patrick.net

Well, if we knew that's what happened, then you'd have something.
Unfortunately for you, it's all supposition.

marcus says

You think that a stranger following him, and sneaking up on him and reaching into his pocket should not be scary, and that TM should not have reacted to that.

I think GZ's observations you describe below are perfectly normal.

marcus says

And you also think GZ's assumptions about TM are perfectly normal. "He looks like he's up to no good" "these assholes always get away."

Not to worry, Bap.
Satan has the hickory and mesquite sparked up on the grill.
There's a place on that grill for the morally corrupt.
Right next to the Anthony Weiners and Warren Burgers of the world.

Bap33 says

marcus says

Yes, and those with experience out in the world know that smoking weed makes

one extremely violent and prone to psychotic behavior.

you did as predicted above ... you laugh off the facts and smirk at truth, inorder to protect the left-agenda ... Those, like you, on the left, rely on morallr curupt and drugged up people standing by and accepting the anti-Christian, anti-American, anti-Conservation of life, liberty, culture that the left agenda holds for humanity.

In which case liberals are programmed to root for the black guy, regardless of facts or circumstance.

Bellingham Bill says

but conservatives are programmed to root for the guy with the gun

(unless he's black)

Zimmermans not black, so marcus doesn't count those blows....

Call it Crazy says

Call it Crazy says

I just wonder in Marcus's world how many slams of a head to the concrete or how many punches to the face while being held down are considered acceptable before someone is allowed to take defensive matters to stop the assault???

So Marcus, what is the acceptable number?? Is it after 3 blows to the head, 5 blows, 8 blows, more???

Hey Marcus...

I'm still waiting for a number from you....

But let's all ignore the two black eyes and twisted, broken nose on zimmerman because that takes away from my PC theories.
Oh, and the bruises on martins knuckles, and no other injuries caused by fists on his person.
Yeah, sure, sounds like zimmy snuck up on martin and beat the crap out of him before shooting him.

marcus says

By the way, You might be impressed by the blood on his head in that picture. I once fell to the ground hitting my head and bled 100 times that much from a small cut (yes stitches). Head cut bleed like crazy.

I agree. Prejudice against street thieves, not blacks.
You inject "black" into the equation due to your own biases.

marcus says

"THese assholes always get away"

The more I ponder his saying that up front, the more stunned I am. Talk about extreme prejudice.

acceptable number varies with the force of each blow.
maybe 10 tiny taps are equal to one head slammed against cement.

tatupu70 says

Call it Crazy says

So Marcus, what is the acceptable number?? Is it after 3 blows to the head, 5

blows, 8 blows, more???

That's actually an interesting question. At what point does a fistfight endanger one's life? When is deadly force allowed? Does everyone who punches someone after they call his wife a whore grant their victim carte blanche to blow them away?

The problem with this is that you have no idea why zimmerman said "these assholes always get away". You assume it's because martin was black and wearing a hoodie. You have no idea what he was doing or where he was walking. He could have been zigzagging his way home like a drunk. He was loaded up on THC. He could have been cutting through peoples front and back yards, off the public pathways....He could have been mimicking the behavior patterns thieves display when casing out a house. Nobody but zimmerman knows this. And since he is unlikely to take the stand, we will never find out.

marcus says

Just how retarded does someone have to be to think, "There were burglaries here last year, therefore looking at this black teen, dressed the way urban teens do, I'm going to talk about "these assholes always get away." What the fuck ?

marcus says

and that if he had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow TM **, it
wouldn't have happened.

nope, "we" dont know this.

Bellingham Bill says

More like thug profiling. Don't want to be seen as a thug, don't dress like
one.

100% correct, and the PC police hate you for pointing it out .. you are now a thugophobe.

SoftShell says

Yeah, sure, sounds like zimmy snuck up on martin and beat the crap out of him before shooting him.

This guy is in a conversation with himself. He niether hears nor comprehends anything anyone else says.

tatupu70 says

Call it Crazy says

So Marcus, what is the acceptable number?? Is it after 3 blows to the head, 5
blows, 8 blows, more???

That's actually an interesting question. At what point does a fistfight endanger one's life? When is deadly force allowed? Does everyone who punches someone after they call his wife a whore grant their victim carte blanche to blow them away?

excellant question. Every fight (arguement, war, shoving match) will continue to esculate until one side gives up or is dead. So, I think, anytime you or I take a position of conflict and become the target of someone else ... something as simple as, "hey buddy, the line starts back here" can become a fight to the death as long as neither party refuses to give up.

It's called 'sarcasm'. Obviously above your grade level.

marcus says

SoftShell says

Yeah, sure, sounds like zimmy snuck up on martin and beat the crap out of him before shooting him.

This guy is in a conversation with himself. He niether hears nor comprehends anything anyone else says.

I'll take the odds that zimmerman also walks on any civil case. The facts and evidence are on his side.

robertoaribas says

The further odds are he loses a multi million dollar wrongful death suit, where instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt" the burden of proof will only be "preponderance of the evidence" He clearly made bad choices, and will be found responsible for TM's death, even if not guilty of murder.

I heard what you said.
I comprehend what you said.
Your problem is I don't agree with your conclusions.
So in your mind, I must be talking to myself.

Ok, if that makes you happy.

marcus says

Yeah, sure, sounds like zimmy snuck up on martin and beat the crap out of him before shooting him.

This guy is in a conversation with himself. He niether hears nor comprehends anything anyone else says.

marcus says

Bap33 says

Those, like you, on the left, rely on morallr curupt and drugged up people standing by and accepting the anti-Christian, anti-American, anti-Conservation of life, liberty, culture that the left agenda holds for humanity.

IF murdering children is what being a god fearing christian conservative stands for, then I want no part of it. I'm actually a moderate American (politically) who has too much integrity and intelligence to even be close to doing the kind of twisted thinking that leads to your conclusion about this case. Fuck me, right ?

The point was made that TM was a dopehead while we were talking about expected and accepted behavior. And YOU failed to share that TM was doped up (something you must have known and did not dispute), and now add that to the fact that you had no trouble putting the weight of acceptable behavior on the clean and sober guy. You're absurd.

And roberto is a fraud. He is the Forest Gump of PatNet ... dude has been everywhere and done everything.

Well, here is the first mention of "hunting". Here's your resident nutcase.
I guess we now have to ask apocalypsefuck if he is white or black, so marcus can determine whether he is guilty or should be set free.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

He fully expected the police to shriek SIEG HEIL when he recited his heroic epic of hunting and killing the diabolical negro

robertoaribas says

"gz had the right to stop him..." is also ridiculous. He had no such right.
TM had ever right to be as rude as he felt to him.

As to how the fight started, we are never going to know, unless some other
witness comes forward with compelling testimony. The odd are, GZ walks out of
this. Reasonable doubt is going to remain when all is done, from what we are
seeing.

correct. Would you say that TM being doped up played a roll in the verbal exchange and the actions taken by TM?

Bap33 says

So, I think, anytime you or I take a position of conflict and become the target
of someone else ... something as simple as, "hey buddy, the line starts back
here" can become a fight to the death as long as neither party refuses to give
up.

And that's why we have laws to prevent things from getting that far. Or used to, anyway.

tatupu70 says

Bap33 says

So, I think, anytime you or I take a position of conflict and become the target
of someone else ... something as simple as, "hey buddy, the line starts back
here" can become a fight to the death as long as neither party refuses to give
up.

And that's why we have laws to prevent things from getting that far. Or used to, anyway.

laws prevent nothing.

Thank God most people are reasonable and do not ignore the hard facts of a case.

HLN Poll
Zimmerman Trial | See all 138 items
Do you think Zimmerman will be acquitted?
8:07 PM EDT, Fri June 28, 2013
72% Yes
28% No

http://www.hlntv.com/poll/2013/06/28/point-do-you-think-zimmerman-will-walk

marcus says

SoftShell says

Yeah, sure, sounds like zimmy snuck up on martin and beat the crap out of him before shooting him.

This guy is in a conversation with himself. He niether hears nor comprehends anything anyone else says.

So if that red line is correct, what is martin doing walking through peoples back yards when the public sidewalks are a stone's throw away??

Call it Crazy says

marcus says

So if you're a black man, and this strange guy follows you, and catches up to you and reaches in to his pocket, in the same way he would reach to get his gun, you're not going to freak out ?

I don't think it went just like that....

Bap33 says

add that to the fact that you had no trouble putting the weight of acceptable behavior on the clean and sober guy

Oh you mean the guy with the gun ? THe one who used it unnecessarily?

By the way. THC in blood does not mean TM was high.

Also, newsflash, GZ took prescription drugs that many would consider more dangerous and more hardcore than weed. He took speed in the form of aderal and ritalin for his ADHD.

Side effect of these drugs (amphetamines) include irritability, hyperactivity and personality changes. Maybe it was Zimmerman's drug use that caused him to ignore police request, and confront TM, assuming TM was an "asshole that was getting away,"while carrying a loaded gun.

SoftShell says

So if that red line is correct, what is martin doing walking through peoples back yards when the public sidewalks are a stone's throw away??

It looks like that's the way the complex is designed. Public sidewalks go through (between) buildings.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/story?id=19598422

Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why

". If jurors believe Zimmerman followed Martin, maybe even racially profiled him and initiated the altercation, can Zimmerman still legally claim he needed to defend himself and walk free? Yes."

marcus says

caused him to ignore police request,

nothing of this sort happened. ever. a 911 operator aint "police".

the 911 call by GZ was made BEFORE any race was known ... incase that matters to marcus.
the illegal and excessive drug abuse by TM happened before the race was known.
Since TM had no job, how did he pay for drugs, skittles, and tea?
Calling thieves assholes is not a crime. Thinking a person lurkling in the shadows, in the dark, in the rain, might be a thief, and therefor an asshole, is understandable and not a crime. Socking a dude is a crime. Socking an armed man who is questioning your reason for lurking, dresing, and acting like the criminal element in the area is a crime, and stupid. Defending yourself against such an attacker is required for survival. Good people standing silent is all evil needs to prevail. Right? GZ was doing the right thing as a good person. He never would have been arrested if not for the games played by mass media. GZ commited no crime. When will Spike Lee get arrested? Or the dude that edited the tapes to sound racist? I know, I know, it's all ok with the lefties as long as the dope keeps getting smoked and F-en crackers stand around and take it, like they are supposed to.

Bap33 says

nothing of this sort happened. ever. a 911 operator aint "police"

Sometimes it's a police dispatcher, that one is patched through to.

Bap33 says

the 911 call by GZ was made BEFORE any race was known ... incase that matters to marcus

Then you haven't listened to it. In the same conversation where he says these asholes always get away, GZ said he looks black.

Bap33 says

Calling thieves assholes is not a crime

Even calling random citizens assholes (implying criminal assholes) when there isn't even a medium probability that they are criminal is not a crime either. But it gives insight into the level of culpability that I hold GZ to.
Bap33 says

acting like the criminal element

Back to ignore for you, fucking moron. By your idiocy half of teenage boys out there are acting like the criminal element. You're a sad small litttle man Bap. Racist twit.

The tragic thing about the case is how many people jumped to conclusions before they knew the facts. Many conservative commentators claimed early on that Zimmerman had acted improperly (Mona Charen, Rich Lowry, Heather Mac Donald, Robert VerBruggen, and Gregory Kane).

Comments by President Obama, Al Sharpton, and others surely stirred up the racial aspects of the case and appear to have generated many case across the country where blacks attacked whites to avenge Trayvon Martin (e.g.,Gainesville, Florida; Oak Park, Illinois; Mobile, Alabama; Toledo, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Michigan; and Norfolk, Virginia).

It is a case that prosecutors should never have brought, but they let politics influence their decision.

Next, it will be the defense’s turn to present their case. But, for all practical purposes, the Zimmerman trial is already over.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/07/05/zimmerman-trial-is-already-over/#ixzz2YSnkX123

martin's path, a couple posts above this one, in red, is not on the public pathways. It's in people's backyards.

marcus says

SoftShell says

So if that red line is correct, what is martin doing walking through peoples back yards when the public sidewalks are a stone's throw away??

It looks like that's the way the complex is designed. Public sidewalks go through (between) buildings.

SoftShell says

is not on the public pathways.

Incorrect. Those are common area walkways. This is a typical layout for cookie cutter apartment complexes. By your own logic, Zimmerman was also "not on public pathways". If you notice, there are no sidewalks on the streets but only driveway access.

You dumb shit. Do I have to argue both sides due to your incompetence?

Here is a link from a forensic audio expert that seems to enhance your case.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/BpH8M6tATU4

He almost had me to the point where I was considering changing my mind, until he revealed he extracted all this from the "Mother Earth" liberal leftest wing-nut website. That in and of itself invalidated most of the evidence he presented.

He tries to entice the listener to compare a calm zimmerman voice in the 911 call, versus someone being pummeled to death, expecting you to conclude that the screams cannot possibly be zimmerman since they don't sound the same. Now who the hell sounds the same in those two different scenarios?

I also like the chaser he added "these assholes always get away". He does not quote any of the other comments that would tend to exonerate zimmerman, such as his observation that martin was acting suspicious. He plays only the statement that would tend to convict zimmerman if taken by itself.

This idiot blew his professional integrity in this youtube clip.

marcus says

SoftShell says

So if that red line is correct, what is martin doing walking through peoples back yards when the public sidewalks are a stone's throw away??

It looks like that's the way the complex is designed. Public sidewalks go through (between) buildings.

So are you saying that the grassy area between point 1 and 3, where the red line is and which appears to be the backyards of the people living there, is a public pathway?

Philistine says

SoftShell says

is not on the public pathways.

Incorrect. Those are common area walkways. This is a typical layout for cookie cutter apartment complexes. By your own logic, Zimmerman was also "not on public pathways". If you notice, there are no sidewalks on the streets but only driveway access.

seems like zimmerman is walking on the "concrete" public pathway between points 1 and 3, while martin is walking suspiciously close to peoples back doors on the grass between points 1 and 3. By the original location of zimmerman's truck, this would be where he first noticed martin in the dark and rain. Why would martin walk so close to people's backdoors in the wet and cold grass, instead of walking on the cement public pathway? That sure looks suspicious to me, be it a 60yr old white dude or anyone else.

The more I look at martin's path, the more suspicious it becomes. He could be looking into people's back porches to see if there is anything to steal. Who walks in wet cold grass in february in the dark and rain, instead of a public concrete sidewalk only 20 feet away??

SoftShell says

So are you saying

You're being disingenuous. There are paved walkways that go between the buildings in the "backyard" areas. Not sure what your point is, but you should just come out and say it.

Look at the map above.
Where do you see a 'paved walkway' between points 1 and 3?

Philistine says

SoftShell says

So are you saying

You're being disingenuous. There are paved walkways that go between the buildings in the "backyard" areas. Not sure what your point is, but you should just come out and say it.

The paved walkway between points 1 and 3 starts halfway between these points, but martins path is not on the walkway between these points. It's suspiciously close to people's backdoors and porches.