How's that Change working for you Young People?
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2012 Feb 9, 4:15am 46,654 views 87 comments
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Patrick
2012 Feb 10, 7:45am
He did nothing to address the huge costs of illegal aliens
But what about the GIGANTIC costs of lowering the capital gains tax to 15% while productive people have to pay 35%?
That cost alone is so much larger than the cost of illegal aliens that it's comic. Like at least a trillion dollars, with no benefit at all to investment. No one ever skipped a good investment because of their marginal tax rate.
The key is this: you don't feel personally threatened by the very rich avoiding taxes, you feel threatened by illegal aliens.
And yet the tax evasion by the rich is costing you much much more.
Dan8267
2012 Feb 10, 9:06am
Home prices not values have been falling
Just curious--how do you make a distinction?
How do you come up with a number for the "value"?
The price of my belly button lint is $26 million. However, I'll let you pay only 10% down and the rest on a 30-year mortgage at 5%. If value and price are synonymous to you, this is a really good deal.
As for how I come up with a number, I'm a fan of the Case-Shiller Index.
tatupu70
2012 Feb 10, 11:10am
The price of my belly button lint is $26 million. However, I'll let you pay only 10% down and the rest on a 30-year mortgage at 5%. If value and price are synonymous to you, this is a really good deal.
As for how I come up with a number, I'm a fan of the Case-Shiller Index
I'll pass on the belly button lint.
The Case Shiller is a nice overview of housing prices in general, but how in the world can you use it to determine the "value" of an individual house?
The value of a home is what people are willing to pay for it.
So, selling price, not asking price.
It's certainly possible for homes to be over valued though. That's still the case in many parts of the world.
But lots of things are over valued.
Patrick
2012 Feb 11, 3:27am
The value of a home is what people are willing to pay for it.
That's not true!
Most people are willing to pay whatever the banks are willing to lend them. So prices are determined by lending.
Whether that price is fair or not depends on the cost of your alternative, renting. How much it would cost you to rent the same thing for the same time period determines the fair vlue. Not lending.
Dan8267
2012 Feb 11, 4:53am
I'll pass on the belly button lint.
Just remember, you're passing on that belly button lint for the exact same reason people are passing on houses. The price is greater than the value.
but how in the world can you use it to determine the "value" of an individual house?
Detailed knowledge of the housing market, the neighborhood, competing houses, the cost of rent, historical sales that pre-date the bubble. There's no single formula to use, you just got to learn your local market or get suckered.
I'd recommend checking the tax appraisal website of your county. You'll have to Google it, since every county has a different site. If you are lucky, the tax appraisal site will allow you to type in an address and get the entire sales history. That helps a lot for determining value.
It's amazing how prices doubled and tripled during the boom. I'd say the fair market price is what the house sold for in the 1990s. You may have to do a bit of extrapolating by comparing sales of other houses around that time if you don't have a sale in the 1990s.
In my opinion, the fair market price for most housing in south-east Florida (Miami to West Palm Beach) is about 1997 prices. I can't say what's fair market for other regions because I don't have local knowledge, and that's critical.
Here's a concrete example. I rented a house back in 2008-2010. The owner, a retiree, was trying to sell it for $385,000 back in 2007. He couldn't, so he rented it for two years to me at $1600/month. Generally, the rule of thumb is 100x rent is sales price, but that varies a bit depending on numerous things. So you might estimate the fair sales price to be $160,000.
Given that it was a 1970s house, 2 bed, 2 bath, I'd have say the fair sales price is a bit less than $100/sq.ft., but he ended up selling to to the daughter of the person who lived next door. She was willing to pay a bit of a premium to live next to her mother.
Here's the vital info:
Personally, I think she overpaid, but at least she didn't pay the ridiculous 2007 price. I'd say the real value of the house is $140,000
tatupu70
2012 Feb 11, 8:19am
Just remember, you're passing on that belly button lint for the exact same reason people are passing on houses.
Uh, OK. Not sure what that analogy is trying to say. People don't buy things that they think are overpriced? Wow--thanks for that pearl of wisdom.
I'd say the fair market price is what the house sold for in the 1990s.
I have to disagree with that. Fair market price is whatever anyone (really 1 person) is willing to pay right now. That's pretty much the definition of market price. Just because you wouldn't pay it, doesn't mean it's not the market price.
I do agree with Patrick that rental parity is a good way to avoid overpaying though. You just have to make sure you account for all the costs and savings in the calculation--Bill does a good job with his spreadsheet. It's a little tricky to estimate the present value of the savings when the house is paid off. Inflation, life span, etc.
Dan8267
2012 Feb 11, 11:57am
Market price is whatever the greatest fool is willing and able to pay. Fair market price is what informed buyers who are not under pressure can and will pay.
tatupu70
2012 Feb 11, 12:05pm
Market price is whatever the greatest fool is willing and able to pay. Fair market price is what informed buyers who are not under pressure can and will pay.
The house sells to the greatest fool though... Fair market in your sense is an imaginary number.
Dan8267
2012 Feb 11, 12:51pm
The house sells to the greatest fool though..
Not if there are a plethora of houses and few fools left. The fool can only buy one house.
Sometimes when I'm in a foul mood I always enjoy reading the comments in the political section- especially those made on behalf of right-leaning folks, and always get a good hearty chuckle. You can't write comedy as good as this.
elliemae
2012 Mar 8, 6:45am
It's YOUR decision if you want to change how you feel!
Not really - I feel that you're trolling & that your attempt has failed. FYI, anyone can lose weight if they starve themselves.
Dan8267
2012 Mar 8, 8:43am
Market price is whatever the greatest fool is willing and able to pay. Fair market price is what informed buyers who are not under pressure can and will pay.
Um, what's the logic behind someone "disliking" the above comment?
unstoppable
2012 Mar 8, 8:59am
Anyone who wines about Obama, bailing out/bankrupting Chrysler and GM. Should back up and remind themselves about the crap show that Paulson and Bush did with AIG. Flat out thievery, they didn't bankrupt the company, so all the executives still got their ill gotten bonuses, and Goldman and a bunch of foreign banks got 100 cents on the dollar for their loads of craptacular credit default swaps. I and my grandchildren just got the bill.
The whole euro/Greece bailout is a huge fiasco, but in allot of ways it's working out OK. If you lend money or a buy a financial product from a bunch of numnutz's you deserve to get pennys back on the dollar. It's called capitalism and a free market. The GOP go on and on about it, and they make me play by those rules but when it comes to their .1% buddies it's all bailouts, no bid contracts, and juicy earmarks.
TMAC54
2012 Mar 11, 6:11am
How fast we forget
What will Obama's 2012 campaign slogan read ?
CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN - AGAIN ?
OBAMA has taken trillions from the coffers to fix real estate prices.
Is there a soul alive that ever believed that might be accomplished ?
Anyone who wines about Obama, bailing out/bankrupting Chrysler and GM. Should back up and remind themselves about the crap show that Paulson and Bush did with AIG. Flat out thievery,
AIG is a fairly large insurance company.. which includes insurance on good chunk of the small and large transportation carriers that goes on every day.
If a company has no insurance coverage, because AIG went under, they could not do basic day to day business like making timely deliveries.
Basic food and durable goods supply chain would halt.
Other professions like doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc etc would not be able to perform their services to consumers because they had no insurance coverage... imagine what the results would be if AIG went under.
Did the light bulb go on yet ? Yes, too big to fail.
If a company has no insurance coverage, because AIG went under, they could not do basic day to day business like making timely deliveries.
Large corporations don't poof disappear. They go into bankruptcy court. The business continues to operate while the courts sort it out. If they are truly too big to fail and cannot operate under a bankruptcy court then they should be nationalized and dismantled, not given an endless supply of taxpayer money. AIG should be a bad memory by now. Any company too big to fail is too big period. Obama hasn't done anything to fix the problem, if anything the too big to fail players have gotten bigger.
freak80
2012 Mar 12, 12:18am
Did the light bulb go on yet ? Yes, too big to fail.
So you're admitting that we need "socialism"?
Too big to fail = socialism
Too big to fail = corporate welfare
I have no particular fetish for "socialism." But I can't stand it when the far right complains about "socialism" but has no problem with bailouts.
TPB
2012 Mar 12, 12:26am
How fast we forget
What will Obama's 2012 campaign slogan read ?
Change Part 2, this time it's for reals.
Other professions like doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc etc would not be able to perform their services to consumers because they had no insurance coverage... imagine what the results would be if AIG went under.
We might just find out, we don't actually need all of this insurance.
What ever happened to be bonded?
tatupu70
2012 Mar 12, 10:22pm
TMAC-
Here's what I found on the site you referenced:
The State of the Bailout
OUTFLOWS: $601 billion This includes money that has actually been spent, invested, or loaned.
INFLOWS: $357 billion Money returned and paid to Treasury as interest, dividends, fees or to repurchase their stock warrants.
So, where exactly is the $8.5 Trillion?
freak80
2012 Mar 12, 10:56pm
So, where exactly is the $8.5 Trillion?
In the parallel universe of far right propaganda.
TPB
2012 Mar 13, 12:10am
Obabama's approval rating is 41%. Anyone care to run that though the Spin Cycle?
TPB
2012 Mar 13, 12:16am
The Real Gas crisis, for MILIONS of poor Americans, is going to be Obama and this Democrats own undoing.
These poor saps are going to get the picture, that the California Liberals are NOT like them, and the poor people in America and their plight, are NOT their priority. The poor want more than a monthly Walefare check. They want stability, a steady job, affordable energy prices, and low inflation. All of that other Liberals crack smoke dreaming bullshit, doesn't mean dick all to the poor ASSHOLES that the Liberals will be looking across the pews wondering will they vote for them.
Mittler is going to take you to school and show you how it's done.
Promising a better economy, not promising free hotdogs for everyone on Bingo Tuesday. But tangible results poor people can believe in.
Romney will win, even if he put this on his tour bus.
"Mittler 2012, because the other Asshole has got to go"
TMAC54
2012 Mar 13, 12:22am
So, where exactly is the $8.5 Trillion?
Without any real time researching, you can find trillions. Gubmint isn't exactly advertising ALL their tricks. I consider low interest rates and money printing as stimulus or bailout assistance.
Did any of the programs cure the principal problem ?
http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/2011/12/bailout-list-some-banks-got-over-2-trillion/
freak80
2012 Mar 13, 12:29am
Obabama's approval rating is 41%. Anyone care to run that though the Spin Cycle?
Not suprising. Will Mitt "Yes Man" Romney do a better job?
TPB
2012 Mar 13, 12:48am
Not suprising. Will Mitt "Yes Man" Romney do a better job?
It's not about Better anymore in this petty tit for tat politics era.
Was Obama better than Bush?
Can Batman beat up Superman?
Who makes a prettier Jesus Christ, Ted Neeley or Robert Powell?
If you wasted time answering any of these questions, you should have your voting rights revoked.
freak80
2012 Mar 13, 12:57am
It's not about Better anymore in this petty tit for tat politics era.
Don't we want the best possible candidate for the job? I have no particular fetish for Obama, but I don't know if Romney will be all that much better. I think he'll just do the bidding of Big Business, w/o even thinking. Not that Obama has stood up to Big Business either.
tatupu70
2012 Mar 13, 1:07am
I consider low interest rates and money printing as stimulus or bailout assistance.
So, the answer is you pulled that number out of your ass then, huh?
Money printing is not a bailout. When the money is actually GIVEN out to an entity, then that is a bailout. And as the website YOU provided the link to shows, the money that was actually given out is nowhere near the ridiculous amount you keep stating.
The Fed lowers the Fed funds rate during every recession. This is nothing new. They buy treasuries during every recession. It's old hat. That is not a bailout. It is SOP for fighting a recession.
Patrick
2012 Mar 13, 1:37am
The Fed lowers the Fed funds rate during every recession. This is nothing new. They buy treasuries during every recession.
But they never bought private debt before. Now they have -- mortgage backed bonds.
tatupu70
2012 Mar 13, 1:56am
The Fed lowers the Fed funds rate during every recession. This is nothing new. They buy treasuries during every recession.
But they never bought private debt before. Now they have -- mortgage backed bonds.
Agreed--that qualifies as part of the bailout in my mind. There was actually money paid out.
leo707
2012 Mar 13, 2:05am
It's not about Better anymore in this petty tit for tat politics era.
Well, at least you are admitting that petty vengeance is more important to you than fixing our collective problems.
Can Batman beat up Superman?
I don't quote me on this, but I believe that Batman owns a pair of kryptonite-brass-knuckles and once used them to beat-up Superman.
TPB
2012 Mar 13, 3:22am
Well, at least you are admitting that petty vengeance is more important to you than fixing our collective problems.
Oh and you want Me, to believe Obama can fix our problems? What he's just been waiting for the right fucking moment to do all of the shit he made folks like you believe he even can, let alone has gumption to do so, in the first place.
In your mind, Obama is this great Liberal leader, that has lead this country to greatness, and Glen Beck the most revered person in the Universe has polluted my perception of Obama, that if it weren't for him and Rush Limbaugh, then Obama would have an approval rating of 100%. Oh and I'm racist is the back up plan, just in case all other sensible logic fails.
Because the media is in the tank for Obama.
Yep. And the largest media networks are right-leaning. So what media are we talking about?
leo707
2012 Mar 13, 4:13am
Because the media is in the tank for Obama.
Yep. And the largest media networks are right-leaning. So what media are we talking about?
Air America, oh wait...
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http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/09/news/economy/jobs_young_adults/index.htm?iid=HP_LN
I had my own Van and about $2500 worth of Flooring tools, and was a subcontractor for 6 different interior decorators, by the time I was 19. I was one of the first down here, in south Florida to work as a free agent(if you will), other installers depending on one shop, Dolphin Carpet, Carpet Expo ect. for their day to day work. I used to sit home and take calls from decorators and and a Postman that sold carpet and tile to people in his Century Village route.
I was full of Piss and Vinegar, as the old people used to say about me. When carpet was slow, you find me at the FP&L pay station selling knock off Rolexes or knock off designer perfume to inner city patrons on their way to pay their bill. One thing for sure, you weren't going to find me behind a counter, or sitting in a chair waiting to be seen by the HR administrator, I was paving my own way. I knew where corporate America was heading, and what was in store for those dependent on the Corporate payroll.
I was raised with the emphasis on the ability to adapt and shift gears, and for god sakes don't be at the mercy of the company store ever. When life throws you a curve ball when you're playing football, then you better hit a home run or you will get tackled.
Somewhere along the way, that sense of independence and innovation got replaced with people longing to fit in the corporasphere, and those that are trying to be self starters. Their ideas are to play follow the leader. School for the last several decade has drilled individuality out of the kids. Oh it's fine as long as we're talking about fashion and disruptive behavior, that's encouraged. But the focus has gone from preparing kids for the future, what ever that future may be, and giving the kids the tools they'll need to get by, to a politicized next stage qualifier.
You're either headed to College and will chose a career in publicly traded company and are told you'll make high end 6 figure salaries right out of college. Hell they cut out the pay your dues part, these kids were told they are on the fast track. That's if they can afford an education that cost as much as the average High end sports luxury car in Monaco. The other group is destined to destitution and welfare, for the women, and the men folk are headed to prisons profit centers.
Let's take a moment of silence and mourn for the lost of the best system in the world and death of the American innovative entrepreneurial spirit, regardless of class, race, age, weight or education.
Be careful what you wish for.
You want change? You got it!