patrick.net

I'm not even sure how that forum works. Am I supposed to Google the address that someone puts in? Color me dense I guess ;-)

I really think the prices have a lot of folks priced out from their comfort level, which is why demand is low.

Also it is not very informative, there isn't a enough data to help someone get interested in the property yet. Google link took me to some other lost page.

PasadenaNative says

I’m not even sure how that forum works. Am I supposed to Google the address that someone puts in? Color me dense I guess

PasadenaNative, you just have to search for the address in question in this format (or possibly others): 123 Main St 90210 (zipcode). It will bring you to a page that displays existing discussion (if any). If there isn't any, you can comment on it and you'd be the topic starter.

The bottom shows the street view, and a satellite view. It beats wasting gas to go drive by the property to see if you are even interested.

Anyway to create a patrick.net facebook functionality? plug ins ? ARe they the devil?

I agree with the comment where we need critical mass to start chatting/posting comments about a particular property.

Overall I see the vision and I think its a great idea. We have the forum, keep it running. And as the popularity grows, we should see more and more users getting interested and maybe changing their minds about publishing their opinions/facts about the listed properties.

Transparency in dealing with property sales is going to be a bit of a paradigm shift for more people, but it will happen, with time.

I will post. Just waiting for the prices in SoCal to get in line with income :)

Yes, I was thinking of setting a “default location” zip code for each user, kind of like Google maps does. Then they would see the comments in or near that zip code unless they specifically asked to see everywhere, or to change the zip code.

The area I keep an eye on covers multiple zip codes, so it would be nice to have a broader range to set as your default.

I think that having users set a location to watch would cover some of Michinaga's complaints about being overwhelmed by uninteresting properties.

Michinaga says

If you posted about properties within walking distance of the Giants’ new ballpark, for example, I’d be interested,

I do like the idea of being able to pick a "famous" location and see discussion results for everything with in a mile or so.

Correct me if I am wrong but there seems to currently be one primary use case for the property forum, and that is discussion of potential buyers of a property. This use case limits the number of people active in the forum, and that active group is less likely to share info. I am just spit-balling her but you may want to think of additional use cases to increase the active users in order to get to that critical mass. Then tweak the design/search to appeal to this broader set of users.

Other reasons to comment on a specific property:
- Vacation rental
- "Famous" or "odd" properties
- Properties near points of interest (ball park, beach, etc...)

Another think is that other than the address there are currently no points of discussion. It was nice when you had the data on the property page so that at least that could be discussed.

Perhaps also have discussions going on at a higher level where more people would be interested, like the city. Then discussion could drill down to more specifics.

Just an idea, but to get more discussion going you could redesign how the property forum works. You could have a "parent" forum, say at the city level, then simultaneous discussion at the specific property level as a kind of "child" forum.

That way you could get your critical mass users at the city level (city discussion could be interesting in its self) then this critical mass drills down to specific properties.

Here is a sloppy mockup of what it could look like:

Perhaps the purpose of the forum could be to post what deficiency/fault exists with particular properties. Buyers help each other by sharing their research and impressions - why a particular property was a no-go for them. If it caught on, it could save buyers some time. Legal issues with this idea?

Thanks for the excellent feedback! I'm especially impressed that leoj707 did a mock up of what a better version could look like.

OK, here's a task list for me:

* Explain better that you just have to search for an address to get to its page.
* Remove the "Google this address" or put it down by the photos.
* Create default zip codes for users (cookie based?) and let users see it and change it on real estate forum pages. Set it initially by what they searched for, or what they viewed, or their user profile zip code.
* Show only the real estate comments near the user's default zip code unless they ask for to see all of them.
* Put all the collected data on the property pages again. Let people enter data again.
* Create a “parent” forum at the city level, then simultaneous discussion at the specific property level as “child” forums.
* Allow people to comment using their Facebook ids if they want, so they don't have to register.

That's probably a couple weeks of work. One huge issue is that I crashed my database repeatedly with all the data collection and queries going on. That's why I removed the lists of property for sale or for rent, and the "nearby rents" feature. Ultimately I will have to pay for better hardware if I want those features back. So I must figure out a revenue model better than donations. Google ads pay pathetically poorly on my site because so few people click them. Maybe ads on the calculator results would be profitable, since it's a very highly targeted at: "potential buyer in zip code and price range". Realtors would probably pay well for such targeted ads, but then I'd be cooperating with the devil...

Even if I could get the attention of venture capitalists, they would probably just push me into becoming part of the real estate system that I hate.

Edward1 says

Legal issues with this idea?

The truth is always OK. So you can say whatever you want that is a fact, or your opinion.

There could be a legal problem if people deliberately lied about a property to discourage competing bidders though.

rob8024 says

you need an app where people can write things about the place as they are checking it out in an open house

Yes, I dream of some iPhone/Android app that will know where you are via GPS and easily let you post pictures, opinion, maybe some short audio comments about that address. I don't know much about mobile app development yet, but I'm learning.

The truth is always OK. So you can say whatever you want that is a fact, or your opinion.

Patrick,

We have a guy here in DC with a pretty good web site for house-searching:

http://www.franklymls.com/

It has become popular to the point that all local blogs and forums link to listings exclusively on it rather than any other listing site.

Not promoting the site or the agent, but it's a good example of something that's widely used and has a comment section for each listing. Not too many comments show up though, and many are blocked per the seller's request (this has become much more common over the past few years as more people use the site). I guess people only want to report negative things about a house; things that may be hidden, deceptive, problematic with getting a viewing/accessing, etc. Almost anybody that thinks there's a good hidden quality to a house listed or that it's a great deal will keep that to themselves and their real estate circle/clientele.

Mostly I come here for confirmation (bias?) that house prices where I live and work (Menlo Park, CA) are ridiculously over-priced. Otherwise I would get too depressed that two parents with PhDs and good jobs using those degrees can't really make ends meet if they want to commute without a car. When my toddler goes outside to explore the 'yard' it really means finding dead bees on the concrete slab behind our fourplex and every time I have to go to safeway to get quarters in the middle of the night to do laundry I really want to move back to the midwest. The fact of the matter is that I am an example of the demand for housing here and I just can't afford it on what would be two good salaries anywhere else in the world.

I have a similar suggestions to others: I know the data is lumped by zip, but perhaps what you need is the ability to lump zips into regions on a master page that would notify you when new comments about property in the region are posted. I am in favor of truth in the postings and I might mention that I am interested in a place online but I would want some requirement that other posters are not RE agents for the place or at least that disclosure is upfront. Regions could develop critical mass and then subsequently subdivide as necessary. Zips are much harder to navigate for non-natives or others browsing because I have no idea which zips include which towns, for instance.

I think you need to have a more dynamic site, with photos, and a map. You're competing with the likes of Trulia whether you have a better feature or not. Really a site like Trulia with a comment section on listings would kill any kind of forum.

You could try out a content management system, like Drupal.

rbtivo says

Zips are much harder to navigate for non-natives or others browsing because I have no idea which zips include which towns, for instance.

OK, I'll make it a default city instead of a default zip.

I do have photos and a map, from Google! They are at the bottom of each property page.

Maybe people would upload photos of property if I made it easier.

rbtivo says

Zips are much harder to navigate for non-natives or others browsing because I have no idea which zips include which towns, for instance.

Useful link:
maps.huge.info/zip.htm

I can only speak for myself, but the prices in South Florida are so ridiculous that I just don't even look. So there's little incentive to discuss a specific property. Perhaps as house prices continue to plummet, it will be worth taking the time to look at properties again.

Unfortunately, the fed gvt's attempt to trick buyers into overpaying have delayed the recovery of price sanity, but now that the gvt can't "stimulate" the housing market anymore, I expect the house prices will plunge at a faster rate to make up for the lost time. Ironically, if the fed gvt had not tried to pursaude people to buy houses in 2010, the prices would have fallen (based on Case-Shiller trend) to where I would have bought a house.

When I do a search on 'Seattle' I don't get anything. When I search for a specific Seattle zip '98116' I get 99 addresses and a google map but no listings. And the map is not for zip 98116.

Patrick, try using the forum as if you were looking for property yourself and you'll see the difficulties.

The search on Seattle shows every post that mentions Seattle, most of which are not about any specific address, but just happen to mention Seattle. The specific address posts get buried unless you click "sort by relevance instead". The default sorting is by date.

Yes, the listings are missing. I had a big database problem so I had to remove them for now.

I will make a "Seattle Real Estate" page that should be what you're looking for. In fact, I plan to do that for every city in the US. It will probably take me a week to get that going.

The map that shows up when you search for 98116 is definitely in 98116 according to http://maps.huge.info/zip.htm mentioned above. It's just that the map is zoomed in a bit too much.

@Patrick

>The truth is always OK. So you can say whatever you want that is a fact, or your opinion.

This probably doesn't stop people from sending you hate mail!

klarek says

rbtivo says

Zips are much harder to navigate for non-natives or others browsing because I have no idea which zips include which towns, for instance.

Useful link:
maps.huge.info/zip.htm

Excellent. For many years, a google search for "zip code map" only turned up companies that wanted to sell you some arcane paper-based marketing tool called. you guessed it, a zip code map.

test

Don't see "property forum" at the top. Got plenty of great property stories to share.

Site needs to be simplified, but the emailed news links are great!

American in Japan says

@Patrick

>The truth is always OK. So you can say whatever you want that is a fact, or your opinion.

This probably doesn’t stop people from sending you hate mail!

Yup, I get hate mail. But I figure hate mail is a sign that I'm saying things that need to be said.

danny_s_rodrigues says

Don’t see “property forum” at the top. Got plenty of great property stories to share.

Now it's "Real Estate Forum". People seem to understand that better, and "real estate" has better search engine ranking.

Michinaga says

Patrick, I realize that you’re from California, but the California-centrism of this board can be a little off-putting on an internet site visible to the entire world. Fully 88% (44 of 50) of the properties listed on the first five pages of the Real Estate Forum are in California, and every single one of the first 20 pages of that forum is at least half California listings.

While I live in CA, I am very interested in real estate in other parts of the country. WHat is exciting to me is that this site now has info on properties all over thr country. You are right that it is mostly CA, but I think that is an artifact that is likely to fade now that you can search and comment much more broadly than when site first started. I was thrilled recently to see some properties TX on the first page. I think the CA-entricism will fade quickly.

Welcome Michinaga!

leoj707 says

Just an idea, but to get more discussion going you could redesign how the property forum works. You could have a “parent” forum, say at the city level, then simultaneous discussion at the specific property level as a kind of “child” forum.
That way you could get your critical mass users at the city level (city discussion could be interesting in its self) then this critical mass drills down to specific properties.
Here is a sloppy mockup of what it could look like:

Cute Ganesha

Likey, likey! My own real estate dash board!!!!!!!

rbtivo says

Mostly I come here for confirmation (bias?) that house prices where I live and work (Menlo Park, CA) are ridiculously over-priced. Otherwise I would get too depressed that two parents with PhDs and good jobs using those degrees can’t really make ends meet if they want to commute without a car. When my toddler goes outside to explore the ‘yard’ it really means finding dead bees on the concrete slab behind our fourplex and every time I have to go to safeway to get quarters in the middle of the night to do laundry I really want to move back to the midwest. The fact of the matter is that I am an example of the demand for housing here and I just can’t afford it on what would be two good salaries anywhere else in the world.

Amen! We are in almost the exact same situation. This validates the insanity while I save for either a down payment here OR to buy a house outright someplace else!

K, I’ll make it a default city instead of a default zip.
I do have photos and a map, from Google! They are at the bottom of each property page.

FWIW, I think zips are perfect. You do have photos and that is excellent. Maybe cities would be equally cool. Just saying that I have no issue with zip vs. city. Which ever is easier on your database :-)

Zips are better than cities. If you want to be REALLY cool, take a look at how Everyblock.com allows arbitrary geographic boundaries (phase II).

For now, I've lost almost all interest in looking at properties for sale. Thinking that systems, like real estate, dealing with such large amounts of money can be fraudulent for years has me leary of ever buying unless I find a place where I decide I must live and can pay cash. Plus, I really love the way/place I live.

justme says

klarek says

rbtivo says
Zips are much harder to navigate for non-natives or others browsing because I have no idea which zips include which towns, for instance.
Useful link:

maps.huge.info/zip.htm

Excellent. For many years, a google search for “zip code map” only turned up companies that wanted to sell you some arcane paper-based marketing tool called. you guessed it, a zip code map.

I've been using that site for years. I have no idea what its actual utility is beyond zip codes, but it's doing something for me that good maps doesn't do. Go figure.

I'm in a very rural area. People would probably laugh if I asked them about a property in my area. They'd be all, "That's in BFE! Who cares!". And I cannot comment on other areas, because I am not familiar with them.

Hope this helps! Love your site, btw. Thank you very much for it.

OK, I created a post for every city in America. Each post doesn't have much yet, but they exist. For example:

http://patrick.net/?p=683661 will show you a "Moss Valley Real Estate" page.

All it has so far is the comment box and a map at the bottom, but I'm going to make each city page show the latest three comments about specific property in that city, if there are any, and hopefully other useful info that will inspire comments.

So now when people set a default city somehow (maybe by searching for that city or using the calculator) the real estate forum will default to that area so they don't see irrelevant comments from other parts of the country.

Is this all completely crazy?

Is this all completely crazy?

Not completely ;-)

When I put in my zip, all the properties were showing "last updated 1999", though.

Yes, that's because they were not updated at all. Those properties got entered by someone clicking on the map at the bottom, or by my robots finding the place was for sale or for rent. There's no update date until a human makes a comment.

I'm glad to know my craziness is not complete, yet.

So much to improve, so little time!

it's very difficult to navigate that forum.

OK, I created a post for every city in America

Not by hand, I hope!

You might want to add the names of the states these cities are in. San Francisco is obvious enough, but "Springfield" could be any of several different cities, and "Paris" will end up being a fight between Texans and Frenchmen!

I wrangled the data with a few custom scripts and set the titles to leave off the state for the biggest city with that name, but include the state for all smaller cities. So there is a post called:

Austin Real Estate

which is for Austin, TX, but then there's another called

Austin MN Real Estate

ChrisLA says

it’s very difficult to navigate that forum.

True! But now that I have all these city posts, I will make it much easier to navigate. The top level (http://patrick.net/real-estate/) will just have the city posts. Each city will show the latest three addresses and also have the space for general comments about that city. It will also have a disambiguation line for cases like Austin, and a list of nearby cities.

And users will set a default city either by setting the zip code in their profile, or just by viewing some post. Then they won't have to navigate back to that city each time. It will just be at the top of the real estate forum for them.

Any other navigation ideas?

I think that since you changed the home page format the site has gotten watered down. People are posting all sorts of threads that have nothing to do with housing (silly pictures, stuff about religion, etc.).

Hi Patrick. In my area (South San Jose) I am still seeing baby boomers trying to get me to underwrite their retirement. What's the point of even entertaining the idea that there are some bargains out there. Wake me up in a couple of decades, when prices around here actually get anywhere close to family income. Then, I will talk. But, for the time being, I am a renter at large.