patrick.net

I actually think I am under-reacting to the danger of mass deaths caused by the shot.

If we don't see mass deaths, injuries, or sterility in a few years, I'll reconsider.

Hell, I think pretty much everyone is under-reacting to this immense danger.

Zak says

I believe over 500,000 people have died from Covid. but possibly as low as 400,000 or as high as 600,00-700,000 .

I believe these numbers are suspect for the following reasons: (1) there was nearly no flu reported last year, so it is very likely that at least some of flu deaths/illnesses were attributed to covid, and (2) average age of Italians dying from covid was 81 last year, but average age of Italians dying from all causes were 80. This is difficult to explain assuming that there is nothing wrong with statistics (as in attaching covid deaths to other causes of death).

These types of difficulties with statistics is the reason why I am at this point open to either possibility with vaccines. If I'd trust gubbermint statistics, i'd trust vaccines. I don't trust govt stats (they have been lying too much) so I have a mildly negative attitude towards these vaccines.

Patrick says

I actually think I am under-reacting to the danger of mass deaths caused by the shot.

I keep trying to ask this, but what is it about the shot that you think is MORE dangerous than Covid? (i.e. preservatives, difference you've seen in death stats, mRNA jab in your system vs virus DNA) . I 100% understand not trusting "the official story". Which means go to thinking for yourself. But that's what I am asking.. what is the evidence that you are using for the thinking for yourself part that is showing you the danger of the jab being higher than the virus?

Edit:

I am NOT saying there is no danger for the jab. I am asking, GIVEN that there IS danger from the jab, what is the evidence you see that this danger is GREATER than the danger the virus is causing?

The first thing is that I now know someone I'm pretty sure died from the shot, but don't know anyone who died from the disease.

Just one data point, but death is a big data point.

If I start hearing of more vaxxed people I know suddenly dying, I'll be more certain.

Zak says

This leads me to believe that the vaccine is about 10-100 times as safe to get as getting covid.

That's it. Its not totally safe.. it just seems safer than getting covid.

This may be true, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence at all, that it protects people from getting "covid".

If it gives people immunity, why would the vaccinated care if other people are vaccinated or not?

So, maybe you are far less likely to die from the "vaccine", but it's not a vaccine and doesn't confer immunity. If it doesn't confer immunity, why the fuck would I want to get an injection that, at BEST, does nothing and at worst, injures and even possibly kills me?

I see absolutely no indication these vaccines are effective. They aren't 90% effective for certain. There's some claims they are 40% effective, but if I try to discuss this on a normie website, I fucking get censored. The fact I get censored, raises 10 red flags alone. That fact our government is THREATENING people to force them to get it raises 20 red flags. Since when did this fucking government give two shits about the health and safety of the public? They let Antifa and BLM burn loot and murder all over the nation for 9 fucking months.

If the vaccine was effective, they'd have the Federal Reserve print up a trillion dollars, give it to the vaccine manufacturer to keep the cure secret, and take it themselves, and keep it from the public.

Do you know NOBODY in Congress had any side effects from taking the vaccine? That's because none of them took the vaccine. There's more than 500 people in congress, and not ONE of them had any problems. Well, my neighbor got it, she had diarrhea and muscle pain for 3 weeks. Bitcoin says he's having some issues as a result. Jimmy Dore had problems for more than a month. Another radio show host named Michael Rivero said he had side effects for several days. Hank Aaron is dead, Eric Claptop worried he'd never be able to play again.

But NOBODY in Congress had any issue. They didn't take it.

Name a single celebrity (of any sort, that includes politicians) that have died of this disease? Any entertainer die of sars-cov2-19? Any US politicians? Any athlete? Yet, supposedly, we have a pandemic. Well, I doubt it. Sure plenty of people CLAIM to have become sick from it, but they are actors. Tom Hanks claimed to be ill, I doubt he was. He was just playing a part for a few days. Our biggest propagandists, are actors. Got a step down, those are "news anchors". Chris Cuomo claimed to have had it and said he was going to sequester himself in quarantine in his basement, but he was caught outside by a biker in the Hamptons which was during the time he was supposedly in quarantine.

We can, and have, seen people lie about having this disease, repeatedly.

HeadSet says

falsely associates those injections with proven real vaccines of the past like vaccines for polio, measles, and mumps.

Actually, I take issue with proven. Testing without a control means baselining is done by big pharma reps overseeing the study.

Patrick says

Just one data point, but death is a big data point.

So for those of us who do know people who have died of Covid, but not of the shot, do you think that we would have a different, and likely opposite viewpoint that isn't propaganda?

And to see if we are all acting logically, we should try to look at wider numbers to see what is statistically a better choice?

richwicks says

but there doesn't seem to be any evidence at all, that it protects people from getting "covid".

Instead of beating down this number or that, I simply asked that you put up what you think people are dying from, and in what numbers. If you don't put up the numbers you believe, then how can you make an informed decision?

If you are saying that people with the shot are still getting covid.. what number of people do you think this is ? (I don't think it's happening, I KNOWit's happening, and have seen reported cases.. I just see a very low number here)

Rather than attacking the premise. I am asking you all to simply put up the numbers you believe. Please feel free to put up your reasons why or sources.

We can talk about anecdotes all over the place and that is useless. What is your belief on how many people are dying in group a vs group b?

Zak says

This leads me to believe that the vaccine is about 10-100 times as safe to get as getting covid.

That's it. Its not totally safe.. it just seems safer than getting covid.

I think you're leaving out something very important. You say you believe it's safer than getting Covid for those over 50, correct? You have to separate into yet another category(s). Is it safer for healthy 50 year olds with no comorbidities? How about 50 year olds that had HCQ or ivermectin given to them? Do not forget there are prophylaxis available making the while jab requirement total bullshit. Hell, they're even trying to say natural immunity isn't as good as the jab. When does this nonsense end? The lies and turning science back by over 100 years and all? You're being gaslit.

Taking a page from SumatraBosch: since nearly everyone dying from covid has co-morbidities, with the most common being overweight, how about Biden screaming from TV every day 24/7: YOU UGLY FAT DISGUSTING PIG! GET FIT OR YOU WILL DIE FROM COVID AND I WILL RAPE YOUR DECOMPOSING SKULL!

This may be more efficient than DEATH! JAB!

And finally, the reason I am asking you this is not to DISPROVE you ! If you have better information than me, then I will update my actions! You guys seem very sure about your analysis of this situation. Great! If you have a safer path, show me the numbers you think are dying of Covid vs the shot.

If you say zero are dying of Covid, then I will ignore you as I do personally know people dead from Covid. I don't personally know anyone dead from the shot, but I sympathize with Patrick who does know someone likely dead from the shot, and it would be insulting for me to say no one is dying from the shot.

As we have no "over lording" power over people to take or not-take jab.. why censorship?
Just tell how you feel. I personally don't think "jab" is death sentence but also likely to have long term effects.
... How do I know? Just by hearing both sides of the story as have no formal education in medicine or pharmaceuticals.

Bd6r says

I believe these numbers are suspect for the following reasons

I appreciate that you think these numbers are incorrect. What numbers do you think are correct, and why?
I thought 400k on the low side to account for some of this regular flu stuff possibly incorrectly reported as covid.
To me this is still 10x greater than the potentially 45k high side number of shot deaths.

This is how I look at things. What is the data. If the data appears fudged, how can I best estimate that data on my own. If I just say I don't know, i don't know in trying to quantify anything, then we are just in useless land, and wasting our breath.

Zak says

How many deaths do you believe have been caused by the jab?

How many deaths do you believe have been caused by Covid?

I actually don't believe death is the biggest threat here. I'm much more concerned about potentially irreparable DNA damage to the reproductive and hormone functions, especially in pre-pubecent children. My next biggest concern is auto-immune disease, with death coming in third.

I watched a presentation months back about common beliefs regarding DNA, and research that seems to contradict that. The still commonly held assumption is that 99% of our DNA is inactive "junk", and we don't know what process controls what a cell becomes. These seem like pretty fucking huge knowledge gaps I would want addressed before mucking with someone's DNA. There is research out there since the 50's and maybe earlier that proposes communication is light based, and in that scenario, we do know what controls cell designation, and see most DNA as active. But this is still not the popular belief in the field. And I have to assume the giant knowledge gap beliefs guided these shots(if I'm going to be very altruistic in regards to big pharma).

I don't trust western medicine because it only teaches treatment. I don't trust pharmaceutical companies, because they only profit if I'm sick. I don't trust government, because all governments have a long history of wanting to control people.

But if you want to focus on death, consider it's accepted that VAERS under-reports traditionally at about 11% of actual cases. And out of that 11% only about 11% of reports are entered into the system. And with the deluge(for VAERS) of reports being filed, it's likely we do not have even that low threshold.

On the covid side, consider that CDC just announced the test they were using can't differentiate between covid and the flu. Consider that we had a RECORD low flu season in 2020. Consider that shortly after Biden became president, CDC admitted what all labs already knew, that PCR cycles above 35(30 for good labs), are invalid, and changed the number of cycles for the invalid test. Consider the financial incentive to report a death as Covid, as well as the leaked memo's from health organizations directing doctors to mark anyone who died with Covid as dying from covid. And consider how many people you know personally who died from covid.

Nobody can say they know of somebody dead of Covid because the testing is bogus and never distinguished between Covid (which nobody can culture) and the various influenzas and viruses floating around. Again, cause of death cannot be ascertained without a full autopsy and reliable analytic tools, not just a nose swab and a fake test.

I don't know of anybody who claims they had Covid either fake or real. I have heard of six suspicious deaths and several people severely sick from the vaccine. My hairdresser got very ill, and she says she never got flu or colds. Her short term memory is defective since she got the jab.

Zak says

then we are just in useless land, and wasting our breath.

That is, unfortunately, my feeling about this discussion. I don't know how to come by honest numbers. Excess death rates compared to previous years might help, but those have to be normalized for no cancer screenings (=excess cancer deaths), suicides, etc. I don't know enough to do this myself.

Zak says

This leads me to believe that the vaccine is about 10-100 times as safe to get as getting covid.

You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported. Longer term risks are completely unknown. Also you are looking at the danger of Covid as it has been delt with so far by the medical profiteers, i.e. with NO organized early home treatments. The advocates for the early interventions, the I-MASK+ protocol from FLCCC for example, claim they could have saved 90% of the people that have died.
So one approach is to avoid the unknown risks of the novel “vaccine” which is manufactured by ongoing criminal enterprises and promoted by untrustworthy, power-mongering, government and media, and get you a little stash of ‘mectin.

It is a very good lesson for navigating this new Boring Dystopia:
TRUST NO ONE, BE PREPARED TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF

Zak says

Also, 500,000 people out of 300 million is 1 in 600, or less that .5% . So yes, I believe there is a 99.5% chance that if you don't get vaccinated you wont die.
I also think there is a 99.95% chance that if you get the vaccine you wont die.

You literally just gave the reason not to get vaccinated. You have to actually get covid in the first place which is a low probability. What's that percentage? Then what's the percentage from there that you'll die. It's a flu. Being healthy and slightly overweight or less and you'll be totally fine.

If you're old and have other ailments, I'd say go get it. There's a 0% chance I'll die from the vaccine if I don't take it. I'll take those odds. There's less than a 0.01% chance someone my age will die getting covid. I'll take those odds as well.

There's no valid argument to get vaccinated for a massive percentage of the population.

Ceffer says

Nobody can say they know of somebody dead of Covid because the testing is bogus

According to your logic you can't say that you heard of somebody who died of the shot because we don't have a test and the test is bogus. Your own post contradicts itself on what your conclusions are.

As a site that asks people to think and use logic, I ask that you do that here.

Zak says

richwicks says

but there doesn't seem to be any evidence at all, that it protects people from getting "covid".

Instead of beating down this number or that, I simply asked that you put up what you think people are dying from, and in what numbers. If you don't put up the numbers you believe, then how can you make an informed decision?

I can't give you numbers because everything is now suspect. The goddamned CDC is lying to us, so does the WHO. I'm used to living in this world now, it's been this way for decades. Look around you, talk to people. I see lots of people getting ill from the vaccines, but I don't know anybody that has died from the disease. This is anecdotal evidence, which although entirely imperfect, is far better than what we get from "official source". I knew this was going to happen when Bush Jr. lied us into a fucking war. Data is shaped around the conclusion now, and has been for at least 2 decades.

Zak says

If you are saying that people with the shot are still getting covid.. what number of people do you think this is ? (I don't think it's happening, I KNOWit's happening, and have seen reported cases.. I just see a very low number here)

What I'm anecdotally hearing is that the nations with the largest numbers of vaccine recipients have the greatest percentage of people getting sars-cov2-19.

Is this bullshit? Could be! I don't know. I'll know in several months. I'm used to waiting to find out if I'm right or wrong - for example:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1335674/2020-10-20-we-will-never-go-back-to-normal

I wrote that on October 20th. We're never going back to normal. This "pandemic" is cover for something. I suspect economic reset, but engh, I don't know. I'll find out in time, but it's not about a disease.

WookieMan says

You literally just gave the reason not to get vaccinated. You have to actually get covid in the first place which is a low probability.

Wookie.. I posted the numbers as an example.. post what numbers you believe. Why do you refuse to post the numbers you believe?

How many people do you think got covid? How many people got vaxxed?
Obviously less than the full 300 million people in the USA got covid, so this means the death rate is HIGHER than the .5% above.

Instead of trying to find a detail to quibble over, just post what YOU think the numbers are.

WookieMan says

You have to actually get covid in the first place which is a low probability.

This is a very difficult number to ferret out but I recently heard from a good source that with the current levels of community spread it is roughly a 1% chance.
WookieMan says

Then what's the percentage from there that you'll die

As far as I can make out it remains around 1 in 400 for the noninstitutionalized population.

Those are some long fucking odds.

Bd6r says

That is, unfortunately, my feeling about this discussion.

This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?

"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.

Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????

Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???

If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?

There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?

Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???

I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number in your head that you think is a fair estimate.
But in engineering, that is how we solve problems, not bicker uselessly.
So if you disagree, fine.. put up your numbers, and we can talk about it.

That's the other thing.. there are always differences of opinion, methodology, etc. When we disagree, it is an opportunity to progress and refine, not an opportunity to beat someone else and show how they are stupid. We are all stupid. The goal is to try to improve our situation and understanding together.

Robert Sproul says

This is a very difficult number to ferret out but I recently heard from a good source that with the current levels of community spread it is roughly a 1% chance.

Ok good. a number. at a 1% chance of spread, for 300 million people in the US, this would mean 3 million infected with Covid correct?
Do you agree or disagree with the 500k dead from covid?

If you agree, and think 500k people have died out of 3 million infected, then you would be saying there is a 1 in 6 chance of dying if you catch Covid.
That's russian roulette odds.

If you think the number infected is LOWER than 1% then you are saying the chance of death is even HIGHER.

This therefore seems incongruent. How do you think we should adjust our assumptions?

BTW, here is the equivalent statistical game you play every day if you believe this:

Every day, you go outside, you flip a penny 7 times. if the penny hits heads 7 times in a row (less than 1% chance - 1/128 ) then you must play a game of russian roullette with a real bullet.

Zak says

Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?

Given what I know about the PCR test which was the only test to detect the disease, I would say no - he likely did not have sars-cov2-19.

Neither do the democrats that left Texas to prevent a quorum.

NuttBoxer says

richwicks says

I object to that. I hate it when people lie to me, knowing they are lying to me. I have a strong distaste for propagandists and trolls. They are easy to identify for me, but I don't like endless argument.

The ignore button is a good option.

I disagree. I will only ignore people when EVERYBODY recognizes a troll, is a troll.

I have 3 people ignoring me, it would be interesting to find out who they are, but it's also none of my business.

I will never place a person on ignore if I think they are honestly expressing their opinion, but I will, if I think they are dishonest and only then, if everybody else has given up on taking them seriously. Troll are one of 2 things - active paid propagandists, or assholes who work on behalf of paid propagandists. They disrupt communication and coming to agreement. They are a cancer on society.

richwicks says

I can't give you numbers because everything is now suspect.

You can still give me numbers. You clearly think some number of people have gotten covid. How many do you think it is? How many do you think have died?

When you say "the CDC is lying" .. to what extent? are they off by one and therefore lying? Clearly you think differently.

Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie? How unsafe is it? Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?

Zak says

richwicks says

I can't give you numbers because everything is now suspect.

You can still give me numbers. You clearly think some number of people have gotten covid. How many do you think it is? How many do you think have died?

I can't say. I can say with certainty that there was a financial incentive to blame any death on sars-cov2-19, and it advantaged the hospital and the family. I don't blame them for being silent when a car accident victim died, when they could assign that to a "pandemic".

Zak says

When you say "the CDC is lying" .. to what extent? are they off by one and therefore lying? Clearly you think differently.

Fauci himself wrote a paper on how hydroxychloroquine was effective against corona viruses. There are several papers supporting this assertion, the WHO denies this is a possible prophylactic or a medicine for a cure. That ended the credibility of the WHO for me. I can read.

Zak says

Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie?

Well, I've seen several people damaged by it, they all could be faking - that's possible.

But I don't care if it's safe or not, all I care about is if it's effective, and there's no evidence that I've seen to suggest it's effective. I don't get flu shots because I don't see them as being very effective.

Zak says

Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?

Haha. I don't care what people are telling me, all people do is tell me where to look. I don't adopt people's conclusions, what I do is listen to them on how they supposedly drew their conclusions, and find out if they are full of shit. Even people who do their utmost to tell what they consider is the truth, make errors.

It's simple rule, if I can't provide input, I'm reading propaganda. If I'm censored, I'm on a propaganda site. But if I can talk openly, I'm in a group of people trying to figure out what is going on, but I'm also aware, those sites are filled with propagandists.

Tell me why I ought to take the "vaccine"? Again, if it's effective and you've taken it, even if I get ill, I pose no threat to you. So, why the insistence I take it? My government has never shown any regard for its population - Flint Michigan still has dangerous lead levels in their water.

This is an untested technology, and as an engineer, you know what I NEVER do? Buy the first generation of any product. We do our goddamned best to give you a working, stable machine, but we only find our mistakes after a million people buy our product. Then we fix it, and sell another million products, and find more bugs (not as many as the first generation) and by the 3rd generation - we basically get it right.

And my job is a lot simpler than biochemistry. This is the first mRNA or DNA "vaccine" that has ever been used outside of the lab. There's not even animal vaccines based on this technology. MAYBE they got it right, MAYBE - but I'm too experienced in the complexities of hitting a home run when you're at bat for the first time. I don't know the consequences of these vaccines, and neither do the people that created it. Neither do you.

I don't have faith. It's simple as that, but I have experience. Hopefully these assholes got it right, hopefully it won't cause any problems, hopefully it will actually protect against a "pandemic" that I don't know a SINGLE PERSON that died from it. Hopefully. I regard this as overblown. I never saw a need for a shutdown, and I don't believe we're in a pandemic - although I believe a disease exists but not a pandemic. Smallpox had a 30% mortality rate. This is under 1%. If you told me a year ago "you need to stay home for a year otherwise you have a 1% chance of dying" I would have laughed, and said "well, see you tomorrow at work!"

You know what your chance of being killed is being launched into space? About 4%. I can accept 1/25th that risk to have a normal life.

richwicks says

NuttBoxer says

richwicks says

I object to that. I hate it when people lie to me, knowing they are lying to me. I have a strong distaste for propagandists and trolls. They are easy to identify for me, but I don't like endless argument.

The ignore button is a good option.

I disagree. I will only ignore people when EVERYBODY recognizes a troll, is a troll.

I have 3 people ignoring me, it would be interesting to find out who they are, but it's also none of my business.

I will never place a person on ignore if I think they are honestly expressing their opinion, but I will, if I think they are dishonest and only then, if everybody else has given up on taking them seriously. Troll are one of 2 things - active paid propagandists, or assholes who work on behalf of paid propagandists. They disrup...

Agreed with pretty much all of it. I have never taken the flu shot simply because I crunch the numbers each year - doesn't take long at all - and almost each year (rarely they do get the cocktail of prognosticated strains right) the conclusion is that the yearly flu cocktail has had zero to marginal benefit at best. Yet each year people are hell bent on getting the flu shot voluntarily for their "protection" (= propaganda effect). Objectively it's simply not there. There are vaccines with a clear proven objective track record such as polio, tetanus, diphteria etc. Flu is not one of them, and the experimental biological agent labeled "covid vaxxine" fares even much worse in numbers. - it's a losing proposition for at least 80% of the population. Math doesn't lie, it just is.

richwicks says

I can't say

You can say. If you say you will have a data point to be defended as your position, so you WON'T say.
You're more terrified of being wrong. Why?
Why not put yourself behind what you believe?
All the rest of your BS just floats away when you show that you have nothing you will commit to, even in estimates that you are free to revise.

Robert Sproul says

You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported

Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?

Zak says

richwicks says

I can't say

You can say. If you say you will have a data point to be defended as your position, so you WON'T say.

FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.

I am an engineer, I had the intention of becoming a scientist, I realized I didn't want to fucking work a decade to realize my hypothesis was wrong, and I realized it wasn't a career for me. But I retain the training.

There's nothing whatsoever, to suggest this vaccine is either effective, of necessary even if it is. Data that has been published suggests that even if I get this virus, I have less than a 0.1% chance of dying. I'm willing to take that risk. I skied for 30 years, I used to hang glide, I've done 100 kpm on a bicycle, if I went down, I'd have been dead. I've taken lots of risks in my early life, I'm still here, I'm not worried about a "pandemic" my dishonest, bullshit, propaganda media has you panicked over.

You can change my mind, if you can find that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq. If you can't do that, I don't want to argue with you. I have my experience, and it's NOTHING like what our "news" reports. I'm able to talk to people all over the planet, I have friends all over the planet, and they're not dropping dead, they don't know people dropping dead, I don't think we're in a pandemic. But if you think we are, get as many shots as you like. I never will do it. Ever.

I'm not going to stand in your way, I'm not going to try to dissuade you, but believe me, there's no possible way, at all, after a year's worth of "14 days to flatten the curve" am I going to be convinced that I need a fucking shot. There's nothing you can do. Now, if this ultimately leads to my death, it's not your fault, it's mine. Stop trying "to help" me.

I'm in Silicon Valley, and observing what professional, well educated, people have done in this last year and what bullshit stupid beliefs they've been propagandized into believing leaves me in shock. I'm amazed at the brilliance of many people within their field, and how fucking amazingly stupid they are, when they step 1 inch outside of it. I'm flabbergasted. This last year, what a wakeup call to me. I never realized I was actually truly intelligent, and I worked among idiot savants.

Zak says

Robert Sproul says

You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported

Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?

1) You have to take each individual and establish their risk wrt their co-morbidities (age doesn't matter much unless there are age-related co-morbidities)
2) Establish whether prior infection has occurred - if there is any trace of antibodies it has and the vaccination is unnecessary and dangerous.
3) Given the assumption infection has not occurred yet, calculate the risk of infection (depends a lot on lifestyle)
4) Calculate the risk of death following infection on wrt readyness of effective (also prophylactic) treatments readily available via mail such as Ivermectin, HCQ + Zinc etc. - which will lower ifr drastically since the vast majority of "recorded covid deaths" have not received any treatment in the hospital
5) Match up the calculated probability of infection plus death against the death rate from the vaccine and plus most SAE and the ability of the vaccine to prevent infection plus death (which may be very poor wrt the now dominating mutations)
6) Match up personal preference of risking death by infection instead of suffering from possibly life-long unwanted side-effect (which may or may not be classified as SAE)
7) Come to a final decision

It's different for every individual but makes the vaccine a losing proposition for the majority of individuals imo, esp. an unapproved experimental biological agent. Things may change if ever a traditional real vaccine based on weakened or dead viral strains will be available (if ever), but that's where we're at for now.

And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath.

richwicks says

FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.

Ahahahahaha.. more fail.
not trying to change your mind.. keep refusing to post numbers.
Thog say: "your numbers wrong.. but my numbers secret!"

bwahahaa....

So scared. so easy to call bs on. look at your 3 paragraph story to distract from how scared you are.
haahhahaaha

Tenpoundbass says

And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath

ahahhaah more scared... more fail..

more afraid to post a number they can say is accurate

ahhahahahaa.. adults acting like children scared to say what they believe...

ooh a meme!!! way to avoid any commitment with a funny picture.. lol...
You're like a leftist NPC meme

Hey, don't ask me for a hard answer, I'll pout like a reddit teenager with memes!!

LOL!!

@mell

lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X

mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!

LOL!!! fucking funny

Let them speak, Patrick! Gas Chamber Guards need love, too!