patrick.net

It was never about the money, it was about appeasement and pandering.

The wall was never going to be an effective means of stopping illegal immigration.

The effective way is to imprison all employers of illegals in the US.

No fine, but mandatory prison time.

That, however, would offend political donors who make a lot of money from illegal labor at the expense of US citizens.

Patrick says

The wall was never going to be an effective means of stopping illegal immigration

Still better than the shitshow we're watching now.

I think a wall would help, but it would be far better to remove the motive to employ illegals.

"Wall" without enforcement is more of a symbolic that even Trump knows it. Like Patrick mentioned 'imprison all employers of illegals' is the only effective way to stop it with/out the "wall".

Patrick says

I think a wall would help, but it would be far better to remove the motive to employ illegals.

Like any difficult problem involving millions (and potentially billions) of people, you advance multiple remedies simultaneously with the expectation that the remedies are complementary to each other even if no single action is a complete remedy on its own...
• seatbelts and crumple zones and better brakes and better headlights and better tires and uniform bumper height codes
• smoke detectors and non-combustible building materials and fire doors and occupant evacuation paths
•promoting healthy body weight and social distancing and stepping up hospital readiness and masks and drugs and disease screening at the borders
etc.

A "wall" won't ever be completely effective, but it can give disproportionately more benefit compared to the cost. A border wall is like locking all the windows and doors of a house: it slows the intruders down a little bit (increasing detection) and it serves as a line in the sand... you climb through my window and you should expect to be met by 27 pellets of #4 buckshot.

Patrick says

The wall was never going to be an effective means of stopping illegal immigration.

The effective way is to imprison all employers of illegals in the US.

That's been the main argument against the wall all along. It can be defeated with a $50 off brand recip saw or low tech ropes and ladders. Proof of the effectiveness of lack of jobs at stopping immigration and motivating illegal immigrants to move back South came during the great recession. The wall was never anything but a symbol with a high price tag/opportunity cost.

We could have been stopping illegal immigration ALL ALONG, using laws, procedures, personnel, and equipment already in place, owned and paid for, AND IT WOULD BE REVENUE POSITIVE. Enforce the laws we ALREADY HAVE and fine employers for the economic treason of diverting jobs from their community and country in the name of personal gain. As SunnyvaleCA said, we COULD have been doing everything else AND enforcing the laws.

Instead, America's immigration and employment policies are like a giant thematic apperception test. People interpret the elements of it according to their personal interests and biases, and project upon it the idealistic form they wish it was, without ever checking whether these elements are even functioning as advertised. While everyone is debating and defending and supporting the immigration system they WISH America had, the one we ACTUALLY have continues to work against us rank and file Americans while benefitting a small number of elites in a zero sum manner.

Automan Empire says

Enforce the laws we ALREADY HAVE and fine employers for the economic treason of diverting jobs from their community and country in the name of personal gain.

If you want the ugly truth of it, if laws were simply enforced, we really wouldn't need Congress at all.

You want to break up big tech? Well, enforce anti-trust.
You want to have fair elections? Enforce RICO.
Want equal enforcement of the law? RICO again. I mean, most of the intelligence agencies would be in jail, but... That's worth it, easily.

Well, that cleans up half of the bullshit actually.

Good point. Don't we have enough laws already?

Maybe we actually have too many laws. Just not good enough enforcement.

Automan Empire says

Patrick says

The wall was never going to be an effective means of stopping illegal immigration.

The effective way is to imprison all employers of illegals in the US.

That's been the main argument against the wall all along. It can be defeated with a $50 off brand recip saw or low tech ropes and ladders. Proof of the effectiveness of lack of jobs at stopping immigration and motivating illegal immigrants to move back South came during the great recession. The wall was never anything but a symbol with a high price tag/opportunity cost.

We could have been stopping illegal immigration ALL ALONG, using laws, procedures, personnel, and equipment already in place, owned and paid for, AND IT WOULD BE REVENUE POSITIVE. Enforce the laws we ALREADY HAVE and fine employers for the economic treason of diverting jobs from their community and country in the name of personal gain. As Sunnyv...

Disagree on the effectiveness. There are/were plenty of walls that have been and still are in use that were brutally effective. If walls were ineffective nations would have stopped building them long ago.

The same RINOs who expressed concern for Wall funding over the past decade or so, exaggerating it to $20B, are going to vote for trillions in "Infrastructure" spending and raising the debt ceiling trillions more.

mell says

Disagree on the effectiveness. There are/were plenty of walls that have been and still are in use that were brutally effective. If walls were ineffective nations would have stopped building them long ago.

Look at the dam the fucks are using to stroll back and forth across the border: even a 20' long and 10' high piece of smooth steel wall in the middle of it would put the kibosh on that fun activity. Could they swim instead? Sure. Would it slow them down considerably? Absolutely. There won't be going for Mexican takeouts 3 times per day for sure. So we might have 3K of them instead of 15K under that bridge.

The fallacy of "it's not perfect therefore it doesn't work at all" should be put to rest.

I'm not anti-wall, I'm just saying that the wall has to be far less effective than imprisoning all employers of illegals.

Patrick says

I'm not anti-wall, I'm just saying that the wall has to be far less effective than imprisoning all employers of illegals.

Nowadays they don't need to be employed..

komputodo says

Patrick says

I'm not anti-wall, I'm just saying that the wall has to be far less effective than imprisoning all employers of illegals.

Nowadays they don't need to be employed..

Yep, plenty of free shit to go around. Especially in places like California. I doubt Gavin checked immigration status of the hobos he's put into SF hotels for $8K a pop with 3 square meals, booze and drugs on the house. Beats living in shithole like Haiti all day any day.

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/dhs-spends-half-million-on-biden-beach-house-fence/

DHS Spends Half a Million on Wall Around Biden’s Beach House

Patrick says

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/dhs-spends-half-million-on-biden-beach-house-fence/

DHS Spends Half a Million on Wall Around Biden’s Beach House

Not a bridge? Weird.