patrick.net

SoCal Renter says

The vast majority of the Muslim Brotherhood members are peace-loving

Is it possible to nominate an entire movement for the Nobel Peace Prize?

Troy says

Engaging in acts of war would be an impeachable offense if it was against the will of the congress.

How do we determine the "will of the congress" without a vote?

Again, Ray, please elaborate on the "nightmare scenario" of Arab democracy. (Blame Patrick for a lack of Spell Check on this forum!)

Shrekgrinch seems to think the Arab democratic movements have a risk of ending in dictatorship (no doubt) so we should just continue to support the first dictatorship.

Why? Because one dictatorship is better than another?

Far more democracies have emerged without requiring an occupational force than have been created by force. Aren't Libyan rebels an occupational force, anyways?

Finally, Obama isn't asking to increase spending on this operation. Tea Party nuts should be thrilled that the President is being so frugal. Obama is the Tea Party President!

RayAmerica says

Troy says

Engaging in acts of war would be an impeachable offense if it was against the will of the congress.

How do we determine the “will of the congress” without a vote?

The "will of Congress" can be seen by what theydebate and don't vote on as well. I would assume Congress supports the policy of NOT NUKING THE UNITED STATES without requiring a vote on the matter.

“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” - Obama December 2007.

$4 gas might be construed as an imminent threat . . .

surfingerman says

“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” - Obama December 2007.

I always find it amusing to see Republicans trying to stir up anti-war sentiment. You seem more at ease typically on the left side of this picture than the right:

Vicente says

I always find it amusing to see Republicans trying to stir up anti-war sentiment. You seem more at ease typically on the left side of this picture than the right:

“Eagles are dandified vultures” - Teddy Roosevelt

We are.
What we dislike is for those on the right side to bash those on the left side for every sin imaginable to man, then, after successfully routing them on thus created wave of public indignation, change into their clothes and pick up their weapons as a matter-of-course.

Why? To prevent another genocide like what has occurred in Rwanda.

Perhaps you mistake Democrats for pacifists, which is not generally speaking accurate. It's still a valid tool in the toolbox.

Nomograph says

Interesting. First you called Obama an “amateur” when he refused to support the Egyptian dictator, and now you call him a hypocrite because he refuses to support the Libyan dictator. I’m starting to see a pattern…

I cannot lie, that does sound a bit like your flip flopping on the issue. I think we can all agree that we do not want to see another Rwanda.

Fisk says

We are.
What we dislike is for those on the right side to bash those on the left side

Sweet. Nice to see a textbook example of Conservative victimhood in action, even in such a mild state. I've been on the lookout ever since this article:

http://patrick.net/?p=648534

Check it out.

By the way, that photo was probably a bad one to start making a claim about right-wing victimhood with, considering it was taken at Kent State, where 4 unarmed students were shot by national guardsmen, during a peaceful protest. Here's another pic on subject, fyi:

Clarence 13X says

Rwanda

WTF?

...I actually more expected to see you arguing that the action was necessary to stave off POSSIBLE UNION INTRUSION into Libya, but invoking Rawanda is a little extreme even for you, a little out of Whack Field, even though it kind of fits pretty well with your MO & general lack of connection to actual reality.

The only thing that will make me upset with the US involvement in Libya would be if we don't ram a cruise missle directly up Qaddaffi's ass before we end our involvement.

We will never forget Pan Am Flight 103, you pineapple faced son of a bitch.

Anti-war lefties and right-wing pansies in the media can go pound sand. This is long overdue.

(Edit: Rant not directed at anyone on the forums)

“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

“As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States,” Obama continued. “In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch.”

Sen. Barack Obama (Boston Globe interview, Dec. 20, 2007)

kentm says

Kent State, where 4 unarmed students were shot by national guardsmen, during a peaceful protest.

Hardly the "peaceful protest" the left claims. The following is an account from Prof. Jerry M. Lewis, himself an anti-war activist. He was there for all the main events leading up to the shootings:

May 1, Friday evening

"Friday evening in downtown Kent began peacefully with the usual socializing in the bars, but events quickly escalated into a violent confrontation between protestors and local police. The exact causes of the disturbance are still the subject of debate, but bonfires were built in the streets of downtown Kent, cars were stopped, police cars were hit with bottles, and some store windows were broken."

May 2, Saturday evening

"As the Guard arrived in Kent at about 10 p.m., they encountered a tumultuous scene. The wooden ROTC building adjacent to the Commons was ablaze and would eventually burn to the ground that evening, with well over 1000 demonstrators surrounding the building."

May 3, Sunday evening

"Further confrontations between protestors and guardsmen occurred Sunday evening, and once again rocks, tear gas, and arrests characterized a tense campus. "

May 4, Monday

"A Kent State police officer standing by the Guard made an announcement using a bullhorn. When this had no effect, the officer was placed in a jeep along with several Guardsmen and driven across the Commons to tell the protestors that the rally was banned and that they must disperse. This was met with angry shouting and rocks, and the jeep retreated."

"Most of the Guardsmen followed the students directly and soon found themselves somewhat trapped on the practice football field because it was surrounded by a fence. Yelling and rock throwing reached a peak as the Guard remained on the field for about ten minutes."

An audio recording contains conclusive evdidence that prior to the shooting by National Guard Troops, a handgun was fired "four distinct times." Forensic analysis has identified the weapon as a .38 caliber handgun. National Guard Troops were not then, and never have been, issued .38's.

http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2010/10/analysis_of_kent_state_audio_t.html

I think it's comforting to know that we are not sending in any ground troops into Libya. President Obomba stated that we'll only do the killing from the air. No wonder he won the Peace Prize.

Vice President "Fighting" Joe Biden calls for the impeachment of Bush .... for doing the SAME THING Obomba is doing in Libya! I refuse to call our esteemed Vice President a hypocrite ... no way!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dRFJ6CF2Mw&feature=player_embedded

kentm says

Clarence 13X says

Rwanda

WTF?
…I actually more expected to see you arguing that the action was necessary to stave off POSSIBLE UNION INTRUSION into Libya, but invoking Rawanda is a little extreme even for you, a little out of Whack Field, even though it kind of fits pretty well with your MO & general lack of connection to actual reality.

I went through this last year with BAP33, RAYAMERICA and I dont plan on going through it with you Kent. I can understand how, you, as a Union supporter were put off by my comments, however, the fact is that Unions disrupt any kind of reform necessary to make improvements when it is not at their best interest. Should we allow Unions to continue to hold our school districts hostage, hold our corporations hostage and hold our government hostage to reducing costs...No!

If you are so pro-union that you cannot see that they will do anything to ensure their survival then so be it but dont ask the rest of us to turn a blind eye.

Regarding the RWANDA comment, you should read up on how the dark skinned Arabs aka BLACKS are being hunted down by tribes of ARAB militia.

http://blackagendareport.com/content/race-and-arab-nationalism-libya

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/05/world/african-disputes-pit-arab-vs-black.html

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=626137

Clarence 13X says

Should we allow Unions to continue to hold our school districts hostage, hold our corporations hostage and hold our government hostage to reducing costs…No!

Right wing bs. Holding school districts hostage ? I don't believe you did very well in school. Typical. Blame the teachers. I know, I know. You put it more on parents, but clearly you have some issues with teachers, otherwise why would you want them paid less. And with the problems we have with education, you think that lowering teacher pay is going to help education ? Really ? Just how out of touch are you ? Maybe you're thinking, unemployment is high, so QUICK, lets lower the pay of public workers, and give some more tax cuts to the rich and the corporations. OH wait, that's not what you think, thats what your overlords think.

marcus says

Clarence 13X says

Should we allow Unions to continue to hold our school districts hostage, hold our corporations hostage and hold our government hostage to reducing costs…No!

Right wing bs. Holding school districts hostage ? I don’t believe you did very well in school. Typical. Blame the teachers. I know, I know. You put it more on parents, but clearly you have some issues with teachers, otherwise why would you want them paid less. And with the problems we have with education, you think that lowering teacher pay is going to help education ? Really ? Just how out of touch are you ? Maybe you’re thinking, unemployment is high, so QUICK, lets lower the pay of public workers, and give some more tax cuts to the rich and the corporations. OH wait, that’s not what you think, thats what your overlords think.

I have actually worked my way out of Compton, CA into an upper class existence. Through hard work and determination I was able to go to college and build upon my skillsets while my peers sat around watching BET...following Ice Cubes thug nation. They had a choice to go to school and they chose not to. We have to make tough decisions and if your willing to finance the next 45 years so be it but dont expect everyone who voted for Obama to stand by his policies blindly. Not sure how you and KentM continue to mix me up with the right wing based upon my lack of support for unions...lets say I am down the middle.

I am not obligated to blindly following liberal or conservative ideas.

It sure is a good thing we are helping out those Democracy loving rebels in Libya:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

Remember when Dear Leader Obama was saying that we'll be involved in Libya for only "days?" Now, we're being prepared by the Obama Spin Machine that we'll be involved for "months." Days are now months, war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, etc.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110327/D9M7JGB00.html