patrick.net

socal2 says

Also, can you show me any experts who can explain how anyone could rig these massive OCCUPIED buildings without anyone seeing a thing?

Yeah. Google it.

Oh wait, Google is part of the conspiracy. Try duckduckgo.

I don't want to debate the minutiae again. Anyone that has looked at the evidence and accepts the official story is lying, delusional, or suffering from cognitive dissonance at the thought that elements of our our government could be so evil; Some other reason?

Bitcoin says

socal2 says

You would think we would have some reasonable physical evidence or whistle blowers by now instead of the same crank "experts" making the same claims over the same video for the past 20 years.

Socal2 you are spot on :) Couldnt have said it better.

It would take an armada of resources and manpower to pull this off. It doesnt matter to the conspiracy theorists that there isnt a single piece of evidence and not a single whistleblower. People just want to believe this crap without any proof. You cant fix that by trying to reason with them. Its like trying to convince a brainwashed, religious cult. Total waste of time but thanks anyways for your comments!

Bitcoin, it’s obvious to anyone with some intelligence and an open mind that the narrative is complete bullshit.There is proof, and there are whistleblowers. Unintelligent, loudmouths like you aren’t worth debating with, it’s a complete waste of energy.

Hell, there were thousands of whistleblowers saying bad or fraudulent behavior occurred during the 2020 election, but all of that meant NOTHING.

Our government, MSM, Big Tech and most big corporations are fucking corrupt as hell and absolutely conspire to commit crimes and cover them up.

Any public figure who publicly stated any skepticism of the official 9/11 narrative was promptly discredited and lost their career.

PaisleyPattern says

Unintelligent, loudmouths like you aren’t worth debating with, it’s a complete waste of energy.

Ignore really works.

The debate is over. 9/11 was to end the 4th amendment. Wuhan took care of the 1st amendment.

All that is left is to clean up the dissidents.

And that pesky 2nd amendment.

Onvacation says

PaisleyPattern says

Unintelligent, loudmouths like you aren’t worth debating with, it’s a complete waste of energy.

Ignore really works.

The debate is over. 9/11 was to end the 4th amendment. Wuhan took care of the 1st amendment.

All that is left is to clean up the dissidents.

And that pesky 2nd amendment.

It’s always been so easy to dupe the majority of people in the world. People who try to stand up to these types of things are pounced on by the establishment so quickly. Pretty tough situation.It’s possible an underground resistance will develop that will use guerrilla warfare tactics to take revenge and take pot shots at people who can be identified as being behind these events.

PaisleyPattern says

Any public figure who publicly stated any skepticism of the official 9/11 narrative was promptly discredited and lost their career.

Bingo!

Most public figures are extremely concerned with what their peers think of them for exactly this reason, and so they don't even attempt to think for themselves.

https://patrick.net/post/1338725/2021-04-07-the-elite-are-the-most-likely-to-censor

Bitcoin says

It would take an armada of resources and manpower to pull this off. It doesnt matter to the conspiracy theorists that there isnt a single piece of evidence and not a single whistleblower. People just want to believe this crap without any proof. You cant fix that by trying to reason with them. Its like trying to convince a brainwashed, religious cult. Total waste of time but thanks anyways for your comments!

What reasoning have you done though? If Trump has done anything, it's to question the narrative we've been given for anything coming from government.

I'm personally on both sides of the fence on 9/11. There are way too many things that had to go perfect for it to work. As in hijacking 4 planes and 3 successfully hitting targets. That's kind of undeniable.

There's also luck and the Islamist A-holes pulled it off. And maybe the narrative is correct. It's okay to question both sides. Planting explosives in multiple massive buildings is highly unlikely. It's also highly unlikely that these guys were trained well enough to basically hit 3 targets, with no passenger interference, remove 2 pilots from each plane cockpit and visually hit the targets.

I agree with you on whistleblowers. There would have been one. But money and threat of your life or your families life can easily shut people up. We've just printed an extra $5T in the last year because of a virus. On top of the money we were already printing.

I don't care how moral anyone is, give 100 people $10M per person and threat of death if they speak, they'll do your bidding. US government can easily dish out $1B in a heartbeat and no one would notice.

All that said I honestly don't know what to believe. We'll probably never know. For the families that lost loved ones, that actually happened and sucks. So I get dragging the topic on is shitty. That's generally the reason I don't discuss it much, but maybe that was by design. Gotta question everything is my take. Once someone calls one a conspiracy theorist, it's likely for a reason.

socal2 says

Also, can you show me any experts who can explain how anyone could rig these massive OCCUPIED buildings without anyone seeing a thing?

20 years later and people still don't realize that the WTC buildings were never fully occupied. They were super expensive to rent office space in, and they were old, asbestos, filled buildings. The reason ONE building replaced all 5 is because they didn't need that much floor space.

Neil Bush has a security company that controlled security of the WTC as well.

If you've not looked into it, that's the only reason you don't find anything suspicious. I can list ton of weird anomolies, like Lucky Larry Silverstein who always had breakfast in the WTC except that ONE time. Silverstein just bought a long term lease on the buildings before, and just 6 months before the attack, DRASTICALLY raised insurance coverage.

I have gone thorugh this so many times trying to get people to see my point of view, to BELIEVE me when I repeat facts about the day, to check what I've said over - I'm just done with it. I can barely convince a well educated republican that Saddam Hussein didn't have a weapons of mass destruction program, and George W. Bush KNEW he didn't today.

People prefer their innocence. They don't like having their world turned upside down. We're going into full blown tyranny because people just won't fucking see reality, and realize the US federal government is THAT evil, THAT corrupt - there's no pushback, so they'll just get worse and worse and worse and worse. I genuinely feel sorry for the next generation.

WookieMan says

Bitcoin says

It would take an armada of resources and manpower to pull this off. It doesnt matter to the conspiracy theorists that there isnt a single piece of evidence and not a single whistleblower. People just want to believe this crap without any proof. You cant fix that by trying to reason with them. Its like trying to convince a brainwashed, religious cult. Total waste of time but thanks anyways for your comments!

What reasoning

Exactly, its impossible to reason with conspiracy theorists. They dont want to look at it objectively. They want it to be a conspiracy. You can lead a donkey to the water but you cant make her drink.

Bitcoin says

WookieMan says

Bitcoin says

It would take an armada of resources and manpower to pull this off. It doesnt matter to the conspiracy theorists that there isnt a single piece of evidence and not a single whistleblower. People just want to believe this crap without any proof. You cant fix that by trying to reason with them. Its like trying to convince a brainwashed, religious cult. Total waste of time but thanks anyways for your comments!

What reasoning

Exactly, its impossible to reason with conspiracy theorists. They dont want to look at it objectively. They want it to be a conspiracy. You can lead a donkey to the water but you cant make her drink.

Here’s an idea, why don’t you go through all the points that are typically brought up by 9/11 skeptics, and refute them with logic. You haven’t done anything like that ,you just make a blanket denial, you say it would take an “armada of resources” to have set up the 911 as a false flag. Well. the people who do things like this have unlimited resources, it’s the same organizations that attack other countries and have 15 year wars that cost trillions of dollars. Resources are not a problem

richwicks says

People prefer their innocence. They don't like having their world turned upside down. We're going into full blown tyranny because people just won't fucking see reality, and realize the US federal government is THAT evil, THAT corrupt

I had a hard time wrapping my head around how my beloved America could have such evil people. Four years of Trump has exposed that that America I have loved my whole life is just an ideal.

Onvacation says

I had a hard time wrapping my head around how my beloved America could have such evil people. Four years of Trump has exposed that that America I have loved my whole life is just an ideal.

Part of the point of electing Trump was juts a big Fuck You to the establishment. The country basically said, we'll elect anybody other than one of your career political fraud fucks.

Now a bonus on top of that, is that Trump then started to point out corruption, and propaganda within our media system and our "news" went full propaganda. The hypocrisy of the government became very blatant as well. The FIB would prosecute the smallest, most insignificant crime or even make them up, while they lied to the FISA courts, blatantly violated laws, and refused to investigate blatantly obvious crimes.

But the icing on the cake was that the establishment couldn't regain control so they either took advantage of this "pandemic" or arranged it (in part) to steal an election.

PaisleyPattern says

Here’s an idea

I've got an even better idea. Just read the smart comments by smart people from socal:

"socal2 says
You would think we would have some reasonable physical evidence or whistle blowers by now instead of the same crank "experts" making the same claims over the same video for the past 20 years."

Bitcoin says

"socal2 says
You would think we would have some reasonable physical evidence or whistle blowers by now instead of the same crank "experts" making the same claims over the same video for the past 20 years."

There was molten metal at the site for months. That doesn't happen with office fires. It wasn't just cherry red hot, it was molten. You could see it during excavation.

For all we know, the WTC buildings have been rigged for controlled demolition since 1993 after the WTC bombing, as an contingency in case the buildings had to be brought down in a controlled demolition instead of allowing them to topple over - and nobody was told, and it was done secretly.

I get tired of trying to explain that a lot of hypothesis that are thrown out there are meant to lead people down false paths. You don't have to understand what was done or how it was done, all you have to realize is you've been lied to. Whenever there's a false flag event, they will IMMEDIATELY announce who is "responsible". Suddenly they can find and identify a person in minutes.

Come on, they found the passports of the supposed hijakers on 9/11. Do you really a passport could go through an explosion that ultimately took down a sky scraper?

PaisleyPattern says

it’s the same organizations that attack other countries and have 15 year wars

I dont mind targeted drone strikes on Muslim terrorists. The world is a better place without them.

richwicks says

Now a bonus on top of that, is that Trump then started to point out corruption, and propaganda within our media system and our "news" went full propaganda. The hypocrisy of the government became very blatant as well. The FIB would prosecute the smallest, most insignificant crime or even make them up, while they lied to the FISA courts, blatantly violated laws, and refused to investigate blatantly obvious crimes.

I am totally with you in believing the corrupt and venal nature of our Federal government. Where we part ways is that I think you give waaaay too much credit to the competency and smarts of the US Federal Government. It is not like the movies. Look at how ham-fisted and amateurish all the shit the FBI and DOJ tried to pull on Trump with Russian collusion crap. Most people and the Conservative media were able to see through the lies almost instantly and ferret out hack FBI officials forging documents and using debunked dossiers as evidence.

Yet we are to believe the US government staged 9/11 so they could justify the Patriot Act, increase military spending and provide an excuse to invade Afghanistan (for what?) and invade Iraq to "steal" their oil - right? Yet these same masterminds that can manage to pull off such a complex plot with a billion moving parts like 9/11 without leaving a trace of evidence, were too stupid or were unable to stage some WMD stockpiles in Iraq to keep this whole 9/11 scam going?

socal2 says

Yet we are to believe the US government staged 9/11 so they could justify the Patriot Act, increase military spending and provide an excuse to invade Afghanistan (for what?) and invade Iraq to "steal" their oil - right? Yet these same masterminds that can manage to pull off such a complex plot with a billion moving parts like 9/11 without leaving a trace of evidence, were too stupid or were unable to stage some WMD stockpiles in Iraq to keep this whole 9/11 scam going?

Holy shit. Highly entertaining to see this guy outsmarting our conspiracy theorists.....Let's see what crazy-tin-foil-hat explanation they come up with! Nice work Socal2.

socal2 says

Yet we are to believe the US government staged 9/11 so they could justify the Patriot Act,

NO. We do not know what the actual motivation is for it. We don't know.

Again, we only know that our government LIED to us. Why they did, that's just speculation.

I know, with ABSOLUTE certainty that WTC7 didn't collapse the way the government claims it collapsed. It didn't collapse because of damage coupled with fire. The Finite element simulation is "classified" and it doesn't reflect what was seen, from SEVERAL angles. University at Fairbanks made a finite element simulation, and it DOES closely match observation. The way they did this, was to (nearly) simultaneously cut support columns.

You don't know why the US is in Afghanistan. You don't know the plan in Iraq. You don't know why the US overthrew Ukraine. You don't know why the US bombed Libya - you can speculate, but you don't know. These people lie and kill MILLIONS of people. For all you know, the US has been preparing to make war on Russia for the last 30 years, and it's possible, but you don't know.

socal2 says

with a billion moving parts like 9/11 without leaving a trace of evidence,

They leave evidence all over the fucking place. People's assumption is that any evidence left over they'd hear about it. Well, you don't. You have to actively look for it.

When I say the United States doesn't have a free news media, I mean they don't. They really don't.

I just get tired of "I don't see any evidence!" - well, no offense, it's because you're blind. Nothing anybody can say to you, or show you, would be "evidence" to you.

The result of people's ABSOLUTE denial to think the the US government wouldn't do a false flag (when they did certainly with the Gulf of Tonkin Incident) absolutely guarantees that this is going to happen over and over and over and fucking over and over and over again - until people stop putting up with it.

Think about this - the government's contention is 17 hijackers who briefly learned to fly a Cesna plane, took over a jet airliner and and flew them into two (probably easy to hit) buildings. That I can believe. But I can't believe that 1/2 hour later another jet airliner is flying into the most protected airspace in the nation, to hit the headquarters of of the defense branches, and no video evidence ever is found. This happened 1/2 hour after a KNOWN TERRORIST ATTACK, and CERTAINLY after the plane was known to be hijacked.

There's plenty of evidence, but you're blind to it.

I'm sure it's been pointed out to you multiple times that the Project for the New American Century called for unending war in the Middle East (starting there then expanding) in order to have the US dominate the world for the next century - but some sort of Pearl Harbor like event had to happen. Well, what luck - it did almost exactly 1 year later.

Who benefits?

I just get so sick of trying to convince people who after TWO DECADES don't smell anything wrong at all with this event. You've had two decades of people trying to point out the problems of the official story and it's still other people's responsibility to try to convince you that our lying, criminal government, is telling the truth this time - even though they IMMEDIATELY lied us into a war that had nothing to do with the event 1 year later.

They don't even fucking care if you believe them anymore. They don't care, they view people with ABSOLUTE contempt. I can see why they do. They can come up with the most ridiculous explanations for why they do this, and 1/2 the country defends whatever lie tooth and nail. The sheep doom us all on the farm.

911 was another Pearl Harbor to get us into war, a complete manipulation.

RC2006 says

911 was another Pearl Harbor to get us into war, a complete manipulation.

I could get behind that type of thinking at least for motivation, but then I would have to believe these same geniuses that pulled off this biggest plot in modern human history forgot to ship a few container loads of WMDs in Iraq? Seriously?

Once word got out that we didn't find sizeable WMD stockpiles in Iraq, it totally killed the pro-war movement, got Obama elected, troops pulled out of Iraq and reduced military spending.

socal2 says

I could get behind that type of thinking at least for motivation, but then I would have to believe these same geniuses that pulled off this biggest plot in modern human history forgot to ship a few container loads of WMDs in Iraq? Seriously?

They don't give a shit if they have credibility with you or not. They don't care.

They know nothing will be done when they get caught lying, using propaganda, violating the Geneva Conventions, violating the Constitution, keeping you locked up in your home for a year, stealing an election, lying the nation into a war, being corrupt.

They are slowly getting you used to, and comfortable with, complete criminality. They WANT you to know they can do whatever the fuck they want to do, and the population won't even COMPLAIN about it.

socal2 says

Once word got out that we didn't find sizeable WMD stockpiles in Iraq, it totally killed the pro-war movement, got Obama elected, troops pulled out of Iraq and reduced military spending.

No it didn't. Are you being sarcastic?

The anti-war movement DIED under Obama, Obama bombed 5 new nations - Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia and although troops were OFFICIALLY removed from Iraq, they were just replaced with private military contractors - i.e. mercenaries. Obama was as bad as Bush was.

richwicks says

NO. We do not know what the actual motivation is for it. We don't know.

I think we do need to know motivation for any of the 9/11 conspiracies to make sense.

Why kill thousands of people and risk being caught as one of the biggest mass murderers in history if they have nothing to gain?

9/11 happened under Bush's watch and the Garbage Liberal Media were going bonkers in 2003/04 making shit up (Dan Rather forged memos) to try and get Bush out of office. Even now, our Garbage Media would love to pin this on Bush and Republicans if there was a shred of reasonable evidence. Look how hard they are milking the January 6th selfie stick "riot" to try and censor and imprison Republicans.

Are we to really believe that all the Democrats that run our Media institutions are in on the cover up and unwilling to investigate?

socal2 says

RC2006 says

911 was another Pearl Harbor to get us into war, a complete manipulation.

I could get behind that type of thinking at least for motivation, but then I would have to believe these same geniuses that pulled off this biggest plot in modern human history forgot to ship a few container loads of WMDs in Iraq? Seriously?

Once word got out that we didn't find sizeable WMD stockpiles in Iraq, it totally killed the pro-war movement, got Obama elected, troops pulled out of Iraq and reduced military spending.

I look at it like when a nieghbor or city does work and then tries to get ok after damage is done because they don't care and know you would make a stink.

socal2 says

a complex plot with a billion moving parts like 9/11 without leaving a trace of evidence,

The evidence is there.

I suspect anyone that doesn't even want to look at the evidence is either covering for the coverup or is just willfully ignorant.

Here is a diagram of the official story for how both twin towers collapsed:

SO, the official story
"the planes crashed and took out some columns. The resultant fires weakened the rest of the columns causing the section above to crush the rest of the building". and it all came down at the acceleration of gravity collapsing into a cloud of dust and a pool of twisted and molten metal that burned for months. Thousands of people were vaporized.

Does anyone seriously believe this story?

Skip the buildings. And I guess I'm mostly right since no one will address it. How do you get enough people into a cockpit to remove 2 adult males that have to climb in to their seat? On FOUR planes? As this happened, 100+ on some of the planes passengers just chilled and thought nothing of it on 3 planes. Or were concerned and did nothing? Flight attendants? No one yelled help? Finding 3-4 humans willing to commit suicide per plane!?

Islam is bat shit crazy for sure. Nothing happened during the Trump years. Nothing. Obama and Bush I and II just bombed the fuck out of them. Why? It's been known for a while that we can be oil independent and actually export it. Question everything. There was something else going on and there's no doubt. I don't even look this shit up either. It's just obvious whether it's government, some weird syndicate, or a foreign country that 9/11 wasn't just Muslims doing their Muslim thing.

You have to account for the sequence of events. From the word go it was fishy as fuck. I personally believe the buildings collapsed on their own. But what difference does it make? You have 4 planes and 3 scenarios that are almost impossible without influence from something. The towers were somewhat easy targets for a plane, but these guys supposedly flew tiny, single engine planes for training. Come on?

Plot the timeline out and it doesn't make any sense before a building is even hit. I guess most here haven't been in a plane, cared to notice the cockpit configuration or would just be pussies like the passengers were on the 3 planes that did damage? For me that's where the narrative falls apart. There's no logical sequence of events prior to a building being hit.

WookieMan says

Finding 3-4 humans willing to commit suicide per plane!?

ROFL. You find that hard to believe? That's what muslim terrorists who kill themselves believe in. They are celebrated as heros within their groups. Blow yourself up, kill enemies to Islam and be rewarded in Allah's kingdom with virgins. Finding 3-4 willing to kill themselves for Allah is probably the easiest task on this entire attack. There are thousands of Islamic terrorists on this earth willing to do that.

Here, pls read before you post about it

https://www.livescience.com/6237-islamic-faith-promise-martyrs.html


" According to the religious text of Islam, male martyrs will receive 72 virgin maidens in paradise as a reward for their sacrifice."

Onvacation says

Does anyone seriously believe this story?

Of course I believe it. Have you ever seen a building that was just fine after getting hit by an airplane? To think that a building wont take heavy damage after getting hit by an airplane is as insane as predicting that Bitcoin will crash to 1.2k!

Bitcoin says

Of course I believe it. Have you ever seen a building that was just fine after getting hit by an airplane?

No, but I've only seen two buildings hit by a jet airliner which was built in 1973, which was designed to handle a jet airliner hitting it.

A lot of damage was caused after those 2 buildings collapsed, but there were TALLER buildings than WTC CLOSER to 1&2 (which didn't collapsed but were later demolished) - yet WTC 7 collapsed.

Bitcoin says

To think that a building wont take heavy damage after getting hit by an airplane is as insane as predicting that Bitcoin will crash to 1.2k!

Oh, bitcoin will crash to 0. It's unusable as a currency. Nobody fucking believes me though, so fuck it.

WookieMan says

Skip the buildings. And I guess I'm mostly right since no one will address it. How do you get enough people into a cockpit to remove 2 adult males that have to climb in to their seat? On FOUR planes? As this happened, 100+ on some of the planes passengers just chilled and thought nothing of it on 3 planes.

There are cockpit recordings. The Islamist fucks came right in and cut the pilots throats with box cutters from behind before the Pilots had a chance to do anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Xn9m1FodY

Here is video from the movie United 93.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q8eDgvxBWI

Unless you are sitting in First Class (as all of the hijackers were) there is not much you can see or do at the moment of the attack.

On top of that, there are dozens and dozens of calls and voice messages from the passengers calling loved ones saying they witnessed the Islamists storm the cockpits and kill the pilots.

There's a picture somewhere of the mud smudge in Pennsylvania titled: "If you think an airplane crashed here, you are an idiot." No fuselages, no significant debris, no body parts. However, there were perfectly intact boxcutters and unblemished ID's of the alleged 'hijackers' taken from the scene.

Bitcoin says

PaisleyPattern says

Here’s an idea

I've got an even better idea. Just read the smart comments by smart people from socal:

"socal2 says
You would think we would have some reasonable physical evidence or whistle blowers by now instead of the same crank "experts" making the same claims over the same video for the past 20 years."

Bitcoin, just check out the hole in the side of the Pentagon, the shape of the hole, the height off the ground, the amount of the debris that was left, and look into what it would take to fly a large jet airliner into the side of the building at that height, approaching the building over in urban environment, at jet airliner speed. If you still believe that a jet airliner crashed into the side of the Pentagon, then there’s no more point in me debating anything with you.

Also, no airplane hit the Pentagon. It was determined that it was impossible for a jetliner to perform the maneuver alleged, much less the suspicious complete lack of plane debris. Witnesses saw a small rocket with 'airliner' markings. A few bits from the rocket attempted to emulate plane parts, but even journalists at the scene commented that there was no airplane debris. The few cam pictures that weren't seized show at most a small blur and an explosion, no massive airliner.

9/11 was a multi-use false flag. The Pentagon explosions just happened to almost exclusively kill a group of auditors who were uncovering massive spending anomalies. The building 7 destroyed SEC lawsuits documentations pending, including Enron documents. 9/11 was even used to empty vaults of gold that were under NYC, but no word ever about who, why, or where it went.

The Pentagon incident was a complete sham. No debris, no video of a plane, etc.

The success of these massive false flags emanating from the original 'success' of the Kennedy assassination through 9/11 are probably why we are in the mess we are in today: Deep (Shallow) State finally emboldened to operate brazenly in clear light of day, with impunity and arrogance. The 'fuck you' bird finger to the American people is so blatant and obvious. "Hey, let's give 'em a fake pandemic and stolen Presidential election next, to show that we can, indeed, put a tomato plant into any office we choose!"

This is why I don't want to debate 9/11 beyond the fact that the official story of the destruction of the 3 WTC towers is so blatantly wrong.



When you go down the rabbit hole you'll end up with nuclear bombs, death rays, and holograms.

It doesn't matter. To paraphrase richwicks, The truth is not as important as realizing they are lying.

socal2 says

January 6th selfie stick "riot"

Lol, I have to remember that phrase.

Mockery is an excellent way to deflate the thing.

socal2 says

Are we to really believe that all the Democrats that run our Media institutions are in on the cover up and unwilling to investigate?

Actually, yes.

See this:

https://patrick.net/post/1338725/2021-04-07-the-elite-are-the-most-likely-to-censor

They know that their careers are toast if they dare to question The Narrative.

Bitcoin says

Finding 3-4 willing to kill themselves for Allah is probably the easiest task on this entire attack. There are thousands of Islamic terrorists on this earth willing to do that.

After 9/11 I asked a Pakistani co-worker if Muslims were really that crazy. He said "Only 10% of them."

Then I pointed out that 10% of Pakistan's population of 200M is 20M crazy Muslims.

He started getting mad at me and I stopped.

richwicks says

which was designed to handle a jet airliner hitting it

Another good point. I remember reading that as well. Both those buildings were supposed to be able to survive this exact event.