patrick.net

Matt C. says

I do it myself, but I still think it’s naive to go around talking about ‘liberals’ and ‘conservatives’ in the manner that I see in evidence in this thread. May as well clump tomatoes and rocks in one category, with peppers and sand in another.

Matt

Matt, I like major parts of your response, and it deserves a well thought out reply.

Larry.

kentm says

Tenouncetrout says

Liberals have liberated them selves to being irrelevant. There’s no Crown to over throw.

Sadly its also true of the right, but where liberals begin to recognize they’re being outflanked and bitch about it, conservatives go to the gallows happily blissful that they’ve helped built the steps.
My feeling is that the coming two years will reveal a lot of conservatives waking up to the fact that the ‘people power’ candidates they’ve championed and elected don’t represent them at all. The problem for all of us is that the vocabulary they’ve been given over the past several decades and that they’ll use to express their growing anger is a violence and extremism.
Look at the statement above:
larrypatrickmaloney says

There can be no peace, between us, nor the radical left in this country.

You lefties, are only about lies, and changing the rules, taking other peoples wealth and work, and disagreeing with anything this is just, right or true.

Nothing but hyperbole and platitudes. Where do you go from there?
Anyway, I suppose you could say that there actually is a crown to overthrow, and its the corporate system that dominates and buys US politics. What do you say about that, you bold freedom fighters? Do you want to liberate yourself and your neighbors to live happier more fulfilling lives, or do you want to continue to help liberate corporations to make even greater profits and to continue to send more local jobs to China while you pay more taxes and hope you have a job and pension next year?

Kent,

Fair enough...

I do agree that corporations shouldn't be permitted personal rights. For sure an non-person entity shouldn't be able to lobby congress.

larrypatrickmaloney says

You are all so SMART for pointing out how great Sweden is….
NOT!

larrypatrickmaloney says

Please explain to us toothless, inbred Tea party hicks

There is actually no real debate going on here, of course. The real protest from all the Fox News types is about how angry they feel at being perceived as stupid, because they can’t spell, or because they are literally missing teeth, or because they have a southern accent.
Shame is the unspoken driver of Fox News’ popularity.
It’s easy to point out how unfair and unbalanced Fox News is, but that misses the essential point that it’s not about fairness or balance at all. It’s about feeling unloved and unwanted. Really. So even perfect arguments bounce off a fact-proof shield of anger.
That anger at feeling rejected is stoked and used by Rupert Murdoch to keep the capital gains tax rate at 15% for himself and his very rich friends.
And even explaining this won’t help, because it doesn’t make those Fox News viewers feel any more accepted or loved, the way Fox News does.

Notice the lack of response to my question, evasion of the subject, and a bad attempt to be denigrating.

Did I get the spelling correct oh great English teacher?

May I do a happy dance on my tippy toes and clap my fingers together?

larrypatrickmaloney says

I do agree that corporations shouldn’t be permitted personal rights. For sure an non-person entity shouldn’t be able to lobby congress.

Its the money.

So the left and you can agree in peace on that point, at the very least. So... there's SOME peace between us. and I bet if I dig I could find a few other points of agreement.

Now tone down the hyperbole, consider what it is you're saying, and stop electing people that are completely beholden to the corporations and are intent on screwing us all over.

Ah here we go again. Lets talk about what we think historical figures might have meant hundreds of years ago, as if it has any bearing on the world today.

I like arguing hypotheticals too. Hypothetically one day people will stop being fucking idiots.

Kevin says

I like arguing hypotheticals too. Hypothetically one day people will stop being fucking idiots.

I have to disagree with you Kevin, hypothetically of course...

elliemae says

Larry, your attempt to blame all of the ills of the world on people who believe differently than you do kind of shows why people with your belief systems is the problem. The only thing that it shows to me is that you’re a dick, but a little one…

Sorry - the other side is guilty of the same. Why is it that we feel that we can only win when the other side loses? This is the right way to behave in war but why must our political system be at war - ALL of the time? Obama isn't wrong ALL of the time. Neither was GWB. It's the blind hatred on both sides that get us nowhere.

EightBall says

Sorry - the other side is guilty of the same.

True, I remember the websites (whithouse dot ?) with the hateful satire. There were very strong feelings exacerbated by the belief that he lost the popular vote, and won only with the supreme court's help.

But in spite of all that, it was much easier for him to get his plans through. Especially after 9/11. I don't recall anything remotely resembling the way this last congress opposed and blocked everything Obama wanted to do, and openly said their sole goal was to "make him ineffective." Maybe a difference is that everyone thought Bush was a bumbling fool, and it was a fluke that he was elected once, and it didn't occur to democrats they would have to obstruct everything to prevent him from being elected again. In fact, they assumed Bush would take care of that, by actually doing what he wanted to do !!

In other words, they "misunderestimated" him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/11/2011-01-11_bullets_of_hatred_crazy_talk_encourages_crazy_people__and_the_crazy_people_too_o.html

EightBall says

It’s the blind hatred on both sides that get us nowhere.

Absolutely. I thoroughly disliked GW, but never wanted him dead. I do believe that he'll be known as the worst president ever (please - I don't even want to know if we could do worse!). The hatred is out of control - and yes, it's on both sides. It needs to stop.

Nomograph says

Try questioning ABC news, or PBS or PBS, or NPR, or *any* other news source and nobody will really care. Fox News appeals to sycophants.

Oh yeah I go to NPR where they give glorifying editorials for Thugs, Guerrillas, and unwed teen mothers, while they chastise and fire hard working Americans because of their political Right affiliation.

Nomograph says

What’s interesting is how the “Fox Newsies” (your words, not mine) get so up in arms when someone questions their Messiahs. It’s like a weird cult or something.

Yes, very much like a cult. Fox gives the benefits of cameraderie, an enemy to hate, and hope of some kind of salvation that will take away the pain of being disrespected. And just like a religion, it's impervious to reality when you don't have something better to offer.

The real solution is a sincere desire on both sides to get along, even if that means being slightly uncomfortable.

shrekgrinch says

because your precious Demobitch got hit.

Typical right-wing hate. Euphemistically deny Gabby's humanity as she struggles for survival in intensive care. People are so much easier to kill when you don't think of them as people, aren't they? Callous and sick.

But what do you care? Words don't have any meaning and don't have consequences...

shrekgrinch says

All of that rant has nothing to do with Lougher killing the people that he did. Unless you have proof to back you up instead of crazy-talk that makes me think that if anyone had any influence on Lougher, it was you.

Since your Fox News cannot report on the truth, it is clear Loughner was a right-wing fanatic:

At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to “currency that’s not backed by gold or silver.” The idea that silver and gold are the only “constitutional” money is widespread in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It’s linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money — what they refer to with a sneer as “Federal Reserve notes” — is not lawful.

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.

Loughner talks about how you “can’t trust the government” and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of his videos. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a “left-winger,” that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.

Finally, I think Loughner’s reading list, although it included children’s books and a few classics, had an underlying theme — the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that’s the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand’s We the Living and Orwell’s 1984 and Animal Farm, among others. I would argue that that’s the way Loughlin seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s Mein Kampf — as variants of a kind of generalized “smash the state” attitude.

Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, which does similar work to that of Hatewatch, points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a “second American constitution.” As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that “raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie” in the Arizona shooting.

http://www.alternet.org/story/149466/is_jared_loughner_a_right-wing_extremist

Even the local sheriff points to the sickening vitriol poisoning the atmosphere in Gabby's district. That is proof positive for me.

The conservative's much bally-whoed source knew Loughner when he was a peaceful, pot-smoking liberal. He never hurt anyone while he was a Lefty!

Contrary to your assertions, multiple sources have pointed out that Loughner has become a right-wing nut job. And a raging alchoholic to the point of being hospitalized for alchohol poisoning.

Again, law enforcement in the local district point to the vitriolic hate spewing forth from right wing sources. Clearly, something changed with Loughner. I trust law enforcement.

Why is it that the Right can find no peace with Americans? Gabby was a gun toting, red blooded American patriot. Yet you wish her dead.

Let's pull the plug and be done with it.

Sad, and telling of the conservative, right-wing mindset. Just like Loughner, wishing for death on fellow Americans.

"Prove it! Prove it! Prove Obama was born in Haw...I mean Prove Loughner was a right wing wacko like me!"

I'll break it down for you.

Despite what Glenn Beck says, liberals do not consider the "Communist Manifesto" to have any ideological value, so it has the same influence as the "Wizard of Id" as proving Loughner is a lefty. However, Loughner's reading list did include Ayn Rand. This is one of Glenn Beck's and the conservative ideologues favorite authors.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2188571/posts

You keep asking me to prove Loughner was a lefty, but you ignore all of the proof. I don't know what to tell you, man. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink.

You are just pulling crap out of your ass! Admit it! Just admit it.

Calm down.

No, local law enforcement (that sheriff) is telling shit to cover its ass ...

So now the right wing hates the sheriff departments of America? You really believe that police just cover-up crimes? Why does the Right hate law enforcement now?

You can’t prove anything. You just make shit up.

Sir, please calm down.

Lefties gave up any right to be called an ‘American’ long ago.

Soooooo....Is this in your leader Glenn Beck's Constitution? The one I have is a tad different ...

No. That’s ME speaking. [Wishing for the death of fellow Americans]

Ok, I'm now convinced Loughner has Internet access in his jail cell.

Communism works, Capitalism works, even anarchy works... either system will work, but only as well as people in it care to make it work.

When too many try to cheat, steal and defraud - the system collapses under its own gluttony and greed.

Lets not divide into liberals and conservatives, because there are too few extremes and most people are somewhere in the middle. It just comes down to social contract, those who live with it make the system better... while those who break it screw the system and the rest of us.

shrekgrinch says

No. Because that Demobitch isnt’ an ‘American’. As I keep stating.

You keep advocating the killing of Gabby Giffords. (I guess deeming her non-American and labeling her with euphamisms allows you to see her as non-human?).

Jared, I really think you should talk to the guards about getting some psychiatric help. The voices you hear in your head are not real (unfortunately, the right wing voices you heard were far too real I'm afraid). I'm sorry they used you as a patsy.

You consider the Chicago Tribune to be left wing? Have you ever read it? You might as well call the Wall St. Journal left wing...

larrypatrickmaloney says

Lets take your statement:
1.) “No truth spews forth from the rectal mouths of Drudge, Rush, Palin, Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly, and Coulter. ”
If you would read, or listen to any of these sources, you wouldn’t write this, and you are 100% wrong.

The lies have been documented in detail. Here is a sample of fact checked sources documenting the lies:

http://motherjones.com/politics/1995/05/big-fat-lies
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/99972/rush_limbaugh_attacks_obama_with_lies_and_bigotry/
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/whoppers-of-2009/
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2009/0619/fact-checking-rush-and-rachel
http://www.newshounds.us/
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008180076

larrypatrickmaloney says

a.) Drudge isn’t a commentator, opinion writer, or editor. He is a “reporter” of sorts, who just posts LINKS to his website of other articles. He does write headlines, but he doesn’t write the articles you see on his site. Those are just links.
Go ahead and visit www.drudgereport.com , and click on a few links. It’s OK, nobody will know. You can see for yourself, don’t take my word for it.

Drudge often routes readers to conservative blogs and news sites. Drudge highlights news items that further the right-wing agend and his link titles often twist the event into a pro-conservative soundbite.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/09/times_klein_drudge_huffington_new_way_at_looking_at_news.html

Now, liberal sites do the same thing. I don't disagree with that. However, I strongly disagree that the sites you list below are "liberal". That is laughable.

larrypatrickmaloney says

b.) Glen Beck: First day after the shooting, he 100% condemned it, and offered solace to the families with loss.

Yes, holding a handgun while decrying violence. Hmmm...

I didn't even include any fact checked websites on Glenn. He would have crashed my browser with the overload of lies.

larrypatrickmaloney says

c.) Rush is a force of nature. I just DARE you to listen to his show ONE TIME, just ONE TIME. When you listen, please record, or take notes to identify some specific lies he tells, then share it with us, so we can all do the research and expose Rush if he lies.
d.) I don’t like Hannity, or O’reilly, so I don’t listen or watch their show. I can’t offer any input. (I don’t like Hannity, his voice is like nails on a chalk board). At least cranky old O’Reilly is considered to be pretty “moderate” by most on the right.
And what “right wing media” are you referring to? Rush, Drudge, Fox, all the ones you listed? (I’m asking literally, not rhetorically) Please list what you consider right wing media.

Rush himself considers himself to be an entertainer and neither a journalist nor a reporter. As does Glenn Beck. How can you possible think you can get any news from them?

Here is Rush's own words:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030209/content/01125111.guest.html

RUSH: Okay, so I am an entertainer, and I have 20 million listeners, 22 million listeners because of my great song-and-dance routines here. Yes, said Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, I'm incendiary, and yes, it's ugly.

larrypatrickmaloney says

We would consider, MSM to be “left wing” media, which includes, but not limited to:
Papers:
1.) Washington Post
2.) New York Times
3.) Chicago Tribune
4.) LA Times
5.) Most of the rest of the American News papers (which were bailed out with the bankers & GM remember?)
TV:
6.) ABC News (TV)
7.) CBS News (TV)
8.) NBC News (TV)
9.) NPR
10.) CNN & Headline news)
12.) MSNBC
There are plenty more of course, but I guess my point is, that there are so many different “left” biased “news sources”, you and other lefties complain about the abundance of the “right wing news sources”.

Where are the facts proving any of the above are left wing? C'mon! This is a fact disproven assertion by right-wing hate groups.

Here are the lefties:
Huffington Post - Yes
Rachel Maddow on MSNBC - Yes
Keith Olberman on MSNBC - Yes
Daily KOS - Yes

The right has the following self acknowledged media powerhouses:
FOX News - Yes
Wall Street Journal - Yes
Washington Examiner - Yes
US News and World Report - Yes
Blumberg - Yes
Newsmax.org - Yes
THE ENTIRE AM DIAL!!!

The budgets of these dwarf anything owned by the left. The right is very rich and very powerful.

And the below are corporate controlled mouthpieces for corporate interests:
CNN - Yes
CBS - Yes
ABC - Yes
NBC - Yes
Time - Yes
Newsweek - Yes

larrypatrickmaloney says

I think it’s obvious there are so many more left biased, and manipulated news sources generating “stories”. You are being dis-ingenuous to complain about right-biased sources.
Before Rush, there was almost nothing available for the “right” to consume electronically.

This is just an assertion.

The local sheriff in Arizona confirmed that the right-wing vitriol created a climate that facilitated the shooting. I trust law enforcement over right-wing self-proclaimed entertainers.

Nomograph says

shrekgrinch says

that Demobitch isnt’ an ‘American’.

Has anyone actually *seen* her birth certificate?
We are witnessing this shrekgrinch guy going off the deep end in real-time.

Too many little clues seem to point towards the possibility that Loughner has Internet access in jail.

SoCal Renter says

The local sheriff in Arizona confirmed that the right-wing vitriol created a climate that facilitated the shooting. I trust law enforcement over right-wing self-proclaimed entertainers.

I call a big BS on this guy. They knew this Loughner lowlife was a nutjob and even have files on this guy that they won't release. You basically killed any shred of credibility you may have with your statement here. The Democrat sheriff that failed to contain a nut that they were aware of has started blaming the nebulous "media" - the investigation should be into what this guy knew and where they failed so miserably.

SoCal Renter says

Where are the facts proving any of the above are left wing? C’mon! This is a fact disproven assertion by right-wing hate groups.

If you think the NY Times isn't leftist, you need to have your head examined. They are about as "Fair And Balanced' as Faux News.

It's the descent of a once moral society. You have to increase your dosage of drugs over and over in order to get the same high. The sex gets more perverted because we are desensitized to what was once provocative because it is in our face on TV/Movies/internet 24/7. We no longer disagree with others we need to crush them into oblivion in order to prove that we are right. We dream that our doctors will make technical-but-not-fatal mistakes so we can sue them and profit without having to work for it. As Chesterton put it nearly 100 years ago (paraphrase here), "Eventually we have to stab at our nerves just to get a feeling - even though we are destroying ourselves in the process"