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Friend is a serial cheater, he has wife and kids... should I rat him out?
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2013 Apr 11, 2:38am 22,307 views 83 comments
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No, you don't tell the old lady nuthin! No good can come out of this advice.
Meh, that's your opinion. My attitude on this, (and I suspect Goran's may be similar) is that he's turning the situation around. Ask yourself if your wife was cheating and your wife's friend knew about it, would you want her to tell you?
I once had dinner with a CEO of a company in Japan and a sales exec who was, shall we say, very flirtatious, while on the road. Both were married and had kids. Over dinner (one of those posh private chefs deals at a 5 star hotel) the subject of how far you'd go on the road came up and I stated my belief that I'd only do what I'd feel comfortable that my wife was doing while she was on the road. I could tell by the expressions on their face that neither of them had ever considered it from that perspective, or perhaps didn't want to. Not sure why, but the CEO whispered something to the hostess and the Geisha's waiting for us to finish dinner left shortly after. I suspect I ruined their evening, but I can still look my wife in the eye.
It's a heavy cross to bear, but I knew being a godless Atheist liberal wasn't going to be easy among all these family values religious conservatives running amok... :'P
New Renter
2013 Apr 11, 11:02am
I once had dinner with a CEO of a company in Japan and a sales exec who was, shall we say, very flirtatious, while on the road. Both were married and had kids. Over dinner (one of those posh private chefs deals at a 5 star hotel) the subject of how far you'd go on the road came up and I stated my belief that I'd only do what I'd feel comfortable that my wife was doing while she was on the road. I could tell by the expressions on their face that neither of them had ever considered it from that perspective, or perhaps didn't want to. Not sure why, but the CEO whispered something to the hostess and the Geisha's waiting for us to finish dinner left shortly after. I suspect I ruined their evening, but I can still look my wife in the eye.
How'd the deal with that company work out?
But I still want to try and talk some sense into him.
Goran, just happened to think, you could always use the old reverse phycology trick on him. Next time this topic comes up with him, say, "Whew, I am glad we can talk about stuff like this. Cause you know, while you were away on your last trip, your wife was flirting with me pretty bad. It's great to know you two have an open enough relationship to where you'd be cool with what happened."
Too much? :)
How'd the deal with that company work out?
They had flown me to Tokyo to do a dog an pony show of their product (we were their star customer), so there weren't any business repercussions. (Besides, we were all pretty much plastered by then anyway on some really good Sake) Not sure about the CEO, but the sales guy changed jobs a few moths later to a position where he wouldn't be on the road as much and could stay home with his family.
rooemoore
2013 Apr 11, 11:16am
have you masturbated while married without your wife knowing? rhetorical question. i know the answer.
it's not that different than cheating, he just does it (orgasm with someone other than the wife) with real people instead of a computer. lol.
I masturbate to pictures of my wife and it's hot.
If this guy is a true serial cheater, there's pretty much zero chance he will change his behavior if you talk to him. Do a little web surfing on serial cheaters if you are interested in the psychology. So if your only reason to talk to him is to convince him that he needs to stop, you might as well not waste your time.
As above, my main concern would be health risks to his wife. Plenty of Japanese housewives have wound up HIV positive courtesy their husbands' "golf trips" to Thailand. For those who have posted that telling the wife will likely have adverse effects on the kids, how do you think the kids would be affected by their mom slowly wasting away from AIDS? Or dying from hep C induced liver failure? If you knew your wife was out fucking random guys, would you have unprotected sex with her?
Your friend has placed you in a lose-lose situation. If you talk to him, his behavior won't change and your relationship may take a turn for the worse. If you don't talk to him and things blow up, your wife will be suspicious as to whether you knew what was going on, and that means trouble for you.
I think the suggestion to have a conversation with your wife is a good one. This is the kind of stuff that partners are supposed to share with each other, and the potential fallout affects both of you.
New Renter
2013 Apr 11, 12:35pm
have you masturbated while married without your wife knowing? rhetorical question. i know the answer.
it's not that different than cheating, he just does it (orgasm with someone other than the wife) with real people instead of a computer. lol.
I masturbate to pictures of my wife and it's hot.
She's hot? Prove it!
MsBennet
2013 Apr 11, 3:00pm
You may motivate her to act on the information you have, but that doesn't mean she will be grateful, and none of four of you, will never be the same friends again. Probably more than likely they will continue as a couple, he's showering her with his bounty right now. But they'll cut you guys off from their lives so they don't have to deal with the awkwardness of having to deal with you again.
I agree with everything the Captain said. I wouldn't mention it. And anything you say is not going to stop the guy anyway. I would just change the subject if it's brought up. He probably has some level of guilt about it. He was hoping you'd say yes, you cheated, so he could feel better about himself.
Goran_K
2013 Apr 11, 3:09pm
Actually I do agree he may have been looking for some sort of validation from me, looking for me to recount some wild "cheat" stories I may have. It was sort of an awkward end to the conversation, and I know he could tell I was a little bothered. Part of me thinks he won't bring it up again, he's not a dumb guy, he's sharp, and perceptive. You need to be when you're in his position.
Not only should you rat him out but you should make up a bunch of horrible lies to add to the narrative and then have an affair with his wife.
elliemae
2013 Apr 12, 12:24am
I hope that you realize by now that this is none of your business... and that no good can come from your telling him off, telling your wife about it, etc.
What outcome do you expect? He won't appreciate being "outed" at all and you'll lose a friend & business contact, or his wife will leave him & you'll lose a friend & business contact, or your wife will become angry at you for ruining her friendship and not only will she lose her buddy, but you'll also lose a friend & business contact... This little situation could blow up and by the time you're done, you might not be married either.
I've seen shit like this too many times. Avoid the subject and if he pushes it, tell him you're happily married and don't want to hear about it. When he's caught and it's out in the open, tell your wife he had said something about it but that you hadn't believed him. deny, deny, deny.
Years ago, I had a friend tell me about an awesome man she met who lived with his sister & her kid - the sister was out of town and the baby was so cute, she played with him for hours and then they screwed in every room of the tiny house. She described where he lived & how they had double-dated with some of his friends. He also gave her a pretty little necklace during their several day tryst.
The only problem was, I knew the guy's wife and that was their child that woman #2 had played with. I told her the deal, and asked if I could tell the wife when she returned from her business trip. She said it was ok. She gave me the necklace to return to his wife, which had been a birthday gift.
So, woman #1 returns to town, I take her to my house and tell her the deal. She's angry and doesn't believe me - thinks I'm jealous of her p.o.s., unemployed man who has assured her he would never step out on her again (!). I then give her the little necklace memento that he had given woman #2. She accuses me of having an affair with the p.o.s.
In the ensuing shitstorm, I lost two friends, the married couple stayed together... it affected my work (woman #1's brother was a customer)... Oh, and she tried to tell my fiancé that I had put the moves on the p.o.s. No immediate good came out of the situation.
Things like this never turn out well.
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says
Find out when he is next traveling and show up naked at his house and give his wife the good news after you give her the bad news.
AF: you are twisted. But I like it...
Tenpoundbass
2013 Apr 12, 12:44am
What outcome do you expect? He won't appreciate being "outed" at all and you'll lose a friend & business contact, or his wife will leave him & you'll lose a friend & business contact, or your wife will become angry at you for ruining her friendship and not only will she lose her buddy, but you'll also lose a friend & business contact... This little situation could blow up and by the time you're done, you might not be married either.
Or his wife and your continue as buddies, but the ex-wife might start having a ball, and the time of her life, that may get your wife to reevaluate her own happiness. One of the biggest threat to a marriage, is a wife's friend who is rediscovering her self, and becomes advocate for their friends to do the same.
Perhaps so they will have a camaraderie, and become clubbing cougar buddies.
I have a simple philosophy, "Point that thing somewhere else.".
When friends or pseudo family come around me with shit spewing, I do every thing I can to get them to point it in the other direction. Every time you get involved in other people's shit, you'll get the most shit on you.
I am willing to try to help people to get out of the shit, but only if I'm asked.
Many people just like to inform you of the deep shit they are in, while not asking for any help at all.
I'm not going to offer my opinion on this, but I just wanted to say that its kind of cool that even though a lot of us have very different political opinions and sometimes get into heated debates that at least on this thread, there's some really thoughtful and meaningful responses. Yay for us!
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I work with a huge client in Los Angeles a couple of days a week. It's pretty lucrative work, and this client alone accounts for about 20% of my businesses revenue per month. The way I "got in" was through a friend who hooked me up with the right people in the company, and as luck would have it, he's my direct contact within this mega corporation.
We're both married with kids. I met him during my days at Goldman Sachs. Back then I was more of the "serious, get my work done to satisfy my 20 bosses type of guy", and he was more of the "joke around all the time, can't wait to punch out and drink" guy. The thing is, even with his attitude, he did get his work done, but he never seemed to like it. I think they kept him around just because everyone liked him. He would spot people $20 for lunch if they forgot their wallet, always volunteered to give our group of friends a ride to lunch, etc.
He is one of those guys who is a skilled conversationalist, both at starting, and continuing, and I think his people skills have helped his career immensely. He just gets people to feel comfortable really easily. I got sent to Hong Kong and other parts of Asia for a few years, he ended up staying state side and moving up the ladder, so to speak. By the time I came back, this guy was solidly mid-management, almost director level.
I ended up starting my own consulting firm, and he kept moving up the ladder, going to different companies, getting promoted, higher salary,etc. So now he's pretty much a big shot at a huge company in L.A and I'm happy for him.
So last week, I'm in the city until around 6pm, and I know with the traffic going back to Orange County, I figure I'll just have dinner with the guy. We go to Maestro's in Beverly Hills, and have a feast. This guy puts it on his company CC, and pays for the whole thing (just the type of guy he is). We get into a conversation about our families, etc. I tell him about my kids and how happy I am to be a home owner again, etc. Then he drops it on me.
Friend: "So all those years being married, did you cheat on her on business trips?"
Me: "No, I'd never do anything like that. I look, but I don't touch. Have you?"
Friend: "All the time. You're missing out. I rub beards when I'm out on the East Coast, and I even have a steady in New York. She's married too. It's actually made my marriage better."
Now the thing is, I KNOW his wife, and his wife and my wife know each other. They're Facebook friends, they sometimes call each other to plan play dates at the beach We've had them over for dinner, our kids have played in our backyard together, I mean, we're pretty tight. Also, his wife is BEAUTIFUL. She's 15 years younger than he is, tall, takes care of her body, and just a sweet gal.
After the dinner, I kept thinking to myself, should I talk this guy out of it? He's probably been doing it for YEARS. I don't think I should get involved and "rat him out" to his wife, but it's all been so heavy, like when you have this dark secret you don't want anyone to know, but it feels like your face is screaming it out to everyone because of the feelings of guilt. My wife even asked me if anything was wrong the other day in bed, and I couldn't hide my discomfort at knowing my close friend was betraying his families trust in such a way. Totally changed my perception of him.
Anyway, I'm not sure what to do at this point. I don't want things to get awkward but I'm thinking of telling him what an idiot he is for doing what he's doing, but I worry about the personal relationship having an effect on the business relationship. I could live with losing the client, I suppose, but I'd feel pretty bad about losing him as a friend since I've pretty much known him since after I got out of business school...