patrick.net

Also, don't forget, money doesn't bring happiness.

I don't see what the problem is if people wish to work as an intern for free. I mean that's their choice should be their right to do so.

but ya know government... They're always looking for people to remain unemployed so they can vote for more government control.

Well, employment is like a transaction. In most cases, supply and demand will result in the employer paying the employees. However, some employers are so popular that people pay to work.

This is why setting minimum wage to even $0.00 is overly restrictive. Negative wages should be allowed.

If people want mirage, let them chase mirage.

Rin says

Also, don't forget, money doesn't bring happiness.

It can buy pleasure, no?

Peter P says

Rin says

Also, don't forget, money doesn't bring happiness.

It can buy pleasure, no?

I'm being sarcastic, of course money brings happiness.

It brings freedom from working for a living, freedom from time wasted on a relationship for the sake of a boink, freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab, freedom to travel anywhere for a workshop, seminar, vacation, or legal boink (as in Australia).

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Then I would just pay whatever I thought the meal was worth!
Otherwise it would be like going to a hospital in the USA.

Work for free, fuck for money. It is what the Founding Fathers would have wanted.

Other countries have nepotism where the rich hire their offspring to fill important positions effectively shutting out the other competitors who are less well off. Internships serve similar functions here since essentially one has to have rich parents to subsidize the "employee's" existence while they are obtaining experience "working" for free. Once they have the experience, they obviously have a resume edge vs others who did not obtain it.

My wife was an unpaid intern for nearly a year. It was a requirement of getting her CDA certification. Why did it need to be unpaid? Well, I guess it was supply and demand. Lots of dieticians need to do internships to get certified, but there are only so many internships to go around. So it's like an unholy alliance between education, the certification board, and private industry to provide eager young people who will replace paid workers for free.
Is it right? Well most of her student loans came from that period, having to take them out to do silly things like eating and paying rent. So there's a definite cost.
In comparison, most apprenticeships in the trades are paid and paid decently, with escalating wages as skill and time is invested by the apprentice.
So I think the unpaid intern position is entirely a manufactured fiction of greedy capitalists who want help but don't want to pay for it.

How many different toll fees do we want to put on our young people? The ones who want to work and be productive citizens that is? We give hood rats money to sit around and be "disabled" when they aren't "strongarm robbing" convenience stores and selling drugs. But we lay burden upon burden for those few who want to do things right.
Is that right?

Quigley says

So I think the unpaid intern position is entirely a manufactured fiction of greedy capitalists who want help but don't want to pay for it.

There are also sinecure types in these jobs. For instance, a gal from Vassar College whose dad is an investment banker. She works at XYZ foundation doing some research on registered charities for free. Then later, applies for management consulting firm where one of her dad's alumni is a hiring manager. Well ... she gets a full time job there, because it's payback for when one of her dad's clients was brokered through this firm. In the end, she attends meetings but doesn't really do anything.

Don't forget, kids: Richy Rich is just as smart as Joe Average, but more driven and more of an asshole.

Never assume that wealthy people are intelligent, or think before they speak. They are as ignorant as the rest of us.

Quigley says

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Then I would just pay whatever I thought the meal was worth!

Otherwise it would be like going to a hospital in the USA.

I misspoke. My wife's menu did not have prices. Mine did. Even more scary.

It's all Obama's fault!!!

Peter P says

Rin says

Also, don't forget, money doesn't bring happiness.

It can buy pleasure, no?

$250 worth of pleasure from that hot cop with handcuffs.
Money brings happiness if you know where to spend it.

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Be careful. A friend of mine and his wife went to dinner with another couple. They ordered a couple of bottles of wine from the wine menu that did not have prices. They left $3,000 poorer.

Luckily, we don't drink.

Strategist says

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Be careful. A friend of mine and his wife went to dinner with another couple. They ordered a couple of bottles of wine from the wine menu that did not have prices. They left $3,000 poorer.

They should have just returned the wine...

New Renter says

Strategist says

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Be careful. A friend of mine and his wife went to dinner with another couple. They ordered a couple of bottles of wine from the wine menu that did not have prices. They left $3,000 poorer.

They should have just returned the wine...

...in the form of puke?

Peter P says

New Renter says

Strategist says

Peter P says

Rin says

freedom to enjoy the world's finest cuisine w/o checking the tab

We went to a restaurant in Paris. My menu did not even have prices. It was a scary experience.

Be careful. A friend of mine and his wife went to dinner with another couple. They ordered a couple of bottles of wine from the wine menu that did not have prices. They left $3,000 poorer.

They should have just returned the wine...

...in the form of puke?

Or piss

Either works.

Yes people should be able to work for free if they want to. I was once an unpaid intern for 1 year and I ended up getting a job there right after and was grateful for the chance to work for free and LEARN.

drudometkin says

Yes people should be able to work for free if they want to. I was once an unpaid intern for 1 year and I ended up getting a job there right after and was grateful for the chance to work for free and LEARN.

Nobody WANTS to work for free. That's a bit ridiculous. People are FORCED to work for free because they hope that it will lead to a good paying job at some point in the future. It's sad that it's come to this..

Companies used to have apprenticeship programs and were happy to train someone.

Rin says

Quigley says

So I think the unpaid intern position is entirely a manufactured fiction of greedy capitalists who want help but don't want to pay for it.

There are also sinecure types in these jobs. For instance, a gal from Vassar College whose dad is an investment banker. She works at XYZ foundation doing some research on registered charities for free. Then later, applies for management consulting firm where one of her dad's alumni is a hiring manager. Well ... she gets a full time job there, because it's payback for when one of her dad's clients was brokered through this firm. In the end, she attends meetings but doesn't really do anything.

I have a student who's parents are both CEOs. He told me his sister went to art school and at age 22, she magically has a 6 figure job at pixar. His sister majored in English and at age 24, she's making six figures working at a Pharma job. Both of them had zero experience and no internships at all. He said they just sat around the house once they graduated.

In the end, it's about who you know and/or are related to.

Quigley says

In the end, it's about who you know and/or are related to.

The issue is that the pie of well paying white collar jobs is shrinking and thus, it's much more difficult for an upstart to let's say break into fashion/advertising management than someone whose family had already paved his way towards that executive track.

In the future, I suspect that we'll have a basic two tier society, the well connected (legacy) white collar types (including the govt jobs), the industrious blue collar tradesmen, and finally, the welfare state which will account for 50+% of the population. All other work with be done in Asia or by expert systems/robots.

Rin says

In the future, I suspect that we'll have a basic two tier society, the well connected (legacy) white collar types (including the govt jobs), the industrious blue collar tradesmen, and finally, the welfare state which will account for 50+% of the population. All other work with be done in Asia or by expert systems/robots.

Then there is the independent/creative type. I met a fine millennial who is doing pretty well in algorithmic trading.

Peter P says

Then there is the independent/creative type. I met a fine millennial who is doing pretty well in algorithmic trading.

But I think we know that prop trading is that last great opportunity for a self-starter to make it, w/o connections.

Most creative ppl will become ghost writers for established screenplay artists and basically, earn peanuts for their efforts.