patrick.net

HARM Says:
April 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Thanks, Malcolm. Just curious, do you work in a field related to corporate/IP law?

My background is in logistics, but a formative job was in a startup involving new fuel cell technology. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Production Operations Management. My main knowledge comes from my Master's degree in Entrepreneurship. This stuff was hammered into us. Each class basically was the same core concept with a different direction. Of course my direct experience in real estate is what I try to contribute on this board. So in a nutshell, that's me.

I try to desensitize people to terms like monoploy or disruption because these are hot button words that politicians use to work people up into some anti whatever frenzy.

"My background is in logistics,"

Ho, brother! I have a MS in Logisticd Management thanks to the Air Force policy of overeducating its officers.

"Does that mean we could one day argue that ‘housing should be managed and allocated by a central, responsible authority on a needs basis in most developed societies’?"

I in humor laid out the ideal housing market. The seller lists it with the government listing office, and then a seller goes through the government board screening and then pays the government determined price. It's an improvement on Russia's old housing system!

Headset, that must have sucked. In an APICS class I made friends with a marine logistics guy. He was cool, he had a photo of him saluting Ronald Reagan getting off of Marine 1. The part of logistics that is fun is the creativity a small or medium company allows but it would suck to be in the military doing it.

Patents are not "monopolies" from an economic definition, but a barrier to entry which may be used to defend market power. Patents are different from other forms of market power because they are a specific type of legislation which is accessible to anyone wishing to participate in the free market as innovators. The only barriers to establishing a patent aside from innovating something are some marginal fees and basic form-filling-out skills.

Defending a patent is an entirely different thing.

And currently, the patent system is 99% broken, in my opinion. Far too many junk patents get awarded for things that are prior art or obvious conclusions.

Also, in general, you are not _supposed_ to be able to patent software algorithms. You can patent formulae, but not algorithms. Thus, Zillow could patent the way the do property value estimates. MLS could not (or should not be able to) patent a pile of code which serves up records from a database.

second seller is buyer in that post. sorry :(

DS says

"There is 1) licensing meaning certification, and 2) licensing meaning passing on the right to use some protected technology to another party, usually in exchange for a fee. I was referring to the latter, you were apparently referring to the former."

That is why I put the term "royalty" in my statement.

Now your writing is much more articulate than my brutish prose (and thus a delight to read, I might add) , but your well crafted response is just proving my point.

Randy, I agree with the patent system being broken. In business we don't mince words, patents are a legal monopoly. It is in every textbook and I guarantee you will see it that way if you do a search on legal forms of monopoly.

I am seriously considering retiring from the rat race in a year or six (i.e. nothing finite),

Holy cow. What's your income strategy?

Did you do -that- well from stock options at G?

A friend of a friend just retired from Apple with $9mil in stock options after 9 years. :(

You can patent software code.
Can computer software be patented?
Yes, filing a patent, Even though you can't get a patent on a mathematical formula, you may be able to get protection for a specific application of a formula. Thus, software may qualify for a patent if the patent application produces a useful, concrete and tangible result.

http://www.meredithkeyhani.com/patent/software.html

HeadSet Says:
your well crafted response is just proving my point.

I see.

Just on the question of 'protected' technologies, anything that is written is protected by copyright automatically. Proving you were the first to write it is a different story, but computer code, musical composition and essays and poems are all automatically self-copyrighted under the law, unlike 'algorithms' (moot and evolving) and 'look and feel'. (Or are they? Microsoft recently succeeded in patenting the y-axis in a recent flurry of IP activity.)

but see:

MS seeks patent experts - no patent experience necessary

Microsoft is recruiting patent engineers - but complete ignorance of patent law is not considered an obstacle to being hired, according to the job ad.

Last year, Redmond began outsourcing the task of researching and analysing patents to a firm called Intellevate, and the team is based in New Delhi, India. The applicant must be a computer science or electrical engineering PhD, and will be involved in prior art searches, patentability research, "file wrapper analysis", "claim scope mapping" and technical analysis.

But "patent experience" itself "is helpful but not mandatory," for potential recruits. To emphasize the point, the ad stresses that "although advance knowledge of patent law is helpful, it is not required".

Over the past eighteen months, Microsoft has dramatically accelerated its patent filing activity. Many claims, such as tabbing through a web page have little chance of withstanding the most basic prior art examination.

Just before Christmas Microsoft was granted a patent for online bill payment (which includes the innovation "'the consumer is in direct control of the amount to be paid and the payment date") and fine-grained IM presence - ("... a participant might not want someone else to know whether or not the individual is logged in or out to lunch. Thus, one might want to prohibit other individuals from viewing such presence information").

The USPTO has also granted Microsoft's Expedia a patent for matching a quote with an offer, which claimed -

"An effective electronic exchange system for satisfying an offer by a purchaser with a quote from a supplier has eluded those skilled in the art."

Other recent filings include attempting to patent the "y-axis", the "IS NOT" operator in Basic, interactive test feedback, and reading ahead 20 records at a time in a database, when the user clicks the Previous or Next buttons.

Along with other companies, Microsoft is mining India's brilliant engineering talent to save money. But judging by recent form, it may as well save even more money by dropping the requirement for PhDs altogether - and simply employ children.

and: Microsoft patents tabbing through a web page

I think that smallpox still holds the record for killing humans

I like to think of myself as a professional musician
I dropped out of high school and the
Berklee School of Music Boston Mass

when I was a Steinway & Sons salesperson I thought of myself as a "professional salesperson"

And before marriage I paid dues to the Philadelphia Section of the PGA as an assistant Golf Professional

and now at 53 into my 17th month of retirement trading stocks and commodity futures options I call myself

a professional day trader
sec calls me a pattern day trader
morgan stanley calls me a client
message board longs when I short call me all sorts of things

so if people who know where bathrooms and kitchens are
located when walking clients thru a home want to call themselves professionals, its not a big deal. seriously

I thought death holds the record for killing humans....

Problem with Microsoft is they infringe on many patents from all kinds of companies. They are being sued by everyone. As result they pay billions in settlements and legal costs. They dont advertise how they hire the brigthest out of top universities. Here is just an example of one. Patent lawyers will tell about so many others.

Microsoft ended another long-standing legal dispute on Monday, announcing a $440 million settlement and licensing deal with InterTrust Technologies, which markets digital rights management tools.

Actually a 50% drop would be great for bay area. Recent news on Seagate earnings show that demand is high but downward pricing pressure is very high. This is true with so many employers here.

Lets look at Japan prices declined over 50% yet they are still able to maintain dominance in Consumer and Comercial products world wide. Did Toyota Sony Panasonic Toshiba etc etc go bankrupt? No.. fact is they are No1 in the world.

So how would that make the Bay Area like current-day Detroit?

Lets not forget the Auto Union won every demand from Auto companies.
High costing employers killed the business model that could not compete with cheaper Japanese products. This was also true back in late 80s when Japan dumped DRAM IC and killed off all US DRAM. It was a blood bath we never recovered from. They also dominate SemiEquipment and Mainframe production. Others in Korea Taiwan and Far East has dominated HT manufacturing. Yes Internet revolution gave us a second leg up but that is past now and the question is Whats Next?

That is the Risk not factored into home prices today for the long term. It was back in the 1980s. People were very informed that it can end on a flip of the dime. They did not overspand and did save like crazy.

So the anwser is buried in the past... HIGH EMPLOYEE COST and their mortgages!

Malcolm

I guarantee not all textbooks agree with your interpretation of "how it's done in business".

http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/whoswho/bio.cfm?ID=53

Not only did I study directly under Greenwald, but had to use one of the many books he authored.

Another textbook which disagrees with you is:

"Economics of Strategy", Besanko et. al. I studied that under Dr. Kristen Barry, a reasonably prominent IP Patent and Antitrust expert witness and professor.

I didn't say you couldn't patent software. I said, verbatim, a pile of code which serves up records from a database. That is *not* patentable. If you can show me a successfully defended collection of patented SQL statements I'll retract my assertion. You also can't patent general utility functions like sort algorithms. You can patent a particular specific application of a sort algorithm (and thus a formula) like say a mechanism that sorts logical network structures for telco telecom usage (I know because I own such a patent). But you cannot patent* the sort itself, nor the code that expresses that sort.

Code is considered idiomatic anyway by the legal system, and not a source of IP. IP is contained in the concepts expressed in code.

*You can patent, but it is an empty patent easily knocked down by procedural challenges.

Just a question, what exactly do you think I do for a living? I just wonder, given your pronouncement In business we don’t mince words, patents are a legal monopoly. You're clearly speaking to me so as to inform me of my ignorance.

And remember, the Japanese economy was in a recessions for the past 20 years recessions…

What recession?

LOL! Dont kid your self ... walk into Best Buy or Frys... They still make PC Autos consumer and commercial exported products we here in the US envy.

Randy, I just cut and pasted the software patent answer from the legal link. I wasn't challenging you in any way.

How it's done in business has many schools of thought, what are you trying to prove to me?

Malcolm

Then please accept my apology.

Delineating quoted materials is very important in a forum like this. You can do it like TOS does, just using '---'.

Regardless, I still maintain the quoted material is flawed. Whenever I hear anyone speak for a wide diverse group like "we in business" I pretty much know it's BS. It's like saying "we in California...", or even "we on this blog...".

Randy Says:
"Just a question, what exactly do you think I do for a living? I just wonder, given your pronouncement In business we don’t mince words, patents are a legal monopoly. You’re clearly speaking to me so as to inform me of my ignorance. "

I have no idea what you do for a living and I think you carry yourself as someone confident of their point of view.

Randy since you want to argue basic details here you go: For everyone to share in if they wish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_and_patents

Don't stop there. Get to the core of software patents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate

And then we can be cynically narcissistic about using Wiki itself, relying upon Wiki as a data source to criticize using Wiki as a data source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Criticism_and_controversy

And why are we going to debate software patents?

We aren't.

I apologize. I'm just grumpy it's so freakin cold here, with an extra shot of Tam Valley fog to make me dreary.

I've quite enjoyed debating with you today, in fact. It's good to have an exchange that doesn't involve trolls or reactionaries. You are very reasonable, even if we disagree on some things.

Like I said... more people today still buy more Japanese products. All because its cheaper. You asked and I gave you answer many today dont want to hear.
Yet many of us WHO HAVE worked in SV know the facts.

Sorry to hear it. I've enjoyed our discussions. This is one of those few places that people have heated discussions and maintain their decency.

I'm calling it a day anyway. You guys all have a good night.

TOS you failing to recall how many US companies were wipped out in 1990.
Nearly 90% died out. You ask about the next thing. Chances of Next Big Thing is unknown and not factored in the housing prices. There may not be the next big thing... we are nearly 7 years out since 2000. OK where is it?

TOS said "You don’t known."

Read up on the Asian Tigers... go to Wiki

TOS talks about "higher educational systems"

Come on TOS who wants to be a GEEK and Nerd
A freaking Loser -- Goober who does not get laid.

Its easy to learn SW programming. Asia and Europe has
lots of educational system too. Much of atomic theory came
from Austrian schools. Today Europe dominates biotech.
Its alll about Global Competition.... You asked about Detroit
and I gave you facts.

TOS, Im an accountant for the past 15 years.
I know about Mfg and SW industry.
You can forget about currency manipulation thats all meaningless.
Thats not how business is being done. It has no impact at all.
Companies dont rewrite price lists every 30 seconds because
the dollar is strong or weak. It not done that way.

Randy H Says:

> currently, the patent system is 99% broken,
> in my opinion.

I agree…

Then Different Sean Says:

> Just before Christmas Microsoft was granted
> a patent for online bill payment

And bruceb Says:

> if people who know where bathrooms and kitchens
> are located when walking clients thru a home want
> to call themselves professionals, its not a big deal.

Since the patent system has problems I might as well try and make some money off it.

Maybe I can patent “e-mailing photos of cars” or even “walking to the bathroom” (just think of the royalties)…

Randy H Says:

> Delineating quoted materials is very important in a
> forum like this. You can do it like TOS does, just using ‘—’.

It’s also nice to mention the author (or source) of the quote… I often get confused reading posts from TOS (and other confused posters) who just quote the “time” of a quote…