patrick.net

richwicks says

Now if Nuland wasn't such a stupid fucking whore, she would have denied the conversation, that would have been plausible at least. But she didn't.

OMG. Is that enlightenment coming through? Nah, doubt it.

Indeed. She should've foreseen into what kind of message the propaganda machine will turn this conversation. She didn't, that whore, and (I can only assume) didn't make much of it.

But how is that timeline check going? Have you already discovered that Maidan started in 2013? Have you found answers to that inconvenient "how come that's the best they have" question? Or waiting for instructions?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Now if Nuland wasn't such a stupid fucking whore, she would have denied the conversation, that would have been plausible at least. But she didn't.

OMG. Is that enlightenment coming through? Nah, doubt it.

?

mostly reader says

Indeed. She should've foreseen into what kind of message the propaganda machine will turn this conversation. She didn't, that whore, and (I can only assume) didn't make much of it.

You use "propaganda machine" in the way our government uses "insurrection" or "white supremacist".

I'm tired of newspeak, and people, like you, who commonly use this sort of tactic, simply can't be taken seriously. We've had the audio for nearly a decade.

mostly reader says

But how is that timeline check going? Have you already discovered that Maidan started in 2013?

It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.

I know exactly how my government overthrows other governments. I know what they did in Operation Ajax and PBSuccess. I know how they fund astroturf campaigns, and you do as well, since they did it in the United States with Antifa and BLM. It took our intelligence agencies 4 years to toss out Trump. How long did they work in Ukraine? I don't know, but Nuland said they pumped in 5 billion dollars for the effort.

If the coup was not successful, and it failed, the audio recording is still important because it shows US intervention in Ukraine something we shouldn't be fucking doing. Self determination IS I believe a human right, our nation, or rather our intelligence agencies, subvert that.

The reason Hunter Biden, a cokehead loser, is on the BOD of Burisma, is just because of US government intervention and blatant corruption. Who isn't fed up with this kind of shit? You're not apparently.

If our pederast pervert president Biden was LEGITIMATELY elected, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but he wasn't. He was installed by our intelligence agencies and WE have no right to self determination. Who is our enemy? Well, I'd put Russia pretty far down that list. They aren't fucking with our elections, but that lie can stand because our traitorous intelligence agencies have deemed it to be so.

A gestapo runs our country, we don't. You're a promoter of that gestapo, because you're either a coward or an idiot. Doesn't particularly matter which it is. Even the traitors that work in the intelligence agencies will be fucked by that machine in time. They're just useful idiots.

richwicks says

It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.

It's super relevant. It destroys your narrative. Which you would've known if you read and comprehended my post.

You really should change your handle to "mostly writer".

mostly reader says

richwicks says

It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.

It's super relevant. Which you would've known if you read and comprehended my post.

The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

When has that been part of the job description of the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs?

What right does the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs have to pick a new leader in Ukraine?

Now that she is Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs she's explaining why there are US biological research labs in Ukraine. What are they doing in Ukraine?

It's astounding. What a fucking snake she is.

mostly reader says

You really should change your handle to "mostly writer".

No, I prefer to use my real name when voicing my political dissent.

mostly reader says

I addressed the Noland/Yanukovytch comment in a post more fitting for this thread. https://patrick.net/post/1344073&offset=40#comment-1826473 But duly noted that you 1) compare "dangling of EU Carrots and US aid" to first hybrid war and then invasion 2) assert nonetheless that Russia is a trustworthy partner.

Not worth answering. It's very clear to everybody who isn't a Faux Skeptic that the US and Soros NGOs were deeply involved in organizing the Maidan Protests.

The support for the Maidan Protesters was present from day one when the US warned the then-Ukrainian government to be very careful with the protesters, basically treat them the way Blue Cities treated Antifa/BLM rioters, to let them run riot no matter what.

This is like saying "Mossadegh wasn't overthrown with CIA help, it was totally organic and domestic, yeah, that's the ticket."

richwicks says

The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

Of course she was. And that's a truth. And I further explained how you turned it into a lie. Omission here, omission there.. it looks like you know the drill.

Anyways, that was fun. Hope it helps someone.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

Of course she was. And that's a truth. And I further explained how you turned it into a lie. Omission here, omission there.. it looks like you know the drill.

Again, this is why I don't treat you seriously.

The Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

She had no business doing this. Obviously. This is some fucking insane level of fuckery of our government, and you just ignore it. Could you imagine if a Russian diplomat of ANY rank was openly discussing in a conversation who the next leader of the United States was going to be just prior to having the president ousted and then 3 weeks later, that's who the next "president" was?

I keep going back to this as if it's a big fucking deal, because it's a very big fucking deal. Ukraine is at war because of this. Think this asshole is really in charge of anything?



Do you?

A US puppet has been installed in a nation where Russia has been twice attacked before, and who is hosting biological "research" labs.

What
the
fuck??

If say, what happened in Ukraine happened in Mexico and Russia was behind it, you'd be singing and entirely different tune. What if Russia had biological "research" labs in Mexico?

And let's say the US went to war with Mexico over this bullshit, and the Russian puppet leader there refused to stand down, refused to surrender, and encouraged his civilian population to fight with improvised weapons? Zelenskyy is a fucking monster who is INTENTIONALLY getting people killed.

What would you be saying about this? I'd be saying the same thing as I am now

It's just crazy. You're crazy.

richwicks says

I'm just kind of ignoring you... (followed by hundreds of lines of text and recycling the same points)

This is not what "ignoring" looks like.

"mostly writer". Seriously. Very fitting.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I'm just kind of ignoring you... (followed by hundreds of lines of text and recycling the same points)

This is not what "ignoring" looks like.

Yeah, I was being sloppy in my writing.

What I should have said is that I do not respect your thinking at all, it's not worth my time to try to explain why it's wrong, and I don't think you could possibly change any minds to your version of what I laughably would call "thinking" anyhow so there's little point in going through the effort or time to explain what is wrong about how you bizarrely draw conclusions.

Or more succinctly, I think everybody here realizes you're incorrect, and you're incapable of realizing it.

richwicks says

Yeah, I was being sloppy in my writing.

Indeed. You are also sloppy in your thinking.

richwicks says

Or more succinctly, I think everybody here realizes you're incorrect, and you're incapable of realizing it.

I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument. You haven't, you've started shatting bricks instead. You probably understand that you've been owned. You should also realize that your argumentum ad populum just made you look like a FB snowflake.

https://markcrispinmiller.substack.com/p/what-we-all-need-to-know-about-the?s=r&source=patrick.net

What we all need to know about the propaganda coming from "Ukraine"
More on the fake atrocities, a (real) false flag attack, and those parts of the story that the propaganda is NOT telling us

Mark Crispin Miller

A rundown of the many fake atrocities that millions think were actually committed by the Russians in Ukraine:
https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/ukraine/?source=patrick.net

An eyewitness of a Ukrainian false flag attack tells what she saw:
https://21stcenturywire.com/2022/03/12/witness-exposes-ukrainian-army-false-flag-operation-in-donbass/?source=patrick.net

“The White House is outsourcing propaganda,” by “briefing” TikTok stars about “Ukraine”:
https://t.me/realCRP/3605?source=patrick.net

For a fuller picture of the current crisis:
In a talk at Yale in 2018, Vladimir Pozner offered crucial background to the US/Russia relationship, which was already at an all-time low:

A sharp take on this madness, from Vladimir Golstein, Professor of Slavic Studies at Brown University:

The Truth Barrier
Words From A Russian Professor Of Slavic Studies: Western Powers, Was It Worth It?
Just to Sum Up. So Russia gets nervous about NATO pushing into Ukraine. Fine. People should understand it, including Americans, who were ready to go to war over Cuban missile crisis. Putin organizes a real diplomatic blitzkrieg. Lavrov and Putin meet dozens of western leaders in less than a month. Yet, all he gets is a middle finger…
Read more
12 hours ago · 68 likes · 24 comments · Celia Farber
“Those people’s lives don’t matter”: On the staggering hypocrisy of the outrage over “Ukraine”:
https://content.blubrry.com/last_american_vagabond/TDWU-3-10-22-FINAL.mp3?source=patrick.net

Dilyana Gatandzhieva, Bulgarian investigative journalist, on the US bio-weapons program—an article from 2018, and a recent interview on the US bio-labs in Ukraine:
The Pentagon Bio-weapons
By Dilyana Gaytandzhieva April 29, 2018

https://archive.ph/N0IAR?source=patrick.net#selection-395.0-446.0

mostly reader says

I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument.

I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.

I think other people here can easily see the error in your position.

I can't appeal to your standards because you have no standards. That's the minimum somebody needs to have, you don't them.

richwicks says

mostly reader says

I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument.

I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.

I think other people here can easily see the error in your position.

You two, boys you’ll enjoy the convo a lot more if you take it less personal and insult each other less. Just old age advice. Patnet is a nice site, we should all learn to get along.

richwicks says

I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.

Your problem is, you can't find any error in my position either. But really, really, REALLY want to. So you try to counter by throwing more cliches into the air.

Just for your shopping convenience, comrade: https://patrick.net/post/1344073&offset=#comment-1826473

Fortwaynemobile says

You two, boys you’ll enjoy the convo a lot more if you take it less personal and insult each other less. Just old age advice. Patnet is a nice site, we should all learn to get along.

As of 02/23/2022 it got personal. Sometimes you have to call things for what they are.

mostly reader says

Your problem is, you can't find any error in my position either.

I'm just tired of talking to a brick wall. I don't think you're this obtuse. I just think you're simply dishonest.

It's sort of like this. I don't think I could convince Rachael Maddow that Russia didn't hack our election, and it's not because she's stupid, she knows she's lying. Similarly, that's how I feel about you. I don't think you actually hold the position you claim to hold. I think you're lying.

I think it's quite obvious that the US overthrew Ukraine, that the US picked the next leaders, that they were infiltrating Ukraine for a long time, that the leadership of Ukraine are all puppets of the United States, and that the US has been targeting Russia for a very long time. I think this is obvious to you, but you're lying about it.

There's a good saying I like, it is "you cannot wake a person that pretends to sleep". This is because the person isn't asleep, they are just pretending to be asleep. You, I think, pretend to be asleep, and there's no way to wake you. You will continue to lie, in every sense of the word, forever

I think people going through the tedium of this thread would come to the same conclusion I have anyhow.

You two watch Oliver Stones new documentary on Ukraine, it’s very eye opening on what went on behind the scenes. The corruption, the theft, the coups, it’s bad. People of Ukraine are fucked by their government even more than we are by Biden puppet admin.

richwicks says

I think it's quite obvious that the US overthrew Ukraine, that the US picked the next leaders, that they were infiltrating Ukraine for a long time, that the leadership of Ukraine are all puppets of the United States, and that the US has been targeting Russia for a very long time. I think this is obvious to you, but you're lying about it.

What's missing? Any attempt to counter my argument. Covering it up with BS (in hope that it disappears?)

You, per usual, resort to recycling same talking point.

richwicks says

I think people going through the tedium of this thread would come to the same conclusion I have anyhow.

Anyone, ANYONE who actually pays attention to the details of your tantrums (as I have) will notice how you substitute quantity for quality. The weakness of this MO is that you stretch yourself thin. It's just a matter of picking an arbitrary point from your laundry list and not letting you drift away. Not letting you to drift away is important: you get demolished, and then throw another point into the air. Or several. As if they are a substitute for your lack of reasoning on the prior.

Once that hypothetical "anyone" spots this pattern, demolishing you is easy. I did it once in the past, on your USS Liberty tantrum, but that's not typical of me. I'd usually just chuckle and move along.

Not this time.

Fortwaynemobile says

You two watch Oliver Stones new documentary on Ukraine, it’s very eye opening on what went on behind the scenes. The corruption, the theft, the coups, it’s bad. People of Ukraine are fucked by their government even more than we are by Biden puppet admin.

Sure. Ukraine was a pit of corruption.

Ironically, if it survives it now has best chance be become a new nation. That's how nations are made.

Russia has no such hope. It's best prospect is to be China's bitch for decades to come. Regardless of the outcome of the war.

socal2 says

Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?

This thread is supposed to be about propaganda. What's the propaganda angle in all this?

NuttBoxer says

socal2 says

Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?

This thread is supposed to be about propaganda. What's the propaganda angle in all this?

The irony here is that Russia isn't the USSR, it's NOT communist, it's had a HUGE resurgence in religion. Really, it's more like the 1950's United States than the US is.

It's the US that is going into communism. Look at how the US has changed. We have censorship now, we never had that before. Our news media is bullshit like Pravda and Izvestia was 40 years ago. Our public education is indoctrination, to such an extent we're having to pass bills so kindergarten children aren't be taught about sex. Conservatives are called traitors and domestic terrorists by our intelligence agencies.

We have sham elections, where we have doddering old half dead men being the "party leader" whose only accomplishment is to be REALLY OLD and having been in the party for 1/2 century. I'm frankly surprised he's lived this long. There's tons of rumors he has body doubles and some of them are CREDIBLE.

OUR nation is constantly at war and is expanding "the ideals" of this nation through force.

We have a nation wide surveillance system. Our government has to cut off foreign "propaganda" and news, I remember when the USSR did this.

We're the new USSR. We just went through a shut down of 2 years, where people couldn't legally attend church, but they were able to attend violent "mostly peaceful protests".

We have open corruption now, where our bullshit president has his crack head unprosecuted son selling artwork. We have open, obvious criminals who will never face prosecution because our government no longer prosecutes criminals in our political class. Political protests which are ACTUALLY non violent ends with having government agents entrap people and them put 500 people in prison with no bail and no trial date. It's been 15 months and now we are starting to have two minute hates of Putin. Every few years we have a new Hitler. Assad was Hitler, Qaddafi was Hitler, Hussein was Hitler. It's so fucking ridiculous.

How much more fucking clown world can this get?

richwicks says

The irony here is that Russia isn't the USSR, it's NOT communist, it's had a HUGE resurgence in religion. Really, it's more like the 1950's United States than the US is.

It's as if you have close ties to Russia, wink, wink.

It's more like the 1950's US all right. Except for mandatory military draft, having to carry ID papers when you go outside, COVID vaccination QR codes to get into a restaurant (Moscow), and resurgence in religion in which all the leading figures of the religion are close buddies with "team Putler". Oh, and all that poverty outside of major cities. But that's of course minor.

mostly reader says

It's more like the 1950's US all right. Except for mandatory military draft, having to carry ID papers when you go outside, vaccination QR codes to get into a restaurant (Moscow), and resurgence in religion in which all the leading figures of the religion are close buddies with "team Putler". Oh, and all that poverty outside of major cities. But that's of course minor.

We had a military draft in the 1950s, ask Elvis Presley. Or ask any draftee in the 60s and 70s.

We just came off ID Papers in many US States just to eat at a restaurant, same thing with the QR Codes. They were also over much of Europe AND Canada.

We had a President that was endorsed by Radical Far Left Preachers who screamed "GD America!!!" in blasephemous tones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-AMYos0Js

And there's tons of poverty in and outside major US Cities, along with an opioid crisis caused by Big Pharma and the Revolving Door Rubber Stamp FDA. Oxycontin, the less addictive opiate (wink, wink).

mostly reader says

It's as if you have close ties to Russia, wink, wink.

I had family trapped in Poland. I know what the fucking communists were like. We used to send them food. 1/2 of it was stolen before they received it.

Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.

And the US is FAR WORSE.

The US isn't a democratic republic anymore, it's always pushing for some stupid war, it has constant propaganda, we have the woke mafia, LGBTQ bullshit is on kids television, we just went through a fake pandemic which have national surveillance.

This was all unthinkable in 1980.

Oh, and everybody that disagrees with obvious stupid bullshit, they are Russian bots and spies! Just fucking hilarious.

> AmericanKulak

You are right! That must've been what "mostly writer" meant when he compared today's Russia to 1950's US (LOL).

Except for the poverty part. There's poverty and then there's poverty. I'm not talking about "I can't live on only the corn" type of poverty. I'm talking about "I don't have enough corn to feed my family" type of poverty.

richwicks says

Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.

You know that how? Time to disclose your connections and drop the pretense of impartial reasoning (wink, wink) I do agree with you that roaming the streets of Moscow (or St. Peterburg, or Yekaterinburg, or Vladivostok) was fun when you had dollars in your pockets. Except for those damn papers which you had to carry with you just in case.

We can compare the notes, comrade.

mostly reader says

You are right! That must've been what "mostly writer" meant when he compared today's Russia to 1950's US (LOL).

I'm sorry my examples, particularly with the military draft and several of the largest cities and states in America imposing vaccine IDs to eat in restaurants, ruined your narrative.

And yes, there is half-starved poverty in America, mostly due to the Outsourcing of Jobs, the ensuing loss of housing value and breakup and families, complicated by an Addiction wave of Oxycontin AND Synthetic Opiates, both thanks to CHYna and Revolving Door Status Quo Corporate-Government Executives and Officials. Much of it is in and around what was once vibrant Middle America, Small Cities from Binghampton to Weirton to Akron to Saginaw.

AmericanKulak says

I'm sorry my examples, particularly with the military draft and several of the largest cities and states in America imposing vaccine IDs to eat in restaurants, ruined your narrative.

That wasn't much of a narrative. But I think that they really, REALLY, ruined the "mostly writer"'s comparison between todays Russia and US back then. See, he meant it in the most Russia-friendly way. And then there you come with your clarifications. I didn't think that I'd have to explain it, but they made his comparison not quite as flattering.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.

You know that how?

I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.

Russia collapsed because it dumped all their resources into the military. The same thing will collapse the United States in time.

richwicks says

I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.

So, your knowledge of Russia today comes from your coworkers (plural). Is that your primary source? Had to confirm this because, you see, with all this confidence one could think that you are involved more directly. You also have Ukrainian coworkers I recall. Also plural. I hope that all these coworkers get along.

Do you trust them with everything that they say? What's their take on the current invasion?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.

So, your knowledge of Russia today comes from your coworkers (plural). Is that your primary source? Had to confirm this because, you see, with all this confidence one could think that you are involved more directly.

I've had a couple. I had long conversations with Arsen about our propaganda. It's almost painful for me to have to talk to most Americans, because they have NO CLUE what is going on. These last two years has been a real wakeup call to me in that I can now see and understand just how much people are controlled by US propaganda. I had neighbors that were Russian. They were expats - they basically said "I'm not free in Russia" - they were young.

I know some people long for the old days of the USSR - it depended on where you were in that society. Certainly some don't.

mostly reader says

You also have Ukrainian coworkers I recall.

No, I had a former coworker that I was friends with that became an expatriot in Ukraine. The last time I communicated with him, somebody had either hacked into his Skype account, or stolen his laptop. I think he may be dead at this point. I have completely lost contact with him.

mostly reader says

Do you trust them with everything that they say? What's their take on the current invasion?

My point of view is what they say is their opinion. I don't necessarily have to know what is true, it's just their opinion, their viewpoint but I haven't discussed it with them.

Given the amount of hysteria and programming people accept, I don't want to draw attention to the fact they are Russian and I'm in Silicon Valley, people are supposed to be smart here, but they aren't. 90% of the public are drones. Even people that TRY to understand what is going on. I have a friend that sincerely believes that the reason the US went to war in Syria was because of the civil war there, and Europe was BEGGING the US to go in to stop the conflict. He read this in the Economist, there's the Alawites and Sunni (I believe). He's an MIT graduate, and he's this naive at 55 or whatever. Because he read this in the Economist, and it's not the same stuff he hears on TV he assumes it must be correct. He COULDN'T be buying propaganda..

I was talking to my cousin, and we broke up laughing when I told him this.

I know what my country is like, I understand the foreign policy of it. The US NEVER goes to war for a "humanitarian reason" ever. I don't always know all the reasons the US goes to a particular war, but I know they always lie about it. The reason they lie, is that if we knew the truth, it would appalling.

If you think the US government isn't doing cartwheels to see Ukraine getting invaded by Russia, you are DEAD WRONG. They want an enemy, they want to restart the Cold War. The war on terror was a bullshit war, and it's unwinnable (of course, that's the best kind because it goes on forever) but it's petering out. If the public is distracted by the evil man over there, we don't pay attention to the evil men here.

To our establishment, this is just a nice distraction.

Look at how dumb people are. Suddenly they are all humanitarians and so on. When RUSSIA bombs somebody that's BAAAAAAD, but the US has been doing it for years, even lying to start the wars. They care only about what the teeeeveeee and social media tells them to care about. They can't see the hypocrisy.

All wars are horrible. What drives me crazy about this, and with you in particular, is that you keep saying stuff like "well, Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO anyhow" - well, if that's the true, that's part of the Russian PROPAGANDA to justify this war. Zelenskyy can take that way from Putin. You don't see this as a contradiction, IF Zelenskyy (or his handlers) don't want war.

The US has for 20 years, but in particular the last 5 been demonizing Russia. This was made 5 years ago:


original link

Our intelligence agencies for YEARS were directly accusing Russia, a nuclear super power, as having put in Trump to prevent him from doing ANY negotiation with Putin or have any deals or any agreements that would benefit Russia in any way. The US refuses to negotiate with Russia over ANYTHING. The Skripals weren't poisoned by the FSB, the story is ridiculous. Why the fuck are they doing this?

Don't bother switching to other topics (Intelligent Agencies, Skripals, etc.). As pointed out, this pattern of yours is well recognized and you won't be getting away with it here.

richwicks says

I have Russian coworkers today.

richwicks says

I've had a couple.

You "have" them or "you've had" them?

Your enthusiasm describing Russia today doesn't match familiarity with the subject that you chose to disclose (coworker hearsay). This is a mismatch. You are either stretching data points to fit your world view, or hiding something.

richwicks says

I don't want to draw attention to the fact they are Russian and I'm in Silicon Valley, people are supposed to be smart here, but they aren't.

This sentence doesn't make sense unless they are remote workers currently in Russia. Are they?

Your veneration of Russia can't be explained by coworker chit-chat alone. It implies either a more direct connection which you didn't mention, or a leap of judgement. Comment?

For those who say that rt.com or any Russian govt pnwed press agency is "far worse" than what the US has, you are wrong. Anybody who has to maintain an active business life and connections and thus with some exposure to "online news" or formerly deemed "business sites" such as LinkedIn knows it's as bad as Russian Pravda at the height of the cold war. Not a day goes by that some organization or expo isn't destroyed by claims of "!rayscysm!" and "!seschual harassment!" and shit is flung like goebbels would be proud of, with zero proof, by shady agent provocateurs or useful bipoczlgbtqxyz+---- wommynz tools. You'd be daft to run a small business these days which is not complete shut off from propaganda. There is no useful information anywhere in US news or business sites, it's all 100% propaganda. The one difference is that it's mostly government that writes that stuff for Russia while the US is using the tactics of employing crisis actors and agent provocateurs and big tech to do their dirty deeds. How do you think we got as far with codified racial discrimination (against asians and whites mostly) as we have today and edicts that force experimental deadly gene "therapies" into adults and kids bodies under threat of job loss? How many people have died from the forced jabs and even far more from actively withholding tried and proven antiviral and anti inflammatory drugs? 100s of thousands at the minimum! Where is the outrage? Please get a grip and start cleaning up your own country before !muh Russia! The new racists and anti-vaxxers du jour are Russian born citizens and those who dare to have a different opinion or question the narrative! Down with Emmanuel Goldstein! Hate!

mell says

For those who say that rt.com or any Russian govt pnwed press agency is "far worse" than what the US has, you are wrong.

Are you too comparing two variables while knowing only one of them?

mostly reader says

mell says

For those who say that rt.com or any Russian govt pnwed press agency is "far worse" than what the US has, you are wrong.

Are you too comparing two variables while knowing only one of them?

Just compare what the msm is claiming that Russian state sponsored "disinformation" is saying, take it at face value if you must, then compare it to what the msm and govt are saying here in the US about domestic and foreign issues. There is no difference. There isn't even any color or divide in the msm media on the big items. Maybe tucker, some say controlled opposition, who knows. But the rest march unisono to the drumbeat of the government orders and their big tech handlers. Ivermectin is dangerous horse paste but the "jabs" and ventilators save lives? Excuse me? Inflation is caused by putler and not by increasing the money supply via government spending?! Oil is expensive because of putler and not because we killed all pipelines and shoved "green energy" down people's throats?! Not a iota of a difference.

> mell

I'll be more specific. Couple of differences between US-style propaganda and it's Russian counterpart came to mind right away.

When US propaganda lies, they usually do it using one of the finer manipulation techniques. Such as getting things out of context, or lying by omission. I kinda went over that here - https://patrick.net/post/1344073&offset=40#comment-1826473 - with illustration on how "mostly writer" took a true fact and used it to create a lie. Same thing I observe in US-based propaganda: there's usually a true fact in the message, which then gets distorted into something different.

Russians are more flexible. They may just create a fake and run with it. Few popular ones that come to mind are "a little boy crucified by Ukro Nazis", "each UkroNazi was promised two slaves", "they killed all the bullfinches because bullfinches have red on their chests", etc, etc, etc. To be clear: I'm not making this up. This is what was actually discussed in Russian news and talk shows. The bigger lie, and the more visual it is, the better. Goebbels level. Then they take this fake and literally hammer it down people's heads by repeating it over and over. Over and over. Over and over. Over and over.

Then, there's quantity. They'd create many. Different people resonate to different messages. Something will stick.

Then, they use multiple channels much more efficiently than US propaganda does. Example: they control few notorious performers and artists, and push message through them. Not unsimilar to what Hollywood does, but more directly and on a different level yet again.

Example: there's this arguably most popular Russian band, "Leningrad". The leader of the band Shnurov is connected and has dipped into politics. He just created a new clip. The point of the clip is that Russians are now treated in Europe the same way as Jews in Germany in 1940. I.e. that there are "No Dogs and Russians" signs (that's literally what the song says), and that Russians must wear id-patches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIjDxbAZeM&source=patrick.net

Indoctrination in education - similar. Different kind of indoctrination and more aggressive, more powerful techniques.

I believe that they study propaganda techniques much better than we in US do.

I don't mind criticism of propaganda in US. I mind the comparison of which you have an opinion without knowing the other part.

mostly reader says

Example: there's this arguably most popular Russian band, "Leningrad". The leader of the band Shnurov is connected and has dipped into politics. He just created a new clip. The point of the clip is that Russians are now treated in Europe the same way as Jews in Germany in 1940. I.e. that there are "No Dogs and Russians" signs (that's literally what the song says), and that Russians must wear id-patches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIjDxbAZeM&source=patrick.net

Russians have had problems in the Baltic, including in areas where they are the majority or plurality over language and being put the on the bottom of civil civil jobs, reverse discrimination. This is for people who were not only born and raised in the Baltics, but their parents and perhaps grandparents as well. Japan with Korean/half-Korean level.

Facebook has allowed calls for violence against generic "Russians", something they (and the rest of the Media) not only did not do for Arabs during the GWOT but actively discouraged it. Same way they lie about Anti-Asian violence - a friend in NYC told me they ad they run is a Fat White Dude harassing an old Asian lady, we all know the Fat White Dude is happy to find a "Nike" Shoe for $15 in China Town or get his #7 with Egg Rolls instead of the Wonton Soup, and that the assaulter of Asians is a bit "Darker". That's part of propaganda.

> mell

mostly reader says

I.e. that there are "No Dogs and Russians" signs (that's literally what the song says), and that Russians must wear id-patches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIjDxbAZeM&source=patrick.net

I just clicked on my own link to verify something and noticed that the clip has English subtitles. Watch it! It's worth it. Just so you get vague idea about propaganda Russian style.