patrick.net

marcus says

Even for someone with the lack of reasoning skills that this made up character Fort Wayne pretends to have (or not have),

This is rich. You REALLY have no business accusing others of lacking reasoning skills.

FortWayne says

The only reason she is in jail, since there were other ways to handle this, is because the left is flexing their muscle trying to intimidate religious folks into submission.

No, really its not. The only reason this is in the news is because of the subject matter (gay marriage). Fact of the matter is, this is a routine issue which I deal with once every 2 or 3 years. When a county clerk is wrong (sadly, this happens a lot), and I cant get something recorded, I go to court and get a writ of mandamus (basically latin for DO YOUR FUCKING JOB). Problem is, the clerks aren't lawyers, so they sometimes assume their department is their own personal fiefdom, and the writ usually sets them straight.

in my case, I came in with a particular type of transaction which per statute was tax free. Bitchy clerk said, "oh no, that may be the way you do it in the big city, but that's not how we do it in MY county". After I got the writ, she still wouldn't comply, and was giddy about going to court and "exposing" me to "her friend" the judge. She got up on the stand, with a bunch of emo nonsense about freedom, and civic duty. Judge cut her off "Im sorry Linda, none of that matters, that is not why we are here, you either sign the form or I have to throw you in jail for not complying with my order.

It really is that simple. As an elected official no one could fire her, and long before you ever move to impeach or have a special election (a months long process costing 50K in attorneys fees), you have to go the quick and easy route and get your writ of mandamus as was the case here. In any event, kinda like it was with your earlier comments on real estate which are now about ready to explode in your face http://patrick.net/housing/2015+Real+Estate+Prediction there are certain subject matters where you have clearly demonstrated you are simply unqualified to speak. This issue happens to be one of them.

FortWayne says

How did Obama do on the war thing?

Don't try to throw a red herring in here. According to your statement, people shouldn't have to follow orders they find morally reprehensible. I and tens of millions of other Americans find paying taxes that go to unjust wars, drone strikes, and the military industrial complex to be highly morally reprehensible. Are you saying that we should be allowed under law to refuse to pay income taxes? How about not registering with the selective service? That's a moral issue as well.

FortWayne says

What is wrong with anti-drug laws and enforcement, when it saves lives?

It costs lives, innocent lives.

Again, according to YOU any person should be legally allowed to disobey any state order that he or she finds morally reprehensible. Guess what, regardless of whether or not you think the war on drugs is morally, there are tens of millions who think it is extremely morally reprehensible. Should these people be allowed to
- violate drug laws
- hide drug offenders from the police like people hide Jews from the Nazis
- hinder law enforcement efforts

According to YOUR statement, the damn well should be legally allowed to do those things if they find the state orders prohibiting drug usage or enforcing drug bans to be morally reprehensible.

FortWayne says

Your solution to systemic poverty is more poverty through communist style equality.

I haven't presented any solution for you to critique, so you're just pulling shit out of your ass again.

Nonetheless, billions of people on this planet find "greed is good" capitalism to be morally reprehensible including the pope. Yes, that pope.

Funny how everything is communism to dumb-asses with 1950s mentality.

thunderlips11 says

FortWayne says

Liberals aren't known for "morality", Bill Clinton was doing interns left and right, and it was ok with the left.

Clinton was a centralist, not a liberal by any measure. And as for morality, liberals beat conservatives every day, every year, every century.

Conservatives enslaved people. Liberals set them free.
Conservatives raped child slaves. Liberals stop that.
Conservatives abused children in sweatshops. Liberals got child labor laws passed.
Conservatives practiced segregation. Liberals stopped that.
Conservatives denied minorities the right to vote. Liberals ensured all adults get to vote.
Conservatives constantly want war. Liberals strive for world peace.
Conservatives pollute the Earth killing people through diseases, famine, floods, and miscarriages. Liberals strive to maintain the planet.

Conservatives are just plain evil. There is no comparison.

FortWayne says

It's conservatives who simply want our nation to stick to morality, and it's usually liberals who want to let every pervert do everything they please. And when perverts win, it's how societies fall, just like Roman empire decayed when it's morality fell apart.

If conservatives had any moral backbone, they would never had embraced slavery. They wouldn't have committed a multitude of genocides. They wouldn't have tortured, raped, and murder not only prisoners in Gitmo but also of children in the U.S. That's the morality you conservatives profess.

And as for Rome, it fell because it tried to rule the entire world. Conservatives are doing to the U.S. what they did to Rome, weakening it by over-expanding using excessive military force.

And Rome was never morally sound. It practices slavery, rape of conquered people, and the gory death of humans for pleasure in the Colosseum. For you to say that it was every a moral empire shows how perverted your sense of morality is.

Dan8267 says

I and tens of millions of other Americans find paying taxes that go to unjust wars, drone strikes, and the military industrial complex to be highly morally reprehensible. Are you saying that we should be allowed under law to refuse to pay income taxes?

That's the point Dan. MLK did just that, he disobeyed orders which he thought were immoral.

FortWayne says

MLK did just that, he disobeyed orders which he thought were immoral.

MLK went to jail. The point you were making was that Kim Davis should not be subject to arrest.

I presented five situations where people have very serious moral objections to the law. Grow a pair of balls and clearly state which of these five should not be illegal if you morally object to the law. Hell, start with this one. Should people be legally allowed to disobey anti-drug laws that they find morally objectionable like growing pot in their backyard?

As of today she has been released. Praise the Lord!!!!

FortWayne says

As of today she has been released. Praise the Lord!!!!

Which one-Allah, Jesus, Jehovah, Shiva or Satan. For all you know the 4 time married woman has secretly embraced Satan-do you think a pious Christian would break her vows of marriage that she took before the Lord?

Religion is silly.

Fixing the title of this post: "Jailing civil officials who refuse to uphold their sworn duty ... has begun."

In the private or public sector, if you have a problem with your job, or object to it on moral grounds, your employment is by choice. Leave. You don't get to obstruct services due to your personal beliefs. There are other forums for that.

Church and state are separate, and if you cannot figure that out, you don't belong in any public official capacity. This lady is a few peanuts short a full jar. God doesn't bless us all with the same capacity, and I know it is her burden to bear, so I am forgiving. Her sentence was just.

lostand confused says

Which one-Allah, Jesus, Jehovah, Shiva or Satan. For all you know the 4 time married woman has secretly embraced Satan-do you think a pious Christian would break her vows of marriage that she took before the Lord?

You are an atheist I get it, but if you don't understand Christians you are not doing yourself any favors L&C.

They jailed her for being a Christian all right, and now she is freed thanks to the lord, god looks out for his children :)

FortWayne says

You are an atheist I get it, but if you don't understand Christians you are not doing yourself any favors L&C.

They jailed her for being a Christian all right, and now she is freed thanks to the lord, god looks out for his children

Nope I believe in God/something bigger than myself. I just don't take anybody else's word for it-I believe it is a force far greater than any puny little human can ever understand. maybe the soul may feel the presence,but I think it is beyond our comprehension. Just like an ant cannot comprehend the solar system. I believe people who believe in one certain way are arrogant and/or deluded-how can you even pretend to know the entire universe, God, all of creation, what the Lord intended for every being in all of his creation. Humans may have tried to interpret it in their circumstances and hence most Gods resemble the people who worship them-with some superhuman strengths.

Now I think Christians are the one doing themselves a disservice by rallying around a 4 time married woman who had babies out of wedlock and slapped and hit her baby daddy.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/09/kim-davis-violence-restraining-order-baby-daddy-gay-marriage/

By tying Chirtianity to her level and saying she is the embodiment of Christianity, you are sinking the religion and making all Christians look bad. it is just like Muslims-what si the first thing you think of when you think Muslim-Jihadi nut jobs -the same thing by tying Christians to this hypocritical nutjob -you are saying Christians are like this-4 times married nutjobs who have children out of wedlock, beat up their baby daddies and then refuse to sign a certificate and claim their refusal is the same as some great sacrifice.

I have no illusions and not arrogant enough to think that I know God's plan and his/her will and that one small book covers everything in this universe and beyond , every star, every planet and who knows what else is out there?

That is the problem-the dems have established a feminazi and welfare paradise. The repubs want to establish a Christian theocracy-minus the "bad" behaviors they indulge in.
Where is the freedom lover supposed to turn to??

lostand confused says

That is the problem-the dems have established a feminazi and welfare paradise. The repubs want to establish a Christian theocracy-minus the "bad" behaviors they indulge in.

Where is the freedom lover supposed to turn to??

I think both of those are unfair characterizations of what the parties want. The extremism and sensationalism would have you believe it though. (it may only be marginally more true for the Right, right now, but that won't last long.)

Marriage is the union of one Christian with one pagan. Same religion marriages should not be allowed lest society collapse.

lostand confused says

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/09/kim-davis-violence-restraining-order-baby-daddy-gay-marriage/

Bwhahaha. Man, why do Men fight like hell over Grade Z broads like this.

lostand confused says

Now I think Christians are the one doing themselves a disservice by rallying around a 4 time married woman who had babies out of wedlock and slapped and hit her baby daddy.

All Democrats end up a Republican... eventually.

thunderlips11 says

Bwhahaha. Man, why do Men fight like hell over Grade Z broads like this.

Conservatives haven't learned the lesson from either Clive Bundy or George Zimmerman Careful when you pick conservative heroes. They tend to turn out to be assholes.

Incarcerate all Christian swine eaters. These Triple Pig Biscuit eaters (ham,bacon,sausage) are unclean.
Burn in hell after you die in prison.
EVIL FUCKS!

lostand confused says

By tying Chirtianity to her level and saying she is the embodiment of Christianity, you are sinking the religion and making all Christians look bad.

I don't believe what they say about her on the news. Usually when left or right dislike someone, they just make stuff up about them that they think would make them look bad. It's been done for so long and so often, every time literally, that I just simply ignore every media criticism or attack of someone's moral character.

Think about it, right called Obama a gay muslim communist, they called Romney some very unsavory stuff too, same thing... they were just lying. So because of the history of this sort of bull in the media, I just don't believe that she is as bad as they claim. Isn't that what they call "character assassination." It's the first thing left and right do in the media.

Well, her history of serial divorces is Public Record; that she followed her Mommy as a political dynasty is also a fact (although that's the idiocy of the voter, but then again, who arses themselves to learn about Clerk candidates? I don't).

thunderlips11 says

Well, her history of serial divorces is Public Record; that she followed her Mommy as a political dynasty is also a fact (although that's the idiocy of the voter, but then again, who arses themselves to learn about Clerk candidates? I don't).

True, but why is that being brought up over and over again? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just so that the haters can scream "Hypocrisy" whereas for a different multiple divorcee they may gang up on you pointing out the same fact telling you that you are an asshole trying to imprison a woman inside an abusive marriage. Further religion is very personal and people interpret scriptures and beliefs differently all the time, so maybe for her divorcing is ok but gay marriage is not, so what? We all know that by law she brought this unto herself but they also resolved it, so the case really should be closed now, nobody got hurt and FW is happy she is out of jail. Let's move on.

It's totally relevant. The Bible is unequivocal about divorce in almost all circumstances. Children out of wedlock also unequivocally a sin in the Bible. These verses aren't poetic phrases like "Consider the lillies of the field.", the verses are plain, not subject to any loss of meaning in translation, boldfaced prohibitions or declarations of sin for these actions.

Yet she upholds the anti-gay stuff as compelling her to break the law. Why hasn't the divorce and no bastard stuff compelled her?

Because she likes to screw different dudes and can't maintain a stable relationship, but she's not gay, it doesn't effect her, so that's why she's committed to no gays. It's no skin off her back to enforce the Bible Verses that don't apply to her, but ignore those that do.

This is not a lady who got knocked up at 17, but then became a committed Christian the rest of her life. This is somebody who while they professed to be a Bible Believing Christian, while filing for multiple divorces and having kids out of wedlock.

Being a hypocrite is totally relevant. She puts herself forward as a Bible-believing Christian compelled to follow the Bible. She doesn't, and she doesn't repeatedly in other things. Why all of a sudden take a stand on one issue among many in the Bible?

She's a woman of straw, only strong in things that don't effect her.

thunderlips11 says

Being a hypocrite is totally relevant. She puts herself forward as a Bible-believing Christian compelled to follow the Bible. She doesn't, and she doesn't repeatedly in other things. Why all of a sudden take a stand on one issue among many in the Bible?

At least one person disagrees with the screamers:

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/is-kim-davis-a-hypocrite/

Haven't read it all but dude seems to have put some thought into it. It's not that easy.

mell says

True, but why is that being brought up over and over again? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just so that the haters can scream "Hypocrisy" whereas for a different

She is the hater imposing her beliefs on other people-despite her job description. Since she is trying to impose her belief on others-others will question her belief/conduct.

Now if she was a one time married woman trying to impose her will on divorces-while she ate shellfish -people will complain about her selfishness.

You are entitled to your belief-but you are not as a gubmnt official to impose your belief on others in violation of the law of the land. If you cannot in true conscience do your job-then quit.

It is simple -you cannot break a few Christian beliefs and selectively enforce others.

"Comments are closed."

I'm not surprised that's the case on this above linked blogpost, given the pomposity and that winding non-answer. Ask any Catholic how easy it is to get an annulment, much less a divorce, in the eyes of the Church. If Davis was a Catholic - and she isn't - I doubt she would have the blessing to be divorced three times.

As a non-Catholic, self admitted Bible Bible believing Christian, she falls under Matt 5:31-32.
"31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

If she received a divorce for any other reason (inc. No Fault) than adultery, she's an adulterer according to the plain text of the NT.

Then there's Matt 19:3-12:
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?
6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
12 For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

It's not an accident that neither Civil nor Religious authorities in the Western World granted very few divorces prior to the 19th Century. Passages likes these made it clear that reasons for Divorce were extremely limited. It was the universal Christian reading - Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox - since the 5th Century AD.

We allow divorces today for secular, civil reasons, not because they are okay in the Bible.

"Listen guys, for the next few days before my Crucifixion, I want to remind you the Law is in effect."
"We don't eat pork anyway, Jesus. And we keep the Sabbath. We're Jews, we have been all our lives."
"I know, but I just wanted to remind you not to take a jot or title away from the Law for the next few hours."
"We didn't plan too, anyway it's not like there's shrimp cocktail on offer or that anything is Open on Saturday in Jewish Palestine, but... okay Master."

lostand confused says

She is the hater imposing her beliefs

Disagree, you know nothing about that woman except for intolerance towards gay marriage and intolerance != hate. We are all intolerant of things. She may be hating gay people as well but not stating it, but that's speculation. Whereas the publicly voiced hate by all the screamers is out in the open, they hate her for her intolerance and wish that she rots in jail. Fine, love and hate are part of life, but hate is actively ill-wishing onto someone or facilitating bodily or financial harm or imprisonment and she hasn't shown any of that.

thunderlips11 says

We allow divorces today for secular, civil reasons, not because they are okay in the Bible.

You may be right, I'm not a bible expert. Also I never disputed the consequences of the law hitting her, for me it was a petty crime, for some it was a human atrocity. Next time you say something about any socially patrolled group and somebody accuses you of racism, misogyny, or animal abuse or whatever and wants consequences for them hating you for your hate, tell them we're all intolerant ;)

mell says

Disagree, you know nothing about that woman except for intolerance towards gay marriage and intolerance != hate. We are all intolerant of things. She may be hating gay people as well but not stating it, but that's speculation

I was responding to you calling her critics as hatersmell says

it's just so that the haters can scream "Hypocrisy"

So anybody calling her hypocrisy is a hater and that is absolute truth and her not letting people marry is open to speculation. odd position to take.

mell says

wants consequences for them hating you for your hate, tell them we're all intolerant

There is nothing wrong with being a hater. the KKK is legal. But when you disobey the law, refuse to quit and disobey a court order-you will be jailed for contempt. That has got nothing to do with religion, if you don't pay a traffic ticket and go to court and then tell the judge you will not pay, because you believe in the Lord and his word is higher than the legal system-he will throw you in jail. Simple as that-why you want make this into a war on Christians narrative-I surely don't know.

Mind you all the traffic tickets I got , I don't think I deserved-I once got one for going 1mph over the speed limit in NV with very few cars there. I was mad as hell, but if I do not pay I would have my license revoked and a warrant against me-end of story-you fight within the sytem, work on changing laws or if nothing gives then don't drive on those roads. if I refuse to pay-am I a hero and will Huckabee come and be willing to take my place in jail??

lostand confused says

But when you disobey the law, refuse to quit and disobey a court order-you will be jailed for contempt.

There are exceptions to everything L&C. Even laws aren't always obeyed the same way.

Somebody I don't agree with does their taxpayer funded job, great, they can wear a tinfoil hat and talk about Martian Mind Control and the Coming of the Great Comet with Dr. Funkenstein aboard for all I care. She can be a Bible Hypocrite all she likes, it's when she imposes it on others that there is a problem.

Words are words, she can scream and be screamed at endlessly and hatefully. So long as no bullets or punches.

Anything less would be Social Justice Warriorism and Lowest Common Denominator. "Punish this person for offending me!"

lostand confused says

But when you disobey the law, refuse to quit and disobey a court order-you will be jailed for contempt.

Nobody disputed this.

lostand confused says

Simple as that-why you want make this into a war on Christians narrative-I surely don't know.

Mind you all the traffic tickets I got , I don't think I deserved-I once got one for going 1mph over the speed limit in NV with very few cars there. I was mad as hell, but if I do not pay I would have my license revoked and a warrant against me-end of story-you fight within the sytem, work on changing laws or if nothing gives then don't drive on those roads. if I refuse to pay-am I a hero and will Huckabee come and be willing to take my place in jail??

She may have a knack for a hero complex but it's hard to tell who sensationalized this non-issue first. Laws are broken every day, and mostly in much more significant and violent ways, yet nobody gives a shit. Only when it's somebody not following the dictated social narrative it becomes all out war, be it that you shoot an animal or show intolerance towards some minority group. Sure FW started this thread with a dramatic title and people have pointed out the law, but if you read through the comments and try to glean who is hating and who isn't the picture is pretty clear. Same on social media:

https://twitter.com/hausofpd/status/639497473959006208

thunderlips11 says

Words are words, she can scream and be screamed at endlessly and hatefully. So long as no bullets or punches.

Anything less would be Social Justice Warriorism and Lowest Common Denominator. "Punish this person for offending me!"

I agree, I don't want anybody to be punished for being offensive. But keep in mind that is her who is receiving death and kidnapping threats from the fallout, not the couple(s) she declined to marry.

mell says

Laws are broken every day, and mostly in much more significant and violent ways, yet nobody gives a shit. Only when it's somebody not following the dictated social narrative it becomes all out war, be it that you shoot an animal or show intolerance towards some minority group

Laws are broken everyday and no one cares-yes. But when the lawbreaker says God's law is greater than man's law and that she is obeying God's law and man's law does not matter-it is every scary-because that is what the Taliban and the Jihadis say. She must be ridiculed and her hypocrisy exposed, else we will become the Christian version of the Taliban-where religious folks decide what is right and wrong and who lives or dies-their faith can never be questioned and they do whatever they want , but demand others follow their dictats.

mell says

I agree, I don't want anybody to be punished for being offensive. But keep in mind that is her who is receiving death and kidnapping threats from the fallout, not the couple(s) she declined to marry.

Meh, the internet is full of bloviators and 13-year old boys hurling insults and even death threats at each other.

Every SJW whines that 1 email out of 100 is something like "Heyz, Bitch, Iz gonna git you like the Plasma Gun on Half-Life 3, yeah. Pour molten glass in yer rectum like the Gwar Song!!!!11!Elventy!". Other people get those emails and just delete them, rolling their eyes.

So I don't get arsed about death threats to most people, these days it really means "I get a ridiculous misspelled email from some JHS turd."

FortWayne says

Jailing of Christians has began in US

That's because persecution of gays has not ended in US.
Leave them alone. They have done nothing to hurt you.

By the way, Kim Davis has caved in, and is back to work. She chose her freedom over God.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/09/14/kentucky-clerk-jailed-over-gay-marriage-to-return-to-work/21235468/

Yup fiduciary assfucking at it's finest.
Activist Lawyers create a shit pile where none existed, troll for extolled virtues, sue the shit out of them for being politically incorect. Then Sue the State because after all they could have been spending their time doing other things than policing people's thoughts. That's the States job, so we tax payers should reimburse them.

It's all in the list of shit that we'll get to in the quest to MAGA this shit.

Trump has already made 40,000 of those useless Obama staffers unemployed. Wait until the States next Gubernatorial elections are all about MOSGA Make Our State Great Again. And those Governors apply that same drain the swamp logic to State level government.
Staffers, Regulatory bodies, Compliance officers for regulations and mandates that cripple states are sent packing.
Then when Trump get's his filthy hands on SCOUS and puts MAGA Judges in to replace the Stiffs about to depart from SCOTUS...

Those Judiciary Shyster Lawyers will be showing up at court with their Dicks in their hands.

Oooh WEEEE there's going to be some SHIT up in HERE!

anonymous says

State of Kentucky must pay nearly $225,000 in legal fees for Kim Davis case

The couples who sued Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis in 2015 for the right to be granted marriage licenses are entitled to nearly $225,000 in legal fees and court costs, and the state of Kentucky — not Davis herself or Rowan County — must pay them, a federal judge ruled Friday.

Although Kentucky county clerks are elected at the county level, the Rowan County Fiscal Court had no influence over Davis’ decision in summer 2015 to protest the legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States by refusing to issue marriage licenses to anyone, U.S. District Judge David Bunning wrote in his decision. Therefore, it would be unfair to hold the county government responsible for her actions, Bunning wrote.

“Davis represented the Commonwealth of Kentucky when she refused to issue marriage licenses to legally eligible couples. The buck stops there,” Bunning wrote.

“It is unfortunate th...

What about Kim Davis? she needs to be sued too? Any knows on that?

Stupid Republicans in Kentucky will have to pay just like the retards in Kans-ass.