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Looks like the GOP hasn't learned much...


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2014 May 1, 12:55am   19,958 views  42 comments

by edvard2   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

So yesterday basically looked like a total repeat of what the GOP seems to do over and over again: Vote against legislation that in turn are things that the very demographic they need in order to win are all for. This time its the minimum wage.

In one way I wasn't surprised. The GOP's seemingly blind and inexhaustible appetite to be against most any sort of legislation that serves to benefit the working, middle class , and young fits right in to this latest debate. On the other I couldn't help but wonder if anyone in their party had stopped and thought about what their vote meant for at least 5 seconds.

Think about it: The GOP has even said that a large percentage of those who work in minimum wage jobs are younger, in high school or college or whatnot. I'm not sure that's exactly true, albeit there are many from that age bracket who certainly do. But even if it were, that segment of the population is a very large piece of the demographic the party has failed to attract- in part due to their prior decisions which are equally distasteful to that age group. So in voting against this law they simply helped the Democrats even more by showing younger folks that yup- come 2016 theirs is once again not the party to vote for.

In the end its sort of sad. You would think that after 2 Presidential elections where they lost- the last one with the GOP even saying that they needed to reach out beyond the base- that the message would be loud and clear. Yet all has been forgotten and its back to business as usual with the GOP on the road to their 3rd defeat.

#politics

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3   zzyzzx   2014 May 1, 1:15am  

I also want Democrats to explain why we even need a federal minimum wage when something like 46 states already have them. I don't understand this fascination that they have with redundant laws. Shouldn't this be set at the state level, since things like the cost of living varies quite a bit from state to state?

4   edvard2   2014 May 1, 1:15am  

zzyzzx says

Something like 60% of these minimum wage jobs that would be lost due to minimum wage increase are jobs held by women. Do the Democrats hate women now too?

That's a load of BS. Basically, that's all the GOP knows what to do: come up with some sort of make-believe outcome of whatever legislation they happen to be against: Its always the exact same thing:

" If you vote for "XXX"- why- it'll be a JOB-KILLER!" yes. We've heard that over and over and over again. And yet whenever such laws get passed they prove to never come true.

Let's put it this way: If raising wages were reasons to lay people off then nobody would ever get a raise. How realistic is that?

5   edvard2   2014 May 1, 1:17am  

zzyzzx says

I also want Democrats to explain why we even need a federal minimum wage when something like 46 states already have them. I don't understand this fascination that they have with redundant laws. Shouldn't this be set at the state level, since things like the cost of living varies quite a bit from state to state?

The proposed legislation is to raise that wage nationally. And insomuch, its not like we're talking about a huge raise anyway. Like $10 an hour. That amount in itself is still laughably small. But nevertheless, what matters here is that the GOP is now on the record for voting against minimum wage hikes and that is going to really resonate with voters. They can make up all the crap they want about how they truly believe that raising the minimum wage will lose jobs till' the cows come home. Their decision will cost them votes big time regardless.

6   zzyzzx   2014 May 1, 1:24am  

edvard2 says

ut nevertheless, what matters here is that the GOP is now on the record for voting against minimum wage hikes and that is going to really resonate with voters.

Simple economics should dictate that if you are going to do such a thing, do it when unemployment isn't already very high.

7   edvard2   2014 May 1, 1:30am  

zzyzzx says

Simple economics should dictate that if you are going to do such a thing, do it when unemployment isn't already very high.

Trust me- it wouldn't matter if unemployment were 20% or 0%: The GOP has traditionally been against minimum wage hikes. The irony is that this shows rather clearly in states that are heavily Republican: Many of those states have some of the lowest wages in the country. Besides- a huge percentage of the companies whom pay these low wages are absolutely rolling in money, as in they're making untold billions and billions of dollars, not only from outright enormous profits from the cheap crap they sell, but from basically short-changing their employees every step of the way. This issues as a whole is less about what's good for business and what IS good business. A good business is not about paying your workforce a pittance. Understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with companies making money and lots of it. But when it comes from not paying sufficient wages then that's an issue.

But as I said before, its on the record: The GOP voted against something that is very much in the interest of the voters who they need to get and now won't... again.

Also- to my favorite person who marks all my posts negative, I just mark them positive. Hence negating your hard work. ha ha ha!

8   HEY YOU   2014 May 1, 5:44am  

GOP voters enjoy working for less.

9   edvard2   2014 May 1, 5:44am  

PCGyver says

Actually, if you think about it, a rise in minimum wage would put more money into many hands that wouldn't save the money but spend it. Which would mean more things are bought. Which would drive the corporations to invest their money into new factors of production. This in turn would create more jobs.

And furthermore, the minimum and middle income wages in the 50's was actually higher. That and so too were taxes. Yet at that point the average US citizen had the most powerful levels of buying power than at any other time in US history.

That's what the GOP doesn't want you to know...

10   edvard2   2014 May 1, 7:43am  

As someone who worked in retail for years I can tell you that labor is most definitely not the biggest cost. On top of that, some retailers pay their employees so little that in turn those employees have to go on food stamps, public assistance programs and so on. The latest data shows this costs the US over 6 Billion dollars a year.

11   Vicente   2014 May 2, 2:50pm  

Call it Crazy says

Hey, here's a novel idea.... How about the employee, instead of being GIVEN a higher min wage, how about he EARNS an increase by being MORE valuable to his employer, working harder or helping the employer to be more profitable....

Yeah great idea. So you make more money for your bosses and it "trickles down" to you. I think we ran that experiment, how'd it work out?

Hypothesis founders on the rocks and is smashed to bits. In aggregate all we get for it, is the bar is raised and the pay remains the same.

I have a better idea for making millions. I'll mine commons & public lands for my personal gain. Then when someone tries to extract a tax or fee for said usage, I raise a militia and make them back the hell off. Winning!

12   tatupu70   2014 May 2, 10:47pm  

Call it Crazy says

It doesn't matter where the costs come from... If internal company costs rise (higher wages), those costs have to be paid by

PCGyver says

The customer of course!

And that's not really true either. Don't forget about this graph:

God forbid some of those billions go to the actual workers...

13   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:02am  

Call it Crazy says

It's not my problem you're working for the wrong employer....

We're talking about the economy in general--not one individual.

14   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:03am  

Call it Crazy says

Oh, I see, retail is the ONLY type of business in this country...

Got it.....

Well it pretty much proves your point to be wrong (again).

15   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:13am  

Call it Crazy says

Perfect example of how I can see you never ran a company and have no idea of the cost of wages to the company....

lol--every business is different. Labor cost as a percentage of total cost varies significantly across industries and even within industries.

Your comment is meaningless. Running a business gives you little to no special insight into labor costs at another business.

16   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:18am  

Call it Crazy says

Ever hear of the 80/20 rule in business?? Probably 80% of working stiffs are getting taken advantage of by their bosses, most of them don't "contribute" to the growth of the business anyway... They are dead weight or the "cost" of doing business...

There are a small percentage of employees who actually "push the rock" up the hill in a company and are responsible for the majority of revenues.... The 20%..

Unfortunately, and based on your posts and Vicente's posts, I can see you're both part of the 80% of slugs in the business...

You think the 20% get more money because the company makes more? You're very naïve...

17   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:20am  

Call it Crazy says

Right, coming from someone, based on their past posts, who has NO idea how a business is run....

Examples? lol-who am I kidding. We both know you won't post any...

18   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 12:22am  

Call it Crazy says

Any idea on how sales people are compensated????

Depends. Some on commission, some on salary. But, as you should know--making sales is not the same as making profits.

19   edvard2   2014 May 3, 12:56am  

I guess in the end what I find amazing is that the GOP totally fell for the Democrats again. To be sure, the minimum wage needs to be raised. So its a legitimate concern and a good issue that the Democrats decided to bring up. But I'm also sure it was brought up at this time on purpose because the Democrats figured the GOP would vote against it which would in turn remind the demographics they need to win over exactly why they didn't vote for the GOP the last time. And so here we are again: The GOP took it hook, line and sinker. They are a bunch of suckers and its amazing how dense they are when it comes to their voting habits.

20   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 1:00am  

Call it Crazy says

I design my compensation to revolve around profits, If I generate higher profits for my employer, I receive higher compensation...

So, his comments above only pertain to the slugs in the organization... In other words, I generate profits for the company(and more money for me) so slugs like you and him can sit around all day and post on Patnet and complain why the money ISN'T trickling down to you

I highly doubt you design your own compensation, but it's not relevant. Like I said earlier, we're talking about the overall economy. The "slugs" as you call them are 80% of the economy, right? And the money doesn't trickle down to them, right? So, that's the problem.

21   Shaman   2014 May 3, 1:20am  

So corporations now occupy the top 120 slots of the largest political donors. Is it any wonder they're getting the laws passed that benefit them?
There are some small businesses with small profit margins that are adversely affected by each minimum wage increase. However, the corporations are not affected.
Here's an example of how a business values an employee and shares revenue by boosting wages. When I was 16, I got my first real job working at McDonalds. It was pretty awful back then, but I worked hard and kept at it after school and in weekends and during the summer Full time. After six months, I got my first raise: from $4.75 to $4.82.
By then, since the turnover was so high, I was one of only a few "senior" workers and knew every station and job. I could also do them well and efficiently. This was worth an additional $0.07 to my employer. After a year without another raise, I told my manager I was quitting. He offered to raise my wage to a whole $5.00 if I stayed. I reminded him that minimum wage was recently raised to $5.00 and I should have been getting that already. Then I quit.

Employers only give raises they have to give. Whether that's due to the threat of losing an employee they find irreplaceable or federal or state wage laws, it's the reason.

Unions are the other way to get a fair wage, but after three decades of corporate lobbying, union membership in non-governmental businesses is like 7%. This isn't because people don't find unions helpful. It's because local governments have made unions all but illegal, while telling citizens they are unpatriotic and communist as well. Meanwhile they also shipped most union jobs away to Asia and Mexico, to reap greater corporate profits by destroying their consumer base.
Once again, corporations gravitated toward paying their employees less, this time by switching nations so they could take advantage of Chinese workers.
Trusting corporations to fairly compensate workers is a proven failure. The only thing the shareholders are interested in is higher profits and corporate officers only want higher CEO and board compensation.

22   zzyzzx   2014 May 3, 1:42am  

Vicente says

Yeah great idea. So you make more money for your bosses and it "trickles down" to you. I think we ran that experiment, how'd it work out?

It did trickle down, to India, China, Mexico, etc.

23   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 1:56am  

Call it Crazy says

No, that's THEIR problem.... If they decided to be a part of the 20%, instead of the 80% slug group, they would see a change of what trickles down to them...

You've must have grown up at Lake Wobegon. Everyone is in the top 20%!

24   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 2:03am  

Call it Crazy says

It's HIGHLY relevant to your constant whining about income inequality... Your trying to make an argument why corporate profits are so high, but you're not getting your slice.... Poor baby... Step up and be an asset, not a liability, to the company....

See--you always try to make it personal. Please show me where I said anything about not getting my slice. As I've told you many, many times--I'm doing quite well, thank you.

If you'd stop trolling, you might understand that the problem with income inequality is that it kills the overall economy. It's not a fairness issue, it's pragmatic.

Call it Crazy says

And yes, I have ALWAYS designed my own compensation plan since I've been in sales...

Uh huh. I'm sure you have. Where are you working?

25   tatupu70   2014 May 3, 2:13am  

Call it Crazy says

So instead of coming here and whining about it all the time, go change it...

I keep trying, but I only get one vote and idiots like you keep voting for the wrong people.

Call it Crazy says

Like I said, you first have to understand how a business runs before you can grasp this. Go become a 20%er and maybe you'll understand...

Like I said--I'm doing quite well and don't feel the need to brag about it on anonymous internet sites. So, you were saying--where do you work? What do you sell?

26   Shaman   2014 May 3, 3:20am  

Call it Crazy says

tatupu70 says

The "slugs" as you call them are 80% of the economy, right? And the money doesn't trickle down to them, right? So, that's the problem.

No, that's THEIR problem.... If they decided to be a part of the 20%, instead of the 80% slug group, they would see a change of what trickles down to them...

So what's your "final solution" for the 80% who can't make the top 20%? Death camps? Slavery? Lifelong welfare? Choose one. If you elect to reject the grand majority of humanity, they still exist and must be dealt with.
Keep in mind that rejecting 80% of the people limits your economy severely. I wonder if you understand that widgets and apps have to have buyers or it's meaningless to produce them?

27   Tenpoundbass   2014 May 3, 4:49am  

Higher minimum wage would be doable, if Oil and Gas wasn't manipulated to be about 50 to 60% more than they should be. Oil should still be trading at $35 to $75 a barrel. $75 only when the middle East is rattling their swords, so they use it as an excuse to double the price.
Gas should be under $2.00 a gallon, and at $1.25 to $1.50.

I don't give a fuck what gas costs in Europe or the rest of the world, as their economy, culture, and economy isn't set up, nor dependent on the independence that Oil and Gas low price security depends.

Companies just want to make profits. If gas and Oil is going to only inflate their whole supply chain, from raw materials to production all the way down to shipping and logistics. Then the consumer will pay the price. We're paying for THAT! They had to take some from employees for prices to be what they are now. This was all done in the sham of promoting green energy, which the greedy bastards have made damn sure that there's even a big premium for that.

Liberals really need to get their heads out of their asses, that start thinking like conscious adults, and start thinking realistically. They want nothing but REAL money, and want as much of it as they can get for them selves. But for everyone else, while they think about what people can pay, or what people will receive, they are really thinking about a whole other currency that doesn't even exist, it's more suited in a realm of fantasy economics.

28   Tenpoundbass   2014 May 3, 4:53am  

Free market my Ass.

Free market operates on supply and demand, free market, has Federal regulators to go over the books to make damn sure no body is taking everyone else for a ride. Free markets prohibit monopolies.

Why do I hate Liberal Keynesian corruption, should be the question you should be asking me. And asking your self, how do you sleep at night supporting it?

29   Automan Empire   2014 May 3, 5:42am  

Call it Crazy says

What happens to the costs to the employer when he pays the higher wages??? Those
costs get added to what he is selling, thus raising the product prices, which
means less people can afford it on their new higher min wage

The premise that $1 increase in wage equals $1 increase in the price of produced goods is so outside reality that it calls into question the business knowlege of anyone who makes this claim.

30   HydroCabron   2014 May 3, 6:02am  

Call it Crazy says

What happens to the costs to the employer when he pays the higher wages??? Those costs get added to what he is selling, thus raising the product prices, which means less people can afford it on their new higher min wage...

This logic also works when considering going from $0 per hour to $1.00 per hour for paying workers.

The extra $1 per worker-hour is passed on to the consumer, some of whom are then unable to afford the product, so there is no net benefit.

By your logic, no worker should ever be paid.

I believe there are good arguments against minimum-wage laws, but yours is not among them.

31   HydroCabron   2014 May 3, 1:03pm  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Paying people to work is unconstitutional.

America was founded on ownership, such as the right to own people who work for nothing.

And let's not get all crazy about the COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL 13th and 14th Amendments.

I have said it repeatedly: The Constitution is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

32   Vicente   2014 May 4, 1:23pm  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

And let's not get all crazy about the COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL 13th and 14th Amendments.

Man you are using too many big words there and numbers, I just can't follow it.

33   clambo   2014 May 5, 2:02am  

The problem is not the minimum wage, the problem is jobs.

Also, the laws of supply and demand apply to labor. If the tens of millions of illegal alien workers could not compete for wages, wages would naturally rise on their own.

So because the Democrats want to gain new voters, they support illegal alien workers thereby screwing American labor.

Economic growth and wealth are derived from 1. production 2. innovation
So, you see job growth and wage growth in places that have new production, examples are Texas and N. Dakota oil and gas. They have low unemployment and rising wages. Note: illegal worker labor did not create this situation.

An innovation example could be Silicon Valley or N. California. Again, illegal alien labor did NOT create this innovation or job creation.

92.6 million people are out of the workforce. They are not going to be helped one bit by the govt. mandating a high minimum wage, it's the opposite.

34   Vicente   2014 May 5, 7:20am  

clambo says

If the tens of millions of illegal alien workers could not compete for wages, wages would naturally rise on their own.

So because the Democrats want to gain new voters, they support illegal alien workers thereby screwing American labor.

RIIIIIGHT it's the Democrats like Meg Whitman who want illegals in their employ. Get back to us, when GOP backs stern measures to raid businesses and penalize employers who hire illegals.

35   Automan Empire   2014 May 5, 8:08am  

clambo says

So because the Democrats want to gain new voters, they support illegal alien
workers thereby screwing American labor.

Illegal aliens do NOT vote. Neither do a majority of aid recipients. The reward is too distant for the effort and risk involved.

My local ghetto-ass polling places should be CRAWLING with illegals and others collectively referred to off-the-cuff as "typical Obama voters," according to conservatives, but no. It's always mostly seniors voting a straight conservative plank, poll workers fighting to keep their eyelids open, and way more polling stations than voters at any given moment.

36   bob2356   2014 May 6, 2:20am  

Automan Empire says

My local ghetto-ass polling places should be CRAWLING with illegals and others collectively referred to off-the-cuff as "typical Obama voters," according to conservatives, but no. It's always mostly seniors voting a straight conservative plank, poll workers fighting to keep their eyelids open, and way more polling stations than voters at any given moment

Never confuse ideologues with actual facts or logic.

37   bob2356   2014 May 6, 2:32am  

Vicente says

Get back to us, when GOP backs stern measures to raid businesses and penalize employers who hire illegals.

There were 6 business prosecuted for having illegal aliens on the payroll during the Bush presidency. That's almost 1 a year, pretty stern measures I would say. Certainly all the other employers in the USA were quaking in their boots.

The GOP is so hypocritical about illegals its' just hard to believe. More border patrols (note 80% of the border is solid red states, a little (ok a lot) money for the home boys. You think), more police, more, more. More of everything except the one thing that would work. Putting people who hire illegals in jail. No excuses, no exceptions. Do it and there would be 20 million people walking south inside 6 months. But corporate profits would take a huge hit. Never going to happen.

38   FortWayne   2014 May 6, 3:06am  

Automan Empire says

My local ghetto-ass polling places should be CRAWLING with illegals and others collectively referred to off-the-cuff as "typical Obama voters," according to conservatives, but no. It's always mostly seniors voting a straight conservative plank, poll workers fighting to keep their eyelids open, and way more polling stations than voters at any given moment.

It's very different in our neighborhood. Out here majority are typical Obama voters, and almost no seniors. You can spot a white voter from a mile away since they'll stand out from the crowd.

39   tatupu70   2014 May 6, 3:09am  

zzyzzx says

Seems to me it's the liberals that are against the free market with their support of minimum wage increases.

Yep--some also want clean air and clean water.

Communist bastards.

40   Vicente   2014 May 6, 3:35am  

I have a great idea for the GOP.

We haven't had a new Constitutional Amendment in ages.

If you aren't a registered Republican, your vote is reduced to a 3/5th vote.

We can call this the "Southern Compromise".

41   Automan Empire   2014 May 6, 5:40am  

FortWayne says

You can spot a white voter from a mile away since they'll stand out from the
crowd.

...Or you could step into my aforementioned polling place. A handful of white elders voting. The hoi polloi of the neighborhood- the so-called typical Obama voters, are 0% represented inside the polling places on election day.

I remember trying to gather signatures and register voters for Prop 215 to legalize cannabis. Lots of people were ready to sign, but would NOT register to vote so their signature would be worse than useless on the ballot petition. The main reasons given for not wanting to register to vote?
I don't want to be on some government list. I don't want to have to serve jury duty.

42   Vicente   2014 May 6, 2:24pm  

Automan Empire says

I don't want to be on some government list. I don't want to have to serve jury duty.

Oh. I hadn't really thought of that. Well I guess that's the American Way

What's in it for me?

My family taught me to respect Civics 101. Jury duty is a RESPONSIBILITY you should take seriously. There's no compulsory military/civil service here like other countries. All that they ask is you serve for a week or two once in a great while in the justice system. I cannot comprehend the people who spend so much energy thinking of ways to dodge it. 4-5 days every decade or two, BFD! It's the exact same mentality as tax-dodging fatcats.

I got mine, fuck you!

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