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Good argument to not have kids. Are they worth 200K?


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by RentingForHalfTheCost     💰tip   follow   2012 Apr 19, 1:34am  

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1   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 1:38am  

I came to the same conclusion a long time ago, w/o the financial aspect of it.

2   tiny tina   2012 Apr 19, 1:43am  

Nope. They're worth way more.

3   rooemoore   2012 Apr 19, 1:45am  

You do get to sell the house someday, right? By that time the difference will probably be $300k.

4   PockyClipsNow   2012 Apr 19, 2:52am  

ummmm we all know what this means the 'good schools' is a euphemism/PC correct way to state 'live away from wrong kind of minorities'.

If the title said 'it cost 200k to live away from this race and this other race because they commit 90% of all crime' it would be racist.

I really want to live in an area with BAD SCHOOL tests but low crime (to get low house price, im not having kids ever) I dont think this situ can exist!!!! can it?

5   tiny tina   2012 Apr 19, 2:56am  

PockyClipsNow says

I really want to live in an area with BAD SCHOOL tests but low crime (to get low house price, im not having kids ever) I dont think this situ can exist!!!! can it?

I think that's a good point. In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones. So another way of asking the original question is, "is your own well-being worth $200k?"

6   SFace   2012 Apr 19, 3:10am  

tiny tina says

I think that's a good point. In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones. So another way of asking the original question is, "is your own well-being worth $200k?"

The way I see it, if the decision affects me only, I can pretty much tolerate anything and can live in 50% of the bay area. But with a family of four, now my decisions affects 4 people, not one so my criteria is way more stringent and affect the lives of a lot more people. When it is all said and done, it comes down to the 5% of the bay area. Not suprisingly, they are also the same area everyone wants as well and bidding for.

It's a pass thru cost anyway. The only incrental additioal cost of living in a premium area is the incrmental increase in property tax and interest, if any. and even those are tax deductable so not only are the increment not that great, it is tax subsidized. The extra incremental cost is a tremendous value that effects a family of say, four or five people. That is why the school premium is there and will continue to expand further. Private schools tuition has been rising way ahead the rate of inflation.

7   Hysteresis   2012 Apr 19, 3:19am  

tiny tina says

Nope. They're worth way more.

probably why you're poor.

8   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 3:22am  

tiny tina says

In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones.

I would not say definitely. There are many neighborhood that have low crime but really shitty schools. You do however pay a premium for the low crime, but not quite as much as the good school premium.

9   tiny tina   2012 Apr 19, 3:23am  

Hysteresis says

tiny tina says

Nope. They're worth way more.

probably why you're poor.

Not sure where you got I'm poor.

And doesn't this count as directly insulting another, violating Patrick's rules?

10   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 3:23am  

tiny tina says

Nope. They're worth way more.

Yep, they are worth way more.

11   tiny tina   2012 Apr 19, 3:26am  

leoj707 says

I would not say definitely. There are many neighborhood that have low crime but really shitty schools. You do however pay a premium for the low crime, but not quite as much as the good school premium.

Name one.
It's possible, but the areas I can think of, EPA, parts of SC, many parts of SJ - they have pretty high crime compared to the better parts of the South Bay.

12   EBGuy   2012 Apr 19, 3:30am  

the incrmental increase in property tax and interest, if any. and even those are tax deductable
As I pointed out a couple of days ago, the state of California had recently been arguing that school parcel taxes are NOT tax deductible. Will be interesting to see if they give it another try next year.

13   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 3:42am  

tiny tina says

Name one.

Well, I don't know much about SJ, but living in Oakland I can name several neighborhoods that have relatively low crime when compared to the nice school areas close by (Piedmont, Montclair): Cleveland Heights, Temescal, Adams Point, Lakeshore, Rockridge, etc.

Some areas you might have a good elementary school, but poor middle and high schools.

14   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 3:47am  

Even going to a school in a shitty area is no guarantee of failure. It is MORE up to the parents than the school, and even the environment. One of my closest friends went through the public schooling system in EPA (she's white). She saw kids get stabbed, doing hard drugs, all sorts of bad shit. Well, she attended the same private college that I did (and I went to Bellarmine...cue the gay jokes) and is now happily employed as an athletic trainer, married to a good guy and is all-around happy. She graduated HS and college with a near-poerfect GPA. Why? Her parents rode her ass and MADE her inform them of where she was and when at all times.

I realize that this is not the norm for the EPA school district, but I guess being white and having parents that do their job is also abnormal there. She would have been successful no matter where she lived & went to school. That's the hard reality that many parents don't want to accept: their special little flower has no guarantee of success in life. Making more educational resources available to your kid CAN help their chances, but in the end, it is 100% on you as a parent. Period. No amount of money can replace proper parenting. Lots of kids at my college were from wealthy families that lived in top school districts...and the only test they could have passed was the final in "Joint Rolling 101." So again, money and success don't have the correlation that so many people seem to think.

15   Vicente   2012 Apr 19, 3:49am  

When you're on your deathbed I'm sure piles of money will be very heartwarming and eager to hold your hand.

16   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 3:49am  

Hysteresis says

i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong.

LOL....burrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnned

17   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 3:51am  

Vicente says

When you're on your deathbed I'm sure piles of money will be very heartwarming and eager to hold your hand.

This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved.

18   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 3:52am  

Hysteresis says

i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong.

Yeah, what is tina some kind of Einstein?

I equate the idea that intelligence and income are highly correlated with low intelligence.

19   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 3:55am  

bmwman91 says

This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved.

Yeah, I agree that it is defiantly an individual thing. I would certainly not advocate that everyone should have kids. Hell, even a lot of people that want them should probably not have them.

Funny thing with the compromises though. With kids I can't do many of the things that I used to love, but I find that I don't really miss them.

20   Hysteresis   2012 Apr 19, 3:56am  

leoj707 says

I equate the idea that intelligence and income are correlated with low intelligence.

well that would be dumb. although not surprising coming from you.

i fear you won't understand the chart below, but others will grasp its meaning

21   tiny tina   2012 Apr 19, 4:01am  

bmwman91 says

Hysteresis says

i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong.

LOL....burrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnned

Ah, I see we've moved onto 3rd grade and started name calling. Ok. Good job guys.

22   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 4:11am  

tiny tina says

Ah, I see we've moved onto 3rd grade and started name calling. Ok. Good job guys.

Oh please. I think that those sentences and vocabulary are more like 6th grade, at least.

23   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 4:13am  

Hysteresis says

i fear you won't understand the chart below, but others will grasp its meaning

I equate the idea that level of education is a good way of determining intelligence with low intelligence.

I guess you think that Bill Gates is an idiot.

24   David9   2012 Apr 19, 4:15am  

tiny tina says

Hysteresis says

tiny tina says

Nope. They're worth way more.

probably why you're poor.

Not sure where you got I'm poor.

And doesn't this count as directly insulting another, violating Patrick's rules?

I'm sure children are price less too you.

Not everyone on the planet shares this view point.

25   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 4:45am  

David9 says

I'm sure children are price less too you.

Not everyone on the planet shares this view point.

Children...the 18-25 year STD!

For some reason, it is largely unsurprising that a forum inhabited mostly by housing bears also has a lot of people that don't have kids.

26   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 5:40am  

bmwman91 says

Children...the 18-25 year STD!

And way more expensive too.

27   David9   2012 Apr 19, 5:44am  

bmwman91 says

Children...the 18-25 year STD!

LOL. I was thinking about this at lunch. I have two very tame examples:

1.) My boss and I have discussed how in the past we were chastised, probably discrimintated against, and generally looked down upon because 'no bells ever went off' and we never had children. We are for the most part happy with our lives now.

2.) A younger couple who are friends, a former boss and his wife a Jewish Princess had a baby and bought a house in 2008. The father has confided in me how trapped he is. The Jewish Princess Mother has had nervous breakdowns because 'he is so helpless' Yes, this hurts me because they are my friends.

Some of us are just not hard wired for it.

28   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 5:52am  

bmwman91 says

This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved.

Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty.

29   David9   2012 Apr 19, 6:02am  

wthrfrk80 says

Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty.

I know of another couple, a man and a woman, who did live in the North East and now reside in the South who have said exactly that.

Another viewpoint of theirs is it should be mandatory, like one of their bulldogs, to go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents, not just 'ploop them out' and hope for the best. But they also realize this does not fit in a democracy.

30   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 6:05am  

wthrfrk80 says

Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty.

I sort of agree. It isn't so much that I don't think that I would derive some sort of personal enjoyment form having them, but that the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried.

My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed. Unfortunately, my fiancee and I will be a wee bit too old to have kids after that. We have 3-5 years as it is before kids sort of stop becoming an option. Thankfully, we are both in agreement about the kids issue!

31   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 6:06am  

David9 says

go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents

In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril.

32   David9   2012 Apr 19, 6:10am  

bmwman91 says

David9 says

go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents

In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril.

LOL! I just had to agree. Not to mention I don't think we have the funding for it. :-(

33   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   2012 Apr 19, 6:14am  

IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning.

34   bmwman91   2012 Apr 19, 6:17am  

Mark D says

marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning.

On paper, sure. There are intangibles that, for some, justify it. In the end, we are all still human, and the point of everything we do is to attain happiness. It is hard to quantify that (or impossible). People run into trouble when they blindly make huge choices in life because of social dogmas that promise happiness, and then feel unhappy (when they think that they are supposed to be happy). Happiness requires thought and careful consideration of one's actions, and a good helping of self-honesty (seeing through your own BS). It's easier said than done, though.

35   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 6:21am  

bmwman91 says

the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried.
My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed.

Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population.

36   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 6:23am  

Mark D says

IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning.

Well put! Especially if you're a guy and she can take 50% of the stuff you own.

How about instead of gay-marriage we just abolish ALL marriage? That sounds like the most sensible thing to do.

37   leo707   2012 Apr 19, 6:25am  

wthrfrk80 says

Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population.

Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future.

38   David9   2012 Apr 19, 6:25am  

wthrfrk80 says

Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population.

Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family? With or without children, btw.

39   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 6:28am  

David9 says

Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family?

When did banks, billionaires, and investors ever care about anything but the bottom line?

Agree. Another good reason to not have children.

40   freak80   2012 Apr 19, 6:29am  

leoj707 says

Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future.

Then isn't it a bit irresponsible to have them? We have birth-control and abortion. Use them.

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