patrick.net

Sniper says

Malcolm says

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.

Deaths may have dropped but violent crimes and attacks went UP because people couldn't defend themselves. Is getting a violent beating by a thug acceptable because the thug wasn't shot by the homeowner and lived?

Malcolm says

AK47s and AR15s, wannabe M16s are glorified semi automatic rifles. They are just for looks,

So, what's the point? Since when does outside looks change the operation of a semi-auto? That means nothing in this argument.

Are we going to ban a certain model of firearms because they "look" scary??

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?





The a...

Although your point about function is valid, which of those two guns has the pontential to kill more people before reload?

The most lawful and safest times in US History were the Wild West days. Didn't anyone else learn that in history class?

You are putting a $ price on a life? Isn’t that exactly the thing we all hate when corporations do that errc?

Sniper says

So, what's the point? Since when does outside looks change the operation of a semi-auto? That means nothing in this argument.

Are we going to ban a certain model of firearms because they "look" scary??

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?

Again, I don't know why people are remaking my point, but the picture helps me to make the point. Yes, both guns function exactly the same way. In fact, when I was much younger, in the 1990s, I had a Ruger .22, it looked just like the top picture. I even had a clip that held 30 rounds. So you can even say they both have the same killing power. I am not a Democrat by the way, and I own a Browning 9mm pistol. I even owned an SKS in those days. The point I was making was that the gun in the top is not glamorized. The bottom one "looks scarier" and more "badass." The rifle at the top is a couple of hundred dollars, the rifle on the bottom is 4 figures, yet they do the same thing. Do I really need more proof to show that one is a glamorized weapon, making it sexy? I have never said anywhere that we need to control certain types of guns. I am now seeing a pattern though due to over-prescribed medications that I believe are causing mental illness not curing people of something that could just be a phase in their life.

I am aware that it is a crime to lie on the questionnaire. Those questions keep most people honest, but a background check is a check, it is not the honor system. I see no reason for the Trump administration to prohibit mental health records from showing up on the background check. That's like saying, felonies shouldn't show up, but it is a crime to lie and say you haven't been convicted of any. BTW, lying can be relative, especially in grey areas of marijuana and prescription drugs. Those policies can change from administration to administration.

Having said that, if people continue to criticize me without actually reading my points they will simply be ignored, because that is trolling.

errc says

Benefits

Legal gun ownership is directly correlated to lower crime rates.

Therefore the "gun nuts" have a positive impact on our economy.

Your entire premise is a farce.

Malcolm says

over-prescribed medications that I believe are causing mental illness

Bingo.

This is a cultural problem. First you have to separate the mass shooting phenomenon from gun violence at large. Regarding these mass shootings... We typically see young, lost, confused, mentally ill boys who are doped up w anti depressants DESIGNED TO INHIBIT FEELINGS. If you are already a lost soul, imagine having little to no empathy and no self reflection due to these drugs fucking w your natural emotions.

Jordan Peterson also discusses how our anti-male and anti-white culture will naturally lead to pathologies amongst the most vulnerable in those groups.

...and voila... We have the mass shooting phenomenon.

Stop brainwashing children w this SJW anti-white, anti-male idiocy and stop giving children anti depressants and speed. The problem would be largely solved.

But nah...it's a lot easier to judge them dern recheck gun nuts than reflect on the failures of our pathological society.

errc says

There’s nothing safer then arming a society made up of the same kind of halfwits that fill the pews on Sundays, in hopes of destroying our once great Republic

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

CBOEtrader says

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

Religion is a race?

I have also considered how this anti-white male phenomenon would play into young adolescent white boys’ mental development.

One small spill over benefit of Trump being elected is that it is kind of becoming hip to be white again.

It’s funny, if you visit China, there is a whole cosmetic surgery industry geared towards making them look more western. Another interesting thing that I noticed in China, and verified it after I returned, is that very few policemen actually carry guns in China, there’s not a political point I’m making, I just found it interesting.

CajunSteve says

CBOEtrader says

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

Religion is a race?

If you'd rather call it simple bigotry, im ok w that....but yes, by the way the word had been used in our society, judging entire groups of people as less than yourself is generally referred to as racism.

CBOEtrader says

If you'd rather call it simple bigotry, im ok w that....but yes, by the way the word had been used in our society, judging entire groups of people as less than yourself is generally referred to as racism.

So most of Pat.net is racist by way of their views of liberals then?

CajunSteve says

So most of Pat.net is racist by way of their views of liberals then?

partisanship politics turns both sides bigoted, so perhaps. show me an example

Sniper says

Malcolm says

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.

Deaths may have dropped but violent crimes and attacks went UP because people couldn't defend themselves. Is getting a violent beating by a thug acceptable because the thug wasn't shot by the homeowner and lived?

Your proof is missing somehow.

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero. quod erat demonstrandum

anon_4480e says

partisanship politics turns both sides bigoted, so perhaps. show me an example

I can, but is it really necessary? Look through almost any thread on here and there will be at least a half dozen memes that judge liberals as less than themselves.

Sniper says

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?

One shoots 5 bullets and then must be reloaded one bullet at a time. The other shoots 30 bullets (up to 75 with extended mags) and can be reloaded almost instantly by simply clicking in another mag . Which is better for killing lots of people fast? How many less people/children would have died in florida, ct, tx, nv etc., etc., etc. if the shooter had to put in 5 bullets one a time after the first 5 shots?

Are you really such a crappy shot that you need to shoot multiple 30 round mags in the woods to hit something? I never had any trouble hunting with my old bolt action winchester model 70 featherweight. Although I will say my hunting partners rem 700 was more accurate.

BayArea says

Although your point about function is valid, which of those two guns has the pontential to kill more people before reload?

Malcolm says

The rifle at the top is a couple of hundred dollars, the rifle on the bottom is 4 figures, yet they do the same thing. Do I really need more proof to show that one is a glamorized weapon, making it sexy?

bob2356 says

One shoots 5 bullets and then must be reloaded one bullet at a time. The other shoots 30 bullets

There is the blind Liberal, non supported narrative to all the nonsense about gun control.

That picture is the SAME Ruger 10/22 22LR rifle, the bottom one just has a different outside skin. They both take the SAME magazines, either a 10 round, 15 round or 30 round.

This is proof the liberals have NO IDEA what they're screetching about with "Gun Control". To them, the "picture" is more dangerous then the actual hardware.

bob2356 says

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero. quod erat demonstrandum

The violent crime rate in Australia shot up across the board after the gun ban. In the years afterwards the crime rate of the entire western world fell, including in the US where gun ownership rates rose. Australia's violent crime rates also fell, but by nowhere near as much.

The results of the Australia gun ban are murky at best.

Malcolm says

One small spill over benefit of Trump being elected is that it is kind of becoming hip to be white again.

"Its ok to be white" signs at schools were met w media coverage and police reports cause of them dern racists. Yes, according to anti-trumpers, allowing white people to feel ok about themselves is a crime.

CBOEtrader says

The results of the Australia gun ban are murky at best.

But interesting.

bob2356 says

Which is better for killing lots of people fast?

Please share with us, how many of the 5 million AR-15's in existence in the US were used for mass killings this year versus how many are used for sport shooting, eliminating varmints on farms, and other lawful uses?

bob2356 says

Your proof is missing somehow.

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero.

How about sharing the number of violent crimes (robberies, rapes, beatings, ect.) since the gun ban went into affect. Is it just about mass killings that you liberals care about?

CajunSteve says

Look through almost any thread on here and there will be at least a half dozen memes that judge liberals as less than themselves.

Unfortunately, those are factual.

Sniper says

How about sharing the number of violent crimes (robberies, rapes, beatings, ect.) since the gun ban went into affect. Is it just about mass killings that you liberals care about?

First, I am not anti gun or liberal, but facts is facts. Australia is averaging 1 out of 100,000 deaths from homicide. The USA, depending on what numbers you can find are between 3 and 5 per hundred thousand. I did find one source that shows rapes in Australia are 5% higher than the USA. Other crimes seem to be lower, but they are basically grouped as violent crimes, so I can't find much on robberies. Snopes classifies the claim that banning guns in Australia led to higher crime rates as false.

https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

This alone does not sway me to wanting to ban guns, although going back to some earlier comments, dressing up a gun to look scarier or badass to me implies that there is something wrong with that particular owner. If you are using your gun to intimidate anyone, you are a threat and should lose your right.

My concern is also banning guns, because during a certain time frame things seem stable. I have had the conversation in the past about different people throughout history who should not have been passive about guns. Liberals make the mistake of not realizing that there is a compelling point to be made that the reason the world is getting safer and safer is because guns keep things level. Removing guns from a society leaves the potential for a dictator to take over, or for an ISIS group to make a power grab.

I live in San Diego, one of the safest places in the world. We have reasonably lax gun laws here, just south of us is Tijuana, Mexico. They have a full ban on private gun ownership. They are overrun by cartels. Things have improved, but the deaths from gun violence, in a country that bans guns, was in the 10s of thousands in Tijuana alone. Those poor people are helpless and trapped in a hell hole. If a cartel decides to do a home invasion and kill an entire family, because of this or that political connection, there just isn't a good guy with a gun to come to the rescue. It was happening daily in the 2000s.

Here's two things everybody should agree on:

The FBI and Sheriff's Office must be called into Account.

I would also remind folks that Omar Mateen was also referred to the FBI at least once (may have been several times) before the previous record Mass Murder in Orlando.

A review of the forcible mental health incarceration laws that don't apparently allow troubled individuals with a rich past of violent threats and interactions with authorities to be incarcerated for the safety of themselves and the public.

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance. Quite frankly, if you're not a vendor, parent, faculty, staff or ER Personnel, why should ANYBODY be admitted into a school building without ID, a valid reason, and a pat-down or x-ray?

Businesses with a fraction of the people, all of whom are adults, generally have at least one person at the door or in front of the elevators demanding ID. Why not a campus of 1000+ kids? Doesn't need to be a full-fledged cop or deputy, just a security guard. Great set-aside job for Veterans.

We usually hear, "It was a total surprise... quiet kid..." this time that is emphatically not the case.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance. Quite frankly, if you're not a vendor, parent, faculty, staff or ER Personnel, why should ANYBODY be admitted into a school building without ID, a valid reason, and a pat-down or x-ray?

I'm curious as well, because a couple of years ago I visited my old neighborhood of Coral Springs, FL. My old house is actually quite close to the recent shooting. There was a Sheriff's car parked in front of all of my old schools, I drove by all of them. Coral Springs Elementary, Middle and High School all had very visible exterior security.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance

lol--you think a school campus has "an" entrance?

Why don't you research how many entrances there are at most school campuses and then determine how many security guards that would mean. Then finally, figure how much additional cost that would add. Oh, yeah, who's going to pay?

Resource Officers are very good, but mostly they're walking the halls and keeping order inside the building.

Is there nobody stationed at the entrance at all times during normal school hours? As far as I've seen, the answer is "No".

CajunSteve says

lol--you think a school campus has "an" entrance?

Most schools have one main entrance that is open. The rest are emergency doors that are locked from the outside and sound an alarm if pushed from the inside. Every school I went to was this way.

At my Elementary, JHS, and two HS's, the only way in was the main door, and the service entrance locked from the outside. The staff could open these from the outside only with a key, although they would open out for anybody pushing on the bar, which would make a sound and light up a board. This was 30 years ago.

If not, this is a minor fix that should have been required decades ago.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Most schools have one main entrance that is open. The rest are emergency doors that are locked from the outside and sound an alarm if pushed from the inside. Every school I went to was this way.

Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?

CajunSteve says

Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?

Why not? As long as anybody can push a door to get outside, what's the problem?

Most first year teachers make $30k/year + cost of bennies and pension, but schools can afford ONE (1) full time security guard at the entrance? In areas where first year teachers don't make $30k+bennies, a $9/hr job is considered plush, so still no problem finding and affording a guard.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Why not? As long as anybody can push a door to get outside, what's the problem?

That's what pretty much all schools do already.

CajunSteve says

That's what pretty much all schools do already.

Well, this one didn't.

And it's not a school in bumville with 100-200 students, but a massive campus of over 3000 students.

CajunSteve says

Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?

Schools in that area seemed to all have a main entrance and then the admin office was right next to the main entrance and I think the community officer had his office one door down. You can't lock the place down because there are PE classes and students move from portables to interior classrooms during period changes.

He waltzed right in the door.


900 students on an average day just in this building. Many office buildings, many with a fraction of the people, all adults, have a FT guard at the entrance. And only one entrance for the public to enter; all other entrances only open with a valid key or keycard.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-map.html

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Well, this one didn't.

Yes, it did. Read this article for the details:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html

Malcolm says

Schools in that area seemed to all have a main entrance and then the admin office was right next to the main entrance and I think the community officer had his office one door down. You can't lock the place down because there are PE classes and students move from portables to interior classrooms during period changes.

Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.

CajunSteve says

Yes, it did. Read this article for the details:

I just did, and nope.

Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them.

Bullshit. If it had real security procedures and a dedicated guard for 1000 people, this wouldn't have happened.

He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. And the school resource officer, who is supposed to help protect students, may not have been on school grounds at the time.

The SRO is NOT a dedicated security guard posted at the entrance. He will be breaking up fights, looking for kids sneaking out of the building, pursuing truants, meeting with parents etc. Security means a person at the door at all times. The SRO may not have even been on the campus. This kid was KNOWN to the admins and staff.

Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended.

That’s the time school officials usually open the gates around campus so students and staff parked in various parking lots, as well as school buses and parents picking up their kids, can get out easily, said Jerry Graziose, the district’s former director of school safety.

And gunmen in, or perhaps non-custodial parents swooping in, eh? Totally retarded. Something so basically goofy only an Education PhD would think of and implement

“During the day, those areas locked. But when you’re getting ready for kids to leave, all the gates in the different areas have to be unlocked, and it takes a few minutes for the person doing that,” Graziose .said

Dumbassery on so many levels.

CajunSteve says

Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.

The school wasn't locked down. There was nobody posted at the entrance. The staff had unlocked all the egress points before the school was officially closed. The SRO may not have even been in the building or the campus, much less watching the door and stopping visitors. That's not security.

Imagine if a MIC Contractor opened the gates 20 minutes before the end of day and didn't have a guard checking IDs at the entrance of a Skunkworks building. And the sole designated security person was somewhere else outside the facility (interviewing a potential employee?), much less checking IDs at the entrance points. Would you call that "Well Guarded?" "Why, Congressman, we were well guarded. The Chicoms just were well prepared when they stole the F-37 plans!"

From your own article.

CajunSteve says

Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.

? The article made my point, you can't lock the place down all the time and you can't lock it during a fire alarm. That is a big hole without a clear solution. It would have helped if the community officer were there, I read that he may not have been on campus, that is an issue. That may be THE issue.

At SDSU the classroom doors can be locked from the inside. If this is not the case, schools need to be able to lock classroom doors, maybe with a WiFi system.

I don't understand. When I was a kid, we had to wait until all the safety crossing guards were deployed before they let us out the door. All by walkie-talkies back pre-cell phone era, when only Drug Dealers and Executives had beepers and car phones.

I've seen temples and churches deploy staff for traffic purposes. A campus of 3000+ kids, bigger than most Churches, doesn't deploy staff members in and outside the building?