think you do that an awful lot.

personal

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Russia always went through Ukraine for pipelines, it's logical to assume the Nordstream II would have been going through there. They just rerouted through the Black Sea.

Dude, are you for real? Black Sea?

Oops, my error. As an engineer, I was never good with names.

Eric Holder says

I officially declare you an ignorant clown

Look, I don't care if insult me. I'm annoyed you don't say anything of substance and you seem to actively avoid it. Anybody trying to have a conversation among other people I think would be. You engage in childish behavior, but it's your right to do so.

Your daily reminder than Nordstream1 is pumping gas like crazy into Germany, as well as Netherlands.

One interesting point of disagreement between long time buddies Poland and Hungary? Orban gets along well with Putin and has resisted sanctions at the EU.

But Magyars aren't Slav, so there's no Hungarian Intra-slav animosity like Poland and Russia.

personal

mostly reader says

richwicks says

As an engineer, I was never good with names.

As an engineer, I object to a clown projecting his dementia on other engineers.

Like I said feel free to insult me. I can't be insulted by somebody I neither know nor respect.

personal

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Like I said feel free to insult me.

You didn't say it to me. Not in this thread. You may think that you did, but that would be that dementia again (no, it's not common to all engineers)

Good to know though.

None of what you wrote makes sense to me.

I have repeatedly said I think Crocker's Rules are a good set of rules and why it's a good set of rules.

Insults are pointless. I don't know you, or him - why would anybody past 20 try to get an emotional rise out of people on the Internet, and what does it have to do with communication? Nothing. It's childish.

I asked you a question here:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1343867?offset=0#comment-1822734

That was "Here's a question - if you know better than any body else here what is going on currently in Ukraine, why do you simply insult them and attempt to anger them, rather than correct them?"

And the question still stands. What is the point of acting like a child? If people are wrong, point out they are wrong, and if you have knowledge that other people don't have, why don't you share it?

richwicks says

That was "Here's a question - if you know better than any body else here what is going on currently in Ukraine, why do you simply insult them and attempt to anger them, rather than correct them?"

I thought that the answer is rhetorical and the answer(s) is/are self-evident. If you must insist:

1. I actually don't know better than "any body else". There are others on this board who are just as informed and a lot more patient than I am.

2. It's not "any body else" that I insult. It's a small number of characters, and to most of them I give benefit of the doubt. I'd say that you are the only one on this board to who I no longer give benefit of the doubt. Because you time after time demonstrated to me that you are something other than an honest actor.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

That's the Downing Street Memos.

Does not prove they attacked.

I think the Authorization to Use Force does.

I'm just sick and tired of people making claims of something that supposedly happened, that didn't. Biden release sanctions? What were the sanctions? Just what precisely changed?

No matter WHAT Russia does, there will be sanctions. The US is doing to Russia what they did to Iraq, to Syria, to Libya - it's just endless demands then they move the goal posts. People here know damned well at this point our news media is just propaganda. Biden "made vaccinations required for government contractors" - remember that? That didn't happen.

Government is full of shit, anything they say is pointless. All that matters at this point are documents.

richwicks says

I think the Authorization to Use Force does.

Nope, that just proves that attack was authorized, which does not necessarily means they invaded.

My recollection is that Merrick or whatever the clown under Biden is froze the Nordstream sanctions because "situation has changed" or more precisely because sanctions were introduced by Orange Man Bad.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I think the Authorization to Use Force does.

Nope, that just proves that attack was authorized, which does not necessarily means they invaded.

Here, let's change tact.

Biden just said in his state of the Union Address that he's going to increase funding for the police, increase US border protection, and bring back manufacturing to the United States.

Do you believe him?

So if Biden (or our media) says that he removed sanctions on Russia - why do you believe him? Do you believe it actually happened?

I don't. That's a perfectly reasonable position for me to take.

richwicks says

Like I said feel free to insult me.

I'm offended though, because personal insults just prevent real discussion.

I'm going to mark some of the insults as personal, personally.

richwicks says

Here, let's change tact.

Biden just said in his state of the Union Address that he's going to increase funding for the police, increase US border protection, and bring back manufacturing to the United States.

Do you believe him?

So if Biden (or our media) says that he removed sanctions on Russia - why do you believe him? Do you believe it actually happened?

I don't. That's a perfectly reasonable position for me to take.

Bush said he invaded Iraq. We should not believe that also, according to above logic. Reasonable?

Bd6r says

Bush said he invaded Iraq. We should not believe that also, according to above logic. Reasonable?

Again, how did Biden raise sanctions on the Nordstream II project? What evidence is there other than empty words?

Nobody has any fucking idea, you know why I think that is?

Because he didn't.

Now, why does anybody think he did? I'm just asking for reasonable evidence, in fact, any evidence.

I'm tired of people repeating stupid empty talking points shit into their neck hole because they don't really seem to exhibit having a brain. Our government and media is incessant in propaganda. The "pandemic" disappeared, because there is now a new distraction. If you haven't noticed, we always have to have some dumb fucking distraction and then a bunch of people argue about the distraction.