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How THe Supreme Court Will Rule On Obamacare

By ohomen171 following x   2012 Jun 24, 12:26am 2,432 views   13 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


Everyone is tensely awaiting the Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare. I think that it will,more or less, survive. One of the few good appointment Bush II made was Chief Justice Roberts. His ideology is conservative. When he puts on his judicial robes and goes into court he is fair and impartial. I would love to be in his court anytime. If Obamacare is struck down many sick people will die. This part is frightening. The big winners will be HMO's like Kaiser that will get $36 billion in Medicare cuts restored.

#politics

1   Vicente   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 24, 1:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ohomen171 says

One of the few good appointment Bush II made was Chief Justice Roberts. His ideology is conservative. When he puts on his judicial robes and goes into court he is fair and impartial.

You cannot resolve sentence 2 with 3.

I have no way to know how this will turn out, neither do you. Justice Roberts rulings so far (see Citizens United) indicate he always rules on the side of Big Money. So the likelihood is you will be disappointed if you are expecting it to "more or less, survive" whatever that means.

2   Poop Deck   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 24, 1:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's pretty clear which side Chief Justice Roberts will fall on the issue. Like many other rulings the balance will be tipped by Justice Kennedy.

3   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2012 Jun 24, 2:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We all know it will be a 5-4 decision. The only question is which way will Kennedy vote.

The Obama/Romney plan is a victory for the health insurance industry though. They get to force healthy young adults to carry insurance and that will raise prices for everyone and further drain the Millennials in particular. Forcing people to buy a product without putting in price controls always raises prices.

Of course, old people love the idea of forcing young people to pay for insurance that is used by old people and not young people. The old love to have the young subsidize their health care costs.

In a just society, the money received from various age groups would be isolated, thereby ensuring that no age group is forced to subsidize another. In such a system, the young would pay damn little for complete coverage.

Of course, without a single payer system, there can be no reform. A single payer system is absolutely necessary to make health care providers, particularly hospitals, charge all people the same amount. Each provider can charge a different amount for X, but not a different amount to each person.

Think about it. When was the last time you went into a restaurant and were not allowed to see prices until after the dinner and then the restaurant got you charge you 10 times as much for the New York Strip as the guy in the chair next to you? That's why we absolutely need single payer.

And single payer doesn't have to be the government either. That's bullshit. It could be an automated clearinghouse sitting in some server farm. After set up costs, i.e. software development, the system runs itself. Hell, if the freaking Republicans insist on it being run by a private firm, I'll fucking run it. I'll charge 0.01% of the transactions and become a billionaire in a few years. It would be the easiest job of my life.

Personally, I hope that the individual mandate is struck down. It is socially unjust as it fucks over the young and anyone who changes jobs frequently, which is par for course in IT.

I'd be willing to accept an individual mandate if the following real reforms were made:

1. Single payer.
2. Nationwide public option.
3. Health insurance is absolutely divorced from employment. Employers don't even get to offer health insurance. Everyone goes through the same system and you don't lose insurance when you switch or lose jobs.
4. No corporation can buy a health insurance provider including other insurance companies. No health insurance companies can merge.
5. Profit margins on health insurance is maxed out at 10%. The other 90% must go entirely to care. Given that health insurance companies take no risk, there is no justification for economic profit. And since people are being forced to buy this insurance, the companies have no right to profits. If the companies don't like that, then no individual mandate, but we keep the other 4 points above. Then we can let the free market determine profit margins.

4   Poop Deck   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 24, 1:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What will be interesting to watch is when the individual mandate is struck down what the insurance companies will do - without young people being forced to pay for insurance, how are these companies going to pay for all these people with pre-existing conditions they they have to cover under the law? Wasn't the mandate the reason they all signed onto this train-wreck legislation in the first place?

5   Vicente   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 25, 12:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Supreme Court says still not ruling on RomneyCare today.

Are they afraid? Still waffling? Strange.

6   tdr   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 25, 12:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Obamacare does not equal Romneycare. Federal vs. state. Very different.

7   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2012 Jun 25, 12:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

ohomen171 says

If Obamacare is struck down many sick people will die.

Really?

There's no Obama care right now as we speak where's the freaking dead bodies piling up?

It's not healthcare it's Mussolinicare. Buy from the company store or face the firing squad.

8   Vicente   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 25, 12:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

There's no Obama care right now as we speak where's the freaking dead bodies piling up?

Well they could pile them in front of your door if you like.

Annually about 45,000 die from lack of health insurance.

Example:

For years, Paul Hannum didn't have health insurance while he worked as a freelance cameraman in southern California.

One Sunday, Hannum complained of a stomachache which alarmed his pregnant fiancée, Sarah Percy. "He wasn't a complainer," she said. "He's the type of guy who, if he got a cold, he'll power through it. I never had known him to complain about anything."

Hannum thought he had a stomach flu or food poisoning from bad chicken. On Monday, his brother saw him looking ashen and urged him to go to the hospital. "He had a little girl on the way," his older brother Curtis Hannum said. "He didn't want the added burden of an ER visit to hang on their finances. He thought 'I'll just wait,' and he got worse and worse."

By the time Hannum got to the hospital and was admitted to surgery, it was too late.

Paul Hannum, 45, died on Thursday, August 3, 2006, from a ruptured appendix. His daughter, Cameron was born two months later.

9   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2012 Jun 25, 12:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Dan8267 says

1. Single payer.

If you think that sounds sexy, move to South Florida and try enjoying the highest home insurance rates in the world, thanks to our monopoly single payer home insurance "Citizens" Comrade insurance.
They just rased my rate $600 a year, though I should feel lucky they raised my brother $1200.
The Monopoly was started after state legislators threw all of the insurace companies out because they wanted to raise the rate from on average $800 only 10%, they said no. Then started this single payer.
Now the average rate is $3,000, well actually $3800 because they just raised everyone on average 30% in one year.

This effect is already being felt in the health industry, since Obamacare passed the average premium has gone up 70-85% with no one in Washington saying dick about it. They are to busy doing the happy dance watching their stock climb through the roof.

FUCKING SUCKERS!

10   Poop Deck   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 25, 12:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

It's not healthcare it's Mussolinicare. Buy from the company store or face the firing squad.

Facepalm. The ACA is a piece of crap, but comparisons of politicians to fascist dictators needs to stop.

11   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2012 Jun 25, 12:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Vicente says

Paul Hannum, 45, died on Thursday, August 3, 2006, from a ruptured appendix. His daughter, Cameron was born two months later.

Under Obama care NOTHING changes in the outcome of this story.
Under Obama care the Middle class is straddled with the burden of paying for healthcare for the poor, while not being guaranteed (Affordable)healthcare for them selves. In spite of the legislation's name.
Under Obama care Paul Hannum may have just paid his $2000 fine at the end of the year, because he couldn't afford the $2000 a month.
Paul Hannum, would still be uninsured the day his appendix busted.
Who would you Liberals blame then?

12   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2012 Jun 25, 1:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

JonnyDanger says

Facepalm. The ACA is a piece of crap, but comparisons of politicians to fascist dictators needs to stop.

Only a Facist dictator would demand one class pays $2000 at the end of the year, if they don't pay $2000 a month to a company, and still leave that class uninsured. While claiming to cover "Everyone".

13   elliemae   ignore (0)   2012 Jun 26, 2:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Depending upon Paul's income, his health insurance probably wouldn't have cost as much because it would have been subsidized.

The example wasn't a good one, though. The guy delayed his visit to the ER because he didn't like to complain... his appendix probably burst and he went toxic before he allowed himself to be treated.


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