patrick.net

The level of stupidity and paranoia in the police forces is staggering.

>>Police aren't saying who shot first, but the Lafalces say troopers treated Sykes like a criminal, refusing to get him medical treatment for 45 minutes until he staggered outside where they flipped him over and handcuffed him.

ANY AND ALL injured persons during ANY AND ALL circumstances are entitled to medical care. It DOES NOT MATTER that police thinks someone is a criminal. Injured persons must receive prompt treatment and first aid. Anything else is attempted murder, and in some cases becomes actual murder.

Real life is NOT A VIDEO GAME. DAMN IT!

Cops shoot an innocent, law abiding home owner and then continue to endanger his life rather than get him treatment, hoping he'd die and not be able to testify against him.

Where are all the criminal cop apologists now? This is a real world situations where a white gun owner innocent law abiding citizen was shot multiple times by police with no just cause and medical treatment delay almost causing the man's death. Every fucking conservative and gun rights advocate should be calling for these police to be locked up for life. Anything less is utter hypocrisy.

Ironman says

Is firing the first shot at cops with a shotgun legal in NJ now?? I didn't know that?

1. There is NOTHING in the article to support your assertion.
2. If possessing a gun for home defense cause the cops to shoot you then we might as well ban guns.

I see facts never intrude on your fantasies.

Ironhead has a beginner response & proved the troopers didn't shoot
an old white man.
Glad that's cleared up!

Dan8267 says

Every fucking conservative and gun rights advocate should be calling for these police to be locked up for life. Anything less is utter hypocrisy.

reasonable point

Ironman says

...."As the troopers shined flashlights through a sliding glass door in the rear of the house and said they were responding to a 911 call, 76-year-old Gerald Sykes fired a single round from a shotgun through the door, according to a preliminary investigation.

The cops went to the wrong house and might not have identified themselves properly, as they thought a crime was actively taking place. That seems like a keystone kop maneuver.

Ironman says

76-year-old Gerald Sykes fired a single round from a shotgun through the door,

He could have thought they were Jehovah Witnesses or Mormon missionaries.

Does this have anything to do with NJs problems with unfunded liabilities ? Just kidding, Trump isn't President yet.

Ironman says

...."As the troopers shined flashlights through a sliding glass door in the rear of the house and said they were responding to a 911 call, 76-year-old Gerald Sykes fired a single round from a shotgun through the door,

Fine you posted a different and unsubstantiated news story in which a homeowner defending his home and family fired a single shot at what any reasonable person would conclude are burglars, home invaders, and possible rapists. This is exactly the situation that every pro-gun person says necessitates the use of guns by civilians. So the police, who never identified themselves, have absolutely no right to fire at an innocent, law-biding citizen defending his home and family from potential burglar, rapists, and murderers. They should have identified themselves as police instead of shooting at innocent citizens. They could have murdered a child. Furthermore, the home owner was in perfectly reasonable fear of his life and had a right to use deadly force to protect himself and his family. Unless, of course, you wish to repeal the Second Amendment. Is that what you are saying?

HEY YOU says

Cops are now shooting old white men.

So all those claiming cops are racists, have now been proven wrong. BLM.....go home.

Strategist says

So all those claiming cops are racists, have now been proven wrong. BLM.....go home.

That makes no fucking sense. Cops shooting a white guy does not disprove the racism that is undeniable given the disproportionate shooting of innocent, unarmed, and cooperating black men. Such mathematical facts cannot be explained by anything other than racism. The fact that you are trying to deny that racism even exists shows what a lying sack of shit you are. The degree of the disproportionality makes it painfully obvious that racism is still very much alive. And quite frankly, those of us who aren't racists are sick and damn tired of racists like you making the rest of us white people look like asses. You give us white people a bad name, so shut the fuck up.

Cops shoot more White and Hispanic (but I repeat myself) men than black men each year The number of blacks shot is proportional to their arrest rate.

BLM doesn't care about black kids being caught in being rival gangs' gunfire and getting killed. BLM only cares when their "Country run by Black is institutionally Racist" narrative can be advanced.

That being said Cops do shoot unarmed people too often, but then again, we also don't care for the mentally ill like other coutnries, either.

jazz music says

Who aren't the "racist cops" shooting the Asians?

jazz music says

@Strategist ... gee you kind of changed the subject when confronted with a little factual data there. Hmmm. Spout B.S. to support your ignorant view, then retreat with counterattack, that is your strategy. Heyyy, "Strategist" okay I get it now.

Wait oh, don't bother saying it. It's still race in a way, just not "... been proven wrong. BLM.....go home."

Do bring links or data to discuss, or just criticize and spout?

I could look at your user history, but nahhh.

I made a comment from your own chart.
Why aren't the "racist cops" shooting Asians?
Ans: Because they don't commit as many crimes as other groups.
It throws your "cops are racists" claims out the window doesn't it?

Ironman says

Jazz just keeps it going like the other delusional libbies here spewing about "needles" when they should be worrying about the "haystacks".

His comment were not coherent either. Must be the good Jamaican Rum again.

jazz music says

Notice that twice as many blacks are killed than whites on a per-million basis. But wait, there's more! four times as many native Americans get killed this year. And ... Latino lives matter only a little less than white people.

BUT Blacks commit disproportionately more crime. Think of all the Whitey McWhite places like Alice's Restaurant where the worst crime in 20 years was illegally dumping a fridge or graffiti on the side of Wilbur's barn.

Relative to arrest rate, the shootings are on par.

Cops that shoot any unarmed American,regardless of skin color, should be executed by firing squad.
If anyone is against capital punishment,they can pay all the taxes to keep criminals behind bars.

Ironman says

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with a old guy making a bad decision to fire a shotgun through his sliding glass door outside and being shot when police had to defend themselves and return fire.

It has everything to do with the Second Amendment. The police never identified themselves. The man had every reason to believe they were home invaders intent on harming his family. This is EXACTLY the situation that every pro-gun person states is the justification for armed citizens. Had they been home invaders and no other differences -- no change whatsoever in the situation or the information available to the home owner -- you would be praising the home owner as a hero for shooting. You are a fucking hypocrite.

jazz music says

Can you spend a day without bringing alcohol into a discussion? Can you take that Ironmangina out of your ass and suck on it?

Can you spend a day without uttering 4 letter words?

jazz music says

Strategist says

"cops are racists"

Show me where I said that.

You imply that in every comment about cops.

jazz music says

How many crimes do Asians commit? Do they have gangs? yes, Organized crime? yes.

Proportionately less. That's the number you refuse to see.

Ironman says

Dan8267 says

The police never identified themselves. The man had every reason to believe they were home invaders intent on harming his family.

Do you think telling the same lie over and over will make it true??

Dan is delusional.

Tenpoundbass says

This is why although I'm not a gun enthusiast I support people's rights to guns. And I would call shooting these people in the head on sight on his private property a clean kill.

Dan8267 says

Tenpoundbass says

Dan8267 says

And I'm sure the farmer's family will be better off with the farmer on death row for multiple homicides.

No Trespassing signs and stand your ground.

And how will that work when a plainclothes police officer heads towards the farmhouse's front door to solicit donations for the orphans of police officers who died in the line of duty?

Your farmer isn't going to know it's a cop or what his purpose is, and the jury isn't going to care. You really haven't thought this one through.

Without doubt, Tenpoundbass would have shot at the police under these circumstances. So who here says that Tenpoundass deserves to be shot to death? Come on, put your money where your mouth is.

The responses from Strategist and Call It Crazy indicate that they have no problem throwing their fellow home defenders under the bus when it is politically convenient for them to do so. Both of these jackasses would have shot at the police under the given circumstances as well, especially if one of the cops was black.

This just goes to show the utter hypocrisy of the pro-gun crowd. If ever there was a justification for a scared homeowner, defending his family from intruders, this story is it. Cops are prowling around like burglars, not identifying themselves, and scaring the shit out of a family in the middle of the night.

And these same jackasses defended Zimmerman killing an unarmed, innocent boy because he "was acting suspicious". What fucking hypocrisy.

Call It Crazy
#WhinyLittleBitch

Ironman says

BTW Dan, it's a felony to discharge a firearm through an exterior door to the outside.

Not in self defense. No cop discharging a firearm through an exterior door to the outside in self-defense would ever be charged. Under the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment, it therefore cannot be illegal for a citizen to do the same.

Are you really saying that you would convict a person shooting an armed burglar though his front door? If so you are a hypocrite on gun usage. if not, you are a hypocrite in this case.

jazz music says

Strategist says

That's the number you refuse to see.

It is you who never saw a number on asian-american crime per capita. And you never will as long as you can keep changing the subject.

Take another drink of ignorance.

jazz music says

Here's your chart. Tell me what you see about Asian Americans?

Ironman says

Dan8267 says

Are you really saying that you would convict a person shooting an armed burglar though his front door?

The cops were not burglars here.

Ironman says

The old guy wasn't a cop.

Irrelevant. Same rules according to the highest law of our land. The law-bidding citizen had a right to defend himself and his family.

Strategist says

The cops were not burglars here.

And the old guy was not a criminal, so the cops had no right to be prowling on his private property.

Furthermore, the old guy had every reason to believe the cops were burglars. Hell, Tenpoundbass would have shot the cops multiple times. His own posts on this website confirm that beyond any doubt. Would you convict Tenpoundbass?

I didn't see a single BLM protester out there complaining about it... so....

Ironman says

How do you know he was law-abidding? Was his gun legally owned, or just more assumptions by you?

Oh, so now we're going to judge people based on the worst possible thing that is physically possible? Then how do you know the cops were law-abiding and not pedophile terrorists? What hypocrisy!

The police were dispatched to the wrong house. No crime was committed. The family did absolutely nothing to bring about a raid on their house. Nor would any reasonable person expect the people prowling outside to be cops instead of burglars and rapists. The entire pro-gun crowd is always saying that guns are necessary for defense when the bad guys come to your house and the police are ten minutes away. This story is EXACTLY that situation as far as the information the home owner had.

Don't tell me that ANY gun owner would have behaved differently. Tenpoundbass went on the record that he would shoot first and ask questions never under this situation. Unless you are willing to call all gun owners criminals, then your blaming of the victim in this case is utter hypocrisy.

FortWayne says

I didn't see a single BLM protester out there complaining about it... so....

How hard have you looked? I support BLM in that I oppose cops murdering innocent, unarmed people both black and white and not being held accountable like any other person would. And I'm complaining about this. So I directly contradict your premise. Are you willing to admit you are wrong?

And aren't you a gun nut? Shouldn't you be outraged that a gun owner was shot for defending his house against cops prowling like burglars and not identifying themselves as police? This is a direct attack on YOUR Second Amendment rights. This is a case for banning all guns so that neither the police nor law-abiding citizens get shot by each other.

Ironman says

Oh Dan, the cops were responding to a 911 hang up call.

Irrelevant. Responding to a 911 call does not give cops the right to commit rape, murder, or any other felony.

If you hold the belief that a law-abiding citizen has the right to use a gun to defend his family from home invaders when he reasonably suspects people are about to violently force their way into his home and hurt his family, then the victim in this story had every legal right to shoot at the police reasonably believing them to be home invaders.

The police should not have prowled around the house sneaking peaks into the house. They should have knocked on the front door and announced themselves. When fired upon, the police should have backed off and then identified themselves as police as a law-abiding citizen can be expected to respond to the police's suspicious actions with gunfire, whether a warning shot or not. You can be damn sure any cop in his own home at night would have done the exact same damn thing under the same circumstances. Then which cop do you blame?

You can even take this scenario two steps further. What if it were private investigators snooping around and a civilian inside? Which party would be the criminal in that case? What if it were private investigators snooping around and a off-duty cop inside? How about then? Unless you get the same conclusion for each of these cases, you are being hypocritical. In all four cases, clearly the home owner is in the right and the prowlers are in the wrong.

This story illustrates the inescapable contradiction that all gun supporters must answer. If people have the right to use guns to defend their home and family, than the victim's actions were legal and the cops are criminals and should be tried for attempted murder. If the cops are innocent, then people do not have the right to use guns to defend their home and family because they might be unintentionally shooting at cops. That's always a possibility in our society where police barge into homes without warning.

If you want the last word, asshole, take it. Your posts are contributing nothing to the conversation.

Ironman says

http://www.app.com/story/news/local/new-jersey/2016/07/31/state-troopers-exchange-gunfire/87882662/

Ironman says

This is the difference between a CA news reporting source (the OP) and a local NJ source (which is the accurate one).

Ironman says

Nice try again asshole, my article was from a local NJ paper who locally verifies the story, not the CA paper regurgitating the story.

You really are such a dumb shit that it's hard to believe you can breath without help from someone smarter than you. The asbury park press isn't local to deerfield township shitforbrains. Deerfield township is vineland for christ sakes. That's 2 hours away from asbury.

Did you read the article in the APP? Didn't you notice where it started and ended with ASSOCIATED PRESS. That's right your "local" NJ paper verified story came right off the AP wire you stupid bastard.

Oh wait here is the exact same LOCAL NJ paper verified story right off the AP wire word for word in the dotham alabama eagle and in SFgate (SF means San Francisco) . OMG how did that happen? Funny what is LOCAL these days. http://www.dothaneagle.com/news/ap/state/state-troopers-exchange-gunfire-after-responding-to-call/article_1b8d4a81-c9f4-5368-8da5-83f63ea40cae.html http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/State-troopers-exchange-gunfire-after-responding-8735273.php

How do we know the Asbury Park Press story wasn't the original? Because starting in 2011 AP changed its policy to attribute back to the original story with a link. There is no attribution at all so it's an AP staff story. Plus the story is the same everywhere. AP rewrites all their stories. If the Asbury story was the original it wouldn't match the newswire version.

Ironman says

As the troopers shined flashlights through a sliding glass door in the rear of the house and said they were responding to a 911 call, 76-year-old Gerald Sykes fired a single round from a shotgun through the door, according to a preliminary investigation.

Ironman says

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160731_Man_wounded_in_shooting_with_state_troopers_in_South_Jersey.html

But wait. The philly news, which does NOT come off the wire service but instead has their story written by a staff writer says:

"At that time, there was an exchange of gunfire through the sliding glass door in which one of the troopers fired four rounds from his service 9mm handgun and Gerald Sykes fired a single round from a shotgun," the statement said.

It did not say who shot first.

Gee, the actual local story says no one knows who shot first. The national AP wire story says Sykes shot first. Ironbrain, the champion of the local media, goes with the AP wire story. Nothing like being consistent with your bullshit.

What's the price for only one, 15 years???

HEY YOU says

Cops that shoot any unarmed American,regardless of skin color, should be executed by firing squad.

My guess is about 20 screaming georgies patrons as they were herded to the exits after the sale...

Ironman says

Just how many voices do you hear in your head?

As long as white Republicans get shot,it's all good!

Ironman says

Dan8267 says

If you want the last word, asshole, take it. Your posts are contributing nothing to the conversation.

Ahhh, little Danny... does your asshole finally hurt too much after pulling all those lies and bullshit out of it??

Dan and Jazz both conceded. Their arguments were a joke.

PCGyver says

Strategist says

Dan and Jazz both conceded. Their arguments were a joke

Or they decided the people they were arguing with are so thick headed that really there was nothing more to say.

Ha ha. That they decided about some of us a long time ago.

thunderlips11 says

BUT Blacks commit disproportionately more crime.

Care to offer any proof of this?

Last time I asked whoever posted this on patnet, to prove it, they couldn't. So let's try again; prove it or stop lying about it.

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Deerfield township is vineland for christ sakes. That's 2 hours away from asbury.

How far away is the Fresno reporter that wrote the story in the OP:

By Jeff Chirico

Sunday, July 31, 2016 02:26PM

As far away as whatever ABC affiliate wrote the story for ABC. You are the one that was screaming the Asbury Park Press was LOCAL. Yea, they were local to the AP wire service. How about sorry I really fucked that up, I was wrong as usual. Open asshole, remove head.

Ironman says

PCGyver says

Ironman says

Sykes heard the dog bark, and “saw two dark figures” out his back door, Sykes’ step-daughter Diana LaFalce told Fox 29.

LaFalce, relaying her 80-year-old mother’s story of the shooting, said Sykes approached the doors with his shotgun, at which point the officers shouted “drop it,” LaFarce told Fox 29.

So they didn't identify themselves only said "drop it" and we still don't know who fired first.

Are you clueless like Dan and only read one sentence of someone's post?? Try going right down to the next line I posted:

Ironman says

The statement also notes that police officers were “shining flashlights into the home and announcing that they were responding to a 911 call.”

Are you really this stupid or do you just play an idiot on Patnet?

Ironman says

That statement was posted on Fox 29, a local Philadelphia station that's close to that area and they interviewed the step daughter.

Spin, spin, spin. The police statement says the police announced they were responding to a 911 call, not the daughter. You made a big deal out of the daughter being interviewed by "local" news. She says the mom said there were 2 dark figures that simply said drop it, nothing about a 911 call. Are you really this stupid, never mind forget I asked that question. It's a self evident truth.

Ironman says

So the old guy gets up from a sound sleep, is dealing with a frantic wife and barking dogs, grabs his shotgun, but since he's deaf in one ear, doesn't hear the command by the cops to "drop" the shotgun when pointing it at the cops, gets shot.

How do you know he didn't hear some dark unknown figure with a gun say drop it? Maybe he heard them just fine, didn't know they were cops, saw they were armed, and then shot at them? Were you so "local" that you were there? Keep on making shit up.

This is exactly the situation you are always cheering on. This is your ultimate wet dream (other than the sheep of the month centerfold). An armed law abiding citizen defending their home against unknown armed intruders. You should be looking for the guy to get an award.

Maybe instead doing the ironbrain/rambo thing and grabbing a shotgun, they should have called 911 themselves. In which case the whole thing would have been cleared up in 2 seconds. Yea, lets arm the entire populace. Great idea. This certainly shows nothing can go wrong. nothing can go wrong, nothing can go wrong.