patrick.net

dunnross says

I bet the teachers at these schools are letting the chineese students cheat on the english standardized tests, just to prop up the API for their school.

API is a "grading" of the school, not the students. So, there's only an indirect benefit to the students to do well on that assessment. I doubt that all those students would jeopardize admission to an Ivy or elite UC campus to inflate the API of their teachers and administrators. Too little reward for the risk.

jynnyrttn,

You are not going to like it here. You are accustomed to Living Large in Texas. In order to Live Large here, unless you are swimming in money you will commute so far that your quality of life will suck.

Consider keeping your family in Texas and continue looking for a job in Texas while for the time being you earn your paycheck here .

B.A.C.A.H. says

jynnyrttn,

You are not going to like it here. You are accustomed to Living Large in Texas. In order to Live Large here, unless you are swimming in money you will commute so far that your quality of life will suck.

Consider keeping your family in Texas and continue looking for a job in Texas while for the time being you earn your paycheck here .

You're not with the tourism board are you?

meetyaks says

Thanks guys for your suggestions. Cupertino is an option (because of schools). Other option we are considering is San ramon which adds 30min of commute each way.

Go east of Cupertino, at this point even Los Gatos may have deals better than Cupertino.. commute via Highway 9..
I will warn you the peace of mind... will kill you...

It may surpise you the commute, Stevens Creek, to Cupertino from DT SJ isnt bad either. So SJ maybe an option...

B.A.C.A.H. says

Consider keeping your family in Texas and continue looking for a job in Texas while for the time being you earn your paycheck here .

Is this Texas Big ? 3x bigger than Cupertino...

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/2118-Shiangzone-Ct-95121/home/972348

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1603-Rangewood-Pl-95138/home/700132

jynny,

I am a lifelong Bay Arean, it is the only place I have lived and it will take a lot for me to leave.

But most of my relatives live in your part of the USA. I stay in touch with them and I have spent a lot of time with them, visiting them, and sometimes they have come here to visit me. That's the personal part. On the professional part, for a long time I worked in an outfit that had half its operations in Texas, half in "Silicon Valley". I got to know the Texas people really well. Went to their facility several times over the years and got the "relocation sales pitch" from their management, who included among them former Californians who relocated there to savor the good life of Living Large in Texas.

So I think I am as well-versed in "the other side" as a lifelong Bay Arean could be.

I am telling you, you will not like it here.

Hey I appreciate the opinion.

jnnyrttn,

It's a losing battle trying to live directly in Cupertino. You're competing with so much foreign money, it's ridiculous.

As others have said, if you can stand a 30-40 minute commute, you'll get much more house, and less stress about space and mortgage payments. You might even find a carpool for cheap.

Goran_K says

jnnyrttn,

It's a losing battle trying to live directly in Cupertino. You're competing with so much foreign money, it's ridiculous.

how much is a ridiculous amount of foreign money? how do you quantify the amount? anecdotal stories?

Goran_K says

As others have said, if you can stand a 30-40 minute commute

You might even get a chance to listen to your CD collection..

thomas.wong1986 says

Goran_K says

As others have said, if you can stand a 30-40 minute commute

You might even get a chance to listen to your CD collection..

Or catch up on phone calls (if you have a good blue tooth headset).

jnnyrttn says

NOW, where do you guys stand on rent/buy?

Rent. Especially when you're just moving here and getting settled. Colleagues who work with me in San Francisco moved here and rented in places like Burlingame and San Mateo for a year or two before buying places in the same areas. They seem happy with it and purchase prices will go down while you're renting.

FunTime says

jnnyrttn says

NOW, where do you guys stand on rent/buy?

Rent. Especially when you're just moving here and getting settled. Colleagues who work with me in San Francisco moved here and rented in places like Burlingame and San Mateo for a year or two before buying places in the same areas. They seem happy with it and purchase prices will go down while you're renting.

I would be interested to hear why you think purchase prices will go down while I'm renting. Not disagreeing but it seems the consensus after reading many articles and blogs is that the market in that area is at or very near its low point. Some of those with that opinion say it is because there is available money floating around, but inventories are low due to people waiting out the economy. Now my personal take is that if all that is true.....from a price elasticity standpoint if values did continue to fall slowly, the turds that are on the market now will be irresistible to pass up for another class of buyers waiting in the wings. Of course if there is another major economic crisis all bets are off and it may be time to get off the grid and build a hovel in the hills....

.NOW, where do you guys stand on rent/buy?

If you are moving from Texas, rent for atleast one year before buying. you should be able to find a rental home in cupertino for 3-4K. One you are familiar with the area, you may decide to buy in a different place and commute daily

jnnyrttn says

I would be interested to hear why you think purchase prices will go down while I'm renting. Not disagreeing but it seems the consensus after reading many articles and blogs is that the market in that area is at or very near its low point.

Mine is just another opinion and probably not as well informed as others here. I would not summarize the consensus at patrick.net the same way as you. The consensus is prices will go down. Did you read the bloomberg articles of the last two days on the main page? Do you follow the Shiller data? Does the ratio of people's incomes to home prices make any kind of supply/demand sense to you? If you look at where prices trend historically, there's room to go down. They've gone down a lot, but there was a lot of room for them to go down. I haven't figured out what year would make sense in the Bay Area, as what really matters to me is the income/price ratio. Shiller draws a trend line where prices have been heading. I've seen such a graph on patrick.net recently, but don't remember where at this moment.

jnnyrttn says

Need to find a home for me and my family (wife plus three small kids) somewhere in silicon valley. New job is in Cupertino.

Congrats on the new job, hope you negotiated well.

In any case, unless you are chinese/Taiwanese coming from Texas, you will hate Cupertino. I know your kids will because it will be a culture shock for them more than anything else. But you'll also love the weather year round and the working environment is unlike anywhere in this world. You have it easy.

With three small kids, you do need to be within a good school district as that seems like a minimum criteria. The area most similar to Texas will probably be the TRI-Valley area of Dublin/San Ramon/Plesanaton. Maybe others can comment what the commute will be like as I'm sure many make that trek and maybe there is a work shuttle that drops off at Bart station.

Los Gatos, Saratoga, Palo Alto is even more expensive than Cupertino. Your kids will probably appreciate it more though.

San Jose may be a choice as the school district assignment is divided by sections (Districts within districts). I heard a lot of good things about Willow Glen (or probably the west side bordering Cupertino, Campbell)

You should rent so the second question is irrelevant. The places you like will probably go up becuase everyone with the means like them as well. Not enough to overcome the fact that you need to figure out where you want to raise your family first.

Wow, so many single minded folks on this thread. I figure I'll contribute.

Worked at a law firm in Austin so I figure I can talk about living in Texas and CA with some real basis of "facts".

Let's start with Round Rock....it's a pretty crappy town with little access to anywhere interesting. In Cupertino, at least you can hoof it down to Santa Cruz, over to Half Moon Bay, etc.

Politics. Your mileage may vary. I find not talking to bible thumpers or folks who call Arabs "sand niggers" to be good for my health. When I bought my place in Austin, a neighbor came by and said I was a good gardener and asked me how much I charged. Back in college, I got pulled over near San Antonio during Spring Break and got asked if I had crossed the "River." I was like...um the "Rio Grande". Yeah, as an Asian with a tan, I got profiled as a Latino. nice....

I'll pay a premium to get away from that. I'd also pay the premium here for great weather, skiing, cycling and climbing.

Nice try Thomas, Apple stock is at $500, what's Dell stock at? The googlers I know are panicking about the facebook IPO and trying to buy now. I don't think purchase prices are going down in Burlingame when that FB IPO rolls around. Burlingame schools have a great API and a few Asian couples I know have tossed down over 1.2 million for homes there in the past year.

Maybe I'll take a bath on the place I just bought in SF. So what? It's down 30% from it's high and I can rent it out to cover. Money's not everything and I make enough that I can pay for it. Most the folks buying these homes are coming in with a big down payment so it's not like these are uneducated folks buying up real estate with 2-5% down. If they want to splurge on their home instead of taking big vacations or going into credit card debt, that's their choice.

We lived in Cupertino for about 11 years, renting 2/1 apartment across Apple head quoter for 1,400 + per months, then moved to 3/2 townhouse in MV area for 2,200 in 2006, rented a house in the same area for $2,400 in 2007-2009 before we purchased 3/2 condo with 3.5% down in Santa Clara with Cupertino schools, not the best schools in Cupertino, but anyway. Our monthly mortgage is 2,200, plus $400+ HOA. I'm sure there are plenty of condos in Santa Clara/San Jose with Cupertino schools even for less, at least in our complex. We're planning to buy a house as soon as we find the one that we like and not overpriced, we don't care anymore about good schools (one child in college now, another one is finishing HS next year) and rent this one or sell it. 3-4k is insane in my opinion for Cupertino schools, its not the schools are great but wealthy parents who pay for after school classes and test preparation...

jnnyrttn says

I would be interested to hear why you think purchase prices will go down while I'm renting. Not disagreeing but it seems the consensus after reading many articles and blogs is that the market in that area is at or very near its low point. Some of those with that opinion say it is because there is available money floating around, but inventories are low due to people waiting out the economy. Now my personal take is that if all that is true.....from a price elasticity standpoint if values did continue to fall slowly, the turds that are on the market now will be irresistible to pass up for another class of buyers waiting in the wings. Of course if there is another major economic crisis all bets are off and it may be time to get off the grid and build a hovel in the hills....

SF Bay Area has been around for a long time, as well as Cupertino and yes Apple Computers. Some just discovered both in recent years. But do you see similar pattern in the 80s. Today, we have alot of new people in Bay Area, and sadly they were misinformed about RE prices. Of course they give the same reasons for higher prices, but those same reasons have been around for a long time when we had lower reasonable prices. Thus that is why you have a bubble.
Nada! Over the long run, RE prices, adjusted for inflation, remain flat.

SFace says

In any case, unless you are chinese/Taiwanese coming from Texas, you will hate Cupertino. I know your kids will because it will be a culture shock for them more than anything else.

wtf. I hate living in a world with comments like this one. I don't even understand what this might mean except that people are only happy living near people who look the same?

We share far more similarities than differences.

zhanka says

its not the schools are great but wealthy parents who pay for after school classes and test preparation...

"Wealthy' parents plan long ahead and send their kids to Bellermine, Presentation, and other private schools. If you compare costs they are actual savings buying elsewhere and sending your kids to private schools like Bell. But its a herd buying mentality based on gossip and not long standing facts...

DukeLaw says

Nice try Thomas, Apple stock is at $500, what's Dell stock at? The googlers I know are panicking about the facebook IPO and trying to buy now

As we have found out.. Apple did not hand out stock to employees.. You forget Steve Jobs hates money and dislikes the notion how people behavior changes. A leasson learned from the 80s.

page 15..."The Company did not grant any stock options during the three months ended December 31, 2011 and December 25, 2010"

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/1709142427x0x536523/381559d7-04a1-40d5-8e2a-236e3f867158/AAPL%20Q1FY12%2010Q%2001.25.12.pdf

DukeLaw says

The googlers I know are panicking about the facebook IPO and trying to buy now.

Buy what ? and from who ? .. hasnt been priced or issued yet.
Im sure the SEC would be interested..

People come to SV thinking 1996-2000 was the norm in prior years and after 2000.. I got news.. that era is over! Unless you want to commit securities fraud. Im sure the SEC would be interested as well..

thomas.wong1986 says

Over the long run, RE prices, adjusted for inflation, remain flat.

Tell that to folks living in Detroit.

thomas.wong1986 says

If you compare costs they are actual savings buying elsewhere and sending your kids to private schools like Bell. But its a herd buying mentality based on gossip and not long standing facts...

Actually, that is not true. Others have pointed this out to you numerous times, but you choose to ignore them. That is fine, but at least stop repeating the BS.

thomas.wong1986 says

Buy what ? and from who ? .. hasnt been priced or issued yet.
Im sure the SEC would be interested..
People come to SV thinking 1996-2000 was the norm in prior years and after 2000.. I got news.. that era is over! Unless you want to commit securities fraud. Im sure the SEC would be interested as well..

I'm guessing he meant buy a house now before all the FB millionaires spend their IPO money.

tatupu70 says

Tell that to folks living in Detroit.

see chart...and data points

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/MidWest.html

thomas.wong1986 says

tatupu70 says

Tell that to folks living in Detroit.

see chart...and data points

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/MidWest.html

So Detriot is severely undervalued right now, right?

tatupu70 says

Actually, that is not true. Others have pointed this out to you numerous times, but you choose to ignore them. That is fine, but at least stop repeating the BS.

The tuition fees are published on their websites. Any reasonable person can make the judgement call on buying in parts of Santa Clara County compared to Cupertino and see the difference.

How much in Cupertino,
Less Private schools costs
Less Other SCC prices
equals
Excess bubble prices your paying living in Cup
... and its certainly pretty large.

do the math...

thomas.wong1986 says

do the math...

Done. It's pretty simple to figure out that it's cheaper to buy in a good school district than to go to private school.

tatupu70 says

So Detriot is severely undervalued right now, right?

good time to buy if your interested...

Las Vegas, Arizona

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/SouthWest.html

Miami

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/Florida.html

thomas.wong1986 says

good time to buy if your interested...

I'm not, because I don't think it's undervalued. I don't think every city will track inflation over long time periods. I don't try to apply macro theories to micro environments.

tatupu70 says

Done. It's pretty simple to figure out that it's cheaper to buy in a good school district than to go to private school.

You can buy a shack for $1M in Cup or get a real home in other parts of SCC.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/2118-Shiangzone-Ct-95121/home/972348

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1603-Rangewood-Pl-95138/home/700132

Fact is you can knock off $100-200K and that pays more than enough for tuition Bell fees several times over.

tatupu70 says

I'm not, because I don't think it's undervalued. I don't think every city will track inflation over long time periods. I don't try to apply macro theories to micro environments.

So the basis of Robert Shillers studies are all wrong ?

So why did Silicon valley back in the early 90s fall back to inflation adjusted line. What went wrong with the micro environment?

Someone took it in the shorts....

Property History for 1603 RANGEWOOD Pl
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jan 30, 2012 Pending (Pending With Release) -- -- MLSListings #1
Jan 18, 2012 Listed (Active) $919,900 -- MLSListings #1
Sep 20, 2011 Sold foreclosed. $846,000 -- Public Records
Apr 20, 2006 Sold (Public Records) $1,555,000 27.8%/yr Public Records
Sep 10, 2004 Sold (Public Records) $1,048,000 -- Public Records

thomas.wong1986 says

1603 RANGEWOOD Pl

That's not Cupertino.

thomas.wong1986 says

tatupu70 says

I'm not, because I don't think it's undervalued. I don't think every city will track inflation over long time periods. I don't try to apply macro theories to micro environments.

So the basis of Robert Shillers studies are all wrong ?

So why did Silicon valley back in the early 90s fall back to inflation adjusted line. What went wrong with the micro environment?

The Case Shiller doesn't make sense over the long term. Does the price of a median Mahattan home from 1910 track with inflation to 2010? No it doesn't. Why?

Goran_K says

The Case Shiller doesn't make sense over the long term. Does the price of a median Mahattan home from 1910 track with inflation to 2010? No it doesn't. Why?

see 2:55

http://www.youtube.com/embed/d__GPqOVNbE

Goran_K says

That's not Cupertino.

Compare it to what you get in Cupertino for same amount.

thomas.wong1986 says

Done. It's pretty simple to figure out that it's cheaper to buy in a good school district than to go to private school.
You can buy a shack for $1M in Cup or get a real home in other parts of SCC.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/2118-Shiangzone-Ct-95121/home/972348
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1603-Rangewood-Pl-95138/home/700132
Fact is you can knock off $100-200K and that pays more than enough for tuition Bell fees several times over.

House price difference is a pass thru cost. A family buying the school premium for the school district will sell for a premium as well. That is not permanent.

What is permenent is school tuition which is probably 15K a year per child and twice that for high school. Two children and it is around 30K of after-tax permanent cost and presuming it is not private high schools. Private schools have been increasing fees around 5% annually overall.

House price difference does create permanent cost as well. Incremental interest and incremental property tax. In your example, 200K increment @4% +200K @1.25 = $10,500. That increment is tax deductable at 33% and permanent cost net of tax = 7K

$7,000 increment (buying) vs. 30K increment (private school) per year. You'll be way poorer going the private school route. It will cost you 1/2 million.