patrick.net

IDDQD says

You forgetting a 800 lbs gorilla in the room: adopting a dog (driving a car, flying an airplane) are not rights per US Constitution. Owning guns is. Any analogy that tries to omit this fact will be lacking.

No, its not. You are not part of any militia defending yourself against the federal government.

CaptainShuddup says

Homeboy says

Try exercising your First Amendment rights by yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded room. See where that gets you.

If there was indeed a Fire nothing would happen.
If there was NOT a Fire, then you would be liable for any damage or injuries your stunt may have caused.
Look I'd be the first one to make pranks just as serious as a crime as fraud. They have the same motive, illegally gaining something through shameless self promotions.

You are missing the point by so much, that the light from the point would take 10,000 years to reach you.

Call it Crazy with a late entry:

We need to ban your hands and feet because they kill more people then rifles and shotguns.

Extra points for using "then" instead of "than".

drew_eckhardt says

NO but he was the first to use a gun to open beer bottles.

Wrong.

The Israelis have been doing that since the late 1960s. Their Galils (AK47 variants chambered in 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 NATO) have a built-in bottle opener

I meant opening beer bottles by shooting the bottle neck off.

Here are five of the dumbest I've heard.

If we're going to have gun control...

we should outlaw pencils to end misspelled words
we should outlaw cars because there are car accidents
we should outlaw silverware to end obesity
we should outlaw airplanes because of 9/11

If a crazy didn't use a gun, he'd use a rock, etc.

leo707 says

In very rare occasions they would be useful in self-defense situations

I would be interested to hear even one account of a private, law-abiding citizen who successfully defended himself against an illegal attack, in a situation not of his own making, where a 30-round magazine was necessary.

http://www.demandaplan.org/

It’s time. Join more than 750 mayors and 750,000 grassroots supporters to demand that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence.

Our efforts cannot bring back the 20 innocent children murdered in Newtown, CT -- or the 34 people murdered with guns every day in America. But we can prevent future tragedies by passing common sense legislation that will:

Require a criminal background check for every gun sold in America
Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
Make gun trafficking a federal crime, including real penalties for “straw purchasers”

Homeboy says

leo707 says

In very rare occasions they would be useful in self-defense situations

I would be interested to hear even one account of a private, law-abiding citizen who successfully defended himself against an illegal attack, in a situation not of his own making, where a 30-round magazine was necessary.

A while ago there was a talk on the radio about this pregnant woman who shot the rapist who broke into her house and tried to rape her.

Of course it was on NPR so they were having a usual snobbish philosophical debate if she should go to jail or not. Either way she was found right in her actions.

FortWayne says

Two years ago there was a talk on the radio about this pregnant woman who shot the rapist who broke into her house and tried to rape her.

She used a shotgun, not nothing with a more than 10 round clip.

http://www.parents.com/blogs/parents-news-now/2012/01/06/safety/oklahoma-mom-shoots-kills-intruder-after-911-operator-gives-ok/

Homeboy says

leo707 says

In very rare occasions they would be useful in self-defense situations

I would be interested to hear even one account of a private, law-abiding citizen who successfully defended himself against an illegal attack, in a situation not of his own making, where a 30-round magazine was necessary.

Well, the real question is not 30 rounds but 11+ because that is the limit of the ban.

You would be hard pressed to find someone how needed more than 10 rounds.

This guy:
http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com/2009/07/retired-marine-thwarts-robbery-felony.html
Required seven shots to fend of two assailants who had guns on him. I dunno, maybe if there were three he would have needed more than 10 rounds...

And here is a guy that fired 5 times to save a cop being attacked:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/02/armed-citizen-saves-cop-in_114058863533452150.html

I have also heard of people getting in shootouts when their shop is robbed and while they fend off their attackers they fire 11+ rounds, but it is with multiple revolvers, etc. Sorry, no links though.

Oh, here is one where a guy goes through several high capacity magazines:
http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html

Interesting thing from this story is that he fired 105 shots, most of which were meant not to kill, but to put his assailants under cover until the police arrived. If he had been working with less ammo he probably would have had to shoot to kill.

IDDQD says

leo707 says

She used a shotgun, not nothing with a more than 10 round clip.

You do realize, that every 12ga shotgun shell with 00 buckshot holds from up to 18 "bullets", right? Shooting someone with just one shell at close range is roughly equivalent of pumping full double-stack pistol magazine into him and then some.

Are you telling me that you think a single 00 ball is = to a single 9mm hollow point? .357? Aside from the fact that 18 is on the high-end for 00 shot; the standard is 9 balls right? Also, for home defense #1 shot is better (hint: more bullets, no over penetration).

Anyway, I believe that legally one shotgun shell = one bullet for magazine caps. Feel free to "cheat" that system all you want and load up on that 00 buckshot. Hell, maybe I will load my .357 with bird shot and multiply the number of bullets it holds by an order of magnitude.

http://www.demandaplan.org/

Sign this petition, help create policy and show the NRA what leadership is.

FortWayne says

Shotgun is the best weapon for home defense, in closed space like a house you just need to point it in the right direction.

Yep, and it does not shoot through walls too much either (depending on the load).

"if they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Barack Hussein Obama.

The 2nd amendment was written for a reason. You got a problem with it? Fine, that's why there are 2 clear ways to amend the constitution. Go ahead and get that level of support for your cause and do something about it. The burden is on the liberals to garner support/justification. Not those that understand the logic behind the 2nd amendment.

IDDQD says

I think they will be roughly equivalent in close quarter defense situation.

Even between the .357 and 9mm there is a difference in stopping power of close to 10ish%. Full metal jacket and simi-wadcutters can get significantly lower 1 shot stops than hollow points.

Kind of a fun table to checkout:
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0

IDDQD says

I've seen it many times. It's interesting, but doesn't matter. A guy who received 1 blast of 12ga loaded with 00 buckshot from typical legal self-defense distance will be as dead as one who got full mag from 9mm P226. So for this particular practical purpose 1 shell = 1 mag.

Well......He would also be just as dead from 1 .357 JHP. So...

Also, the difference is that you are not going to shoot and kill 6 different people with 1 shot gun shell.

leo707 says

Well, the real question is not 30 rounds but 11+ because that is the limit of the ban.

No, you said there were occasions where a high-capacity magazine would be useful for self defense. It became the question when you brought it up.

leo707 says

This guy:
http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com/2009/07/retired-marine-thwarts-robbery-felony.html
Required seven shots to fend of two assailants who had guns on him. I dunno, maybe if there were three he would have needed more than 10 rounds...

I asked for an actual account, not a "maybe".

And here is a guy that fired 5 times to save a cop being attacked:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/02/armed-citizen-saves-cop-in_114058863533452150.html

So why would he need a 30-round magazine, and how is that self-defense?

I have also heard of people getting in shootouts when their shop is robbed and while they fend off their attackers they fire 11+ rounds, but it is with multiple revolvers, etc. Sorry, no links though.

Sorry, links are required.
leo707 says

Oh, here is one where a guy goes through several high capacity magazines:
http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html

Interesting thing from this story is that he fired 105 shots, most of which were meant not to kill, but to put his assailants under cover until the police arrived. If he had been working with less ammo he probably would have had to shoot to kill.

O.K., but I asked if anyone has "successfully defended himself against an illegal attack, in a situation not of his own making, where a 30-round magazine was necessary." This man was not attacked. His store was being robbed, but he was not in the store. Rather than letting the police do their job, he WENT to the store to fight the robbers. Clearly a situation of his own making.

FortWayne says

A while ago there was a talk on the radio about this pregnant woman who shot the rapist who broke into her house and tried to rape her.

Of course it was on NPR so they were having a usual snobbish philosophical debate if she should go to jail or not. Either way she was found right in her actions.

Surely she didn't need a 30-round clip for that?

AIS, you are awesome.