patrick.net

Bump, since we're all talking about Krugman today.

He is not meant to be understood, that is how he attempts to stay relevant within the elitist circles.

nw888 says

By that measure, isn't the relationship of the USA to its states, the same as the Eurozone to its countries?

Not at all. Your attempted analogy is completely wrong. First you need to understand the differences between US and EC:

1. the EC does not have a European income tax, all taxes are country-based

2. the EC does not have a European army, all defense and defense spending is country-based

3. the EC does not have a European Police with jurisdiction in the member nations

4. the EC does not have a central budget and taxing authority.

There are many other very significant differences. Please engage the brain and try to understand how EC works.

When it comes to Krugman's analogy of euro == gold standard, what is it you do not understand?

Let me see if I can spell it out for you:

Krugman is saying that the Euro is similar to being on a gold standard BECAUSE the individual countries have individual control of taxes and budgets, but they do NOT have individual control of their currency. They cannot print their own money to be in harmony with their taxes and budgets, hence they aree constrained as if on a gold standard.

This really should not be so hard to understand. What is the problem?

You are not the only one, but he makes a great salary for his voodoo talks. Would be nice if we could cut his position and add some taxpayer money back into the pool for more productive uses ;)

mell says

he makes a great salary for his voodoo talks.

Did you even watch it? Better not. He makes too much sense.

You have better things to do with your Sunday, than wrestle with all that cognitive dissonance.

justme says

Please engage the brain and try to understand how EC works.

justme says

Let me see if I can spell it out for you:

I don't know why you are being rude.

I understand the differences you outlined, but they have no bearing on the discussion at hand.

nw888 says

I don't know why you are being rude.

I guess it comes from reading so many people being rude to Paul Krugman without even having read and understood what the man said. Perhaps you are not one of them(?).

nw888 says

I understand the differences you outlined, but they have no bearing on the discussion at hand.

The differences are essential. Willful ignorance of fact also sometimes leads to rudeness.

So I will ask again: Do you now understand why Paul Krugman is equating the Euro with each country being constrained as if by an individual gold standard?

Krugman is a serial liar. He caters to his audience and gets paid millions for traveling the university circuit lecturing and slapping his name onto textbooks he didn't write. My favorite part of his blog is whenever it snows. I actually live about 3/4 of a mile away from him in Princeton. His house is huge (especially for not having any kids). But anyway, whenever it snows, he pays some guy to plow it for him and then he goes and snaps a photo of him with his shovel at the end of the driveway and posts it up on his blog saying how exhausted he is shoveling snow.

theoakman says

Krugman is a serial liar. He caters to his audience and gets paid millions for traveling the university circuit lecturing and slapping his name onto textbooks he didn't write.

Yep.

If you have jumped through the right hoops, are glib and come across as reliably plausible when speaking to the media, no matter the facts, they have a job for you. Just be corruptible.

nw888 says

But states can't borrow the money either can they? I still don't understand,
sorry.

States , towns, cities can all borrow as much as lenders will give them. They just can't print their own currency and buy their own bonds.

theoakman says

Krugman is a serial liar. He caters to his audience and gets paid millions for traveling the university circuit lecturing and slapping his name onto textbooks he didn't write. My favorite part of his blog is whenever it snows. I actually live about 3/4 of a mile away from him in Princeton. His house is huge (especially for not having any kids). But anyway, whenever it snows, he pays some guy to plow it for him and then he goes and snaps a photo of him with his shovel at the end of the driveway and posts it up on his blog saying how exhausted he is shoveling snow.

If this silly slander is true, you should post links to back it up. Otherwise, you should stfu.

nw888 says

European countries under the EMU issue their own bonds, so I still don't see how they differ from states that issue bonds.

I'm very close to becoming what you call "rude" again: Did you read this line?

nw888 says

A member nation is supposed to keep deficits to 3% of GDP and debt to 60% of GDP.

This important line was even quoted by yourself, 5 lines above where you say "I still don't see how they (=Greece, my emphasis) differ from states that issue bonds."

Well, that was yet another important difference, was it not? And only one difference is needed to show that Greece in the Eurozone is not financially equivalent to the states under the US.

PS: Do you now see why an otherwise reasonably reasonable person might get annoyed with you and start berating you?

I don't see the difference in a country that is part of the EMU issuing bonds and a state that is part of the USA issuing bonds. How is there a difference between the two?

As for the issue of countries in the EMU having to stay within certain guidelines, most of them haven't, so obviously that is a mute point.

Whether guidelines are different or not, what is occuring in reality is the same in my opinion. So I still do not see how the EMU is effectively on a gold standard.

I'm not playing dumb, I just don't see what you're seeing. France, Spain, Italy, Portugal and a few more are outside those guidelines. Why haven't they been expelled from the Eurozone?

Greece is going through austerity, not expulsion from the Eurozone.

This discussion isn't whether there are differences, it's whether Europe is effectively on a gold standard.

nw888 says

As for the issue of countries in the EMU having to stay within certain guidelines, most of them haven't, so obviously that is a mute point.

Alright, you have now had all the lenience you deserve. You are now officially a Dishonest Disingenous Dumbass (TM).

Look: When Greece issued and sold bond debt, they were originally within their debt/GDP limit. Then GDP dropped like a rock because the world-wide housing bubble went bust, and therefore debt/GDP suddenly became larger than the limit, but AFTER THE FACT. So NOW they cannot issue new bonds without special permission by the EC. This is not a moot point!

What is the next falsehood you will come up with? At this point there is little reason to believe you are anything but a troll going around in circles from one false argument to the next.

rooemoore says

theoakman says

Krugman is a serial liar. He caters to his audience and gets paid millions for traveling the university circuit lecturing and slapping his name onto textbooks he didn't write. My favorite part of his blog is whenever it snows. I actually live about 3/4 of a mile away from him in Princeton. His house is huge (especially for not having any kids). But anyway, whenever it snows, he pays some guy to plow it for him and then he goes and snaps a photo of him with his shovel at the end of the driveway and posts it up on his blog saying how exhausted he is shoveling snow.

If this silly slander is true, you should post links to back it up. Otherwise, you should stfu.

lol, I'll go down to his driveway and videotape him next snow storm just for you.

Somebody else said it, and it was enough for him to believe it.

It's kind of like a form of 'do on to others.' If he's gullible enough to believe any random rumor (especially if it's negative and about somebody he dislikes), he assumes others are equally gullible.

Is it possible he hired someone, and helped them ? OR that he hired someone, and it snowed more and he shoveled then ? No, you prefer to make him out to be a shmuck over something that's highly unlikely.

Whenever I think of Paul Krugman I remember his "opinion" pieces are not subject to even the most basic fact checking. For example, he can't count the number of rail tunnels under the Hudson River, between his newspaper in New York and his university in New Jersey: there are at least three, but he writes there is "just one" and we need to borrow money to build more. Nobody at The Times corrects his obviously incorrect count, even though many Times employees probably commute through those tunnels. (BTW, there are also two vehicular tunnels, and a two-level bridge for additional vehicular traffic.) Everything he writes is his sacred "opinion", like a religious belief, no matter how obviously incorrect.

Credit where it's due though, Professor Krugman did write a fascinating detailed article explaining how the Federal Reserve co-opted economists into failing to see the bubble.

marcus says

Somebody else said it, and it was enough for him to believe it.

It's kind of like a form of 'do on to others.' If he's gullible enough to believe any random rumor (especially if it's negative and about somebody he dislikes), he assumes others are equally gullible.

Is it possible he hired someone, and helped them ? OR that he hired someone, and it snowed more and he shoveled then ? No, you prefer to make him out to be a shmuck over something that's highly unlikely.

Maybe you people aren't making the connection. This isn't rumor. I live right by the man and saw the truck plowing his driveway. Two hours later, a photo of his wife and a post insinuating he was exhausted made it up on his blog. Do you honestly think I care whether your hero shovels snow or not?

I just find it funny that he finds the need to convince the world he does.

Damn oakman, how priceless it would be for you to post that video!!

And all the butt hurt krugmanites would look even more foolish then they already do. "Slander" LOL

I'm in Princeton right now, fat chance any of these limp wristers are out there shoveling out their own driveways. Property here is exorbitantly expensive like it is in the SFBA,,,,so its a bunch of "good neighborhood, good school " racists

Nothing keeps the blacks away quite like expensive housing!

theoakman says

I just find it funny that he finds the need to convince the world he does.

I lived more than half my life around snow. Just because a truck came and plowed his driveway doesn't mean he didn't do quite a bit of additional shoveling himself, even if there wasn't more snow falling after the plow came.

I'm not trying to defend him. IT's possibly you're right, but it's a really bizarre claim to make. A stretch really. It's true he doesn't look like a very athletic guy. So even just a minor cleaning up of what the plow did (with a shovel), maybe doing walk ways that the plow didn't get, would be a big job for a 60 year old, non-athletic, relatively out of shape guy.

theoakman says

I just find it funny that he finds the need to convince the world he does.

I find it desperate that you find the need to convince the world that PK does not shovel snow (he does) and therefore he must be wrong about EVERYTHING.

Seriously, is this the best you've got? Some right-wing kooks are beyond pathetic.

justme says

theoakman says

I just find it funny that he finds the need to convince the world he does.

I find it desperate that you find the need to convince the world that PK does not shovel snow (he does) and therefore he must be wrong about EVERYTHING.

Seriously, is this the best you've got? Some right-wing kooks are beyond pathetic.

lol. I posted an anecdote. I find it funny that you somehow equate to a random message board posting as trying to convince the world. I love how a random comment about him pretending to shovel snow just turned me into a right wing fanatic. That's the problem with this dialog. Its gone beyond stupid.

humanity says

theoakman says

I just find it funny that he finds the need to convince the world he does.

I lived more than half my life around snow. Just because a truck came and plowed his driveway doesn't mean he didn't do quite a bit of additional shoveling himself, even if there wasn't more snow falling after the plow came.

I'm not trying to defend him. IT's possibly you're right, but it's a really bizarre claim to make. A stretch really. It's true he doesn't look like a very athletic guy. So even just a minor cleaning up of what the plow did (with a shovel), maybe doing walk ways that the plow didn't get, would be a big job for a 60 year old, non-athletic, relatively out of shape guy.

You guys seriously are reading way too in depth to this. Here's his pic and his blog post. It shows his wife standing at the end of the driveway and he basically insinuates how hard it was. I had driven by about two hours prior to this post. Ironically, I was hoping to plow some people's driveways for cash. His neighborhood can be $80 a driveway cuz some of them are insanely long.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/shovel-ready/

The chances of a 60 year old millionaire in Princeton doing any manual labor is about 0%. Anyone who thinks otherwise has obviously never been to Princeton.

theoakman says

It shows his wife standing at the end of the driveway and he basically insinuates how hard it was.

Paul Krugman was not insinuating anything. The ENTIRE blog post consisted of the following:

Title: Shovel-ready
Photo:
Text: But not very stimulating.

So Paul Krugman was posting a joke about "shovel-ready" national stimulus projects. Only the most acute sufferer of Republican Derangement Syndrome would try to twist this joke into some personal failing on Krugman's part.

I'm glad you posted the link, people can see for themselves

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/shovel-ready/

justme says

theoakman says

It shows his wife standing at the end of the driveway and he basically insinuates how hard it was.

Paul Krugman was not insinuating anything. The entire blog post consisted of the following:

Title: Shovel-ready

Photo:

Text: But not very stimulating.

So Paul Krugman was posting a joke about "shovel-ready" national stimulus projects. Only the most acute sufferer of Republican Derangement Syndrome would try to twist this joke into some personal failing on Krugman's part.

I'm glad you posted the link, people can see for themselves

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/shovel-ready/

lol, when you post a pic of someone posing at the end of an empty driveway, justme says

theoakman says

It shows his wife standing at the end of the driveway and he basically insinuates how hard it was.

Paul Krugman was not insinuating anything. The entire blog post consisted of the following:

Title: Shovel-ready

Photo:

Text: But not very stimulating.

So Paul Krugman was posting a joke about "shovel-ready" national stimulus projects. Only the most acute sufferer of Republican Derangement Syndrome would try to twist this joke into some personal failing on Krugman's part.

I'm glad you posted the link, people can see for themselves

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/shovel-ready/

lol, he snapped a pic of his wife standing at the end of a driveway that a truck cleared. And you are turning this into a right wing argument. Like I said...beyond stupid.

theoakman says

Like I said...beyond stupid.

Not really. You're political and or economic theory beliefs and your opinion in general of Krugman, influenced your coming up with this:

theoakman says

My favorite part of his blog is whenever it snows. I actually live about 3/4 of a mile away from him in Princeton. His house is huge (especially for not having any kids). But anyway, whenever it snows, he pays some guy to plow it for him and then he goes and snaps a photo of him with his shovel at the end of the driveway and posts it up on his blog saying how exhausted he is shoveling snow.

They should redistribute Krugman's wealth amongst the middle-class as part of his "mea-culpa" bailout-retribution and give away his house to some serious squatters. Now that would finally be a real stimulus for the economy!

marcus says

theoakman says

Like I said...beyond stupid.

Not really. You're political and or economic theory beliefs and your opinion in general of Krugman, influenced your coming up with this:

theoakman says

My favorite part of his blog is whenever it snows. I actually live about 3/4 of a mile away from him in Princeton. His house is huge (especially for not having any kids). But anyway, whenever it snows, he pays some guy to plow it for him and then he goes and snaps a photo of him with his shovel at the end of the driveway and posts it up on his blog saying how exhausted he is shoveling snow.

Haha, yeah, I made this up...because obviously, some joker pretending he shovels snow discredits everything he's ever said... you guys are pretty funny in that you can turn an anecdote about shoveling snow into a liberal vs. conservative argument. Here's a little tidbit for ya buddy, I've never voted Republican in my life.

theoakman says

Haha, yeah, I made this up...because obviously, some joker pretending he shovels snow discredits everything he's ever said...

Yes in indeed, you did make it up. And now you should be quietly ashamed of yourself. You have demonstrated the ability to generate an astounding amount of lies per post. Just amazing.

Honestly, gang, who really gives a good goddamn whether that bearded little gerbil shoveled his own pussy-ass'd driveway or not? His shit sucks. Did Krugman tell you two years ago to buy in Victor Valley? Adelanto???

So F that guy. Stick with Jody's economic clairvoyance, and it'll be blue skies.

Yea I'm rolling with uncle jody

Screw aunt paul and those sweaters and her cats. Krgman paid that snow removal service with his own gotdam hardearned cash, if he wants to pose in front of it afterwards so to appear capable of carrying the shovel down the driveway, have at it

mell says

They should redistribute Krugman's wealth amongst the middle-class as part of his "mea-culpa" bailout-retribution and give away his house to some serious squatters. Now that would finally be a real stimulus for the economy!

Ooooh, yes! And Al Gore lives in a big house so global warming must be a hoax!

I don't know exactly what is wrong with Krugman other than a lot.

indigenous says

I don't know exactly what is wrong with Krugman other than a lot.

Brilliant insight

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

I don't know exactly what is wrong with Krugman other than a lot.

Brilliant insight

Thank you

indigenous says

I don't know exactly what is wrong with Krugman other than a lot.

How about this? Krugman is beyond economic repairable ?

adarmiento says

indigenous says

I don't know exactly what is wrong with Krugman other than a lot.

How about this? Krugman is beyond economic repairable ?

Or FUBAR

finehoe says

mell says

They should redistribute Krugman's wealth amongst the middle-class as part of his "mea-culpa" bailout-retribution and give away his house to some serious squatters. Now that would finally be a real stimulus for the economy!

Ooooh, yes! And Al Gore lives in a big house so global warming must be a hoax!

Not necessarily, but it would certainly help his cause if he would live in a more modest house and not jet around so much. Same goes for Krugman.