patrick.net

Skibum, 3-5 months is approaching Kaiser standards. Rather than shocking us, you are making Canada look attractive.

Skibum, 3-5 months is approaching Kaiser standards. Rather than shocking us, you are making Canada look attractive. '

I never claimed Kaiser was part of mainstream US healthcare!
Might as well be treated in Canada in that case.

Do you have any information or opinion on investing in their ADR?

No, but it seems like an interesting investment idea. Worth investigating. I don't really know much about it, except that it is a very well known brand in India, and probably respected. And also that they have made significant investments in purchasing the latest and greatest equipment.

The ADRs are not listed yet. Their latest financial statement says they earned a net profit of US$ 70M in 2006.

Given that they also treat patients from developed countries other than US, the US$ devaluation may not hurt them a lot.

If I find any more information I will post it here.

Finally I would like to go to tommy toys with peterp if the invite doesn’t get challenged

Other than the bisque, is the food any good? What should I expect?

New Topic Suggestion : Spring Thud (I mean bounce!)

skibum :

I would echo your thoughts based on personal experience. I have always had insurance, so I am aware of only better side of the story.

I have had my share of problem while getting an appointment for a flu or waiting in the ER for a whole night. But unfortunately there was a real emergency. And fortunately it was in the US. The doctor who helped at that time is now like God to me. The entire staff had been tremendous. This was in the Camino Medical Group.

I challenge that cursory google “medical tourism” remark as when I googled it I recieved 14.6mil without the parenthesis but 640k with them no where near 24 million . What do you mean by cursory ? uberchallenge on that

OK. You win. I accept that "error" in my statement. :-)

StuckinBA and SFBB

I apologize if I came off sounding very unconvinced of your story. The reason I asked is because I had a talk with my friend who invested in a "annual body check" facility in Bangkok and is thinking of how to attract more US patients. I basically told him to forget about it, because as I understand, almost everyone who has an insurance coverage in this country won't be interested due to the lack of monetary incentive. If you need the best medical care and advanced treatment, after you max out $5K - $10K per family per year, insurance picks up everything, so why bother? If you have trouble paying the medical insurance bill, how can you possibly have enough money to pay for medical bill anywhere else? Also, most doctors at these Thai facilities are NOT US-trained, instead, they are mostly trained in Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong or Malaysia, because it costs MUCH MUCH LESS to become a doctor in these places compared to the US. In the UK system, you can select a medical major in college and go through 6 years of training and go straight to residency, shaving off a good two years of medical school. Most of these doctors in Thailand have NEVER practiced in a developed country (the director of a certain practice may have), they graduate from medical school overseas and head straight back.

I agree with what skibum says about medicare in other countries and his explanation.

Incidentally, a long-term family friend of mine opened an "organ transfer" facility in southern China, she is an Australia-trained doctor practicing in Hong Kong for many years. I would say what she does may sound a bit morally off the wall, but that is a niche which definitely has a very valid market segment. Kidney transplant in this country is not about medical coverage or technique, it is about the supply of volunteer organs, and if you are over 50, you will be so far down the waiting list, and overseas "medical care" will be the only choice if you want to hang on to dear life.

I lived through the Hong Kong medical system, which is a replicate of the UK system. Medicare is practically free and the coverage is universal from age 0 to age infinity, but the quality is near to crap and getting worse every day, plus the wait is forever. However, if you want any attention to your health, good service, and don't want to die over a 3-year wait to get an operation or cancer treatment, Thailand or India is your best choice.

"What shall we call Spring 2007? “The Blair Witch Project”?"

The Economist made another nice suggestion: "JUNE is National Homeownership Month in America. National Foreclosure Month would be more apt."

I got it!! The Summer of 2007 will be:

“I Know You Listed This POS Last Summer”

SP, Hilarious!

OO,

Doubting faceless posts on the internet? HOW DARE YOU! :)

There isn't a HUGE market for tourist medical expenses, as most of what you would need is available in the U.S., but like I said, Buck's treatment is still in clinical trials, and if you're not in on the trial, you're out of luck in the U.S. And even AFTER CTs, it can be awhile before insurance gets around to approving procedures.

OO,

This all points to how medical care is responding to global free-market forces. Wealthy individuals (even if only relative to 3rd world countries) can choose to bypass their home country's limited access to healthcare by going to places like Thailand and Mexico. The US insurance system means most US wealthy don't need to do this, unless it comes to limited supply items like organs or non-approved (by the FDA) therapies.

And even AFTER CTs, it can be awhile before insurance gets around to approving procedures.

SFBB, I realize many sick patients are desperate for a cure or at least palliation, but they also need to keep in mind that clinical trials and a rigorous approval process are there for a reason. Many touted new therapies have subsequently been shown to be duds, or worse yet, harmful over the years. Caveat emptor if travelling overseas for non-approved by the US care...

Skibum,

I didn't blame him for going. His doctor suggested it. This one had the dreaded 'stem cell' name in it, and had been worked on in europe for the past 8 years. Only now is Stanford (I believe) getting the U.S. CTs going.

Basically, he has a weakening heart. They used some treatments to try and induce adult stem cells from his own blood cells, and reinjected the stem cells into his heart at about 20 different locations. This is supposed to cause new muscle growth in the heart, strengthening it.

According to the doctor, it has definately helped his heart. Now if only he could fix his lungs....

Sadly, he's at the point where medical treatments are 'easing' him, not really 'helping' him, IMHO. This has definately kicked up his quality of life.

I did research for my Master's Biophysics, so I'm at least tangentally aware of what is required, skibum. :) Not a doctor like you, but I do know the trials and tribulations faced by stem cell treatments getting anything done in the U.S.

SFBB,
Sounds like at least anecdotally, he's doing well. That's good to hear. As a random aside, I read the recently deceased Don Ho had the same treatment, also in Thailand...

Skibum,

I should also add that I'd almost never go abroad for anything that wasn't approved in the U.S., and only then if I couldn't afford it myself or through insurance. The U.S. still has the good stuff, even if it's painfully expensive.

(I would deny a million dollar procedure to myself if it is only likely to give me a few more years of life. I'm not worth it. Did I mention that I think old people should die earlier until they invent a real anti-aging pill?

Yep, that's astrid, she's against little kids, old people, motherhood, and probably apple pie.)

"I Know You Listed this POS Last Summer"

It's absolutely perfect. It has all the ear markings of a sequel when the "original" wasn't all that freaking great to begin with! As with many cheesy/sleazy sequels the original cast will be replaced by even lesser known/lesser talent actors. And... since we're all familiar with the premise of the plot we can fast forward to the gore much quicker!

Astrid, would you deny yourself a 50k procedure if it'd make your last few years more comfortable?

Well, I think our medical system should allow people to die. My brother's father-in-law is a typical case which is "put on life support" by the advanced medical treatment with sky as the limit, almost. He is constantly checking in and out of hospital, attending emergency room every other month, having heart palpitations all the time along with a dozen diseases like diabetes, CVD, earlier-stage cancers (yes it is plural), and he is 85. My brother and his wife have been frequently woken up in the middle of the night catering to his needs in the last couple of years, and we honestly all hope such a situation won't last long. The only reason why he is still living is because our medicine is too powerful, so powerful that people who should have been dead are kept alive in a very superficial way, dragging down the quality of life of the entire family along with his, until the relative care-givers starts to get sick and tired of the patient.

It depends. I would seriously consider assisted suicide if I'm in great pain and unlikely to get better.

A $50K procedure that gives you QOL is well worth it.

If someone can live with dignity, and cause least disruptions to other people's lives, then I am all for it, after all, life is precious. But if life gets so low that all one can do is simply "living" without all the sensual pleasures, and the living person's only obsession is worrying about when the next heart attack will strike, then I think such a life is just not worth living any more. We as a society should also not fund someone to live on at such an animal level, especially for very old patients.

I'm going to guess that this is someone from patrick.net posing as "revengeofaone". This is too funny, crashing in on their phoney world and dropping the bomb on that self righteous realtor. Scroll down to the end of this post and check it out; this will probably be deleted by tomorrow.

Yep, that’s astrid, she’s against little kids, old people, motherhood, and probably apple pie.

What if it is apple pie a la mode? :)

From that post:

can i ask you all something?

are they making any more land?

Too funny! :)

I guarantee that her buyers are now shopping a lower price because they could no longer get the larger loan. 500K was it?

Reminds me of the days when you had to actually qualify and prove it. 5 or 10 thousand is more than enough to no longer qualify when you are at you maximum approval.

Hey all,
Remember that FL Realtor "Becky Troutt" quoted in a recent topic/post? I've been watching her campaign of mis-information ever since. Here's her latest load:

"Yes folks, despite what the media is saying, home sales are on the rise! Below are actual sales stats taken directly from the Manatee MLS of homes that have sold and closed in the past few months in Manatee County.

...The media tends to lump all the markets together and gives an average of what is going on. That is NOT factual information. Real estate is local, and every city is different. The above numbers don't lie! Now is a good time to start looking if you haven't already. Feel free to visit my website and search the MLS to see what is currently available."

http://tinyurl.com/284b4f

She is becoming something like a realt-whore posterchild to me. Or at the very least, an interesting subject.

Well, I think our medical system should allow people to die.

RING RING, RING RING

Oh, it's AARP calling!

They're telling me that you probably supported Hitler and his eugenics campaign - and that's why you hate our seniors who have devoted their lives to helping the world and now want to kill them.

Why do you hate our senior citizens' Freedom(TM)?

The U.S. still has the good stuff, even if it’s painfully expensive.

My richer foreign associates regularly come to the US for cancer treatments especially. Though I've heard that many now go to Europe because getting a visa to come here is frickin hard. (Especially folks from the Middle East)

Just think - you've got cancer. You feel awful. And now you get to deal with Homeland Security at Chicago O'Hare. Yuck.

Maybe that's the future: high end complicated stuff like cancers - come to the US. Really boring stuff that's low end, stay in the US. Semi-routine elective stuff like boob jobs, complete dental makeovers, hip replacements - go abroad.

This is too funny, crashing in on their phoney world and dropping the bomb on that self righteous realtor.

Bad bad revengeofaone ! Kicking them while they are down. Bad boy, bad boy.

I have to admit these choice pickings from "that" site are freaking great. It gives so much insight into what non-Pactrick.netters think.

In another of her blog topics, Miss Troutt equates buyers to "Sitting Ducks", just waiting for the bottom. She also writes;

"The news media brings a lot of the negativity on themselves. If they'd just shut up and let people see the facts for themselves, I guarantee you many more sales would be happening. Are the news reporters in the MLS everyday? NO! Are the newspaper journalists in the MLS everyday? NO! But, I am! I see first hand that things have started to swing in the other direction. The snowbirds are here now, and activity is starting to pick up!

http://tinyurl.com/284b4f Scroll...

Notice that there are 0 comments to her posts. ..not that I haven't tried.

“I Know You Listed this POS Last Summer”

It’s absolutely perfect. It has all the ear markings of a sequel when the “original” wasn’t all that freaking great to begin with!

Oh please don't diss that one ;-) Movies like that make it possible to have a outrageous movie like "Scary Movie" ! IMO "Scary Movie" was very smartly done. It does a great job of making a parody of another movie "Scream" which had some self-parody moments in itself. And to me "Scream" was one of the rare horror movies that actually have a believable surprise ending. "Scream 2" has a character that complains about horror movie sequels, which unintentionally turn out to be true about itself.

I find most horror movies very funny. So "Scary Movie" was riot for me.

Anyway. I am thrilled to find movie references here. Movies are as dear to me as food.

Stuck,

If you like horror movies, how about "The Grudge": there's even a bit about a realtor (Japanese, though). They sell the family that house knowing it was full of scary-a$$ dead people. Now would an American Realtor (TM) have done something so unethical? Of course not! The worst they would have done was to make up a phantom bidding war to get you pay over asking for the place.

Hence, you have three available for those who want to live in Pac Heights, The Marina, Cow Hollow area, but you have way more people looking.

Hey Big Brother, I guess we just all need to FACE REALITY and stop being CONFUSED RENTERS, because MARINA IS PRIME!

Hey Big Brother, I guess we just all need to FACE REALITY and stop being CONFUSED RENTERS, because MARINA IS PRIME!

Good one :-)

skibum :

I will watch "Grudge" if it's truly C-grade. Speaking of Realtor movies, the best is perhaps "Glengerry Glen Ross". Another favorite of mine is "American Beauty" which has a lead character as RE agent.

Secondly, these people shouldn’t be buying if they can’t afford a basic down payment.

Honestly, you should not care whether they can afford or not. That is their problem. They should know better.

However, the risk issue is very real. I would rather take a 5-10% cut then 25% owner-financing. It is VERY likely to be the 25% that you will never see again.

NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE

Hey Big Brother, I guess we just all need to FACE REALITY and stop being CONFUSED RENTERS, because MARINA IS PRIME!

Hey, I just think Big Brother is a LITTLE WORRIED that, while us CURIOUS CATS are all just WONDERIN AND WAITIN for that correction, an unstoppably HOT MARKET is about to go BOOMTIME and open a can of WOOPASS on us. He thinks we're just being delusional FAKE Procrastinators, only fooling ourselves.

Ok, top that one! :mrgreen:

Some random thoughts on topics in this thread.

When I was a undergraduate student in Ontario long time ago, the student loan program was called Ontario Student Assistant Program (OSAP), but was frequently dubbed the Ontario Stereo Assistant Program, it was generous back then because there were grants given that did not have to be paid back, frauds were not uncommon.

One of my undergrad engineering classmate who graduated top of our class became a radiologist at Boston General, but the guys that are making the most money are mostly the top-tier MBA guys.

I also heard of someone (2 degrees of separation, friend of a friend) that traveled also to Thailand and raved about the treatment. The US used to be an overflow supplier of medical treatment for Canada, that provincial government would pay US health facilities to treat Canadians, not sure if it is still true.

There is a RW who sold over 20 houses last year in our neighborhood, she bragged about getting a record high price for one of the sellers in her newsletter, we try to hit her up for donation for the neighborhood schools, she would have none of it.