patrick.net

They said it won’t be added as income or count against you. Basically free money.

It’ll only reduce amount if you make good money.

Well, the purpose of these payments is to support the economy now. Consider it an interest-free loan instead of a handout.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised they did it this way instead of simply dropping money from the fucking helicopters.

Fortwaynemobile says

They said it won’t be added as income or count against you. Basically free money.

It’ll only reduce amount if you make good money.

You’re both right and wrong. It’s not income, it’s reduced tax credit for 2020.

Every trillion the government spends equals $3,000 for every man woman and child in the country. The 2
trillion "stimulus" will cost each citizen $6,000 dollars.

But don't worry, no one has to pay it back...

@Shaman thanks for actually reading the damn law.

Most of our laws seem deliberately overcomplicated to prevent the public from understanding them.

BTW, non-filers will get the money but will never have to give it back, IIRC. So for some it IS a handout.

Shaman says

Fortwaynemobile says

They said it won’t be added as income or count against you. Basically free money.

It’ll only reduce amount if you make good money.

You’re both right and wrong. It’s not income, it’s reduced tax credit for 2020.

So one of the programs is completely free money, 10k advance comes with 0 strings attached. PPP I’m not sure though.

Sorry, this is not true. I have looked at this claim and it is not factual. More than one source, including a local news piece, say that the stimulus check will not reduce 2020 and future refunds. I don't know if it is just income which would be added to your taxable income, or if it is considered a nontaxable grant, but it is NOT a loan.

Malcolm says

Sorry, this is not true. I have looked at this claim and it is not factual. More than one source, including a local news piece, say that the stimulus check will not reduce 2020 and future refunds. I don't know if it is just income which would be added to your taxable income, or if it is considered a nontaxable grant, but it is NOT a loan.

Read the linked bills and tell me that you can’t understand them, then. Your local news is wrong. This bill spells it out fairly clearly: your stimulus will be deducted from the amount of tax credits you get for FY 2020.

TEOTWAWKI says

BTW, non-filers will get the money but will never have to give it back, IIRC. So for some it IS a handout.

For many. If you don't pay federal taxes, by default it is 100% a hand out. Which is something like 40-50% of the country. Which the other 50-60% will pay back regardless of the current law at some point.

Some people will get zero 🙋‍♂️ and have the luxury of paying it back for you. Isn't that rich.... Enjoy.

#OpenThisMotherFuckerUp #IDon'tFearDeathLikeAHugePussy

If you don’t file, or didn’t in either 2018 or 2019, you won’t get a stimulus check.
If you don’t file in 2020, you won’t get a refund if you’re owed one.
If you don’t pay federal taxes because your income is too low, you still WILL get a refund because you will get tax CREDITS which will go in the + column and you will get a refund based on the amount of those credits!
However, the amount of those CREDITS in 2020 will be REDUCED by the the amount of the STIMULUS you receive now! So basically, you’re getting an advance on your refund check in April 2021.
It’s not free money, it’s an advance on your next refund check.

Maybe this is better explanation.

https://money-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/money.com/stimulus-check-advance-tax-refund/?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&=true&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15867956780820&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fmoney.com%2Fstimulus-check-advance-tax-refund%2F

Read the linked bills and tell me that you can’t understand them, then. Your local news is wrong. This bill spells it out fairly clearly: your stimulus will be deducted from the amount of tax credits you get for FY 2020.

OK, I'll check it out, but it might just be worded that it is a refundable tax credit for 2020 that the check is actually an advance of a credit they are giving you.

Shaman says

Read the linked bills and tell me that you can’t understand them, then. Your local news is wrong. This bill spells it out fairly clearly: your stimulus will be deducted from the amount of tax credits you get for FY 2020.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-stimulus-check/ Exactly as I pictured it. It is a prepaid refund off of a tax credit that they are giving you. It will NOT affect your future taxes. It is simply a mechanism to give out a grant.

Shaman says

If you don’t file, or didn’t in either 2018 or 2019, you won’t get a stimulus check.

You will:

Maybe perhaps I'm just a moron, but I'm betting and hoping the ecconomy opens back up, long before I get a thousand dollars, to cover my thousands of dollars monthly spread.

Also that little money might help this month, do you want to depend on Nancy Pelosi to help you out next month? If you do, then you're either an illegal alien that hasn't paid a cent of tax ever. Or a dreamer idiot. Because that's who the Liberals are concerned about now. They would actually debit your bank account to pay them more.

Thanks @rc2006
I think your source may be correct.
Reading subsection (f) says that:
‘‘(f) ADVANCE REFUNDS AND CREDITS.—
23 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Subject to paragraph (5),
24 each individual who was an eligible individual for
25 such individual’s first taxable year beginning in

O:\HEN\HEN20312.xml [file 1 of 2]
S.L.C.
147
1 2019 shall be treated as having made a payment
2 against the tax imposed by chapter 1 for such tax-
3 able year in an amount equal to the advance refund
4 amount for such taxable year

Ok so I’m reading that people who get the stimulus are going to be credited with the amount of the stimulus as if they’d payed a tax on it, but then that credit will be deducted, so it’s a wash. This is a pretty arcane way of making the stimulus money tax free, but I now believe that was the intention.
Guess I’m no lawyer.

By the way, this is how I would implement a BMI. It would be a $10,000 advance on a tax credit that begins to disappear after someone earns more than $10,000 in earnings and starts earning taxable income.

This would eliminate almost every entitlement program; grants, scholarships, welfare, Endowment for the Arts, EDD, Unemployment, ALL of it and more, including the agencies themselves would vanish instantly.

Malcolm says

This would eliminate almost every entitlement program,\; grants, scholarships, welfare, Endowment for the Arts, EDD, Unemployment, ALL of it and more, including the agencies themselves would vanish instantly

And this is why it will never happen.

TEOTWAWKI says

Malcolm says

This would eliminate almost every entitlement program,\; grants, scholarships, welfare, Endowment for the Arts, EDD, Unemployment, ALL of it and more, including the agencies themselves would vanish instantly

And this is why it will never happen.

That is an excellent point. Bureaucracy always lobbies in favor of itself, and politicians with sway over various parts of the bureaucracy never ever vote to decrease their influence and power.

TEOTWAWKI says

Malcolm says

This would eliminate almost every entitlement program,\; grants, scholarships, welfare, Endowment for the Arts, EDD, Unemployment, ALL of it and more, including the agencies themselves would vanish instantly

And this is why it will never happen.

Yup. It's why it's impossible to reduce military spending as well. You'd create a recession alone by dumping some of these things. Maybe a depression if you went hard on military spending.

TEOTWAWKI says

Ok so I’m reading that people who get the stimulus are going to be credited with the amount of the stimulus as if they’d payed a tax on it, but then that credit will be deducted, so it’s a wash. This is a pretty arcane way of making the stimulus money tax free, but I now believe that was the intention.
Guess I’m no lawyer.

It's not really arcane if you think about it. It is a beautifully simple and robust system to efficiently disperse funds from the Federal Government to its citizens. I am very hopeful that it will serve as a model for seamlessly incorporating a basic minimum income into the tax code. This pandemic has led to what I hope will be a very interesting experiment where the government realizes that 80% of what it does is pure waste.

While I'm on the subject, a BMI also eliminates all need for child support enforcement. Dependent children would get a BMI which would go to whichever parent has legal custody, or to a married couple with children.

There are a ton more ways a BMI has social implications, some of which I am writing here for the first time. Many crimes would not happen if people had a basic income, so imagine the cost saving per $40,000 a year inmate, who at most costs $10,000 as a regular citizen.

It also represents the purest form of capitalism since some people would of course waste it, like they do already, but others will pay for a school with minimal debt, if any, while some people might go and buy a piece of machinery and start a business.

It's something that I have been giving a lot of thought to, even before Andrew Yang proposed it. I don't even know what his plan was.

The need for farm subsidies and disability programs go away as well.

To put it in simpler terms, the stimulus check is an advance on a refund that everyone is eligible for throughout 2020. You can prove your eligibility by submitting or 2018 or 2019 taxes, thereby receiving the advance, but ultimately your eligibility will be determined by your 2020 income.

So if you qualified according to 2019 income and got your stimulus, then in 2020 you made too much to actually qualify, the government will claw it back.

At least that's my understanding of it.

$10,000 X 360,000,000 people= $3,600,000,000,000
That’s 3.6 TRILLION each year whereas our federal budget clocks in at 4.8 trillion this year. So we’d have 1.2 trillion left to fund every other program including defense, and that’s overspending by a trillion a year.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying it. Maybe it would be more like an alternative minimum tax in reverse. So the more you make the less it applies. It would mean that muslim families who immigrate here with two wives and ten kids would get $120,000 of free government money to live on per year.
What’s the chances they become integrated citizens?
What’s the chances that ghetto people do anything but breed more of their own?

UBI is the stupidest idea EVAH!

TEOTWAWKI says

UBI is the stupidest idea EVAH!

Yup. Just work or if unable get SSI, downsize, get section 8, food stamps, etc. The system isn't perfect, but 99% of people are just better off working if they're able. The goal should be to NOT have these entitlements paying out much, let alone a UBI. It would be disastrous.

WookieMan says

TEOTWAWKI says

UBI is the stupidest idea EVAH!

Yup. Just work or if unable get SSI, downsize, get section 8, food stamps, etc. The system isn't perfect, but 99% of people are just better off working if they're able. The goal should be to NOT have these entitlements paying out much, let alone a UBI. It would be disastrous.

And I actually don't think UBI is a awful idea. It's the results from it. If people are less incentivized to work, they won't work. We cannot be unproductive and sustain as a society because where the hell does the money come from?