patrick.net

Hey Goran, I like the choice - Carson city, NV. Close to Tahoe. Still close to Bay Area. Can you tell us more on out why you chose this place?

And what were some other places you considered?

Ironworker says

Hey Goran, I like the choice - Carson city, NV. Close to Tahoe. Still close to Bay Area. Can you tell us more on out why you chose this place?

Well my requirements for a home out of state revolved around a few main criteria.

- Not heavily populated (more people more problems from what I've seen in my life)
- Low cost of living (so no urban centers of commerce)
- Weather could not be too extreme (didn't have to be California pleasant, but not Antarctica or Mojave either). I want to be able to go outside and enjoy it at least 80% of the year. I'm an avid long distance biker, I do about two 40 mile rides per month, and I also like to run about 10 miles per week.
- Conservative/Libertarian leanings politically. I've lived next to leftist pretty much my whole life (San Francisco, Los Angeles, Hong Kong, etc), and I'm done with it. I don't need local government telling me that I can't drink soda (I love coke), I can't smoke cigarettes, or I can't eat fois gras, or I can't own a rifle because some Islamic extremist shot someone using a long gun. I don't want to be taxed into oblivion to support entitlement programs for illegal aliens, nor do I want to politicians mismanaging any tax dollars I give them so they can satisfy their voting bloc. I just find government is generally horrible at regulating anything, and I want them in my life as little as possible. So that left California and New York off my list.

So with that all in line, my short list ended up being:
- Flagstaff, Arizona
- Gardnerville, Nevada (suburb of Carson City)
- Dripping Springs, Texas

Gardnerville ended up winning out because of the amount of great, cheap properties to buy and it hit every requirement on my list. The people were friendly, and even though the amount of social activities is limited in the Reno-Carson City metro, it's not like it's hicksville either. There's a pub/art district area in Reno that is actually pretty pleasant to visit for those Friday nights out with the wife.

Flagstaff was really nice, and a close second. But the housing prices over there are a bit more pricey, not California pricey, but climbing because people are realizing how awesome it is out there. The weather is mild, especially for what most people think of Arizona, and the amount of outdoor places to explore was excellent during my time there. I almost pulled the trigger on a place out there and who knows, I may yet still...

Dripping Springs was also very cool, but in all honesty, a little more humid than I would have preferred. Also Dripping Springs was almost "too conservative" for me, the local convenience store sold shirts with faith verses on them, and NRA themed hats. I'm more of a center-right libertarian, so too far left or too far right tend to turn me off. I wish there was a "leave me the fuck alone" party, which I guess is supposed to be the libertarian party, but I digress.

I will say California had better restaurant choices than all three of the places I chose. The food taste better, it's fresher, and I actually enjoyed going out to eat in California. In Gardnerville, or Flagstaff, the choices and most importantly flavors are not up to snuff IMHO. But I cook a lot of my own food now days anyway, so that wasn't as important a factor for me.

So that's what went through my mind when I decided I wanted out of California.

Goran_K says

I wish there was a "leave me the fuck alone" party

Goran, you and I seem to be pretty similarly aligned. I've never considered myself to be a conservative libertarian, but I guess that would be the appropriate label.

And how in the world did you settle on those three cities? Is there city version of a ETF/mutual-fund finder out there somewhere :-)

Goran_K says

I've lived next to leftist pretty much my whole life (San Francisco, Los Angeles, Hong Kong, etc), and I'm done with it. I don't need local government telling me that I can't drink soda (I love coke), I can't smoke cigarettes, or I can't eat fois gras, or I can't own a rifle because some Islamic extremist shot someone using a long gun. I don't want to be taxed into oblivion to support entitlement programs for illegal aliens, nor do I want to politicians mismanaging any tax dollars I give them so they can satisfy their voting bloc. I just find government is generally horrible at regulating anything, and I want them in my life as little as possible.

Spot on! I've been living in metro CA (SF or LA) nearly all my life and more and more I ask myself, why do I put up with the congestion, the anger, the population density, the cost of living, and just move to the mountains?

I'm in my mid 30s but expect that sentiment to only grow.

BayArea says

Goran, you and I seem to be pretty similarly aligned. I've never considered myself to be a conservative libertarian, but I guess that would be the appropriate label.

And how in the world did you settle on those three cities? Is there city version of a ETF/mutual-fund finder out there somewhere :-)

Here's something you might like. I took one of those political alignment test on Facebook. You have to answer 50 questions (more if you want), but it basically shows what your political alignment is, and here's what I got.

As you can see I'm pretty center-right with slight libertarian leanings. I do believe government has a role for the country obviously (national defense, infrastructure), but in the end I want to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice. I think gay people should go and get married (or whatever they want to call it), I support people being able to buy weed and smoking it. I also believe I should be able to own an AR15 if I am a law abiding citizen with no criminal or negative mental health record. But I'm digressing.

As for those 3 cities, I started by making a short list of states that generally fit my criteria, then I whittled them down one by one. When I got to 3-4 states where I could see myself living, then I started looking for cities within those states. It ended up being a really involved process that took weeks of research and internet forum reading.

BayArea says

Spot on! I've been living in metro CA (SF or LA) nearly all my life and more and more I ask myself, why do I put up with the congestion, the anger, the population density, the cost of living, and just move to the mountains?

I'm in my mid 30s but expect that sentiment to only grow.

Those are some good questions, and questions I asked myself as well. The business tax burden in California is extremely high, the individual tax burden is high. There are too many people, and housing cost are astronomical at the moment. Personally, I like to stretch my arms once in a while and not offend anyone's safe space.

Congrats, Goran. Well done.

Between the real estate investment choices, your approach to finding your political standing, and the methodology you followed in finding your current city, I am thoroughly entertained and even somewhat envious of you lol (and I say that 100% respectfully)

May I ask how old you are and what you did for a living to allow you to purchase your Laguna/LA properties in the first place?

Thank you Goran for braking it up for us. Great strategy! Are you from former Yugoslavia - Croatia, Slovenia. My favorite tennis player ever was Goran Ivanisevic.

Meeting would be interesting and maybe even fun with a glass of wine.

ah, the glass of wine part got to me. maybe it is about time for a patrick.net meetup.

@turtledove , when are you going to be in san francisco?

BayArea says

Between the real estate investment choices, your approach to finding your political standing, and the methodology you followed in finding your current city, I am thoroughly entertained and even somewhat envious of you lol (and I say that 100% respectfully)

May I ask how old you are and what you did for a living to allow you to purchase your Laguna/LA properties in the first place?

Well thanks man, I don't think I'm doing extraordinary compared to people I worked with earlier in my career but I believe in my heart I made the right decisions to have a good life for me and the family, a life without great struggle. That's all I could ever want or hope for.

I'm in my late 40s, 2 kids, married. A little about me. I graduated from Wharton business, and was recruited directly out of school into Goldman Sachs. got to travel the world in the 90s and early 2000s, spent time in New York, Hong Kong (before the skyline was even littered with skyscrapers), and even fell in love with a woman in Taiwan when I was eventually offered an opportunity in Taipei. I brought her back here to the states and we had a "little Goran". We bought a small home, then I sold that first home in 2003. I never tried to time anything, I only did things that made sense for my personal situation. I probably left some money on the table seeing as housing didn't peak until 2006, but it was a blessing in disguise for me (more on that later). It wasn't a huge home, just a small 3/2 condo starter home I bought with my hard earned W2 paychecks working as a Financial Analyst (then Financial Associate, then Intermediate Associate) at Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and other financial institutions.

In 2003 after I sold the home, I bought a pretty large stake in Gold based on a suggestion from a co-worker, which I ended up selling in 2010. Again, I left a lot of money on the table selling early, but I count my blessings that I was able to put money from my first home sale into a place where it literally grew nearly 4x (wish I would've waited another year or two). Reason I sold was I was ready to buy, all cash of course, and ready to pull the trigger (which btw lead to me finding Patrick.net so I could research the current market). So that's where I got the bulk of my cash to buy the Laguna Beach home and then the West LA home.

So as you can see, nothing really special, just a lot of luck, opportunity, and the ability to pursue those opportunities. Even buying the home in OC, you can tell in my original post that I wasn't super happy about buying, but for some reason it just worked out.

Just did okay in school, ended up working at good firm with lots of career opportunities. Outside of work, I don't really focus on side gigs or projects like my co-workers did. Just wanted to provide for the family, and be able to afford annual passes and trips to Disneyland. Also, a little prayer/spirituality helps IMO.

Ironworker says

Thank you Goran for braking it up for us. Great strategy! Are you from former Yugoslavia - Croatia, Slovenia. My favorite tennis player ever was Goran Ivanisevic.

I am ethnically serbian and swede (through my mother's side). Good catch.

Hmmmm... I'm having second thoughts about hopping the fence and using Duckies pool.

lol why would you hop his fence anyway?

rando says

when are you going to be in san francisco?

@Patrick

We're heading up Wed., July 13th. So, getting there that evening and heading back the morning of July 18th.

Nice to see someone else who took a chance in 2012 and came out on top. I paid $45.8k for a town home in riverside county that once sold for $238k. That was in March, 2012. Fast forward 4 years and 4 months and were seeing homes similar to mine in the same complex selling for $140k. Not bad equity and I have good tenants paying $1050 a month for almost a year now. Gonna leave everything alone for a while and see what happens next summer.

crashtheninvest says

Nice to see someone else who took a chance in 2012 and came out on top. I paid $45.8k for a town home in riverside county that once sold for $238k. That was in March, 2012. Fast forward 4 years and 4 months and were seeing homes similar to mine in the same complex selling for $140k. Not bad equity and I have good tenants paying $1050 a month for almost a year now. Gonna leave everything alone for a while and see what happens next summer.

Nice returns. Very nice. Next few years will also see very strong returns.

Speaking of selling we accepted an offer on our parents home over the weekend, so they're out on both residential and commercial property

Logan Mohtashami says

Speaking of selling we accepted an offer on our parents home over the weekend, so they're out on both residential and commercial property

Did they get their price?

Strategist says

Did they get their price?

Yes, escrow opens Monday, Once contingency is removed more details can be given, they sold their commercial property with multiple bids

As you can imagine I have kept great details of the entire process, once the home is sold, I can give you gives a timeline and data report of who, what and at what price was the action at.

Logan Mohtashami says

Strategist says

Did they get their price?

Yes, escrow opens Monday, Once contingency is removed more details can be given, they sold their commercial property with multiple bids

Why did they sell all their real estate? Are they expecting a downturn?

Strategist says

Why did they sell all their real estate? Are they expecting a downturn?

It's not about timing the real estate market, my parents are in their 60's with just them and a dog.

It's a big home, 5,300 sq ft, 5 bedroom and 6 bath, 2 stories and that's what they don't want anymore, they want a one story home only now. That's a very big thing in the market with the older demographics, a one story home. Their front facing neighbor had a one story Nellie Gail Ranch home, it sold for 2.45 million Cash to a Russian Buyer.

So, it's a traditional downsize.

If the home didn't sell, they would have just rented it out because they really want to move, they don't even use any of the upstairs rooms anymore outside the office.

Once it's sold I can give more details and give you a perspective, because last year we used a real estate agent and this year we didn't we sold the home on our own

Looks like a lot of OC people are cashing out their houses to move someplace else.

Goran_K says

Looks like a lot of OC people are cashing out their houses to move someplace else.

They're making a offer on a home just a few minutes away that is much much smaller today, got to live some where

Logan Mohtashami says

They're making a offer on a home just a few minutes away that is much much smaller today, got to live some where

Is there a reason they are staying in California? Most of the retirees I knew (Laguna beach, Newport, Dana Point etc) who have cashed out took off for Nevada, Texas, Oregon, South Carolina, basically much lower cost living areas.

Goran_K says

Is there a reason they are staying in California?

The business is here and it's not a business that can be transported, My father is 62, so he is still working

Goran, I still get a laugh from thinking about your descriptions of Obnoxious Bay Areans. That post is long gone except some snippets inside my mind.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Goran, I still get a laugh from thinking about your descriptions of Obnoxious Bay Areans. That post is long gone except some snippets inside my mind.

lol, I don't remember that post. What was the context?

Someone from flyover country expressed their opinion that me or someone else here made a remark akin to being/feeling superior to flyover folks.
I responded by saying Californians and Bay Areans in particular can be some of the Worlds Most Obnoxious People.
You wrote a long post, almost an essay, on three different Obnoxious Bay Area PhenoTypes. It was hilarious, more so because rang of truth.
There were arrogant prick types who drove expensive German Sedans; there were folks who only rode public transit and had to shop late at night cause they worked such long hrs at unsuccessful startups, and there were Whole-Foods Hipster Types whose sociology major girlfriends don't shave their pits.

Dear Goran,
Invest your newly acquired wealth in home building stocks. By 2020 you will be a very very rich man.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Someone from flyover country expressed their opinion that me or someone else here made a remark akin to being/feeling superior to flyover folks.

I responded by saying Californians and Bay Areans in particular can be some of the Worlds Most Obnoxious People.

You wrote a long post, almost an essay, on three different Obnoxious Bay Area PhenoTypes. It was hilarious, more so because rang of truth.

There were arrogant prick types who drove expensive German Sedans; there were folks who only rode public transit and had to shop late at night cause they worked such long hrs at unsuccessful startups, and there were Whole-Foods Hipster Types whose sociology major girlfriends don't shave their pits.

Dang, I do remember that post. It's gone? I put a lot of effort into that.

All I can remember is Goran's smelly coworker post. Congrats on the sales. That said, so much for the Prop 13 tax basis/Mediterranean climate. Happy landings.

Goran_K says

Dang, I do remember that post. It's gone? I put a lot of effort into that.

@Goran_K no it should not be gone. should pop up in search results if you can remember relevant words in it.

Goran, how's Gardnerville? Are you guys happy there with family? Can you describe your experience?

Thank you!

Lots of illegals with rakes and tomato spikes....

As you know in 2012 (by my post history), I purchased a home in Laguna Beach, my primary home. In 2013, I also purchased an investment property in Los Angeles (West LA). I paid $1.2 million for the Laguna Beach home, and $675,000 for the condo in West LA. The West LA condo was rented before I even closed escrow to a personal friend. He stayed in the place for 2 years paying $2700 a month. I also had a tenant afterwards who was paying $3100 a month until I sold the place.

In 2016 I sold my Laguna Beach home for $2.45 million and 3 weeks ago I sold the West LA condo for $1.3.

Don't see much iSideWith click baits anymore, anyone notice that?