patrick.net

Goran_K says

Nothing would be better than Saudi and Turkey shooting at each other, with a little ISIS and Syria sprinkled on top. It's about time they spent their money killing each other than killing Americans.

Maybe you should look at a map some time. There is the small matter of Iraq and Syria being between them. The saudi's have a handful of DF3 chinese cruise missiles that can't hit the broad side of a continent that could reach turkey, but when they are gone that's it. Neither have enough bomber capacity to do shit even if they could overfly syria and iraq. What would they be shooting?

Then there is the small matter of turkey being a Nato country that the US is treaty bound to defend from attacks.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The good news is that the militant Muslim Princes that financed 9/11 are also MbS' enemies, so he will torture them anyway, and use bonesaws on those responsible while they are still alive.I say let MbS flay their skin with 100 lashes until they pass out, wait for them to regain consciousness and do it again and again for weeks on end until they die. That's much more effective and just than..

and who are these militant princes that financed 9/11 and are mbs's enemies? another non existent list we will never see.

bob2356 says

With 80% of saudi's under 25, that have a degree in islmaic studies, lacking any quantifications/skills to make a living at all that are totally dependent on oil money welfare

And stupid, lazy, violent. A total waste of Space.

bob2356 says

All MBS is doing with his "liberalizations" is trying to delay the fall of the house of saud.

I think the 'reason' for "liberalizations" is that they understand they have maybe 15 yrs of selling oil in front of them.

Peak oil is about to fall on them. Plus in any case the world will move decisively toward electric cars during these 15 yrs.

After that they're down to selling dates and camels.

bob2356 says

and who are these militant princes that financed 9/11 and are mbs's enemies? another non existent list we will never see.

Did you tell us what Sanctions Obama imposed on Saudi Arabia for executing all those gays and witches yet? And why he rewarded Iran for torturing and executing ditto with the Iran Deal?

You're great at demanding answers, bad at providing any.

bob2356 says

I notice stopping funding for terrorism isn't on the list. Nor will it ever be; All MBS is doing with his "liberalizations" is trying to delay the fall of the house of saud. With 80% of saudi's under 25, that have a degree in islmaic studies, lacking any quantifications/skills to make a living at all that are totally dependent on oil money welfare to live the oil money drying up day of reckoning is in sight for the royal family. . Like putin brutal internal political repression and playing up external enemies boogeymen is the only option to survive.

Now do The Mullocracy of Iran

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Did you tell us what Sanctions Obama imposed on Saudi Arabia for executing all those gays and witches yet? And why he rewarded Iran for torturing and executing ditto with the Iran Deal?

Please please stop embarrassing yourself with this. When a government arrests someone, has a trial, then executes them it's called a legal system. It may be a bad legal system. It may be a legal system many people disagree with. But it's accepted internationally as a normal function of government. When a country sends 15 goons to another country to kill someone it's called murder. In case you haven't looked at the news in a long time murder is always news worthy no matter where it happens.

This is basic government 101 stuff.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You're great at demanding answers, bad at providing any.

I;m not the one that keeps claiming to have non existent lists of names. .You made the claims, you back them up.

bob2356 says

When a country sends 15 goons to another country to kill someone it's called murder. In case you haven't looked at the news in a long time murder is always news worthy no matter where it happens.

Only this murder is newsworthy. Thousands of murders the world over every single day, and only this one gets the front page news day after day.

Heraclitusstudent says

Peak oil is about to fall on them.

Again?

Strategist says

Only this murder is newsworthy. Thousands of murders the world over every single day, and only this one gets the front page news day after day.

Well, it was exceptionally brutal and blatant, and apparently ordered by the head of a country we are "friends" with. That is pretty unusual.

We should be grateful that Saudi crimes are getting looked into instead of simply excused or swept under the rug, like they did with 9/11.

bob2356 says

Please please stop embarrassing yourself with this. When a government arrests someone, has a trial, then executes them it's called a legal system. It may be a bad legal system. It may be a legal system many people disagree with. But it's accepted internationally as a normal function of government. When a country sends 15 goons to another country to kill someone it's called murder. In case you haven't looked at the news in a long time murder is always news worthy no matter where it happens.

So it's okay to torture and execute Gays and Witches, so long as there is a Trial in an Authoritarian Country like SA and Iran. It doesn't merit any pressure or sanctions.

The lengths you go to find a means to excuse the different standards being applied is pretty embarrassing. I'm blushing on your behalf.

Didn't the USSR have "Trials"? I heard it was a bad legal system... that many people "Disagree" with.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

bob2356 says

Please please stop embarrassing yourself with this. When a government arrests someone, has a trial, then executes them it's called a legal system. It may be a bad legal system. It may be a legal system many people disagree with. But it's accepted internationally as a normal function of government. When a country sends 15 goons to another country to kill someone it's called murder. In case you haven't looked at the news in a long time murder is always news worthy no matter where it happens.

So it's okay to torture and execute Gays and Witches, so long as there is a Trial in an Authoritarian Country like SA and Iran. It doesn't merit any pressure or sanctions.

Have you read the Koran? It is OK. Allah says so.

On behalf of all these ignorant infidels, I apologize on their behalf. They were not born with the intelligence to figure out the greatness of Islamic laws. It takes a lot of intelligence to know when a woman should be stoned to death.

Strategist says

Only this murder is newsworthy. Thousands of murders the world over every single day, and only this one gets the front page news day after day.

Plenty of murders make front page news day after day. The russian poisoning of Litvinenko was front page in the news around the world for weeks without 3 countries and leaders making the story bigger and bigger every day. Do you suppose the press reported russia poisoning Litvinenko on the front page because they were upset with MBS making KSA liberal ? ROFLOL.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

So it's okay to torture and execute Gays and Witches, so long as there is a Trial in an Authoritarian Country like SA and Iran. It doesn't merit any pressure or sanctions.

Nice job with that strawman. Keep on making shit up and claiming I said it.. The lengths you go to to create strawmen and misdirection are impressive.

I said It isn't front page news, I made no comment on condoning or condemning. Governments around the world torture and/or kill people all the time for all kinds of reasons under the cloak of their legal systems. Including the USA. Where is your outrage at the USA scooping up people (including innocent people that could have easily been checked out but weren't) then sending them to be tortured or killed in places like egypt and jordan. That was without a trial of any kind. People have been held in Gitmo for 16 years now without a trial. What pressure and sanctions should be put on the USA for doing this? By the standards of many countries this is barbarism. I guess you never heard the one about glass houses and throwing stones.

The lengths you go to find a means to excuse the different standards being applied is pretty embarrassing. I'm blushing on your behalf

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

So it's okay to torture and execute Gays and Witches, so long as there is a Trial in an Authoritarian Country like SA and Iran

or the USA and UK. You do remember that sodomy was a felony in the USA until the last law was struck down in 1962 don't you?. With it being a capital crime until south carolina being the last state to do away with the death penalty for sodomy in 1873. So yea it was ok to torture and execute gays in the good old USA for a long time. The UK had the same laws (the USA took them from the UK) The last execution for sodomy in the UK took place on 27 November 1835 when James Pratt and John Smith were hanged at Newgate.

The lengths you go to find a means to excuse the different standards being applied is pretty embarrassing. I'm blushing on your behalf

1835 is the same as 2018. Thanks bob

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Only this murder is newsworthy. Thousands of murders the world over every single day, and only this one gets the front page news day after day.

Plenty of murders make front page news day after day. The russian poisoning of Litvinenko was front page in the news around the world for weeks without 3 countries and leaders making the story bigger and bigger every day. Do you suppose the press reported russia poisoning Litvinenko on the front page because they were upset with MBS making KSA liberal ? ROFLOL.

This Kashoggi guy was not murdered in a foreign country by his government as in the case of Russia. He was murdered on Saudi soil.
An embassy is considered foreign soil.
They made a big thing out of something that happens in Islamic countries every day. Stoning a 16 yearly girl that eloped is by far, more horrible than this murder.

bob2356 says

So yea it was ok to torture and execute gays in the good old USA for a long time.

Yes, it WAS OK in the good old days, until secular beliefs civilized the religious beliefs. Guess that makes it OK for Islamic countries to continue with their barbaric practices in todays world.
Good thinking, Bob. I hereby nominate you for the Patnet Peace Prize.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

bob2356 says

and who are these militant princes that financed 9/11 and are mbs's enemies? another non existent list we will never see.

Did you tell us what Sanctions Obama imposed on Saudi Arabia for executing all those gays and witches yet? And why he rewarded Iran for torturing and executing ditto with the Iran Deal?

You're great at demanding answers, bad at providing any.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

So yea it was ok to torture and execute gays in the good old USA for a long time.

Yes, it WAS OK in the good old days, until secular beliefs civilized the religious beliefs. Guess that makes it OK for Islamic countries to continue with their barbaric practices in todays world.
Good thinking, Bob. I hereby nominate you for the Patnet Peace Prize.

Well, that's our Bob, Mr "There's no London University, it's University of London. BAHAHAHA!"

It's time to remind ourselves of the 'Death of a Princess' thread on KSA ...

http://patrick.net/post/1306834/2017-05-30-saudi-arabia-s-death-of-a-princess-needs-its-own-thread

I remember hearing about the whole 'Death of a Princess' controversy as a kid so it kinda surprised me to find that almost no one knew anything about it, post 9/11, given the fact that most of the hijackers were Saudi.

Think about it, the House of Saud asked for the removal of the ambassador of Britain and tried economic sanctions against the UK to repress a movie about an actual event, which they didn't deny.

Instead, it was turned into another Islamic victimhood story ...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/princess/reflect/harvard.html

Excerpt: "Prince Sultan also said that the aim of the film was to insult Islam. Much of Saudi criticism of the film was directed towards what was called its portrayal of Islam as a harsh, insensitive religion, since the princess was depicted as having been summarily executed without a confession or a trial. The severity of punishment and the speed with which the princess was executed put doubts in the minds of viewers as to the fairness of Koranic justice. Summary execution is not the norm in Saudi Arabia."

Well, it's good to know that there was due process involved, where a person was accused of adultery, when she was actually single. How about being more candor like saying that they were pissed that she didn't marry into the low gene pool extended family and thus, was executed for treason against the House of Saud? At least that would be honest.

You see ...

Treason = High Crime and Misdemeanor

Single Woman Dating an (unrelated) Muslim guy = Normal person (who doesn't want a kid with birth defects)

And since Romeo and Juliet were planning on getting married, it wouldn't even be adultery in the future.

Rin says

Excerpt: "Prince Sultan also said that the aim of the film was to insult Islam. Much of Saudi criticism of the film was directed towards what was called its portrayal of Islam as a harsh, insensitive religion

I clearly remember the controversy that film created, even though I never saw it.
Hey Prince Sultan, your fucked up religion goes well beyond "harsh, insensitive" We will insult it, humiliate it, and destroy it. Just wait and see.

Strategist says

Yes, it WAS OK in the good old days, until secular beliefs civilized the religious beliefs. Guess that makes it OK for Islamic countries to continue with their barbaric practices in todays world.

So that is 1 vote in favor of the USA torturing and executing gays/witches.. Secular beliefs civilized religious beliefs since the Iraq war where the US shipped people off to be tortured and murdered? Damn want to post some links about that, I missed it in the news. So I take it you approve of this.

Try to follow the conversation. The question is if a country following it's laws for whatever purpose is front page newsworthy or not.

Strategist says

Good thinking, Bob. I hereby nominate you for the Patnet Peace Prize.

Another poster who can't figure out that there was neither approval nor condemnation.

Strategist says

This Kashoggi guy was not murdered in a foreign country by his government as in the case of Russia. He was murdered on Saudi soil.
An embassy is considered foreign soil.

ROFLOL. You guys are going to amazing lengths to avoid admitting that the fair hair boy MBS fucked up big time and managed to show .the new boss is the same as the old boss. They tried and convicted him right there in the embassy? Damn that is amazing. When did you learn this? Want to post some links to the story, I can't find it.

Still waiting for all the MBS cheerleaders to talk about all the radical madras and mosques MBS has shut down. Or the new restrictions on money going out to terrorists. As in none, zero, zippo.

CBOEtrader says

1835 is the same as 2018. Thanks bob

Vote 2 in favor of the US torturing and executing gays/witches. Also in favor of people being shipped off for torture and murder by the US as in the 2000's I assume.
.

bob2356 says

Nice job with that strawman. Keep on making shit up and claiming I said it.. The lengths you go to to create strawmen and misdirection are impressive.

Bob, it's not a strawman, nor is it Whataboutery. It's a direct regurgitation of your own words:

It's okay to execute Gays and Witches - and apparently unmarried Princesses for adultery - if you have a Trial based on Shari'a Law and Islamism. But not Muslim Brotherhood shills who are trying to pick up paperwork to divorce their wife in Saudi Arabia - so they only have to pay 130 days support.

"Get your hands out of your pockets, you dirty old man".

www.youtube.com/embed/SKOCmBXrVY8

Trivia the infamous Judge Freisler was one of those Nazis who had been been a Bolshevik prior to switching.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

It's okay to execute Gays and Witches - and apparently unmarried Princesses for adultery - if you have a Trial based on Shari'a Law and Islamism.

Dude, even in an ordinary Banana Republic, where a set of parents disapprove of their daughter marrying someone else, the worst that would happen is that they'd be killed off, clandestinely (via paid hit men), and then, the bodies would be discovered months or years later.

Here, the Govt of Saudi actually exacted a trial of adultery on a single woman & her lover, which was really her fiance (and thus, her future husband), and had both of them whacked in a public execution. That's barbarism, even beyond the norms of Banana Republicanism.

I remember that case. There was a documentary about it, called "death of a princess".

Patrick says

I remember that case. There was a documentary about it, called "death of a princess".

It was the first real expose on what the culture of Arabia, make that Islam, was really about, long before 9/11.

If anything, nothing going on today should be a surprise to anyone. Realize, Paul Freeman was in that film, and that's what's got him his casting in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' as Belloq, because Spielberg was impressed by him.

Her name was Mishaal bint Fahd bin Mohammed Al Saud. Her grandfather the king ordered her shot to death, and after that was done the guy she was alleged to have committed "adultery" with was publicly decapitated by a member of her family.

curious2 says

Her name was Mishaal bint Fahd bin Mohammed Al Saud. Her grandfather the king ordered her shot to death, and after that was done the guy she was alleged to have committed "adultery" with was publicly decapitated by a member of her family.

If this happened in America, there would be no one left.

Strategist says

curious2 says

Her name was Mishaal bint Fahd bin Mohammed Al Saud. Her grandfather the king ordered her shot to death, and after that was done the guy she was alleged to have committed "adultery" with was publicly decapitated by a member of her family.

If this happened in America, there would be no one left.

This is true because angry parents wouldn't have to hire a hit man, instead, they'd just call the Sharia Police and tell 'em that their single daughter was guilty of adultery with another single guy (and one of the same religion and ethnicity). Wow! The USA would a "Killing Field', much like Cambodia back in the mid-70s.

Seriously, and you think that America was experiencing some racial divide, KSA is a lot worse!

Rin says

This is true because angry parents wouldn't have to hire a hit man, instead, they'd just call the Sharia Police and tell 'em that their single daughter was guilty of adultery with another single guy (and one of the same religion and ethnicity). Wow! The USA would a "Killing Field', much like Cambodia back in the mid-70s.

Seriously, and you think that America was experiencing some racial divide, KSA is a lot worse!

Here's a 911 Call ...

911 Operator: Sharia 911, how can we help you?

Parent: Help! Help! My daughter is about to run away with her boyfriend.

911 Operator: Ok, stay calm ... is she running away with a Christian, Jew, or Hindu?

Parent: Actually no, he's a Muslim.

911 Operator: Hmm ... is he some Sudanese fellow? Or perhaps, Turkish?

Parent: Well no, he's also an Arab.

911 Operator: That's a tough one ... did you say that she was single?

Parent: Well sort of, but I promised her to my in-bred 2nd cousin.

911 Operator: Ah, so she's promised! Let me check ... yes, that's a grandfathered adultery clause. So yes, we'll send in Abu Bakr & his 40 rapists/thugs to pick 'em up.

Parent: Oh thank you!

911 Operator: Hey no problem, that's what friends are for.

Rin says

angry parents

do not usually resort to child sacrifice, unless they are Muslim. Islam is the last major religion to command child sacrifice. We see it across the Islamic world, and wherever Muslims migrate. Jews and Christians do not practice child sacrifice, because Leviticus prohibits child sacrifice specifically and the new testament prohibits killing generally. Jews and Christians might disown their children, even mourn them as if dead, but only Muslims resort to actually murdering them.

curious2 says

Rin says

angry parents

do not usually resort to child sacrifice, unless they are Muslim. Islam is the last major religion to command child sacrifice. We see it across the Islamic world, and wherever Muslims migrate. Jews and Christians do not practice child sacrifice, because Leviticus prohibits child sacrifice specifically and the new testament prohibits killing generally. Jews and Christians might disown their children, even mourn them as if dead, but only Muslims resort to actually murdering them.

I guess I was referring to really angry parents, you know, the psychopathic ones.

It is perfectly permissible for a parent to kill his own child under Islamic law:

And in the classic manual of Islamic law, Umdat as-Salik wa ‘Uddat an-Nasik, we read:

Qisas is obligatory on whoever kills a person purely intentionally and aggressively (that is, not in self-defense). But qisas is not applicable on children or the insane under any circumstances, nor is it applicable on a Muslim for killing a kafir, nor on a free man for killing a slave, nor on a dhimmi for killing an apostate, nor on a father or a mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their child, or their child’s children.

Narrated Suraqah bin Malik bin [Ju'shum]: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) judged that the son is to suffer retaliation for [killing] his father, but the father is not to suffer retaliation for [killing] his son."

Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
Reference : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1399 In-book reference : Book 16, Hadith 15 English translation : Vol. 1, Book 14, Hadith 1399

It was narrated from Ibn 'Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “A father should not be killed for his son.”

Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
English reference : Vol. 3, Book 21, Hadith 2661 Arabic reference : Book 21, Hadith 2763

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: 'The Hudud are not carried in the Masjid, and the father is not killed for the son.'

https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/36852/ruling-on-parents-killing-their-child

Qisas means "revenge".

BTW, a Muslim may murder any non-Muslim (kafir) at any time, and that's just fine and dandy according to Islamic law:

Patrick says

nor is it applicable on a Muslim for killing a kafir

Patrick says

It is perfectly permissible for a parent to kill his own child under Islamic law:

Honor killings. Only Islam can convince it's followers to kill their child for honor. What a fucked up religion.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

bob2356 says

Nice job with that strawman. Keep on making shit up and claiming I said it.. The lengths you go to to create strawmen and misdirection are impressive.

Bob, it's not a strawman, nor is it Whataboutery. It's a direct regurgitation of your own words:

It's okay to execute Gays and Witches - and apparently unmarried Princesses for adultery - if you have a Trial based on Shari'a Law and Islamism. But not Muslim Brotherhood shills who are trying to pick up paperwork to divorce their wife in Saudi Arabia - so they only have to pay 130 days support.

i

My direct words were it's not front page news when someone is tried and executed according to a nations laws. The rest of the shit you just keep making up. Show one single place where I said anything was "ok" or not "ok" since obviously my statement I'm not offering my opinion on whether I condone or condemn was outside of you comprehension. .

Regurgitate is when you chew a bunch of stuff up, mix it up in your stomach. then throw it up all in a jumbled mess. So you are correct that you regurgitated.

Did you catch KSA's story of the day today? Well we sort of, kind of, may have, maybe planned it. But it was an accident that we planned it. It's like listening to a 5 year old explaining how the lamp got knocked off the table and broken. ROFLOL.

@bob2356 got a link for that?

bob2356 says

My direct words were it's not front page news when someone is tried and executed according to a nations laws. The rest of the shit you just keep making up. Show one single place where I said anything was "ok" or not "ok"

It's not always what you say, but also what you don't say that counts.
eg This Pakistani Anjem in London, never said he supports Osama, but flatly refuses to condemn him. What does that tell you?
Bob, you are such a slow learner. Please focus.