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2021 Jul 27, 6:46pm 2,070 views 179 comments
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81
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 5:05pm
Bd6r says
This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?
"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.
Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????
Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???
If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?
There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?
Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???
I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number in your head that you think is a fair estimate.
But in engineering, that is how we solve problems, not bicker uselessly.
So if you disagree, fine.. put up your numbers, and we can talk about it.
That's the other thing.. there are always differences of opinion, methodology, etc. When we disagree, it is an opportunity to progress and refine, not an opportunity to beat someone else and show how they are stupid. We are all stupid. The goal is to try to improve our situation and understanding together.
That is, unfortunately, my feeling about this discussion.
This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?
"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.
Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????
Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???
If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?
There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?
Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???
I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number in your head that you think is a fair estimate.
But in engineering, that is how we solve problems, not bicker uselessly.
So if you disagree, fine.. put up your numbers, and we can talk about it.
That's the other thing.. there are always differences of opinion, methodology, etc. When we disagree, it is an opportunity to progress and refine, not an opportunity to beat someone else and show how they are stupid. We are all stupid. The goal is to try to improve our situation and understanding together.
82
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 5:11pm
Robert Sproul says
Ok good. a number. at a 1% chance of spread, for 300 million people in the US, this would mean 3 million infected with Covid correct?
Do you agree or disagree with the 500k dead from covid?
If you agree, and think 500k people have died out of 3 million infected, then you would be saying there is a 1 in 6 chance of dying if you catch Covid.
That's russian roulette odds.
If you think the number infected is LOWER than 1% then you are saying the chance of death is even HIGHER.
This therefore seems incongruent. How do you think we should adjust our assumptions?
BTW, here is the equivalent statistical game you play every day if you believe this:
Every day, you go outside, you flip a penny 7 times. if the penny hits heads 7 times in a row (less than 1% chance - 1/128 ) then you must play a game of russian roullette with a real bullet.
This is a very difficult number to ferret out but I recently heard from a good source that with the current levels of community spread it is roughly a 1% chance.
Ok good. a number. at a 1% chance of spread, for 300 million people in the US, this would mean 3 million infected with Covid correct?
Do you agree or disagree with the 500k dead from covid?
If you agree, and think 500k people have died out of 3 million infected, then you would be saying there is a 1 in 6 chance of dying if you catch Covid.
That's russian roulette odds.
If you think the number infected is LOWER than 1% then you are saying the chance of death is even HIGHER.
This therefore seems incongruent. How do you think we should adjust our assumptions?
BTW, here is the equivalent statistical game you play every day if you believe this:
Every day, you go outside, you flip a penny 7 times. if the penny hits heads 7 times in a row (less than 1% chance - 1/128 ) then you must play a game of russian roullette with a real bullet.
83
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:12pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:12pm
Zak says
Given what I know about the PCR test which was the only test to detect the disease, I would say no - he likely did not have sars-cov2-19.
Neither do the democrats that left Texas to prevent a quorum.
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?
Given what I know about the PCR test which was the only test to detect the disease, I would say no - he likely did not have sars-cov2-19.
Neither do the democrats that left Texas to prevent a quorum.
84
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:15pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:15pm
NuttBoxer says
I disagree. I will only ignore people when EVERYBODY recognizes a troll, is a troll.
I have 3 people ignoring me, it would be interesting to find out who they are, but it's also none of my business.
I will never place a person on ignore if I think they are honestly expressing their opinion, but I will, if I think they are dishonest and only then, if everybody else has given up on taking them seriously. Troll are one of 2 things - active paid propagandists, or assholes who work on behalf of paid propagandists. They disrupt communication and coming to agreement. They are a cancer on society.
richwicks saysI object to that. I hate it when people lie to me, knowing they are lying to me. I have a strong distaste for propagandists and trolls. They are easy to identify for me, but I don't like endless argument.
The ignore button is a good option.
I disagree. I will only ignore people when EVERYBODY recognizes a troll, is a troll.
I have 3 people ignoring me, it would be interesting to find out who they are, but it's also none of my business.
I will never place a person on ignore if I think they are honestly expressing their opinion, but I will, if I think they are dishonest and only then, if everybody else has given up on taking them seriously. Troll are one of 2 things - active paid propagandists, or assholes who work on behalf of paid propagandists. They disrupt communication and coming to agreement. They are a cancer on society.
85
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 5:16pm
richwicks says
You can still give me numbers. You clearly think some number of people have gotten covid. How many do you think it is? How many do you think have died?
When you say "the CDC is lying" .. to what extent? are they off by one and therefore lying? Clearly you think differently.
Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie? How unsafe is it? Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?
I can't give you numbers because everything is now suspect.
You can still give me numbers. You clearly think some number of people have gotten covid. How many do you think it is? How many do you think have died?
When you say "the CDC is lying" .. to what extent? are they off by one and therefore lying? Clearly you think differently.
Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie? How unsafe is it? Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?
86
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:31pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 5:31pm
Zak says
I can't say. I can say with certainty that there was a financial incentive to blame any death on sars-cov2-19, and it advantaged the hospital and the family. I don't blame them for being silent when a car accident victim died, when they could assign that to a "pandemic".
Zak says
Fauci himself wrote a paper on how hydroxychloroquine was effective against corona viruses. There are several papers supporting this assertion, the WHO denies this is a possible prophylactic or a medicine for a cure. That ended the credibility of the WHO for me. I can read.
Zak says
Well, I've seen several people damaged by it, they all could be faking - that's possible.
But I don't care if it's safe or not, all I care about is if it's effective, and there's no evidence that I've seen to suggest it's effective. I don't get flu shots because I don't see them as being very effective.
Zak says
Haha. I don't care what people are telling me, all people do is tell me where to look. I don't adopt people's conclusions, what I do is listen to them on how they supposedly drew their conclusions, and find out if they are full of shit. Even people who do their utmost to tell what they consider is the truth, make errors.
It's simple rule, if I can't provide input, I'm reading propaganda. If I'm censored, I'm on a propaganda site. But if I can talk openly, I'm in a group of people trying to figure out what is going on, but I'm also aware, those sites are filled with propagandists.
Tell me why I ought to take the "vaccine"? Again, if it's effective and you've taken it, even if I get ill, I pose no threat to you. So, why the insistence I take it? My government has never shown any regard for its population - Flint Michigan still has dangerous lead levels in their water.
This is an untested technology, and as an engineer, you know what I NEVER do? Buy the first generation of any product. We do our goddamned best to give you a working, stable machine, but we only find our mistakes after a million people buy our product. Then we fix it, and sell another million products, and find more bugs (not as many as the first generation) and by the 3rd generation - we basically get it right.
And my job is a lot simpler than biochemistry. This is the first mRNA or DNA "vaccine" that has ever been used outside of the lab. There's not even animal vaccines based on this technology. MAYBE they got it right, MAYBE - but I'm too experienced in the complexities of hitting a home run when you're at bat for the first time. I don't know the consequences of these vaccines, and neither do the people that created it. Neither do you.
I don't have faith. It's simple as that, but I have experience. Hopefully these assholes got it right, hopefully it won't cause any problems, hopefully it will actually protect against a "pandemic" that I don't know a SINGLE PERSON that died from it. Hopefully. I regard this as overblown. I never saw a need for a shutdown, and I don't believe we're in a pandemic - although I believe a disease exists but not a pandemic. Smallpox had a 30% mortality rate. This is under 1%. If you told me a year ago "you need to stay home for a year otherwise you have a 1% chance of dying" I would have laughed, and said "well, see you tomorrow at work!"
You know what your chance of being killed is being launched into space? About 4%. I can accept 1/25th that risk to have a normal life.
richwicks saysI can't give you numbers because everything is now suspect.
You can still give me numbers. You clearly think some number of people have gotten covid. How many do you think it is? How many do you think have died?
I can't say. I can say with certainty that there was a financial incentive to blame any death on sars-cov2-19, and it advantaged the hospital and the family. I don't blame them for being silent when a car accident victim died, when they could assign that to a "pandemic".
Zak says
When you say "the CDC is lying" .. to what extent? are they off by one and therefore lying? Clearly you think differently.
Fauci himself wrote a paper on how hydroxychloroquine was effective against corona viruses. There are several papers supporting this assertion, the WHO denies this is a possible prophylactic or a medicine for a cure. That ended the credibility of the WHO for me. I can read.
Zak says
Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie?
Well, I've seen several people damaged by it, they all could be faking - that's possible.
But I don't care if it's safe or not, all I care about is if it's effective, and there's no evidence that I've seen to suggest it's effective. I don't get flu shots because I don't see them as being very effective.
Zak says
Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?
Haha. I don't care what people are telling me, all people do is tell me where to look. I don't adopt people's conclusions, what I do is listen to them on how they supposedly drew their conclusions, and find out if they are full of shit. Even people who do their utmost to tell what they consider is the truth, make errors.
It's simple rule, if I can't provide input, I'm reading propaganda. If I'm censored, I'm on a propaganda site. But if I can talk openly, I'm in a group of people trying to figure out what is going on, but I'm also aware, those sites are filled with propagandists.
Tell me why I ought to take the "vaccine"? Again, if it's effective and you've taken it, even if I get ill, I pose no threat to you. So, why the insistence I take it? My government has never shown any regard for its population - Flint Michigan still has dangerous lead levels in their water.
This is an untested technology, and as an engineer, you know what I NEVER do? Buy the first generation of any product. We do our goddamned best to give you a working, stable machine, but we only find our mistakes after a million people buy our product. Then we fix it, and sell another million products, and find more bugs (not as many as the first generation) and by the 3rd generation - we basically get it right.
And my job is a lot simpler than biochemistry. This is the first mRNA or DNA "vaccine" that has ever been used outside of the lab. There's not even animal vaccines based on this technology. MAYBE they got it right, MAYBE - but I'm too experienced in the complexities of hitting a home run when you're at bat for the first time. I don't know the consequences of these vaccines, and neither do the people that created it. Neither do you.
I don't have faith. It's simple as that, but I have experience. Hopefully these assholes got it right, hopefully it won't cause any problems, hopefully it will actually protect against a "pandemic" that I don't know a SINGLE PERSON that died from it. Hopefully. I regard this as overblown. I never saw a need for a shutdown, and I don't believe we're in a pandemic - although I believe a disease exists but not a pandemic. Smallpox had a 30% mortality rate. This is under 1%. If you told me a year ago "you need to stay home for a year otherwise you have a 1% chance of dying" I would have laughed, and said "well, see you tomorrow at work!"
You know what your chance of being killed is being launched into space? About 4%. I can accept 1/25th that risk to have a normal life.
87
mell
2021 Jul 28, 6:11pm
richwicks says
Agreed with pretty much all of it. I have never taken the flu shot simply because I crunch the numbers each year - doesn't take long at all - and almost each year (rarely they do get the cocktail of prognosticated strains right) the conclusion is that the yearly flu cocktail has had zero to marginal benefit at best. Yet each year people are hell bent on getting the flu shot voluntarily for their "protection" (= propaganda effect). Objectively it's simply not there. There are vaccines with a clear proven objective track record such as polio, tetanus, diphteria etc. Flu is not one of them, and the experimental biological agent labeled "covid vaxxine" fares even much worse in numbers. - it's a losing proposition for at least 80% of the population. Math doesn't lie, it just is.
NuttBoxer saysrichwicks saysI object to that. I hate it when people lie to me, knowing they are lying to me. I have a strong distaste for propagandists and trolls. They are easy to identify for me, but I don't like endless argument.
The ignore button is a good option.
I disagree. I will only ignore people when EVERYBODY recognizes a troll, is a troll.
I have 3 people ignoring me, it would be interesting to find out who they are, but it's also none of my business.
I will never place a person on ignore if I think they are honestly expressing their opinion, but I will, if I think they are dishonest and only then, if everybody else has given up on taking them seriously. Troll are one of 2 things - active paid propagandists, or assholes who work on behalf of paid propagandists. They disrup...
Agreed with pretty much all of it. I have never taken the flu shot simply because I crunch the numbers each year - doesn't take long at all - and almost each year (rarely they do get the cocktail of prognosticated strains right) the conclusion is that the yearly flu cocktail has had zero to marginal benefit at best. Yet each year people are hell bent on getting the flu shot voluntarily for their "protection" (= propaganda effect). Objectively it's simply not there. There are vaccines with a clear proven objective track record such as polio, tetanus, diphteria etc. Flu is not one of them, and the experimental biological agent labeled "covid vaxxine" fares even much worse in numbers. - it's a losing proposition for at least 80% of the population. Math doesn't lie, it just is.
88
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 6:11pm
richwicks says
You can say. If you say you will have a data point to be defended as your position, so you WON'T say.
You're more terrified of being wrong. Why?
Why not put yourself behind what you believe?
All the rest of your BS just floats away when you show that you have nothing you will commit to, even in estimates that you are free to revise.
I can't say
You can say. If you say you will have a data point to be defended as your position, so you WON'T say.
You're more terrified of being wrong. Why?
Why not put yourself behind what you believe?
All the rest of your BS just floats away when you show that you have nothing you will commit to, even in estimates that you are free to revise.
89
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 6:16pm
Robert Sproul says
Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?
You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported
Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?
90
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 6:30pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 6:30pm
Zak says
FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.
I am an engineer, I had the intention of becoming a scientist, I realized I didn't want to fucking work a decade to realize my hypothesis was wrong, and I realized it wasn't a career for me. But I retain the training.
There's nothing whatsoever, to suggest this vaccine is either effective, of necessary even if it is. Data that has been published suggests that even if I get this virus, I have less than a 0.1% chance of dying. I'm willing to take that risk. I skied for 30 years, I used to hang glide, I've done 100 kpm on a bicycle, if I went down, I'd have been dead. I've taken lots of risks in my early life, I'm still here, I'm not worried about a "pandemic" my dishonest, bullshit, propaganda media has you panicked over.
You can change my mind, if you can find that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq. If you can't do that, I don't want to argue with you. I have my experience, and it's NOTHING like what our "news" reports. I'm able to talk to people all over the planet, I have friends all over the planet, and they're not dropping dead, they don't know people dropping dead, I don't think we're in a pandemic. But if you think we are, get as many shots as you like. I never will do it. Ever.
I'm not going to stand in your way, I'm not going to try to dissuade you, but believe me, there's no possible way, at all, after a year's worth of "14 days to flatten the curve" am I going to be convinced that I need a fucking shot. There's nothing you can do. Now, if this ultimately leads to my death, it's not your fault, it's mine. Stop trying "to help" me.
I'm in Silicon Valley, and observing what professional, well educated, people have done in this last year and what bullshit stupid beliefs they've been propagandized into believing leaves me in shock. I'm amazed at the brilliance of many people within their field, and how fucking amazingly stupid they are, when they step 1 inch outside of it. I'm flabbergasted. This last year, what a wakeup call to me. I never realized I was actually truly intelligent, and I worked among idiot savants.
richwicks says
I can't say
You can say. If you say you will have a data point to be defended as your position, so you WON'T say.
FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.
I am an engineer, I had the intention of becoming a scientist, I realized I didn't want to fucking work a decade to realize my hypothesis was wrong, and I realized it wasn't a career for me. But I retain the training.
There's nothing whatsoever, to suggest this vaccine is either effective, of necessary even if it is. Data that has been published suggests that even if I get this virus, I have less than a 0.1% chance of dying. I'm willing to take that risk. I skied for 30 years, I used to hang glide, I've done 100 kpm on a bicycle, if I went down, I'd have been dead. I've taken lots of risks in my early life, I'm still here, I'm not worried about a "pandemic" my dishonest, bullshit, propaganda media has you panicked over.
You can change my mind, if you can find that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq. If you can't do that, I don't want to argue with you. I have my experience, and it's NOTHING like what our "news" reports. I'm able to talk to people all over the planet, I have friends all over the planet, and they're not dropping dead, they don't know people dropping dead, I don't think we're in a pandemic. But if you think we are, get as many shots as you like. I never will do it. Ever.
I'm not going to stand in your way, I'm not going to try to dissuade you, but believe me, there's no possible way, at all, after a year's worth of "14 days to flatten the curve" am I going to be convinced that I need a fucking shot. There's nothing you can do. Now, if this ultimately leads to my death, it's not your fault, it's mine. Stop trying "to help" me.
I'm in Silicon Valley, and observing what professional, well educated, people have done in this last year and what bullshit stupid beliefs they've been propagandized into believing leaves me in shock. I'm amazed at the brilliance of many people within their field, and how fucking amazingly stupid they are, when they step 1 inch outside of it. I'm flabbergasted. This last year, what a wakeup call to me. I never realized I was actually truly intelligent, and I worked among idiot savants.
91
mell
2021 Jul 28, 6:32pm
Zak says
1) You have to take each individual and establish their risk wrt their co-morbidities (age doesn't matter much unless there are age-related co-morbidities)
2) Establish whether prior infection has occurred - if there is any trace of antibodies it has and the vaccination is unnecessary and dangerous.
3) Given the assumption infection has not occurred yet, calculate the risk of infection (depends a lot on lifestyle)
4) Calculate the risk of death following infection on wrt readyness of effective (also prophylactic) treatments readily available via mail such as Ivermectin, HCQ + Zinc etc. - which will lower ifr drastically since the vast majority of "recorded covid deaths" have not received any treatment in the hospital
5) Match up the calculated probability of infection plus death against the death rate from the vaccine and plus most SAE and the ability of the vaccine to prevent infection plus death (which may be very poor wrt the now dominating mutations)
6) Match up personal preference of risking death by infection instead of suffering from possibly life-long unwanted side-effect (which may or may not be classified as SAE)
7) Come to a final decision
It's different for every individual but makes the vaccine a losing proposition for the majority of individuals imo, esp. an unapproved experimental biological agent. Things may change if ever a traditional real vaccine based on weakened or dead viral strains will be available (if ever), but that's where we're at for now.
Robert Sproul saysYou are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported
Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?
1) You have to take each individual and establish their risk wrt their co-morbidities (age doesn't matter much unless there are age-related co-morbidities)
2) Establish whether prior infection has occurred - if there is any trace of antibodies it has and the vaccination is unnecessary and dangerous.
3) Given the assumption infection has not occurred yet, calculate the risk of infection (depends a lot on lifestyle)
4) Calculate the risk of death following infection on wrt readyness of effective (also prophylactic) treatments readily available via mail such as Ivermectin, HCQ + Zinc etc. - which will lower ifr drastically since the vast majority of "recorded covid deaths" have not received any treatment in the hospital
5) Match up the calculated probability of infection plus death against the death rate from the vaccine and plus most SAE and the ability of the vaccine to prevent infection plus death (which may be very poor wrt the now dominating mutations)
6) Match up personal preference of risking death by infection instead of suffering from possibly life-long unwanted side-effect (which may or may not be classified as SAE)
7) Come to a final decision
It's different for every individual but makes the vaccine a losing proposition for the majority of individuals imo, esp. an unapproved experimental biological agent. Things may change if ever a traditional real vaccine based on weakened or dead viral strains will be available (if ever), but that's where we're at for now.
92
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 28, 6:40pm
Tenpoundbass
2021 Jul 28, 6:40pm
And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath.
93
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 6:46pm
richwicks says
Ahahahahaha.. more fail.
not trying to change your mind.. keep refusing to post numbers.
Thog say: "your numbers wrong.. but my numbers secret!"
bwahahaa....
So scared. so easy to call bs on. look at your 3 paragraph story to distract from how scared you are.
haahhahaaha
FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.
Ahahahahaha.. more fail.
not trying to change your mind.. keep refusing to post numbers.
Thog say: "your numbers wrong.. but my numbers secret!"
bwahahaa....
So scared. so easy to call bs on. look at your 3 paragraph story to distract from how scared you are.
haahhahaaha
95
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 6:50pm
Tenpoundbass says
ahahhaah more scared... more fail..
more afraid to post a number they can say is accurate
ahhahahahaa.. adults acting like children scared to say what they believe...
ooh a meme!!! way to avoid any commitment with a funny picture.. lol...
You're like a leftist NPC meme
Hey, don't ask me for a hard answer, I'll pout like a reddit teenager with memes!!
LOL!!
And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath
ahahhaah more scared... more fail..
more afraid to post a number they can say is accurate
ahhahahahaa.. adults acting like children scared to say what they believe...
ooh a meme!!! way to avoid any commitment with a funny picture.. lol...
You're like a leftist NPC meme
Hey, don't ask me for a hard answer, I'll pout like a reddit teenager with memes!!
LOL!!
96
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 6:54pm
@mell
lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X
mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!
LOL!!! fucking funny
lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X
mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!
LOL!!! fucking funny
98
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 7:07pm
yay!! hard question gets spam brigaded again
GOGOGO
@mell
@tenpoundbass
@rickwicks
YES, your bloviation is JUST AS GOOD as anything resembling an on topic discussion because you can just spew bullshit and avoid answering a question.
Bravo. You have truly shown that you are intelligent and relevant with your no added value sophomoric commentary!
Don't trust anything! No I can't tell you what is wrong with that, but trust me, it's wrong!
No I can't say how much it is wrong by... it just is! People tell me that!!
Lol.
@Patrick.. is this really what is fanning your flames?
I might just be speaking to an empty house here anyway! Lol.
GOGOGO
@mell
@tenpoundbass
@rickwicks
YES, your bloviation is JUST AS GOOD as anything resembling an on topic discussion because you can just spew bullshit and avoid answering a question.
Bravo. You have truly shown that you are intelligent and relevant with your no added value sophomoric commentary!
Don't trust anything! No I can't tell you what is wrong with that, but trust me, it's wrong!
No I can't say how much it is wrong by... it just is! People tell me that!!
Lol.
@Patrick.. is this really what is fanning your flames?
I might just be speaking to an empty house here anyway! Lol.
99
mell
2021 Jul 28, 7:12pm
Zak says
Medicine is tailored to the individual. Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense, notable exceptions are smallpox where a 30% ifr and (back then) a decent risk of infection made sense to vaccinate everyone who never had it. And almost nobody objected. Similarly for tetanus. It's the same reason not everybody is mandated to ride in a car seat, only children. It doesn't make sense for adults, even though they may save a few. All people are saying is inoculation with an experimental biological agent where the math doesn't work out for most should be optional.
@mell
lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X
mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!
LOL!!! fucking funny
Medicine is tailored to the individual. Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense, notable exceptions are smallpox where a 30% ifr and (back then) a decent risk of infection made sense to vaccinate everyone who never had it. And almost nobody objected. Similarly for tetanus. It's the same reason not everybody is mandated to ride in a car seat, only children. It doesn't make sense for adults, even though they may save a few. All people are saying is inoculation with an experimental biological agent where the math doesn't work out for most should be optional.
100
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 7:15pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 7:15pm
Zak says
I print out a lengthy explanation, and you always respond to a single sentence.
Why should I think you are taking any effort in having an honest constructive conversation to me? You've done this twice.
Zak says
Hmm, you're one to talk when you respond this way:
https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1770010
To this response:
https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1769990
Your only goal is to waste people's time, not to actually think or challenge opinion and you go through the absolute minimum effort to do this.
Still, as a matter of principle, I very rarely place anybody on ignore.
richwicks saysFFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.
Ahahahahaha.. more fail.
I print out a lengthy explanation, and you always respond to a single sentence.
Why should I think you are taking any effort in having an honest constructive conversation to me? You've done this twice.
Zak says
YES, your bloviation is JUST AS GOOD as anything resembling an on topic discussion because you can just spew bullshit and avoid answering a question.
Hmm, you're one to talk when you respond this way:
https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1770010
To this response:
https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1769990
Your only goal is to waste people's time, not to actually think or challenge opinion and you go through the absolute minimum effort to do this.
Still, as a matter of principle, I very rarely place anybody on ignore.
101
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 7:17pm
mell says
Keep going.. This is super entertaining watching you try to spew complete bullshit and sound like you have some relevant reason to not talk about the numbers.
Yes.. Car seats!! I won't give numbers because Car seats!!
Once you see it its fucking hilarious.
Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense,
Keep going.. This is super entertaining watching you try to spew complete bullshit and sound like you have some relevant reason to not talk about the numbers.
Yes.. Car seats!! I won't give numbers because Car seats!!
Once you see it its fucking hilarious.
102
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 7:23pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 7:23pm
Zak says
Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?
Zak says
We're not scared. This is why we view the vaccine as pointless at best, detrimental at worst.
Are you sars-cov2-19 positive? Let's have a beer while you cough and hack in my face. I'm pretty certain I'll survive.
I'm still waiting to see that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq that we couldn't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. They murdered between 100,000 and 1 million people over that - we don't know because Rumsfeld famously stated "we don't do body counts". These are the assholes you are telling me to listen to.
Why do you continue to listen to them? We have had Sars, Mers, a bunch of fake pandemics, for 20 years - why should I believe this is the real deal, when they've lied to me so many times before? They have no credibility with me. Why do you consider them credible?
But I expect you won't read this, you will simply respond to my first sentence: "Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?"
mell saysRarely do blanket vaccinations make sense,
Keep going.. This is super entertaining watching you try to spew complete bullshit and sound like you have some relevant reason to not talk about the numbers.
Yes.. Car seats!! I won't give numbers because Car seats!!
Once you see it its fucking hilarious.
Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?
Zak says
So scared
We're not scared. This is why we view the vaccine as pointless at best, detrimental at worst.
Are you sars-cov2-19 positive? Let's have a beer while you cough and hack in my face. I'm pretty certain I'll survive.
I'm still waiting to see that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq that we couldn't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. They murdered between 100,000 and 1 million people over that - we don't know because Rumsfeld famously stated "we don't do body counts". These are the assholes you are telling me to listen to.
Why do you continue to listen to them? We have had Sars, Mers, a bunch of fake pandemics, for 20 years - why should I believe this is the real deal, when they've lied to me so many times before? They have no credibility with me. Why do you consider them credible?
But I expect you won't read this, you will simply respond to my first sentence: "Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?"
103
Robert Sproul
2021 Jul 28, 7:25pm
Zak says
Yeah well, MY assumptions are going to be that doing away with animal challenge studies (which apparently all previous mRNA “vaccines” failed) and cutting the development time from years to months, and providing the felonious drug companies complete immunity from liability, creates the conditions for an inherently unsafe product.
They will have to prove otherwise to me over the course of the next several years.
"Operation Warp Speed" it sounds like an 80's Metallica tour.
Robert Sproul saysYou are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported
Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?
Yeah well, MY assumptions are going to be that doing away with animal challenge studies (which apparently all previous mRNA “vaccines” failed) and cutting the development time from years to months, and providing the felonious drug companies complete immunity from liability, creates the conditions for an inherently unsafe product.
They will have to prove otherwise to me over the course of the next several years.
"Operation Warp Speed" it sounds like an 80's Metallica tour.
104
GNL
2021 Jul 28, 7:26pm
GNL
2021 Jul 28, 7:26pm
richwicks says
You are dead right about that.
This "pandemic" is cover for something. I suspect economic reset, but engh, I don't know. I'll find out in time, but it's not about a disease.
You are dead right about that.
105
GNL
2021 Jul 28, 7:37pm
GNL
2021 Jul 28, 7:37pm
Zak says
Zak,
Covid has become a religion. How do you combat people's beliefs? The fact that we've experienced so many lies plus all the censoring should be enough to simply forget about the whole thing and celebrate freedom. What's so bad about freedom? This is what the whole point is imo.
Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie? How unsafe is it? Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?
Zak,
Covid has become a religion. How do you combat people's beliefs? The fact that we've experienced so many lies plus all the censoring should be enough to simply forget about the whole thing and celebrate freedom. What's so bad about freedom? This is what the whole point is imo.
106
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 7:51pm
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 7:51pm
I think there is an incredible amount of leftist anger at the 51% of the country that voted for Trump the first time, and the 52% that voted for him the second time, and they want to make all those millions of people suffer for trying to escape the oppression of the oligarchy.
They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.
They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.
107
Robert Sproul
2021 Jul 28, 8:07pm
WineHorror1 says
They do seem like Covid Fanatics. And if I am Vaccine Hesitant they are Vaccine Zealots.
Covid has become a religion
They do seem like Covid Fanatics. And if I am Vaccine Hesitant they are Vaccine Zealots.
108
Bd6r
2021 Jul 28, 8:20pm
Bd6r
2021 Jul 28, 8:20pm
Zak says
I have education in a field that is related to biochemistry, and I work in that field. As I said, I don't know the number. I don't have evidence to think one way or another, and as a scientist, I can not just pull numbers out of my ass. I don't know how covid spreads. My friends at top schools in US say that they think that CDC is full of shit with respect to their ideas how covid spreads, and I concur. How will talking to doctors help, let me know? It will be anecdotal, just like my experience. I got covid myself, and it was 25 days AFTER I got a fucking covid shot - how does this correlate with reality from TV and CDC? How does it correlate with fact that 2 months BEFORE I got covid shot, I was in car for 3 hours with my neighbor who went down with covid a day later, and I did not get covid then??? I had 3 students come down with covid last year, and did not get fucking covid then, only AFTER the shot? How does THAT correlate with CDC? Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run? Should we just pull numbers out of our asses? And I do not watch TV or listen to radio, but I do try to follow SCIENCE! about this, but SCIENCE! does not provide numbers for illnesses/deaths, that is politics.
This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?
"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.
Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????
Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???
If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?
There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?
Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???
I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number...
I have education in a field that is related to biochemistry, and I work in that field. As I said, I don't know the number. I don't have evidence to think one way or another, and as a scientist, I can not just pull numbers out of my ass. I don't know how covid spreads. My friends at top schools in US say that they think that CDC is full of shit with respect to their ideas how covid spreads, and I concur. How will talking to doctors help, let me know? It will be anecdotal, just like my experience. I got covid myself, and it was 25 days AFTER I got a fucking covid shot - how does this correlate with reality from TV and CDC? How does it correlate with fact that 2 months BEFORE I got covid shot, I was in car for 3 hours with my neighbor who went down with covid a day later, and I did not get covid then??? I had 3 students come down with covid last year, and did not get fucking covid then, only AFTER the shot? How does THAT correlate with CDC? Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run? Should we just pull numbers out of our asses? And I do not watch TV or listen to radio, but I do try to follow SCIENCE! about this, but SCIENCE! does not provide numbers for illnesses/deaths, that is politics.
109
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 8:24pm
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 8:24pm
Bd6r says
https://patrick.net/post/1340335/2021-07-29-cdc-quietly-withdraws-emergency-use-aut
Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run?
https://patrick.net/post/1340335/2021-07-29-cdc-quietly-withdraws-emergency-use-aut
CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza
110
Bd6r
2021 Jul 28, 8:26pm
Bd6r
2021 Jul 28, 8:26pm
Patrick says
that explains "lack" of flu deaths last year. But again, due to social distancing this number was likely somewhat lower than in normal years so it is not clear how many flu deaths were counted as covid deaths.
CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza
that explains "lack" of flu deaths last year. But again, due to social distancing this number was likely somewhat lower than in normal years so it is not clear how many flu deaths were counted as covid deaths.
111
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 8:29pm
richwicks
2021 Jul 28, 8:29pm
Patrick says
It's NOT leftist anger.
It's authoritarians that are pissed off. The "leftists" are just useful idiots. They don't know, don't condemn them, we are all subject to propaganda and fall victim to it. They are the last true believers. They believe they have control over the government and control it. They are naive, they aren't stupid, they aren't morons, they just don't understand they on on leash by a despotic, out of control, oligarchy. They are simply ignorant.
I think there is an incredible amount of leftist anger at the 51% of the country that voted for Trump the first time, and the 52% that voted for him the second time, and they want to make all those millions of people suffer for trying to escape the oppression of the oligarchy.
They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.
It's NOT leftist anger.
It's authoritarians that are pissed off. The "leftists" are just useful idiots. They don't know, don't condemn them, we are all subject to propaganda and fall victim to it. They are the last true believers. They believe they have control over the government and control it. They are naive, they aren't stupid, they aren't morons, they just don't understand they on on leash by a despotic, out of control, oligarchy. They are simply ignorant.
112
PeopleUnited
2021 Jul 28, 8:43pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Jul 28, 8:43pm
Zak says
There is nothing anyone can do to guarantee they won’t become infected with an airborne virus. In other words no matter what you do, as long as you are breathing you have some non-zero risk of a viral infection.
On the other hand taking a jab is like playing Russian roulette. Eventually someone ends up with a .357 size entry wound, that is unless they refuse the pull the trigger. Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.
It is unknown what my real risk of either the jab or another viral infection is, but I can reduce my risk of injury by the jab to zero.
I keep trying to ask this, but what is it about the shot that you think is MORE dangerous than Covid?
There is nothing anyone can do to guarantee they won’t become infected with an airborne virus. In other words no matter what you do, as long as you are breathing you have some non-zero risk of a viral infection.
On the other hand taking a jab is like playing Russian roulette. Eventually someone ends up with a .357 size entry wound, that is unless they refuse the pull the trigger. Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.
It is unknown what my real risk of either the jab or another viral infection is, but I can reduce my risk of injury by the jab to zero.
113
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 8:45pm
Patrick
2021 Jul 28, 8:45pm
PeopleUnited says
This.
I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab. Then when my wife's co-worker dropped dead, we were both deeply spooked.
I don't know anyone who got seriously ill from the disease.
Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.
This.
I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab. Then when my wife's co-worker dropped dead, we were both deeply spooked.
I don't know anyone who got seriously ill from the disease.
114
WookieMan
2021 Jul 28, 9:14pm
WookieMan
2021 Jul 28, 9:14pm
Zak says
30+ positive tests of close friends and family. Only one got ill and went to a doc (not ER or ICU) and they had him quit the high THC pot here in IL that's legal to help his lungs. He was also fat. He was down for 2 weeks. Boo hoo, cry me a river. The others lost sense of smell and had the sniffles no different than a typical flu. Oh the horror. Let me take some medicine that our own government hasn't approved. Logical solution.... said no one with a brain.
There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.
post what numbers you believe
30+ positive tests of close friends and family. Only one got ill and went to a doc (not ER or ICU) and they had him quit the high THC pot here in IL that's legal to help his lungs. He was also fat. He was down for 2 weeks. Boo hoo, cry me a river. The others lost sense of smell and had the sniffles no different than a typical flu. Oh the horror. Let me take some medicine that our own government hasn't approved. Logical solution.... said no one with a brain.
There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.
115
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 9:35pm
WookieMan says
If this is so then post what death numbers you think are attributeable to covid, and what are attributable to the vaccine. I'm not hiding behind anything. I put out there what I believe.
Why are you scared?
There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.
If this is so then post what death numbers you think are attributeable to covid, and what are attributable to the vaccine. I'm not hiding behind anything. I put out there what I believe.
Why are you scared?
116
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 9:36pm
Patrick says
So you believe all these people are dying from the jab, and none from covid.. fine.. put up the numbers you believe.
How many people do you believe died from covid in the US?
From the jab?
This.
I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab.
So you believe all these people are dying from the jab, and none from covid.. fine.. put up the numbers you believe.
How many people do you believe died from covid in the US?
From the jab?
117
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 9:38pm
WookieMan says
So your numbers are you think 30 people in the country got sick and no one died from Covid?
Is that your belief? If not, please correct me.
How many do you think died from covid?
How many from the jab?
30+ positive tests of close friends and family.
So your numbers are you think 30 people in the country got sick and no one died from Covid?
Is that your belief? If not, please correct me.
How many do you think died from covid?
How many from the jab?
119
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 9:41pm
PeopleUnited says
Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?
How many people do you believe have died from the jab?
Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.
Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?
How many people do you believe have died from the jab?
120
Zak
2021 Jul 28, 9:47pm
I don't get it. It's not like I'm asking any of you to sign a contract stating you will leave the internet if your numbers are wrong. Just estimate.
How many people do you think have died from covid, and how many from the jab!?!
It's a very straightforward question. You all are eager to tell me that the numbers I put up are incorrect. Fine! What do you think the correct numbers are!?!!?
I'm not even asking you to JUSTIFY what you think your numbers are... just whatever anecdotal claptrap you feel has any sort of realness to it in your head!
What are you afraid I will tell you you're wrong????
Just say what you think the numbers are.. Its easy.. the number keys are right above all those letters you relentlessly press while avoiding the question.
reach up there and press a few digits that indicate how many you think are dead due to either cause. Guess! What FEELS right to you!?!?
How many people do you think have died from covid, and how many from the jab!?!
It's a very straightforward question. You all are eager to tell me that the numbers I put up are incorrect. Fine! What do you think the correct numbers are!?!!?
I'm not even asking you to JUSTIFY what you think your numbers are... just whatever anecdotal claptrap you feel has any sort of realness to it in your head!
What are you afraid I will tell you you're wrong????
Just say what you think the numbers are.. Its easy.. the number keys are right above all those letters you relentlessly press while avoiding the question.
reach up there and press a few digits that indicate how many you think are dead due to either cause. Guess! What FEELS right to you!?!?
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No one on patrick.net may advocate the "vaccine" and remain here.
The "vaccine" is NOT SAFE. It is being relentlessly pushed by the government-media-Big Pharma complex without informed consent. This is a gross human rights violation.
The idea that is it safe is fatal misinformation.
It everyone's moral imperative to stop all injections with this dangerous substance immediately.
Every post or content advocating suicide by "vaccine" will be deleted pronto.