patrick.net

All of the above.

Any additional I’m missing?

Where is the proof that illegal immigration is a net drain?
Perhaps the Left feels that brave, hard-working immigrants willing to sacrifice almost everything to bring their families to America and work hard are worth more than mullet-headed racists who contribute nothing and blame their own shitty lives on black, Jews and immigrants.
Basically, I think we should carpet bomb the Deplorables and relocate all the poor people we have fucked over into the empty space.

Some like cheap labor. No benefits, low pay. Just a notch above indentured servitude.

Expat01 says

Where is the proof that illegal immigration is a net drain?

Gee - let's just look at California. Despite having some of the highest taxes and richest people in the country, California has:

- Highest poverty rate in the country
- Highest income inequality rate in the country
- Lowest education scores
- Poorest rated infrastructure
- Hospitals and ER's clogged with uninsured illegals
- Massive homeless camps

California has one of the highest legal and illegal immigrant populations in the country. So why don't you provide the "proof" that having all these sanctuary cities and massive illegal immigrant populations is doing good things for California?

My close friend is a physician who works at a county hospital here in the Silicon Valley.

He tells me that approximately half of his patients are illegal immigrants without insurance that he by law must treat.

Expat01 says

racists

I think a great deal of it is simply racism against white people, as illustrated very well in that comment.

The irony, of course, is that the left masks and justifies its overt and bitter racism with accusations of racism, lol.

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

And if I may go on, it's an extremely old story of jealousy. It's basically Cain and Abel, or Joseph and his brothers, etc.

Jealousy -> hatred -> unfounded accusations, or worse

Expat01 says

Where is the proof that illegal immigration is a net drain?
Perhaps the Left feels that brave, hard-working immigrants willing to sacrifice almost everything to bring their families to America and work hard are worth more than mullet-headed racists who contribute nothing and blame their own shitty lives on black, Jews and immigrants.
Basically, I think we should carpet bomb the Deplorables and relocate all the poor people we have fucked over into the empty space.

I agree that hard-working immigrants who work hard are worth more than mullet-headed racists who contribute nothing and blame their own shitty lives on black, Jews and immigrants. And also worth more than lazy generational welfare blacks that contribute nothing and blame their own shitty lives on racism. Also the people who are working the system with their fake SS disability claims. The question is though, how do you get rid of these 3 groups?

It's not democrat: establishment republicans did nothing against illegal immigration when they had a majority in congress. Anyone remembers what Bush proposals on immigration looked like?

It's the same also in Europe.

There is only one reason that animate our elites: they want to grow the population as a way to grow the economy.

As for democrats on the ground, believe or not, some people genuinely feel like helping their fellow human beings that are in difficult situations.

Expat01 says

Where is the proof that illegal immigration is a net drain?

In the fucking studies on the fucking subject, duh.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's not democrat: establishment republicans did nothing against illegal immigration when they had a majority in congress.

Yes. It's all political theatre.

BayArea says

I’m trying to wrap my head around the soft stance the left takes on immigration. Which is it??

f) The left is not actually soft on illegal immigration. The right wants to paint the problem as the fault of the left.

By being reality base,the left falls in to the political trap that so many fall for. Many on the right are sort of in a super state, between falling for the bullshit versus promoting it. This is an intellectual (stance I see constantly on the right). The extreme version is promoting the idea that Michelle Obama is a dude.

Reality:: Quotes from individual democrats about borders are irrelevant to the typical centrist democrat. Yes you can find some stupid remark to project on to all democrats. Congratulations.

Reality: Democrats have been behind the build up and continuation of Mexican border security for decades, and especially during the Obama years.

Reality: Gullible right wingers fall for Trumps strategy to claim the issue as the property of the right. How ? By taking something that everyone is for border security, and saying he wants a thirty foot wall and so on. He can't say he's for a continuation of provably what has already been done in a bipartisan way. He has to be so extreme as to be opposed be cause it's ridiculous, and not going to happen. THat's the strategy for saying "it's my issue." Smart, but dishonest.

Reality: His promotion of the big beautiful wall has probably put a sense of urgency on tens of thousands that feel like if they don't do it soon, they might never be able to immigrate to America. But even this "crisis" is a level we have seen before

Reality: The left probably is softer on immigrants that have been here a long time and put down roots, and are hard working tax payers with children. What has been bipartisan in the past, is giving them a path to citizenship if not outright amnesty.

Reality: Painting the left soft on immigration, suits the purposes of TRump Cucks, as justifying Trump's leadership, or worse they actually buy the idea that Trump is s competant.

Heraclitusstudent says

As for democrats on the ground, believe or not, some people genuinely feel like helping their fellow human beings that are in difficult situations.

No they don't as they make life miserable for hard working citizens in difficult situations so net net they harm society. And worse they do that while signaling virtue and posturing themselves as the good guys while fucking over their own country men. A really awful trait.

Hugolas_Madurez says

Expat01 says

Where is the proof that illegal immigration is a net drain?

In the fucking studies on the fucking subject, duh.

Studies are usually biased. You can cites statistics to back any point of view you want.

I don't know the answer with certainty. But One thing I know for sure. Going way back, we have measured economic success as economic growth.

Growth in GDP is the gold standard for telling how well our economy is doing.

Do you think that growth in our population (or not) has any impact on the growth of our economy ?

So put on your thinking caps and think real hard to figure out why the powers that be have allowed illegal immigration to continue as much as it has.

They haven't necessarily intentionally promoted or allowed it, but they have not outright gone way further spending energy and dollars stopping it.

DO I need to break this down further for you ?

THe rest is political theatre, for which the right is much more gullible and easy to manipulate.

marcus says

REality: His promotion of the big beautiful wall has probably put a sense of urgency on tens of thousands that feel like if they don't do it soon, they might never be able to immigrate to AMerica

marcus says

REality: THe left probably is softer on immigants

marcus says

REality: Painting the left soft on immigration, suits the purposes of TRump Cucks,

Contradiction.

THat quoting part of a sentence is really sophisticated. I guess the fact that I didn't say what your suggesting is the coolest part for you.

Thus it's understandable why Trump's lying is a feature rather than a bug for you guys.

marcus says

Studies are usually biased. You can cites statistics to back any point of view you want.

... except when we're talking about AGW, of course. ROTFLMAO.

marcus says

I didn't say what your suggesting

What are you trying to say?

Patrick says

I think a great deal of it is simply racism against white people, as illustrated very well in that comment.

The irony, of course, is that the left masks and justifies its overt and bitter racism with accusations of racism, lol.

I wish I could say that watching this kind of mental gymnastics was fun.

WE should worry far more about losing a middle class than about what percentage of the country is "white". THe numbers are already baked in, as to how much smaller a percentage of the country will be "white," a few generations from now. (quotation marks becasue Mexicans are more or less white, but not anglo white but majority of European in most of their backgrounds).

I could care less, becasue good people are good people. IF educated well, and allowed a lot of opportunities to be middle class, then ango or not, or non white in some other way, is fucking irrelevant.

(isn't it sad how I lie to myself to hide my hate for myself and my whiteness ?)

Heraclitusstudent says

There is only one reason that animate our elites: they want to grow the population as a way to grow the economy.

Yes, I've been reading this thread backwards, and I just said the same thing. This is the truth.

WE need to figure out how to be economically well in an economy that is not growing. But the financial system is built on growth.

Hugolas_Madurez says

... except when we're talking about AGW, of course. ROTFLMAO

No, even there you can cite statistics or cherry pick, to believe what you want to believe. Sometimes the people on one side of the argument use very transparent and obviously dishonest reasoning to get to their desired point of view. Case in point the AGW deniers. I wish I could laugh at it.

Just know, that there are actually humans that objective and honest with themselves enough to look at all the data objectively and only then form an opinion about what's true, or what's probably true.

Government soaking of the populace is increasing while services, infrastructure, and safety are decreasing. When the tide of services goes out, and everybody realizes they live in some version of Rio De Janeiro or Mumbai ghettos instead of the USA, it will be too late. California isn't becoming a harmonious land of Anglicized immigrants. It is a Beirut of competing, antagonistic subcultures and languages. The agitprop media portrays a wonderland of melting pot harmony. The reality is they want to cut your throat and take what you have with impunity.

In California (even the LibbyFucks are starting to see it and, of course, howling at what they have wrought), increasing crime is simply ignored as the way of the world. Police don't even enforce parole violators or repeat felons. Crime statistics are falsified or abandoned because there is no longer any way to make these look good or put the lipstick on the pig. It's catch, release, and the criminals are very knowledgeable now that there is limited enforcement and they are free to engage in vandalism, robbery, drug sales and burglary. Gated neighborhoods and private security for those who can afford it are inevitable. No more going from place to place with presumed safety. New schools are crammed to the gills with illegals, and parents who want their children educated and not terrorized, downgraded, or brainwashed MUST send their kids to private schools. In the Bay Area, the phenomenon of news camera crews being mugged where they cover incidents NEVER used to happen. Now, it is common. In places like Stockton, where the city went bankrupt and private security is necessary, vandals and thieves just drive trucks around, even into gated neighborhoods, and steal anything they can lay their hands on. In Santa Cruz, mail theft and car break ins are becoming epidemic and are migrating towards Capitola and Aptos, the enclave areas. Rolling drug franchises with stolen cars and stolen registration stickers are common. I know one older man who said his registration stickers have been stolen twice in the last year in a nice area that just a few years ago was outside of the usual crime corridor.

The Dems are failing in their primary mission of securing our borders and our safety. The LibbyFuck Royalty are telling us we as citizens should be accepting less and less in more dangerous, crowded societies while they get more and more.

I notice that some older people with means are just fleeing to better enclaves in Oregon and Washington The rich LibbyFucks take their shit on California, then just go elsewhere, or live in bell jars of protected wealth. However, everybody has to drive and go out in public. In California urban areas, this has become increasingly dangerous, stressful and obnoxious. It's like a suicide crazy ride into some brick wall.

marcus says

Sometimes the people on one side of the argument use very transparent and obviously dishonest reasoning to get to their desired point of view

This exactly what happens with the cheerleaders of illegal immigration. "Pay no attention to the overcrowded schools and overrun ERs, disregard the studies because they are biased - just BELIEVE that illegal immigration is GOOD for you and your country, because BELIEVE they are more honest and hardworking people than you and in some invisible ways contribute much more than they take from you"

Ceffer says

increasing crime is simply ignored as the way of the world. Police don't even enforce parole violators or repeat felons. Crime statistics are falsified or abandoned because there is no longer any way to make these look good or put the lipstick on the pig.

Very colorful and dishonest portrayal. Especially about crime.

But I get it, you guys have a story to tell if you're going to reelect Trump.

Hugolas_Madurez says

BELIEVE they are more honest and hardworking people than you and in some invisible ways contribute much more than they take from you"

Is that what the statue of liberty was about. Were we supposed to believe that immigrants were better than us in every way in order to accept them ?

Is that what Jesus taught us about our brothers and sisters ?

Yes, I will always believe public service union apparatchiks with government paychecks in hand who are versed in the politics of denial, pass the buck, evasion, dissimulation and sanctimony.

Same ole, same ole. Generate a government bureaucracy, it eventually ceases to do it's job but it continues to lobby for itself and it's grifty, grafty demands. It becomes a beast of monetary consumption, self lobbying and political survival.

Where's that bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale again?

Hugolas_Madurez says

cheerleaders of illegal immigration

There are no cheerleaders for illegal immigration.

There are also no people that think abortion is awesome. They promote some weird lies in that right wing bubble.

I miss the days when we could almost agree on the facts. Listen to a debate between William F Buckley and Noam Chomsky and they will dissagree on facts in minor ways, but that's not at the heart of their disagreements. People were operating with the same set of facts back then.

Now it's just political theater, with right wingers trying to out do each other with their straw man lies, and bullshit distractions.

marcus says

Hugolas_Madurez says

cheerleaders of illegal immigration

There are no cheerleaders for illegal immigration.

There are also no people that think abortion is awesome. They promote some weird lies in that right wing bubble.
.

You are wrong. A skit, but almost always based in some degree of reality. The left absolutely wants illegal immigrants...many of whom advocate for open borders. There are also many who naively believe abortion is fantastic. You can see the commentary frequently and the social media aspect...the "lets video our abortions" is plenty proof.

www.youtube.com/embed/SHG0ezLiVGc


BTW, you deserve credit for continuing to advocate your point of view and not becoming a bomb thrower for the most part. Every other left leaning person on the site who dislikes President Trump has willfully imploded by now. I think I've been unduly mean towards you in the past.

CovfefeButDeadly says

There are no cheerleaders for illegal immigration.

Well, I'm not sure how much of an advocate makes a cheerleader. But, there's certainly plenty of people who support it, and support the current inaction, allowing it to continue.

I work w/ many lefties, and around the time of the the caravan ordeal last year, during discussions of illegal immigration, I've heard them say things like:

- "illegal immigration is good for us. who else would work the farm jobs? we would be screwed w/o them!!"
(I reminded the person that, if we raised farm wages, which would naturally occur, americans would absolutely work those jobs. you wouldnt pick berries for $500 an hr? I would. Plus, automation would fill some of the gap. Plus, had we not made it a low-status job by handing it over to illegals in the first place, the stigma against it wouldnt be there, and relatively lower wages would be enough to compel people to work the job. she then scowled and miffed.).

- " its actually good for us. we get cheap produce, and our taxes would go up w/o them, because they pay more into the system than they take out."
(5% true - many of the illegals pay into it, but most never draw SS. but that's just SS. economics is flat out complicated, and the cost upon the total economy is not easily measured when using "napkin math". you need to consider all factors.)

- "all the people in the caravan should be let in. they're just looking for a better life. I cant understand how people can be so evil and not want them to have a better life? whats wrong with wanting a better life? we shouldnt have borders."
(I reminded her that 700 million ppl around the world have expressed desire to immigrate to the usa. if anything more than a small fraction of that actually showed up, this country would be in ruins. therefore, you must limit how many get in, and so you must choose who gets in. why should we choose the caravan over the law and process abiding citizens who followed our application process, and are on the wait list? once you show people you can skip the paperwork and just walk on over, more, and more, and more will follow. )

CovfefeButDeadly says

marcus says

Hugolas_Madurez says

cheerleaders of illegal immigration

There are no cheerleaders for illegal immigration.

There are also no people that think abortion is awesome. They promote some weird lies in that right wing bubble.
.

You are wrong. A skit, but almost always based in some degree of reality. The left absolutely wants illegal immigrants...many of whom advocate for open borders. There are also many who naively believe abortion is fantastic. You can see the commentary frequently and the social media aspect...the "lets video our abortions" is plenty proof.

www.youtube.com/embed/SHG0ezLiVGc


BTW, you deserve credit for continuing to advocate your point of view and not becoming a bomb thrower for th...

Agreed. But I also wonder who on the left Marcus talks to who does not advocate for illegal immigration. 80%+ of the current left/Dems are open borders! no human is illegal! screechers.

marcus says

I miss the days when we could almost agree on the facts. .

Now it's just political theater, with right wingers trying to out do each other with their straw man lies, and bullshit distractions.

I agree about how disappointing it is that we have become so politically divisive. I think maybe much of it is due to people becoming polarized, to the point where they stop watching news and info sources which have a mix of left and right propaganda. It results in the person seeing years of political events unfold, and everything is explained away from the same 1 sided story, causing the person to lose more and more objectivity, and gain more and more bias.

Do you truly believe that right wingers are more politically dishonest than left wingers?

marcus says

Crime statistics are falsified or abandoned because there is no longer any way to make these look good or put the lipstick on the pig.

Very colorful and dishonest portrayal. Especially about crime.

Have you tried to file a police reoort lately?

Here is more data for confused Expat.

*California set to become first state to offer health insurance to some illegal immigrants*
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/447660-california-set-to-be-first-state-to-offer-health-insurance-to-some-adult

We can't fill our potholes or even keep shit off the streets of our major cities, but we can find tens of millions of dollars to spend on illegal aliens' healthcare?

How much does it cost each year to imprison them?

*One in five US prison inmates is a 'criminal alien'*
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/407312-one-in-five-us-prison-inmates-is-a-criminal-alien

Our schools are overwhelmed
Social safety nets drained
Public services drained too

We financially can’t afford millions of illegals without throwing millions of Americans into poverty to spread the wealth. This both reduces wages and increases poverty here in California.

Left are clueless.

marcus says

Ceffer says

increasing crime is simply ignored as the way of the world. Police don't even enforce parole violators or repeat felons. Crime statistics are falsified or abandoned because there is no longer any way to make these look good or put the lipstick on the pig.

Very colorful and dishonest portrayal. Especially about crime.

But I get it, you guys have a story to tell if you're going to reelect Trump.

Wrong.
Prop 47 pretty much destroyed law and order in urban California. Any offense that is deemed minor, such as breaking car windows and stealing things from them, shoplifting with impunity, and other forms of thievery isn’t prosecuted and the perpetrators aren’t usually even arrested. They know this and keep their crime under $1000 per victim to stay in the “free crime” zone of the law. It’s fucked.

BayArea says

Any additional I’m missing?

Virtue signaling. It some social circles, it's impossible to express any opinion or take any action about mass migration other than full-fledge support for open-borders. After living this way for years, people actually begin to believe it and vote accordingly.

If you live and work in silicon valley, you'll notice the jaw-droppingly-stupid ideas of otherwise intelligent co-workers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-become-first-state-extend-132010832.html

"California was poised Monday to become the first state to provide health care coverage to young, low-income adults living in the country illegally after legislative leaders provided a thumbs-up to Gov. Gavin Newsom's $98 million plan targeting almost 100,000 low-income adults."

-----------------

You just got to attract more people.

Misery loves company.

Left is hell bent on equal sharing of misery these days.

Heraclitusstudent says

You just got to attract more people.