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2005 Nov 4, 5:24pm   21,107 views  61 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Robert ShillerBen JonesBarry RitholtzBill Fleckenstein

Who are the authors/analyst/bloggers you turn to most often for reliable, relatively bias-free information about Real Estate, economics and/or investing? Have any favorite columns/books/articles? Favorite bubble quotes?

Here are some of my favorite authors/anaylysts:

  • Robert Shiller (Irrational Exuberance)
  • Patrick Killelea (of course!)
  • Ben Jones (thehousingbubbleblog.com)
  • Bill Fleckenstein (Contrarian Chronicles)
  • Barry Ritholtz (TheBigPicture)
  • Mike Shedlock (Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis)
  • Bill Parke & "Tanta" (Calculated Risk)
  • Paul Krugman (NYTimes)
  • Rich Toscano (Professor Piggington's Econo-Almanac for the Landed Poor)
  • Dean Baker (CEPR.net)
  • Jim Puplava (financialsense.com)
  • Jim Grant (Grant's Interest Rate Observer)
  • Nouriel Roubini (Nouriel Roubini's Global EconoMonitor)
  • Here are some favorite Bubble quotes:

    "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent"
    --John Maynard Keynes

    "When the shoe-shine guy gives you stock tips, it's time to get out."
    --Joseph Kennedy (just prior to 1929 stock market crash)

    "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."
    --Prof. Irving Fisher (just prior to 1929 stock market crash)

    “South Florida,'’ he said, ‘’is working off of a totally new economic model than any of us have ever experienced in the past” according to a realtor who predicted that a land shortage will support higher prices indefinitely.”
    --New York Times, Trading Places: Real Estate Instead of Dot-Coms, 3/25/05

    "History has not dealt kindly with the aftermath of protracted periods of low-risk premiums."
    (and)
    "newly abundant liquidity can readily disappear."
    (and)
    "As events evolved, we recognized that, despite our suspicions, it was very difficult to definitively identify a bubble until after the fact — that is, when its bursting confirmed its existence."
    (and)
    "...recent research within the Federal Reserve suggests that many homeowners might have saved tens of thousands of dollars had they held adjustable-rate mortgages rather than fixed-rate mortgages during the past decade, though this would not have been the case, of course, had interest rates trended sharply upward.
    ...American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage. To the degree that households are driven by fears of payment shocks but are willing to manage their own interest rate risks, the traditional fixed-rate mortgage may be an expensive method of financing a home."
    --Alan Greenspan (with irony)

    "Homeownership has become a vehicle for borrowing and leveraging as much as a source of financial security."
    --Former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, Feb 11, 2005

    "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
    --J. Paul Getty

    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his NOT understanding it."
    --Upton Sinclair

    "...capitalism without financial failure is not capitalism at all, but a kind of socialism for the rich".
    --Jim Grant

    "It's only when the tide goes out that you can see who's been swimming naked."
    (and)
    "Be fearful when everyone is greedy and be greedy when everyone is fearful."
    --Warren Buffett

    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
    (and)
    "Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other."
    --Benjamin Franklin

    "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."
    --Herb Stein (a.k.a. 'Stein's Law')

    "It may sometimes be expedient for a man to heat the stove with his furniture. But he should not delude himself by believing that he has discovered a wonderful new method of heating his premises."
    --Ludwig von Mises

    "Asset bubbles tend to last longer and grow larger than any rational person at the time would have thought possible."
    (and)
    "In a market rigged to reward the reckless, imprudent and immoral, the very dumbest thing you can be is a market participant who behaves in a responsible, prudent and moral manner."
    (and)
    "A law that is never enforced is basically the same as no law at all. Scratch that –actually, it’s worse than no law. It undermines people’s respect for law and government, as they watch criminals profiteer from law-breaking with impunity."
    --HARM (had to stroke my own ego :-) )

    "Friends don't let friends buy overpriced houses"
    (and)
    "...when I hear someone boasting about their FICO it makes about as much sense as a slave bragging about his healthy teeth and strong back! For what? So you’ll fetch a higher price at the auction?"
    (and)
    "It's always better [for the borrower] to buy cheap assets with expensive money than to buy expensive assets with cheap money. Down the road, rates will come down and you can always refinance the loan. But you can’t renogotiate the price of the house."
    --DinOR (from Patrick.net)

    “Broke is the New Black”
    --txchick57 (from Ben Jone's blog)

    "with a bucket of money and a box of stupid"
    --RE/MAX Equity Group broker David Foster (referring to the kind of buyer Oregon sellers are looking for)

    "Economics is the art of predicting the past"
    (and)
    "An economist is someone who will tell you tomorrow why the prediction he made yesterday never happened."
    --author unknown

    "a rolling loan gathers no loss"
    --author unknown (very apt for serial-refinancers)

    "If you’re going to do something stupid, do it with large numbers of other people."
    --author unknown (referring to "Don't 1099 me, bro!", Mod-Squad, GSE CLL hike, mortgage rescinding, and other awful government bailout legislation)

    "A housing correction is impossible, as we are running out of both land and condos. The historic relationship between rents/incomes and owner carrying costs has been forever severed. It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy now will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increases. Renters, and those unlucky enough to be born in future generations, will be will be unable to afford a $10 million starter home in 10 years. They will live in tent cities, and used Hondas. This asset bubble is different than all of the others - it will never slow down or pop. The gains are permanent."
    --author unknown

    " A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
    Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."
    --author unknown (often mis-attributed to 18th century Scottish writer/laywer, Alexander Tylter)

    "Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
    --James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

    “Democracy is an upside-down homeowner, a mortgage investor, and a tax-paying renter, voting on what’s for dinner.”
    --"Home-A-Loan", (from Ben Jones' blog, 2007)

    "Capitalism works just fine as long as those that make bad decisions have to pay the price for those bad decisions. When those that make bad decisions don’t reap the consequences, capitalism breaks down, since it breaks the risk vs. reward principle."
    --"packman" (from Ben Jones' blog, 2007)

    "Don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor."
    --John Dickinson (character from play "1776")

    "God, grant me the capital to accept the things I cannot change; the reserves to change the things I can; and the Fed Auction when all that blows up. Amen."
    --Tanta (from Calculated Risk, 2007)

    "Human Nature -- we are competitive creatures, and we need some legitimate boundaries. If you haven't noticed, when left to our own devices, too many of us eventually cut corners, eventually leading to the many scandals we have seen over the past decade: Corrupted analysts, accounting scandals, predatory lending, conflicts of interests, option backdating, etc.
    That is the risk that excessive deregulation and/or inadequate prosecution brings: With no refs on the field of business, too many of the players eventually become steroid-addled, drug-addicted, quasi-criminals."
    --Barry Ritholtz (from The Big Picture, 2007)

    "...the reason that people's attitudes have changed [re: defaulting on mortgages] is because the lenders themselves have decided that creditworthiness doesn't matter - that anyone can get a loan regardless of whether they have a track record of paying their debts or not. Why should creditworthiness be more important to the debtor than it is to the lender?"
    --"trail", (from Ben Jones' blog, 2007)

    "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."
    -–James Madison, The Federalist #51 (1788)

    "Capitalism without failure is the very worst form of socialism."
    -–Peter P (from Patrick.net)

    “Nothing cures high prices like high prices”
    --author unknown

    "Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."
    --John Wayne

    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 41 - 61 of 61        Search these comments

    41   KurtS   2005 Nov 6, 3:30pm  

    You mean White Tooth, Montana isn’t PRIME? Are you out of your mind?
    I know somebody who lives there….so it MUST be prime.

    Unfortunately, for Inuk Igaliku a retired whaler in Sisimuit, Greenland..."

    42   SJ_jim   2005 Nov 6, 3:30pm  

    Wow…a tad steep, and here people complain about Marin prices. That’s roughly the same price for a similar home in Marin (excluding the high-end nabes)

    Yeah, this is probably one of the only "intangible" areas in san jose. Turn-of-the-century homes actually kept in nice condition...not far from downtown. Place where city politicians have historically lived, etc.
    Home of San Jose's "old money" lol lol LOL!

    43   SJ_jim   2005 Nov 6, 3:32pm  

    Okay, well, I think the house had a livable basement, so the 1200 ft^2 may be a little misleading. Marin is PRIMEST!

    44   SJ_jim   2005 Nov 6, 3:32pm  

    goooooooood nite!

    45   OO   2005 Nov 6, 3:37pm  

    Southbayrenter,

    I know which development you are talking about - the murano, the yard is a tiny 1800 sqft! I actually drove by there and was curious to check out if it were a SFH or a TH, so guess what, I got my car trapped in the driveway because I couldn't turn around! You need to schedule with your neighbor in the morning or nobody gets out.

    Yeah, that McMansion is selling for 1.05M per piece or so, I couldn't help laughing on my way out. It is situated right next to the entrance of 85. I actually know of a guy who bought there and is trying to rent out for 4000 a month to cover his mortgage. His house has been sitting on the market for around 3 months with no tenant. I guess nobody wants to pay $4000 a month to live in a TH right next to the freeway, too bad.

    46   OO   2005 Nov 6, 3:39pm  

    Oops, I meant the lot. The lot size is around 1600-1800 sqft, the smallest that I have ever seen in my life (even smaller than SFHs I saw in Japan). Coming from Hong Kong myself, I say the Americans have really pushed the envelope of living small.

    47   KurtS   2005 Nov 6, 11:51pm  

    KurtS - where are you getting this stuff! Hilarious.
    Where is SWIMSUIT?

    Jack--
    Now you know what too much coffee does to my head!

    Sisimuit--on the prime "gold coast" of Greenland.
    Everybody who's anybody lives there.

    Newsfreak--
    I'm hearing more stories like these of a California exodus
    NIce to read everyone doesn't want to live here anymore.
    Where's that Surfer-X guy? His day may someday come.

    48   DinOR   2005 Nov 7, 1:47am  

    I recall an interview with Stephen Roach on Bloomberg's T.V where the line of questioning started with the the housing bubble and the interviewer tried to move on to the next topic and Stephen just kept on hammering away at it! That was classic, he felt so strongly that it was obvious that he felt that everything in our economy today centered around it. There is also a great article that Patrick posted that goes something like "The United States of Real Estate". It was hysterical! The author went on about, why don't we all just quit our jobs like (like day traders in the 90's) and just flip houses to each other all day long without adding any value whatsoever! I guess that is the part that has bothered me the most about all of this, as bearish as I am about R.E even I can understand paying a premium if the prior owners have made meaningful improvements. Added a pool? New tennis courts? Major additions? I refuse to pay a premium to someone that considers taking out the trash and cutting the lawn once in awhile "home improvement" and then gets offended when market just doesn't want to jump through hoops to make their dream come true.

    49   Allah   2005 Nov 7, 2:09am  

    Oh, and let’s not forget the USD 15.99 housing bubble tote bag:

    http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/779032

    It's probably a former realtor who found a new business opportunity.

    50   Peter P   2005 Nov 7, 3:24am  

    A sister of a friend bought a 500ft condo for $500k. But it’s near the street that runs along the beach, so it must be PRIME!

    500ft is perhaps fine as a hotel room without kitchen. A $500K condo? Is it a condo hotel?

    51   HARM   2005 Nov 7, 3:34am  

    Pergraniteel has been added to the "Housing Bubble Glossary" (Aug 12) thread. I love it!

    52   Peter P   2005 Nov 7, 3:50am  

    What makes something PRIME?

    If the street address or apartment number is 13, 17, or any prime number. Or if the home is in the Marina District of San Francisco.

    53   KurtS   2005 Nov 7, 3:58am  

    This morning 1.9 mill reduced to 1.5.
    I imagine the other 2 homeowners are none too pleased.

    LOL...no kidding!; that's a 22% reduction!
    Which part of Sonoma: the city, or the county?

    54   SJ_jim   2005 Nov 7, 5:04am  

    Pergraniteel has been added to the “Housing Bubble Glossary” (Aug 12) thread. I love it!

    Hey thanks HARM! Phew I finally feel like I contributed something to this blog. :)

    Did SJ Jim come up with Pergraniteel?

    Brilliant!

    Hey now where's my Guinness SQT?!? :)

    For the record I hate pergo just because I've helped install some & I kept thinking "I'd rather re-finish hardwood then tear this up & do all over again". Plus I like real wood.
    Granite & SS...hey not too bad...except when they're used as an excuse to jack-up the prices of coin-op-laundry-facility, shared-carport 35-yr-old 4-plex $hitboxes in SJ. Talk about whipped cream on $hit.

    55   Peter P   2005 Nov 7, 6:42am  

    I really want to build my own house but I don’t think that will ever be a possibility.

    The day will come. When we see that coming, we will talk about it.

    I do not want pergraniteel in my house. :)

    Hard wood and Corian. Black granite windows. :)

    56   KurtS   2005 Nov 7, 7:35am  

    Do a search, click on listing details and look for “On market date”

    That's useful...their "On market date" does check out with properties I know.

    57   KurtS   2005 Nov 7, 8:55am  

    I wonder if the “great powers that be” are quietly selling off their RE assets while telling everyone else and hyping the media with there is no bubble.

    Say, that's never happened before...oh, wait--1999 perhaps?

    Btw, some of those people in the article...talk about recklessness.

    58   praetorian   2005 Nov 7, 12:56pm  

    _smile_

    Deep breaths pbass. Consider this a test of your patience. A trial, if you will.

    Only by transcending your desire for long, descriptive URLs shall you satisfy it.

    Cheers,
    prat

    59   HARM   2005 Nov 7, 2:21pm  

    pbass,

    Sorry about your post getting deleted. I checked the 'under moderation' comments yesterday, and I was able to retrieve only one -- Ha Ha's. I've been having great difficulty with this lately and may have to ask Patrick for help. I also suspect they get auto-deleted after a certain amount of time (24 hours?), so if the thread moderator (me in this case) doesn't check by then, it's too late.

    Again, for future reference, I recommend removing the “http://www.” from your links and they will post just fine.

    60   KurtS   2005 Nov 8, 6:10am  

    Kurt S, these are what I guess one would consider “pied a terre” places. All( I think) are second homes for BA folks, who purchased before the big runup. They are, in either event, all unoccupied. All are in the Glen Ellen region, kind of semi-rural.

    Tim-
    I've been out there...nice country. That said, the homes I've seen out there still strike me as overpriced. I have to wonder if those vacant homes are burning a hole in someone's pocket?

    It taught me a hard lesson, a very good lesson early on. It’s why I don’t have the guts to play the game with this that hard.

    R Patrick-
    Perhaps you've simply learning something? It's not guts when people still buy RE around here; it's financial suicide. Speaking of learning, I had a promising tech side business during the dot-com mania; I'm simply thankful I made some money and got out before I really got burned. It was a close call that I never care to repeat.

    61   B.A.C.A.H.   2005 Nov 8, 2:11pm  

    Me.

    I am my own reputable source. I've lived in different homes in the same neighborhood in East S.J. since the 1968's, as a child in the parents' home, as a renter, and as a homeowner.

    When I was in high school in the 1970's, I became somewhat obsessed with house prices when my best friend's parents sold their house in our neighborhood and moved away. I was sad that my friend moved away, but I was also astounded by a front page headline in the S.J. Mercury News that around the time my friend moved in the Spring of 1977, S.J. homes had appreciated by a third in one year! Imagine that! This made a lasting impression on me, and ever since I've been obsessed with keeping track of the resale prices of homes in the neighborhood, where I have lived all these years, through high school, attending local colleges, and working as an engineer for two decades. I use the Saturday real estate sales listing as my reference.

    The lot-plot of the prices has followed a well-fitted linear regression line with a slope of 8.9% annual appreciation. Oddly, it's kind of slow now, not any recent sales that've been reported. But if I go back to the ASP from Q2 of this year of about 685K, that's roughly a compounded 9.6% annual increase over 1968. To get back on the 8.9% regression line, the 685K home would have to sell for about 540K. Guess what - that's about a 20% decline!

    I keep hearing 20% decline, attributed to Templeton, attributed to increase in interest payments on mortgage rate, etc. So, I guess 20% is probably a reasonable estimate.

    My gut, based on my own anecdotes, says it could be a whole lot worse than 20%, but those comments would be in a different post.

    Sybrib

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