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Understanding Partisan Division

By Patrick follow Patrick   2020 Jul 30, 12:12pm 1,977 views   49 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Partisan division is fundamental to human thought and cannot be ended. It can however, be understood and mitigated.

By "partisan" I mean belonging to parties with distinct shibboleths of belonging:

- Democrats say "dreamers", Republicans say "children of illegals"
- Republicans tend to be believing Christians, Democrats not.
- Democrats tend to eat elite foods such as arugula, Republicans not.
- Democrats say "jobs Americans don't want", Republicans say "jobs where illegals drove down wages"

Democrats tend to avoid directly saying what they really mean.
BLM is a self-justifying way for white liberals to say "I hate Republicans. They scare me."

Republicans tend to go for conspiracy theories.

Most political division is visceral and not rational, directly due to one's genetic and economic position in life:

1. Women tend to "think of the children" more more than men do.
2. Men tend to care much more about the integrity of national borders than women do.
3. People who are losing their manual labor jobs to cheap Chinese labor or illegal Mexican labor care much more about immigration than knowledge workers do.
4. People who are "educated" (much of which is propaganda for the superiority of "educated" people) tend to look down on those who do not have credentials.
5. People who have been in the military tend to approve of hierarchy and the strict application of laws.
6. People in big cities tend to approve of government wealth redistribution programs.
7. Race alone is a good predictor of party affiliation.
8. The young tend to be liberal, the old tend to be conservative.

You could probably add up the tendencies predicted by each aspect of someone's existence and come up with a 95% correct prediction of their political affiliation.

You think you're in control of your political choices, but you are not. You are carried along on the currents of your genetics and your experiences. Maybe it's possible to be rational and look at it all honestly. Maybe not.

When you know how the psychology of partisan division works, you can:
1. know what the right thing to say is in a given situation or
2. know when there is literally nothing you can say

For the best introductions I have ever read, see:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ and
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

A site that tries to at least collect similar numbers of articles from both sides: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/
A site that points out media blind spots on right and left: https://web.ground.news/ (click "Blindspot Report:Your weekly news spotlight" top center)

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10   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 11:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Another moral dilemma. Do you let them control and chill ordinary speech, or do you risk your job?


I intend to use those words as necessary and simply apologize. 90% of the IT guys don't give a shit, only the non-coder types do.

Call it "bureaucratic resistance"
11   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:28am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Seems like a good solution. I wish you protection from the haters.
12   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 11:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

My hope is eventually it will be "Cool" to use the "Old Words" between those in the know, and for the "Squares" use whatever new terms they are using.

Gives it a "Cache" and makes the establishment order words look "Stodgy".
13   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 11:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

And later, you can be proud that you held out while so much of the world let themselves get caught up in temporary insanity.
14   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 12:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

That's a good example of deliberately inflaming partisan division there.

I'm guilty of it too, but trying to be better.
15   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 6:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I miss the good old days when it was all about the Federal Reserve.
16   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 6:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

We are all the food for rage-memes now.

To recognize them clearly is to defeat them in yourself, but they will exist in others, and continue to attack.
17   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 31, 6:22pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Misc says
Booger says
Thread title suggested that this was going to be about WW2 Yugoslavia.


A third of US households didn't make their July housing payment. Give it time.


The rent is too high. The powers that be have seen to that. Rents are driving up house prices too.

https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/
18   PMack   ignore (0)   2020 Jul 31, 7:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

it's all a fucking distraction folks, a shell-game for the masses.
19   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 31, 7:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Shibboleth, thanks Pat.
20   Misc   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 2, 4:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Tough to say if anything is outta whack by that graph. Over time the size of dwellings increased as well and more amenities were added to apartment complexes. Also, the number of public housing complexes per capita decreased and for a stretch of time the total numbers of public housing units diminished. All that could cause the median rent to escalate.
21   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 2, 7:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Misc says
https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/


The problem is that as rents rose, income did not keep pace. The profits went to the powers that be, the rent slaves keep getting a smaller piece of the pie. The owners keep getting bigger portfolios and consolidation of control.

When you factor in that in 1960 most households were supported by a single earner, and today most households require at least 2 wage slaves sometimes working more than one job each, the disparity between 1960 and today becomes even more clear. The American dream morphed into wage slavery. When the bulk of your income for at least 30 years goes to pay some landlord/bankster you are a slave.



Graph from the same article cited above.
22   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 1:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Added this to the OP:

Most political division is visceral and not rational, directly due to one's genetic and economic position in life:

1. Women tend do care much more about "the children" than men do.
2. Men tend to care much more about the integrity of national borders than women do.
3. People who are losing their manual labor jobs to cheap Chinese labor or illegal Mexican labor care much more about immigration than knowledge workers do.
4. People are "educated", much of which is propaganda for the superiority of "educated" people, tend to look down on those who do not have credentials.
5. People who have been in the military tend to approve of hierarchy and the strict application of laws.
6. People in big cities tend to approve of government wealth redistribution programs.

In fact, I bet you could simply add up the tendencies predicted by each aspect of someone's existence and come up with a 95% correct prediction of their political affiliation.
23   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Aug 10, 1:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

When I’ve discussed Covid 19, I’ve tried very hard to focus only on government statements as well as raw data.

Today on a totally unrelated forum someone pointed out a lady from a reality show who through her own stupidity(well documented) got stuck during the epidemic in another country. She finally gets to come back to the US and people on this particular forum(90% female and not all American) starts lambasting her for not quarantining and even suggesting it was child abuse to return to her 6 year old.

I pointed out that children are not particularly at risk for illness due to corona virus and immediately the hysteria began. Multiple posters said I was 100 or 1000 percent wrong. I posted the CDC statement regarding children not being at significant risk and people started posting with all kinds of irrational chow meow ranging from 100,000 kids got covid(arguing against a point I never made) to I’m the kind of person that makes the US screwed up. I said fine, you people think you know more than cdc...whatevs. Eventually i had to delete my comments as the Karen’s were just getting way out of hand.

And the thing is, how do you discuss that matter with anyone under those circumstances. They refuse to believe facts and go on the warpath against anyone that doesn’t conform to their thinking.
24   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 2:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
how do you discuss that matter with anyone under those circumstances. They refuse to believe facts and go on the warpath against anyone that doesn’t conform to their thinking.


@FuckTheMainstreamMedia

I sympathize. My life is like that. It may be one of those cases where there is nothing at all you could discuss with them.

They are demanding that you conform and obey. They will accept nothing else. They do not want to hear rational arguments, no matter how polite and persuasive.

They are probably doing it out of deep-seated fear, whipped up by the media.

But at least we can discuss this kind of partisan division here. That's something. Maybe we will come to some useful insights.
25   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 10, 8:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
But at least we can discuss this kind of partisan division here. That's something. Maybe we will come to some useful insights.


Political parties serve many purposes and uses.

A politician can use the party to forge a career and acquire wealth and fame.

A wealthy person can use/influence a political party to further their agenda such as making rules that favor their own interests and/or hinder their competition.

A special interest group can use/influence a political party to further their agenda such as making rules that favor their own interests and/or hinder their competition.

So at end of day the partisan divide is about power. The power to further an agenda for personal gain of some sort. Even this great nation which was founded on the ideals of self determination would not exist if it were not for the fact that some wealthy and influential people decided that they would be even more wealthy if England did not have power over them.

Now days the partisan divide is more of a result of indoctrination than anything else. Academia, Media, and Corporate culture promotes a narrative with many followers. That narrative is in near perfect contradiction to Christian Traditions, historical norms, and objective analysis of data.

For example, if racial bigotry is such a problem how is it that a black person was elected president for two terms, a black man and a Hispanic woman were nominated and approved for the Supreme Court by presidents and senators from BOTH parties, and as every year passes the country’s demographics become more and more diverse and less and less “European?” And yet the left trumpets a narrative that racism is the worst problem we face and every inequality in this country stems from racism.

Right wingers on the other hand tend to ignore the fact that corporations have been able to use the government to consolidate control over our lives to the point where we are dependent on them for our Careers, health care, housing, food and other necessities and therefore the corporations have time and again persuaded the government to bail them out when corporations make mistakes and fail to prepare for losses. Essentially corporations have used government to privatize most gains while socializing any losses.

In both examples above partisans are indoctrinated to ignore objective analysis and that is exactly what the powers that be want. They want us all to be uneducated, and fighting against one another because as long as the people continue to argue amongst themselves they cannot unite to take the power back from the elites that have enslaved us.
26   Onvacation   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 10, 9:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

PeopleUnited says
Now days the partisan divide is more of a result of indoctrination than anything else. Academia, Media, and Corporate culture promotes a narrative with many followers. That narrative is in near perfect contradiction to Christian Traditions, historical norms, and objective analysis of data.

Yep.
27   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Sep 2, 10:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

.

The Democrats worship government and a central state. That is why it is a religion or cult.

Go back and watch Richard Burton in the movie 1984 when he said "Humanity is the Party".

Just like AntiFa is consuming all of humanity in places like Portland and Seattle as it makes its way to other towns and cities.

.
28   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 2, 12:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

If https://articlesofunity.org/ can get Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw to run, I will vote for that ticket.

Trump has been a good president, but the population is definitely divided about him. I want more unity, as long as they will at least talk about the harms China and illegals.
29   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 2, 12:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I want more unity


Instead of unity all you will get is more disunity. Let us say that they actually 'win'. What happens for Unity? The Dems will go after the new POTUS just like they did to Trump. Remember how they didn't give a rat's ass about Trump until he dared defeat Shrillary? Thereafter it was Hyper TDS every time, all the time. This will be the same thing only it will be called UDS and the rage will be x 11, I think.

And this time the pissed off Trumpers will join forces with the Democrats to definitely impeach and possibly even remove both the Unity's POTUS and VPOTUS. They will have the votes in both the House and Senate to do so.

But it won't happen. Because of how the math works for third parties, they won't even get a single EC vote.

All the Unity party will be is a protest vote, just like the Greens and Libertarians are. Hell, it has been commented seriously more than once that the Gs & Ls should dissolve as parties and form non-profit corps that work within the Ds and Rs. Because they will have more power to effect change that way.

So Unity has a better shot of actually going somewhere by trying to take over a smashed Democrat party after this November and running with that, much like BJ Bill did with the Democrat Leadership Council (remember those guys?) back in '92 or Trump took over the GOP (still a work in progress, but he took over enough of it to gain power at least).
30   Fortwaynemobile   ignore (3)   2020 Sep 2, 12:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Left basically is globohomo corporations. Rich fucks who want to replace working Americans with cheap foreigners. So they make up bullshit terms to feel good about fucking Americans over... terms like equity and diversity. Constantly promote pedo and gay shit, because they want to fuck everything that moves with no moral boundaries.

They are fucking assholes.
31   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 2, 1:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

That sound like an accurate summary to me.

They want to replace poor Americans (especially poor white people, whom they think of as being all Republican) with poor Mexicans, or any other poor non-white people. Not only does it satisfy their hatred, it's profitable!

And yes, I think they promote pedo and gay stuff because they don't like being told that anything they like to do is wrong, even if it harms children or efficiently spreads a fatal disease.
32   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Sep 2, 1:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

TrumpingTits says
Patrick says
I want more unity


Instead of unity all you will get is more disunity.

Outside my comment about the audio from the site in another comment, this sounds like an awful plan. I don't think it matters anyway as they'd need to get on all 50 states ballots and I'm not 100% certain that's a possibility anymore. And anyone signing on to that ticket at the 11th hour is doing it purely for financial gain knowing they cannot win and just want publicity for a future book or something. And TT is right, it just adds more voices to an already divisive election. 3rd voice won't help.

Reality is the Democrats just fucked up and didn't come up with someone that could move independents. Biden is a loser. They went too far left and the divisiveness is ultimately necessary to bring these idiots closer to the center again and bring forth actual candidates that don't pander to 3% of the electorate.
33   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 2, 1:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
they'd need to get on all 50 states ballots and I'm not 100% certain that's a possibility anymore. And anyone signing on to that ticket at the 11th hour is doing it purely for financial gain


@WookieMan

The plan is to make a deal with the Greens or Libertarians to run (probably) Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw. They are already on the ballot.

I'm pretty sure it's not for financial gain since they don't ask for money. And if you watch the original videos with Prof Weinstein, you can see he looks quite sincere and geeky.

I think https://articlesofunity.org/ has a chance, and they're not in it for the money.
34   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Sep 2, 1:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I think they have a chance, and they're not in it for the money.

I'm voting Trump. Trump is in it for the money. Biden is in it for the money. And even if you say you're not in it for money like Bernie, you still get a nice pension and healthcare for your "service." My wife was President of a prominent organization. Involved all unpaid work, but got her fuck tons of opportunity/networking through the position. She did it for the money 100%.

No one ever has run for POTUS to help you or me. Some may help you or me to some extent in the process, but it's always been about money. I don't mind Tulsi or Dan, but come on, it's super obvious they're both positioning to make money on other endeavors. I'd rather Trump just smash Biden, he's a lame duck so someone else can come out after this whole thing. Biden cannot be allowed to be POTUS. That's a vote for Harris and that scares the fuck out of me looking at CA.
35   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 2, 1:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
Reality is the Democrats just fucked up and didn't come up with someone that could move independents. Biden is a loser. They went too far left and the divisiveness is ultimately necessary to bring these idiots closer to the center again and bring forth actual candidates that don't pander to 3% of the electorate.


Better summary than I could ever give. Bravo.
36   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 2, 2:03pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
he's a lame duck so someone else can come out after this whole thing. Biden cannot be allowed to be POTUS. That's a vote for Harris and that scares the fuck out of me looking at CA.


Yes. The whole "this is about Harris becoming POTUS" point is one that is super-obvious but even us politico-junkies often do not think of it except in hindsight because we get lost in the weeds of other details, like Bidentia. But the HarrisPOTUS thing is going to be shitty choice of the vast majority of voters out there. The choice that will be at the forefront of their minds when they actually vote.
37   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 3, 9:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I was not very impressed with Unity2020's online talk last night.

They are just too naive. They should have expected to be banned by Twitter. It's like they are only now discovering how corrupt the left is, and how willing to stifle all voices that don't toe the Democrat party line. They don't actually have agreement from the Greens or Libertarians to get space on the ballot, or any response from Tulsi or Dan yet.

So I'm back to 100% for Trump.
38   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Sep 3, 10:39am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
They are just too naive. They should have expected to be banned by Twitter. It's like they are only now discovering how corrupt the left is, and how willing to stifle all voices that don't toe the Democrat party line. They don't actually have agreement from the Greens or Libertarians to get space on the ballot, or any response from Tulsi or Dan yet.

I'm almost positive that it's too late (legally) in a state like IL to even get on the ballot realistically. If they truly wanted to win, they'd have to win a big blue state, otherwise the movement is dead in the water. IL would be one of the easier big blues to move for a centrist party. That ship has sailed I'm pretty sure.

I'm already getting set to do work to get on the ballot for March elections here in IL. It's not super complicated, but this shit is more paperwork than just saying you want to run for a position. Even dog catcher. I don't even have to get that many signatures for the position (unpaid mind you) and it's still a pain to get this shit done, so I start early.
39   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 3, 2:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I was not very impressed with Unity2020's online talk last night.

They are just too naive. They should have expected to be banned by Twitter. It's like they are only now discovering how corrupt the left is, and how willing to stifle all voices that don't toe the Democrat party line. They don't actually have agreement from the Greens or Libertarians to get space on the ballot, or any response from Tulsi or Dan yet.

So I'm back to 100% for Trump.


Yeaaah...sounds like a bunch of grifting going on there. Like all those consultants on Biden's campaign. They can't all be idiots like you state. Just enough useful idiots for the grifters to use.
40   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Sep 3, 2:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
They are just too naive. They should have expected to be banned by Twitter. It's like they are only now discovering how corrupt the left is, and how willing to stifle all voices that don't toe the Democrat party line. They don't actually have agreement from the Greens or Libertarians to get space on the ballot, or any response from Tulsi or Dan yet.


Because of the enthusiasm Gap, Big Tech/Media knows they'll only take votes from Dems, the ones that see the party sliding into radical Leftism but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump. So they censor it.
41   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 3, 5:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

TrumpingTits says
Yeaaah...sounds like a bunch of grifting going on there.


I don't think it's grifting, they seem too naive for that.

NoCoupForYou says
Because of the enthusiasm Gap, Big Tech/Media knows they'll only take votes from Dems, the ones that see the party sliding into radical Leftism but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump. So they censor it.





That makes sense.

Trump voters are WAY more devoted to Trump than any Democrat is to Biden.
42   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 4, 4:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
They don't actually have agreement from the Greens or Libertarians to get space on the ballot, or any response from Tulsi or Dan yet.

Tulsi is not running for re-electlon in her Congressional district. This likely would be her best shot at the Presidency or VP position. I'll likely go down with the ship, but I did need a stiff drink after Bret's ballot access video. That's the plan!?
43   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 4, 5:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I've lost faith in Unity2020.

They just don't have a clear answers for a lot of things: ballot, candidates, at what point they give up, how exactly this "draws equally from both sides"...
44   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 4, 6:13pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I've lost faith in Unity2020.

They just don't have a clear answers for a lot of things: ballot, candidates, at what point they give up, how exactly this "draws equally from both sides"...


Are they hitting you up to donate?
If you see that anywhere, it means that they are grifting.
45   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 4, 9:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Nope, no one asks for a penny.

That's why I think they are sincere.
46   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Sep 5, 11:49am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
That's why I think they are sincere.

That Weinstein guy isn't from the video. Gotta trust my gut on certain things. He looks like and talks like he's straight out of Portland. Walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it's a duck. The guy is an intellectual moron.
47   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 5, 12:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
Patrick says
That's why I think they are sincere.

That Weinstein guy isn't from the video. Gotta trust my gut on certain things. He looks like and talks like he's straight out of Portland. Walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it's a duck. The guy is an intellectual moron.


He's the professor from Evergreen who refused to go along with their "no white people at work day". So it's not an ordinary BLM-sucking liberal if he is one.

In March 2017 he wrote a letter to Evergreen faculty, objecting to a change in the college's decades-old tradition of observing a "Day of Absence" during which minority students and faculty would voluntarily stay away from campus to highlight their contributions to the college.[11] The announced change would flip the traditional event, asking white participants to attend an off-campus program to talk about race issues while the on-campus program was designated for participating people of color.[12] Weinstein said this established a dangerous precedent.

There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and underappreciated roles....and a group encouraging another group to go away. The first is a forceful call to consciousness, which is, of course, crippling to the logic of oppression. The second is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself.
— Bret Weinstein in a message to a campus email list[13]


I don't think he's a moron, but I do think he is naive. He didn't understand the degree of censorship on Twitter, and so was surprised when they banned him for some bogus reason.
48   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Sep 18, 4:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Well, @Patrick ,

If you haven't seen The Social Dilemma, you should.

They make a very strong case for social media (as it works now) and associated AI customization of ones news feeds based off that being the leading cause of polarization of partisan division.

Their number one argument: The timing. Exactly when SM started to take off in 2007 or so till now, this and other pathologies (teenager rates of engaging in self-harm, avoid risk-taking, suicides, etc) started to increase almost exactly in tempo with this.

Obvious to you, I and others in the tech industry perhaps...but they collated the data and slamdunked it in a scary total. Very good for non-techies but for all of us.

The irony is that Netflix has been awful lately because their producers have been driving by this very phenomenon while at the same time they aired this film. Amazing.
49   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Sep 18, 5:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I'll watch it if I don't have to pay Netflix.

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