patrick.net

"facts' sounds more like govt paid for propaganda.
Each one of those facts can be refuted by other facts

Also this for people interested in learning about what's going on.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/facts-about-the-syrian-refugees/

Obama, for his part, said in remarks on Nov. 19 in the Philippines that the “overwhelming numbers who have been applying are children, women, families — themselves victims of terrorism.”
We asked the administration for a demographic breakdown of Syrian refugees who are seeking to resettle in the U.S., and it provided a chart that shows 23,826 total applicants — 15,937, or 67 percent, of whom are women (of all ages) and male children (age 0 to 11). Men (age 18 and older) accounted for 25.5 percent.

smaulgld says

"facts' sounds more like govt paid for propaganda.

Each one of those facts can be refuted by other facts

You say that, but you can not and will not take the time to credibly refute a single one. Hell, you didn't even take the time to read them. Are you trying to be a moron ?

Germany is accepting 800,000 this year.

We have people here freaking out about accepting 10,000, mostly women and children, much more highly vetted than the 800,000 going in to Germany.

Come on people. It truly is the least we can do.

smaulgld says

Each one of those facts can be refuted by other facts

I refute that!

I has lived in Michigan for a while and the Muslim Americans there don't bother anyone, and are a peaceable people. It's the Irish you have to worry about.

Blurtman says

It's the Irish you have to worry about.

Yes. How quickly they forget, and beome exactly like the assholes that had those attitudes about their ancestors.

"Du-huuh-huh, oh but that was different, because when I choose to hate and fear all Islamic people for the behavior of an extremely small minority, it's you know about violence so my ignorance and prejudice is all like, you know, justified and stuff."

Discclaimer: My father was 100% Irish.

marcus says

"Du-huuh-huh, oh but that was different, because when I choose to hate and fear all Islamic people for the behavior of an extremely small minority, it's you know about violence so my ignorance and prejudice is all like, you know, justified and stuff."

And every time an immigrant group "Makes it", the Business Community calls them "Lazy Bums" and insists we need a different batch of ethnics to replace them.

"The Cheap Labor must floooooowwwwww."

This part makes me laugh: " Refugees don't get long-term subsidized housing. "

Can you imagine when they arrive in California and see the shack they are "placed" in and can afford?
They will swim back to Syria.

Heraclitusstudent says

This part makes me laugh: " Refugees don't get long-term subsidized housing. "

Yeah, right! Or that they won't apply and get all kinds of Welfare Benefits, HUD programs, etc.

Anybody really think those "Charities" aren't helping them sign up for benefits?

I guess every Somali refugee in Saint Cloud is off welfare and not on food stamps or in Section 8.

marcus says

"Du-huuh-huh, oh but that was different, because when I choose to hate and fear all Islamic people for the behavior of an extremely small minority, it's you know about violence so my ignorance and prejudice is all like, you know, justified and stuff."

Discclaimer: My father was 100% Irish.

sure, i'm acutely aware of previous prejudice toward immigrants.

yes, this is actually really really different because the catholic religion does not demand you be killed if you try to leave it, nor does it demand you be killed if you insult it, nor does it explicitly demand war against all non-catholics on earth as a sacred duty.

as for the "extremely small minority", that reminds me of a pakistani friend telling me not to worry about pakistan, because "only 10%" of pakistan were really violent fundamentalists who take islam seriously.

and again, the hate is only in your own mind. i don't hate anyone. i just want people to be open and honest about what islam actually teaches.

catholic religion does not demand you be killed if you try to leave it

Actually that would depend on which order your priests were from - Jesuit? Dominican? Benedictine? Really had to watch those Jesuits.

catholic religion does not demand you be killed if you try to leave it, nor does it demand you be killed if you insult it, nor does it explicitly demand war against all non-catholics on earth as a sacred duty.

What an incredible act of generosity it is for western countries to admit Muslims into their country so that in one or two short generations they can be freed from such bullshit (that is if they are even strict fundamentalists when they come in).

Surely the parents or great grandparents of the millions of American Muslims didn't share the modern beliefs their descendants do now.

"We share a lot of things in America with Americans," El Nour said. "The way we have been treated as Americans here, with democracy and freedom, I think we are totally different from Muslims in other parts of the world."

The survey also found that less than half of U.S. Muslims (48 percent) say all or most of their close friends are followers of Islam. In Africa, Asia and Europe, a median of 95 percent of Muslims says that all or most of their close friends are Muslim.

Fatima Smejkal, a board member of the Cedar Rapids Islamic Center, said her community is constantly melding with other faith communities.

"The Christians, the Muslims, the Jewish faith — we are all as one here. We respect each other, work together, live together. We frequent each other's house of worship," Smejkal said. "It's a wonderful society."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/05/01/muslims-america-abroad-global-survey/2125993/

marcus says

What an incredible act of generosity it is for western countries to admit Muslims into their country so that in one or two short generations they can be freed from such bullshit (that is if they are even strict fundamentalists when they come in).

i agree that there is merit to being generous, and i'm happy to hear you sort-of admit that islam has "bullshit" in it (by which i assume you mean the violence inherent in islam).

marcus says

The survey also found that less than half of U.S. Muslims (48 percent) say all or most of their close friends are followers of Islam

sure, the less rigorously people follow islam, the more peaceful they are. remember that islam expressly forbids muslims from being friends with christians or jews.

but you seem to have much more faith than i do that simply living in america will convince them that the violence inherent in islam is bad. remember that the founder of the muslim brotherhood lived here and went back to found that movement, partly in reaction to the social freedoms he saw here.

marcus says

"Du-huuh-huh, oh but that was different, because when I choose to hate and fear all Islamic people for the behavior of an extremely small minority, it's you know about violence so my ignorance and prejudice is all like, you know, justified and stuff."

Minority? ISIS is not a minority! They are not a small group of 20 terrorists (just because that's what US government calls them to make you feel happy about), they are an entire country organized under a certain sect of Islam. So is Al Queda and all those other groups and branches of what we refer to as terrorist nations. They are in millions. And last I saw, which was today is that our government still hates Syria and supports "terrorists" (otherwise known as rebels) who are fighting against Syria's government.

I don't feel comfortable bringing a whole bunch of people who probably hate our guts into the country. Many of them are one emotional ISIS propaganda video away from blowing themselves up in the name of Islam on Times Square. This shit has nothing to do with Irish, we are at war with Syria.

but you seem to have much for faith than i do that simply living in america will convince them that the violence inherent in islam is bad

Yeah, that's because I use this thing called logic.

We have a few million Muslims living in America. Surely at least a few hundred thousand of those more moderate Muslims are descended very recently (one or two generations) from strict fundamentalists. We have evidence of how they've mellowed out, and of how much (how little) violence they do.

Okay now tell me about Fort Hood, Boston Marathon etc. Yes - these do exist, and as I explained elsewhere - I understand that it's counter intuitive to be willing to tolerate the risk of increasing that - although it's hard to see how 10,000 highly vetted Syrian refugees increase that.

Jesus' message to turn the other cheek might have been counter intuitive too.

marcus says

You say that, but you can not and will not take the time to credibly refute a single one. Hell, you didn't even take the time to read them. Are you trying to be a moron ?

You make incorrect assumptions and you call names, but I will indulge your rudeness anyway.
Here you go

1. Fact Refugees are subject to Department of Homeland Security background checks before arriving in the U.S.

Fact- The FBI and CIA have admitted that the screening process will not pick up any one who has not yet be caught/convicted of any illegal act
Fact - the boston bombers got through.

2. Fact Refugees are processed in conjunction with nine nonprofits, not solely by the government.

Fact- the government has a hefty bill for the resettlement program whether assisted by non profits or not

3. Fact Refugees are sent all over the U.S.

Fact: people live all over the United States- what is the relevance of fact #3?

4. Fact Refugees must pay back the cost of their flight to the U.S.

Fact: they don't have to pay BEFORE they get on the plane
Fact; Many honest well meaning people cant pay their debts. What happens if they can't pay is there a FACT that they get deported if they can't don't pay.
Fact; there are always dishonest people who never intend to pay their debts. Who pays if the honest and dishonest cant/wont pay?

5. Fact Refugees don't get long-term subsidized housing.
Fact After three months they are on their own. What if they can't afford their own non subsidized places? Where do they live? Can we expect that women and children with no skills and no English speaking abilities to do better than millennials with college degrees still living at home. If they don't whose basements do they get to live in?

6.Fact Refugees have to apply for jobs.
Fact: some won't apply, many won't get the jobs they apply for and many won't know HOW to apply. Fact #6 is meaningless

7. Fact The government doesn't track refugees after they arrive.
Fact- while 7 may be true, why would refugees not be tracked when everyone else is!

8. Fact Christian resettlement organizations help refugees of all faiths.

Fact- Christian charity has a long tradition.

I don't get the point of the article other than to try and drum up support for a program that 2/3 of the people don't want for reasons ranging from
-costs
-problems with our own ppl and their social welfare
-lack of trust in the screening and resettlement competence of the US govt
-terrorist threat
-social incompatibility
-racism
The 8 "facts" do nothing to address any of the concerns

marcus says

Come on people. It truly is the least we can do.

"WE" how about YOU. Are they welcome in your home?

smaulgld says

1. Fact Refugees are subject to Department of Homeland Security background checks before arriving in the U.S.

Fact- The FBI and CIA have admitted that the screening process will not pick up any one who has not yet be caught/convicted of any illegal act

Fact - the boston bombers got through.

Apparently you don't know what refuting a fact means.

smaulgld says

2. Fact Refugees are processed in conjunction with nine nonprofits, not solely by the government.

Fact- the government has a hefty bill for the resettlement program whether assisted by non profits or not

Apparently you don't know what refuting a fact means.

I could continue but you didn't refute a single fact. NOT ONE !

So is it that you don't know what a fact is ? OR it it that you don't know what the word refute means ?

marcus says

So is it that you don't know what a fact is ? OR it it that you don't know what the word refute means ?

Correct the facts are still facts and not refuted, but the suppositions for which they stand for are easily refuted

the "facts" were presented for a purpose. The article's intention was not presented to be a collection of facts, but rather to persuade us: "c'mon people, we can do better" the facts are on our side!

smaulgld says

the "facts" were presented for a purpose

Maybe it's just that it's a big topic now and some people want to be informed. Some in the media want to provide information that the consumer of information wants.

One of the facts was that refugees aren't tracked after coming here ? What was the purpose of telling us that fact ?

My guess is that it's that maybe people will argue, "hey, they should be tracked." "they should be on lists of people that can't get guns." or other such perfectly reasonable proposals.

There is a saying, when you assume...etc. I think the first part of that saying applies here.

thunderlips11 says

And every time an immigrant group "Makes it", the Business Community calls them "Lazy Bums" and insists we need a different batch of ethnics to replace them.

"The Cheap Labor must floooooowwwwww."

This is not a cheap labor issue if we are bringing primarily widow and orphans into the country.

marcus says

"hey, they should be tracked." "they should be on lists of people that can't get guns."

that one seemed incongruous to the general theme

Maybe you should have read it before assuming a theme at all.

marcus says

There is a saying, when you assume...etc. I think the first part of that saying applies here.

It is a fair assumption Ms. Welsh, the author of the article, favors the governments refugee program choosing to retweet a #refugeeswelcome tweet

8 Facts About the U.S. Program to Resettle Syrian Refugees https://t.co/d9aXzUDtIF via @tmawelsh @usnews #refugeeswelcome

— HIAS (@HIASrefugees) November 24, 2015

It is also obvious that you posted the article to inform us of the "facts" to help persuade us to accept more refugees. "Come on people. It truly is the least we can do."
res ipsa loquitur

marcus says

Maybe you should have read it before assuming a theme at all.

Maybe you shouldn't assert that I didn't read it before offering advise on my assumptions

smaulgld says

Fact - the boston bombers got through.

As did Kurbanov.
http://patrick.net/?p=1287194&c=1244469#comment-1244469

We also missed these Bosniak War Criminals

WASHINGTON — Immigration officials are moving to deport at least 150 Bosnians living in the United States who they believe took part in war crimes and “ethnic cleansing” during the bitter conflict that raged in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

In all, officials have identified about 300 immigrants who they believe concealed their involvement in wartime atrocities when they came to the United States as part of a wave of Bosnian war refugees fleeing the violence there. With more records from Bosnia becoming available, the officials said the number of suspects could eventually top 600.

“The more we dig, the more documents we find,” said Michael MacQueen, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement historian who has led many investigations in the agency’s war crimes section. The accused immigrants, many of them former soldiers from Bosnia, include a soccer coach in Virginia, a metal worker in Ohio and four hotel casino workers in Las Vegas.

smaulgld says

Fact After three months they are on their own. What if they can't afford their own non subsidized places? Where do they live? Can we expect that women and children with no skills and no English speaking abilities to do better than millennials with college degrees still living at home. If they don't whose basements do they get to live in?

Tee hee hee. Anybody who believes large numbers fresh off the boat monoglot Arabic speakers are going to pay their own way in three months without Welfare Benefits, please donate to my "Thunderlips Assistance Fund", PO Box 123, Newark, NJ 07104. Donations not tax deductible.

marcus says

Obama, for his part, said in remarks on Nov. 19 in the Philippines that the “overwhelming numbers who have been applying are children, women, families —

I say it again. Are you saying women are not strong enough to be terrorists? Are you sexist?

Or children?

smaulgld says

"facts' sounds more like govt paid for propaganda.

Each one of those facts can be refuted by other facts

The only fact worth noting in the link is the source,
U.S. News
lol