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Is the Multiple Listing Service a Dead Dinosaur?
invite response
2014 Nov 17, 2:12am 3,645 views 41 comments
« First « Previous Comments 3 - 41 of 41 Search these comments
3
Tenpoundbass
2014 Nov 17, 5:46am
Tenpoundbass
2014 Nov 17, 5:46am
NO tragedy has been averted. It almost came to pass, but then the NAR stepped up and controlled Zillow then bought out Trulia so now when you browse those sites you're pretty much browsing MLS data.
Finding that gem that hasn't been listed yet, is now impossible, there's just not any informative RE websites that's not controlled by the MLS.
4
Blurtman
2014 Nov 17, 6:17am
It's about time someone breaks MLS monopoly and ends the 6% agents commission robbery ! In Europe it's 1%.
NO tragedy has been averted. It almost came to pass, but then the NAR stepped up and controlled Zillow then bought out Trulia so now when you browse those sites you're pretty much browsing MLS data.
Finding that gem that hasn't been listed yet, is now impossible, there's just not any informative RE websites that's not controlled by the MLS.
Yes, of course the MLS is very successful. But it's days may be numbered just like the newspaper business, as technology marches on.
And from what little I understand, it is NAR/realtor.com versus Zillow/Trulia, and likely many more RE portals in the wings. No barriers.
"NAR said to ask regulators to stop Zillow’s acquisition of Trulia
The National Association of Realtors reportedly wants federal antitrust
regulators to block Zillow’s planned acquisition of Trulia, but there are no signs that the Federal Trade Commission plans to intervene."
http://www.inman.com/2014/08/18/nar-said-to-ask-regulators-to-stop-zillows-acquisition-of-trulia/
6
Booger
2023 Aug 21, 3:08pm
Booger
2023 Aug 21, 3:08pm
https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/national-realtors-database-hack-disrupts-real-estate-industry-forces-return-to-traditional-methods-rapattoni-multiple-listing-service-mls-zillow-realtor-trulia
National realtor's database hack disrupts real estate industry, forces return to traditional methods
National realtor's database hack disrupts real estate industry, forces return to traditional methods
7
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 3:52pm
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 3:52pm
Tenpoundbass says
How does the MLS control Zillow?
NO tragedy has been averted. It almost came to pass, but then the NAR stepped up and controlled Zillow then bought out Trulia so now when you browse those sites you're pretty much browsing MLS data.
Finding that gem that hasn't been listed yet, is now impossible, there's just not any informative RE websites that's not controlled by the MLS.
How does the MLS control Zillow?
8
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 3:56pm
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 3:56pm
Many people have tried to upend the MLS applecart and many have failed. Realtors are required to submit ALL listings onto the MLS. Period. IMO, it starts and ends there. Not only that but the MLS gains worldwide, nonexclusive and unlimited (time) usage of anything Realtors upload (photos) to the MLS. This is a big deal because Realtors will not take the time to upload the photos anywhere else since the listings get syndicated to many outlets. It starts and ends with the MLS.
My company is in the process of completing an api that will upload/transfer photos, floor plans and links from my site to the MLS. Realtors will no longer have to download and/or copy their imagery to their computers and then upload to the MLS.
My company is in the process of completing an api that will upload/transfer photos, floor plans and links from my site to the MLS. Realtors will no longer have to download and/or copy their imagery to their computers and then upload to the MLS.
9
HeadSet
2023 Aug 21, 7:09pm
HeadSet
2023 Aug 21, 7:09pm
GNL says
Yes, and until you figure out how to appeal to buyers you will fail. That is, the overwhelming number of serious buyers will not look for houses on their own, they will call an agent. The best we can hope for in a normal market is a flat fee to list and 3% to the selling agent.
Many people have tried to upend the MLS applecart and many have failed
Yes, and until you figure out how to appeal to buyers you will fail. That is, the overwhelming number of serious buyers will not look for houses on their own, they will call an agent. The best we can hope for in a normal market is a flat fee to list and 3% to the selling agent.
10
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 7:31pm
GNL
2023 Aug 21, 7:31pm
I believe you'd have to convince buyers, sellers and agents that they don't need the NAR. A real estate agent isn't always a Realtor but a Realtor is always a real estate agent. You don't need a Realtor but you do need a real estate agent.
11
Patrick
2023 Aug 21, 7:54pm
Patrick
2023 Aug 21, 7:54pm
One of the things I learned working at Trulia/Zillow is that there is not just one MLS.
It's a confederation of a zillion small listing sites, which don't even all have the same upload and download formats.
The fractured nature of the MLS systems was a big problem at Trulia, because they wanted the listings but some MLS organizations refused to cooperate, leaving holes in the Trulia data.
The business model is that Trulia gets the attention of sheep (buyers) and then sells buyer info to the wolves (realtors).
It's a confederation of a zillion small listing sites, which don't even all have the same upload and download formats.
The fractured nature of the MLS systems was a big problem at Trulia, because they wanted the listings but some MLS organizations refused to cooperate, leaving holes in the Trulia data.
The business model is that Trulia gets the attention of sheep (buyers) and then sells buyer info to the wolves (realtors).
13
zzyzzx
2023 Aug 22, 4:59am
zzyzzx
2023 Aug 22, 4:59am
HeadSet says
This. And the thing is a buyer's agent is utterly useless too. The only reason I used one when I bought was because it was a VA house and it's a requirement to pay the cartel.
Yes, and until you figure out how to appeal to buyers you will fail. That is, the overwhelming number of serious buyers will not look for houses on their own, they will call an agent. The best we can hope for in a normal market is a flat fee to list and 3% to the selling agent.
This. And the thing is a buyer's agent is utterly useless too. The only reason I used one when I bought was because it was a VA house and it's a requirement to pay the cartel.
14
GNL
2023 Aug 22, 6:19am
GNL
2023 Aug 22, 6:19am
Patrick says
I believe this helps prove my point. The MLS will always have the best information because Realtors are required to list their properties to the MLS. Well, not all FSBOs will be listed there as well as listings held by real estate agents (you do not have to be a Realtor to sell a home. You only have to be a real estate agent working for a brokerage. If I'm incorrect, @Wookieman can correct me).
One of the things I learned working at Trulia/Zillow is that there is not just one MLS.
It's a confederation of a zillion small listing sites, which don't even all have the same upload and download formats.
The fractured nature of the MLS systems was a big problem at Trulia, because they wanted the listings but some MLS organizations refused to cooperate, leaving holes in the Trulia data.
The business model is that Trulia gets the attention of sheep (buyers) and then sells buyer info to the wolves (realtors).
I believe this helps prove my point. The MLS will always have the best information because Realtors are required to list their properties to the MLS. Well, not all FSBOs will be listed there as well as listings held by real estate agents (you do not have to be a Realtor to sell a home. You only have to be a real estate agent working for a brokerage. If I'm incorrect, @Wookieman can correct me).
15
HeadSet
2023 Aug 22, 8:21am
HeadSet
2023 Aug 22, 8:21am
GNL says
In Virginia, and likely most other places, you must be a licensed real estate agent working for a broker to market someone else's home and collect a commission. To become a real estate agent you must pass a written test and background check. Over time, an agent also must also do some continuing education. To become a broker that can supervise these agents, one must have 3 years of full-time experience plus complete further education and testing.
(you do not have to be a Realtor to sell a home. You only have to be a real estate agent working for a brokerage.
In Virginia, and likely most other places, you must be a licensed real estate agent working for a broker to market someone else's home and collect a commission. To become a real estate agent you must pass a written test and background check. Over time, an agent also must also do some continuing education. To become a broker that can supervise these agents, one must have 3 years of full-time experience plus complete further education and testing.
16
GNL
2023 Aug 22, 8:54am
GNL
2023 Aug 22, 8:54am
HeadSet says
As I understand it, that is correct. BUT you don't have to belong to the NAR or be a Realtor to sell/market someone else's home. BUT, in that case, you won't have access to the MLS.
This is where I thought Zillow had an inroad. Become a national broker -> give Realtors a better deal than the NAR by eliminating/reducing the fees they pay -> require all real estate agents list on Zillow.
It could work, imo, except it would take Zillow a long time to recover whatever revenue streams they have right now. A HUGE gamble.
GNL says
(you do not have to be a Realtor to sell a home. You only have to be a real estate agent working for a brokerage.
In Virginia, and likely most other places, you must be a licensed real estate agent working for a broker to market someone else's home and collect a commission. To become a real estate agent you must pass a written test and background check. Over time, an agent also must also do some continuing education. To become a broker that can supervise these agents, one must have 3 years of full-time experience plus complete further education and testing.
As I understand it, that is correct. BUT you don't have to belong to the NAR or be a Realtor to sell/market someone else's home. BUT, in that case, you won't have access to the MLS.
This is where I thought Zillow had an inroad. Become a national broker -> give Realtors a better deal than the NAR by eliminating/reducing the fees they pay -> require all real estate agents list on Zillow.
It could work, imo, except it would take Zillow a long time to recover whatever revenue streams they have right now. A HUGE gamble.
19
EBGuy
2023 Aug 22, 5:13pm
This is wild. Thanks for the heads up booger.
Cyberattack on NorCal MLS provider drags on for 19th day
Site producer Rapattoni says “certain essential components” missing to restore service
A cyberattack on MLS listing sites in Northern California and elsewhere drags on with no date to restore access from Rapattoni, according to emails from the Westlake Village software firm reviewed by The Real Deal.
A message from Rapattoni to its customers said that it had hoped to restore service on Aug. 20. “Rapattoni had hoped to bring all MLS systems back online today,” the email states, “but certain essential components are requiring more time to complete the restoration process,” said a message signed by Kimberly Proudfoot, Rapattoni’s director of support.
In an Aug. 18 email, the software company told customers they were “days, not weeks, away from being able to bring up your ‘core’ MLS system.”
Once the core service is restored, MLS users would be able to add and edit listings, search and map listings, and syndicate data to consumer sites, the email said.
No comps? No problem!
Cyberattack on NorCal MLS provider drags on for 19th day
Site producer Rapattoni says “certain essential components” missing to restore service
A cyberattack on MLS listing sites in Northern California and elsewhere drags on with no date to restore access from Rapattoni, according to emails from the Westlake Village software firm reviewed by The Real Deal.
A message from Rapattoni to its customers said that it had hoped to restore service on Aug. 20. “Rapattoni had hoped to bring all MLS systems back online today,” the email states, “but certain essential components are requiring more time to complete the restoration process,” said a message signed by Kimberly Proudfoot, Rapattoni’s director of support.
In an Aug. 18 email, the software company told customers they were “days, not weeks, away from being able to bring up your ‘core’ MLS system.”
Once the core service is restored, MLS users would be able to add and edit listings, search and map listings, and syndicate data to consumer sites, the email said.
No comps? No problem!
20
Patrick
2023 Aug 22, 8:59pm
Patrick
2023 Aug 22, 8:59pm
GNL says
@GNL Yes, I'm pretty sure that was Zillow's plan, but it terrified both the realtors and the NAR, and Zillow needs them. So it failed.
This is where I thought Zillow had an inroad. Become a national broker -> give Realtors a better deal than the NAR by eliminating/reducing the fees they pay -> require all real estate agents list on Zillow.
@GNL Yes, I'm pretty sure that was Zillow's plan, but it terrified both the realtors and the NAR, and Zillow needs them. So it failed.
22
HeadSet
2023 Aug 23, 6:56am
HeadSet
2023 Aug 23, 6:56am
GNL says
Zillow just appears to be an aggregate site for realtors. The listing agent still get his/her split from the commission if the house is sold. Really no different than the real estate flyer booklets of old one picked up for free at the corner store.
Zillow needs them? For images, correct?
Zillow just appears to be an aggregate site for realtors. The listing agent still get his/her split from the commission if the house is sold. Really no different than the real estate flyer booklets of old one picked up for free at the corner store.
24
zzyzzx
2023 Oct 2, 10:34am
zzyzzx
2023 Oct 2, 10:34am
https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/comments/16xh8tc/buyers_dog_shit_in_my_listing/
Buyer’s Dog took a Shit in my Listing
Yup, title pretty much says it. An agent called me to tattle on another agent who was showing my listing - they were both their with their clients at the same time. As I was told, the one agent left her clients take their dog inside on a leash. The dog had diarrhea and the owner took it on the upstairs balcony to shit again. The water was off so they didn’t do a good job of cleaning it up. And it was reported that the house smelled like crap. I called the agent and told her in no uncertain terms to not allow dogs into homes she is showing, like wtf, and where exactly did the dog shit so we can clean it up. (I should have insisted they go back and clean it up, but I don’t trust them now). Her client got on the phone to say “well your bear deterrent dog barking alarm scared my dog and he went to the bathroom!” I barely let her finish and said what the hell are you doing walking your dog into someone else’s house in the first place?? She said “don’t interrupt me!” Ok Karen. Way to be accountable. Does it really need to be said in the listing to not allow dogs at showings? Are we really this entitled that we must enter homes for sale with our dogs? The agent said I tried to stop them. C’mon, seriously? I’ve been in this situation a few times, and I assure you no dogs have entered the house I was showing unless it was a little dog being held. Put it back in the car, or one person go in while the other watches the dog and then switch off.
Buyer’s Dog took a Shit in my Listing
Yup, title pretty much says it. An agent called me to tattle on another agent who was showing my listing - they were both their with their clients at the same time. As I was told, the one agent left her clients take their dog inside on a leash. The dog had diarrhea and the owner took it on the upstairs balcony to shit again. The water was off so they didn’t do a good job of cleaning it up. And it was reported that the house smelled like crap. I called the agent and told her in no uncertain terms to not allow dogs into homes she is showing, like wtf, and where exactly did the dog shit so we can clean it up. (I should have insisted they go back and clean it up, but I don’t trust them now). Her client got on the phone to say “well your bear deterrent dog barking alarm scared my dog and he went to the bathroom!” I barely let her finish and said what the hell are you doing walking your dog into someone else’s house in the first place?? She said “don’t interrupt me!” Ok Karen. Way to be accountable. Does it really need to be said in the listing to not allow dogs at showings? Are we really this entitled that we must enter homes for sale with our dogs? The agent said I tried to stop them. C’mon, seriously? I’ve been in this situation a few times, and I assure you no dogs have entered the house I was showing unless it was a little dog being held. Put it back in the car, or one person go in while the other watches the dog and then switch off.
25
AD
2023 Oct 2, 11:26am
AD
2023 Oct 2, 11:26am
When we sell our townhome I would not mind paying the 5% real estate fee (split 2.5% to buyer's and seller's agents) in order to help protect me as a buyer from real estate investor sharks, scam artists, etc. as well as make the selling process easy.
And I assume my agent will be honest and transparent and not try to hide offers from me because it is from a different real estate company.
And I assume my agent will be honest and transparent and not try to hide offers from me because it is from a different real estate company.
26
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 12:01pm
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 12:01pm
ad says
How are you going to know?
When we sell our townhome I would not mind paying the 5% real estate fee (split 2.5% to buyer's and seller's agents) in order to help protect me as a buyer from real estate investor sharks, scam artists, etc. as well as make the selling process easy.
And I assume my agent will be honest and transparent and not try to hide offers from me because it is from a different real estate company.
How are you going to know?
27
WookieMan
2023 Oct 2, 12:06pm
WookieMan
2023 Oct 2, 12:06pm
GNL says
It comes from brokers that pay for zip code advertising. We know there's 10k zip codes. Sell the top 5 spots per zip code at $3-5k per year and do the math. You're looking at $40M+ for a website that is aggregated BY the MLS. They pay 5-10 software engineers to run that because MLS systems just give them the data.
They also sell premium listings and shit like that. I don't like brokers, but IDX has been the worst thing for Realtors. Zillow literally pays a fee and gets all the data AND then charges brokers for leads. Brokers are too dumb and pay the fees by zip code or lead. This is one realm I'd side with brokers getting fucked over. But they also fuck over sellers and buyers, so I don't care anymore. I'm out of the cesspool.
Where does Zillows revenue stream come from?
It comes from brokers that pay for zip code advertising. We know there's 10k zip codes. Sell the top 5 spots per zip code at $3-5k per year and do the math. You're looking at $40M+ for a website that is aggregated BY the MLS. They pay 5-10 software engineers to run that because MLS systems just give them the data.
They also sell premium listings and shit like that. I don't like brokers, but IDX has been the worst thing for Realtors. Zillow literally pays a fee and gets all the data AND then charges brokers for leads. Brokers are too dumb and pay the fees by zip code or lead. This is one realm I'd side with brokers getting fucked over. But they also fuck over sellers and buyers, so I don't care anymore. I'm out of the cesspool.
28
Patrick
2023 Oct 2, 12:22pm
Patrick
2023 Oct 2, 12:22pm
GNL says
Zillow sells sheep to wolves.
Realtors pay Zillow to get their names in front of buyers.
Where does Zillows revenue stream come from?
Zillow sells sheep to wolves.
Realtors pay Zillow to get their names in front of buyers.
29
desertguy
2023 Oct 2, 1:39pm
Redfin leaving the NAR. Probably just the first of many. Another nail in the coffin of the current real estate model in the US and as far as I'm concerned - good riddance!
https://www.redfin.com/news/redfin-is-leaving-nar/
https://www.redfin.com/news/redfin-is-leaving-nar/
30
WookieMan
2023 Oct 2, 5:43pm
WookieMan
2023 Oct 2, 5:43pm
desertguy says
Wishful thinking. NAR is NOT the MLS system. They're separate dues/fees. Redfin is 100% still in an MLS database. It's (NAR) basically a union and has nothing to do with the MLS. 3rd party vendors run all the MLS data, Realtors don't even control it. Realtor.com isn't even owned by the association.
There are a lot of misconceptions even among active realtors and brokers. They are getting fucked. Hate them all you want, their own industry is fucking them over. Before you sell even one house, spend any marketing money, signs, etc. what do you think the average realtor pays annually to have a license? Not defending shit realtors, but it's not some grandiose lifestyle for 90% of them. It's a decent car payment to hold a license AND you still need a car. In most markets you have to sell 15+ houses to make an okay living, maybe $40-50k net (not high property value areas). It's a shitty living if you don't own the brokerage and can skim off other sales from other agents.
Redfin leaving the NAR. Probably just the first of many. Another nail in the coffin of the current real estate model in the US and as far as I'm concerned - good riddance!
https://www.redfin.com/news/redfin-is-leaving-nar/
Wishful thinking. NAR is NOT the MLS system. They're separate dues/fees. Redfin is 100% still in an MLS database. It's (NAR) basically a union and has nothing to do with the MLS. 3rd party vendors run all the MLS data, Realtors don't even control it. Realtor.com isn't even owned by the association.
There are a lot of misconceptions even among active realtors and brokers. They are getting fucked. Hate them all you want, their own industry is fucking them over. Before you sell even one house, spend any marketing money, signs, etc. what do you think the average realtor pays annually to have a license? Not defending shit realtors, but it's not some grandiose lifestyle for 90% of them. It's a decent car payment to hold a license AND you still need a car. In most markets you have to sell 15+ houses to make an okay living, maybe $40-50k net (not high property value areas). It's a shitty living if you don't own the brokerage and can skim off other sales from other agents.
31
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 6:16pm
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 6:16pm
Here's a question...how does an MLS become THE MLS for the area. Realtors are required to enter their listings into "the" MLS. Does the NAR determine who owns/starts and/or is picked to be "the" MLS for an area?
32
Onvacation
2023 Oct 2, 8:01pm
Onvacation
2023 Oct 2, 8:01pm
RC2006 says
When I was in real estate in the mid '90s, a lot of selling agents wouldn't even look at your offer if it wasn't presented by a Realtor. They're trying to maintain their empire.
I cant believe there are still agents for the buying side.
When I was in real estate in the mid '90s, a lot of selling agents wouldn't even look at your offer if it wasn't presented by a Realtor. They're trying to maintain their empire.
33
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:32pm
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:32pm
GNL says
Central Panhandle Association of Realtors operates the MLS here. I've seen the same in other places where an association operates the MLS, and each RE brokerage was a member of the association.
/
Here's a question...how does an MLS become THE MLS for the area. Realtors are required to enter their listings into "the" MLS. Does the NAR determine who owns/starts and/or is picked to be "the" MLS for an area?
Central Panhandle Association of Realtors operates the MLS here. I've seen the same in other places where an association operates the MLS, and each RE brokerage was a member of the association.
/
34
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 8:37pm
GNL
2023 Oct 2, 8:37pm
ad says
So, the brokers determine who "the" MLS is?
GNL says
Here's a question...how does an MLS become THE MLS for the area. Realtors are required to enter their listings into "the" MLS. Does the NAR determine who owns/starts and/or is picked to be "the" MLS for an area?
Central Panhandle Association of Realtors operates the MLS here. I've seen the same in other places where an association operates the MLS, and each RE brokerage was a member of the association.
/
So, the brokers determine who "the" MLS is?
35
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:38pm
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:38pm
GNL says
The association determines the MLS. And the association is made up of local real estate brokerages. It may give the appearance it is like an exclusive club.
Just like there was an unofficial association of companies like IBM, Intel and Compaq that came up with a design for the USB.
So, the brokers determine who "the" MLS is?
The association determines the MLS. And the association is made up of local real estate brokerages. It may give the appearance it is like an exclusive club.
Just like there was an unofficial association of companies like IBM, Intel and Compaq that came up with a design for the USB.
36
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:43pm
AD
2023 Oct 2, 8:43pm
Its easy to sell on Zillow and Trulia as well as Craigslist if you want to sell by owner.
.
.
37
Patrick
2023 Oct 3, 2:42am
Patrick
2023 Oct 3, 2:42am
ad says
The different MLS systems don't even use compatible data formats with each other.
The association determines the MLS. And the association is made up of local real estate brokerages. It may give the appearance it is like an exclusive club.
Just like there was an unofficial association of companies like IBM, Intel and Compaq that came up with a design for the USB.
The different MLS systems don't even use compatible data formats with each other.
38
GNL
2023 Oct 3, 4:19am
GNL
2023 Oct 3, 4:19am
Partnering with Zillow would fix all those issues. Threaten to pull the data availability and Zillow caves? Can't be that simple.
39
GNL
2023 Oct 3, 7:22am
GNL
2023 Oct 3, 7:22am
HeadSet says
Being a Realtor is not the same as being a real estate agent. A Realtor is a real estate agent but a real estate agent is not necessarily a Realtor.
GNL says
(you do not have to be a Realtor to sell a home. You only have to be a real estate agent working for a brokerage.
In Virginia, and likely most other places, you must be a licensed real estate agent working for a broker to market someone else's home and collect a commission. To become a real estate agent you must pass a written test and background check. Over time, an agent also must also do some continuing education. To become a broker that can supervise these agents, one must have 3 years of full-time experience plus complete further education and testing.
Being a Realtor is not the same as being a real estate agent. A Realtor is a real estate agent but a real estate agent is not necessarily a Realtor.
40
HeadSet
2023 Oct 3, 7:33am
HeadSet
2023 Oct 3, 7:33am
ad says
Have you sold a house that way?
Its easy to sell on Zillow and Trulia as well as Craigslist if you want to sell by owner.
.
Have you sold a house that way?
41
HeadSet
2023 Oct 3, 7:36am
HeadSet
2023 Oct 3, 7:36am
Onvacation says
?? Around here, and other places I have lived, a realtor likes nothing more than to have a buyer show up without an agent. The selling agent is more than happy enough to fill out the contract and not have to split the commission with a buyer's agent.
When I was in real estate in the mid '90s, a lot of selling agents wouldn't even look at your offer if it wasn't presented by a Realtor.
?? Around here, and other places I have lived, a realtor likes nothing more than to have a buyer show up without an agent. The selling agent is more than happy enough to fill out the contract and not have to split the commission with a buyer's agent.
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Will Google develop an open RE listing website? The MLS seems to be a cheesy attempt at cornering the market on RE for sale. Purposefully restricting access to the listings may have played in the past, but the MLS seems like an obvious and easy dinosaur to target.
Looking up RE on a public database, and using a lawyer to handle the contracts seems to be a good way to go. Hire a local RE consultant if necessary, but the customary 6% skim hopefully will be a thing of the past soon.