patrick.net

Bap33 says

They do not have a right to cost taxpayers a dime in doing so. Not one dime. Including police activity.

Then no protest or public gathering could be allowed in public areas including Tea Party protests, anti-abortion protests, pro-gun rights protests, etc.

Protesters, for the most part do not want the police present because police tend to intimidate protesters and infringe upon their rights. The state decides that it wants a large police presence at every protest. Are you really offended that the police are being paid with tax payer dollars to keep protesters in line? This hardly constitutes state sponsorship of the protests. If anything, it is state opposition to protests, which is the opposite of what happens when a state official uses his position to support a particular family of religions.

I believe your opposition to Occupy Wall Street is that you don't like the politics of the protesters rather than you don't like tax payer dollars being spent as the result of protests. Now come on, be honest. Isn't that what it's really about? Would you have such opposition to a Tea Party protest or an NRA rally?

Now, we can talk about the politics of OWS, but that discussion is completely irrelevant to the issue of the separation of church and state, which is also quite a tangent from the topic of this thread, whether or not Obama's birth certificate is a forgery. [Btw, the whole forgery conjecture seems a bit wacked even by Jesse Ventura standards.]

Bap33 says

If you disagree, then please find a way to force the police to wave their fees for walking around our non-profit hotrod car show events at the lake.

I'll do you one better. Let's get rid of the gestapo-like presence of police at protests. They are there to control and disperse the crowd rather than protect the people. Most injuries at protests are caused by the police. And you don't even have to be participating in the protest to be caught in the police crossfire and injured.

marcus says

It's several orders of magnitude lower than the costs to all of us that they are protesting.

I agree 100%.

I disagree with public costs from private activity. It seems like opublic impact is only supported when the mighty ACLU is ready to sue, if anything negative is done to the mess makers. If the Catholics held a month long celebration in Times Square and left poop all over the place, I bet the city would send a bill to V.C., Italy. ANd the ACLU would not make a peep.

marcus says

Uhhh Bap,...they're no more scum than you are. With the exception of those that are in it just because they were homeless and on drugs anyway ( partyyy!).

There certainly are some scumbags in the OWS crowds, but they are an unrepresentative minority.

The Tea Party is composed of a single group of likeminded individuals. The Tea Party is the vocal, minority of extreme right evangelical Republicans. They all think alike, have the same culture, and the same political agendas.

In contrast, OWS is a loose conglomeration of groups with opposing political and social beliefs, but with one common thread: they are pissed off at big banks and big corporations rigging the system and destroying the middle class.

OWS is composed of many groups including left-thinking intellectuals; simpleminded hippies; lazy, pot smoking college students with no ambitions; hard-working, college students with lots of ambitions but no jobs and massive debt; anarchists who hate all authority; leftist protest groupies (the left equivalent of Jesus freaks); fed-up, moderate, middle class parents who are scared that they will be ejected from the middle class if they have one financial emergency.

So you see, talking about OWS as if it is one political ideology is basically flawed. It's a third-order collation based on a vague understanding that big business is causing many of the most severe problems faced by the middle class.

Bap33 says

Kevin,
You do realize that your last post suggests that I should not be American because you dislike my speech - right? Do you happen to know the 1st ammendment to the US Const.? Is there a chance that you feel the rights under the US Const are not for conservatives Christians like me?

Personally, I like it when Bap makes the conservative arguments. It gives the rest of us a chance to show why social conservative philosophy is bad.

And yes, the advocation of bad ideas is protected by the First Amendment, and rightfully so. Bad ideas should be advocated by their supporters in open discussion so that they can addressed and discredited. Better to do that in a transparent, open format than to allow bad ideas to fester in people's minds.

In the software biz, we call these bad ideas "anti-patterns". It's a misnomer, they really should be called "malpatterns". The idea is that you don't just study good design patterns, you also study the bad design patterns so that you can recognize, avoid, and correct them.

It is as useful to study the wrong way things are done as it is to study the right way. You learn from other people's mistakes so that you don't repeat them.

Bap33 says

I disagree with public costs from private activity.

If you honestly believe in that philosophy, then you should be against all forms of pollution including fossil fuel burning cars, coal plants, and fracking. These private activities and private profit producers cause massively more public costs than a protest.

Bap33 says

If the Catholics held a month long celebration in Times Square and left poop all over the place, I bet the city would send a bill to V.C., Italy. ANd the ACLU would not make a peep.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm pretty anti-religion, but not even I have such a low opinion of Catholicism as to think its followers leave poop everywhere they go. Granted, the pope does shit in the woods, but he's only one man.

I'm not sure what the ACLU's stance on pooping is. It seems to be something they generally don't address, but I don't think it's part of their core mission to uphold civil liberties. Generally, public defecation isn't considered a civil liberty. It's more of a perk.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fj7oLNGsol8

Damn Catholics.

Bap33 says

I bet that limit on Prez terms is bugging you right now. It will be gone soon. You should be proud Kev, because Lord Barry has blown out the rule of law in favor of dictatorship and is well outside of the US Const ... right where you want him to be! From his birth cert to his college transcrips to Lybia to his pro-islamuslamic faith to his anti-Jew and anti-Chirstian and anti-stupid white cops position .... stand proud Kev, Lord Barry views the US Const just as you do ... a tool for the progressive left to dismantle America. Cheers!

Is that a parody of the far right, or the real thing?

wthrfrk80 says

Bap33 says

I bet that limit on Prez terms is bugging you right now. It will be gone soon. You should be proud Kev, because Lord Barry has blown out the rule of law in favor of dictatorship and is well outside of the US Const ... right where you want him to be! From his birth cert to his college transcrips to Lybia to his pro-islamuslamic faith to his anti-Jew and anti-Chirstian and anti-stupid white cops position .... stand proud Kev, Lord Barry views the US Const just as you do ... a tool for the progressive left to dismantle America. Cheers!

Is that a parody of the far right, or the real thing?

What the right says
"We're sick of those California weirdos taxing us for stuff, we know nuttin about."

What the Left hears
"Der Wichizen unt Geiden Gubem, THIEN! get on with it!"

Bap33 says

If the Catholics held a month long celebration in Times Square and left poop all over the place

I think that's called "Mardi Gras." Usually the tourist revenue from the event is more than enough to cover the cost of cleanup. And port-a-pots usually take care of the poop.

Anyone know if New Orleans sends the Vatican a bill after every Fat Tuesday celebration? Heaven knows N.O. could use the money.

@wthrfrk80, I knew someone would be paying attention!! good show!

@Dan, "it's a perk" .. that's funny shit, man. (pun intended)(kinda)

Oh, bap, I totally support the right for stupid people to say stupid shit. I'm just offering you a chance to be happier. You obviously hate freedom and liberalism, and as such I think you'd be far happier in China, where they also hate freedom and liberalism. You can't even watch porn there!

Kevin says

I think you'd be far happier in China, where they also hate freedom and liberalism. You can't even watch porn there!

Maybe not on state television. But at the internet cafe I went to in Shanghai, probably half of the computer consoles were filled with 20-something males looking at hordcore porn.

The Chinese are a lot more worried of someone finding Tank Man pictures online than they are worried about porn online.

Kevin says

I think you'd be far happier in China, where they also hate freedom and liberalism. You can't even watch porn there!

Who in the hell needs porn, when for $20 you can get a massage that concludes with most intense ejaculation you've ever experienced in your life?

Porn just might be a bigger problem, than the "Prudish Moral issue" aspect of anti porn. It cuts peoples minds off, on how to actually communicate and practice the mating rituals, that insure our species.
People are whacking off in some room, not even attempting to get out and socialize to find suited partners. Eventually its just easier to tune into Lickmyballs dot com, than it is to try to engage in meaningful or affectionate discourse with your espousal queue.

TPB says

Who in the hell needs porn, when for $20 you can get a massage that concludes with most intense ejaculation you've ever experienced in your life?

$20? Where? I'm overpaying.

TPB says

Who in the hell needs porn, when for $20 you can get a massage that concludes with most intense ejaculation you've ever experienced in your life?

Have the address?

Yeah, I don't know what the street price of a happy ending is, but I have gotten regular massages and I can tell you that a typical one-hour massage will run you between $70 and $120 around Boca Raton, FL. I can't imagine where TPB is getting his special massages for $20, but maybe I don't want to know. I imagine that it's better to have one night with a $2000 hooker than a hundred nights with a $20 hooker.

lol .... the images in the mind are far more perverted than the images on any screen, page, or canvas. The people that are anti-porn are more against the mis-treatment / abuse / belittlement aspect of the deal, I think, more than the end-user enjoyment aspect. But, I may be wrong.

This 15 yearold boy was fishing with his 60 year old Grandpa.
The Boy said, "Grandpa, I spend most of my time thinking about naked women, and wondering when and how I might get to see one."
His Grandpa said, "That's pretty normal, Sonny."
The Boy asked, "Grandpa, how old does a man have to get to finally stop thinking about naked women all the time?"
Grandpa said, "I'll let you know when and if I ever get there!"

Dan8267 says

will run you between $70 and $120 around Boca Raton, FL. I can't imagine where TPB is getting his special massages for $20

TPB says

Kevin says

I think you'd be far happier in China,

I was talking about in China, or that general direction over there somewhere. It was a quality of life statement, in perspective, we're all bent out of shape about China doesn't allow Porn, yet they get Dry Cleaning hostesses that can blow smoke rings with her junk.

TPB says

Porn just might be a bigger problem, than the "Prudish Moral issue" aspect of anti porn. It cuts peoples minds off, on how to actually communicate and practice the mating rituals, that insure our species.

Porn has been around since the beginning of man. It's just easier to access with the advent of the interwebs. And yet, somehow, we've still managed to procreate and replenish the earth. Some of us have regligions that make it a mission to do so:

Thank god he's outrageously wealthy and can afford to support all these people. In addition to the church welfare system, lower-income mormons collect on all welfare programs. LDS social services assists people in applying for ADC, Food Stamps, public housing, etc.

elliemae says

Porn has been around since the beginning of man.

Yeah but no body predicted...
"In the future, you'll use your thumbs to dispatch porn. "

Doesn't matter which part of the body it takes to dispatch porn, it's always been available. At the corner store (hustler, playboy, penthouse...), x-rated bookstores, by mail, movies, etc.

It's easier to get ahold of now, but it's always been available. Whether it's $20 for a happy ending, or $2,000 for a highpriced whore, for a price you can have anything.