patrick.net

marcus says

Patrick says

Question: Why would the PM of Israel thank India for chloroquine shipments if it were useless?

Because it's a part of one of the most promising experimental stacks of medications doctors are experimenting with throwing at this very frightening virus.

It’s not “very frightening”, or at least ought not be.


People are, however, quite hysterical. I wanna punch women that fear their kids will die from China virus in the baby maker. Their crotch goblins probably won’t get it, if they do get it they probably won’t get sick, and they certainly will not die.

:
"It’s not “very frightening”, or at least ought not be."

Perhaps not if you're only thinking of yourself, and you're not old. That's not what I meant.

marcus says

:
"It’s not “very frightening”, or at least ought not be."

Perhaps not if you're only thinking of yourself, and you're not old. That's not what I meant.

Can't the old think for themselves and just stay home? And the young avoid them? Is this really all that complicated? #NO

WookieMan says

marcus says

:
"It’s not “very frightening”, or at least ought not be."

Perhaps not if you're only thinking of yourself, and you're not old. That's not what I meant.

Can't the old think for themselves and just stay home? And the young avoid them? Is this really all that complicated? #NO

Correct. Old people and those with compromised health should stay the fuck at home.

No they can't.

WookieMan says

Can't the old think for themselves

http://noisyroom.net/blog/2020/04/11/hydroxychloroquine-cocktails-how-many-anecdotes-does-it-take-to-change-a-light-bulb-dr-fauci/comment-page-1/

We have plenty of people around the world who have had to be admitted into hospitals, ICU’s, put on ventilators and died. We have a lot of information about the risk factors associated with age and underlying conditions. If a drug is anything more than just slightly effective, all we have to do is statistically compare the outcomes of people getting the drug to the outcomes we have seen based on age and underlying conditions.

That is what front line doctors are doing and they are reporting that there is clear and, sometimes, profound clinical improvement in many, many patients, especially when this combination of medicines is administered earlier rather than later. Some of these are highly respected, practicing infectious disease experts. And we’ve had decades of experience in prescribing these drugs so there is no uncertainty as to their safety.

Patrick says

profound clinical improvement in many, many patients, especially when this combination of medicines is administered earlier rather than later.

But if it's ealrier, what pecentage would be getting better anyway ?

Patrick says

all we have to do is statistically compare the outcomes

Yeah, that's all. But if you understand statistics you know that say, if going with standard treatments, 5% die, One sample of 100 where 1 or 2 or 3 die or one sample of 100 where 7 or 8 die is not conclusive at all, in fact it would be somewhat expected. Certainly a doctor with 20 patients that are all treated early and get better, doesn't prove nearly as much as you might think it does.

But we're dealing with something closer to 2% of symptomatic people die. This means that about 40% of the time you do a sample of 100 your going to get 1 or less dying. That's with whatever standard treatments.

It would take a lot of double blind samples of 100 to start knowing if it works. But they think it might, so who wants to be in a control group ? They're just going to use it until they have something better. But don't expect news that it work great, unless we start to see the death rate dropping faster than the leading drop in new cases.

Actually that would be the best indicator if it's working. I think it's safe to assume a lot of doctors are using it.

So, who picks the people that are gonna be the test subjects that don't get the treatment?

The new NPR/CNN/NYT catchphrase for HCQ is "Unproven Drug".

LOL, the butthurt that the big Trump Killing Virus that would generate panic and billions in BigPharma profits, laid low by a $10 combination of two ancient generics

Is there somewhere we can get reliable statistics on the course of the disease in thousands of patients and what they were treated with at what stage?

It's insane to tell people who could die that they have to wait a year for a double-blind test with well-known drugs generally considered safe for mass use for decades now.

And it's unnecessary. We just need to analyze the existing statistics, if we can find them.

Liberals be all like glad that Fauci says a drug they know works based on the evidence of Doctor's testimonial they've seen. Because they don't want Trump to get credit for saving the world.

Same Liberal when he or his wife gets it, they'll go all Denzel Washington on the Emergency room lobby, until someone brought him some damn Trump Pills.

ThreeBays says

We know that at very best this drug will have a very mild effect on changing the course of the disease, if it has any effect at all. That's what the data shows so far. And not without adverse consequence. It's irresponsible to promote this drug at this time. Quack drug.

That’s your very uninformed and wrong opinion but I guess you’re entitled to it. I take note that you provided absolutely no justification for said crappy opinion.
Just naked TDS.

For those that believe this drug or drug combo is a "cure" I would suggest looking into how anti-viral drugs work. There is a tiny tiny chance this drug or drug combo will prove to be an anti-viral. that would be a huge stroke of dumb luck. I would bet anyone $1000 right now that if it has any affect on covid-19 patients its not curative or in any way acts as a true anti-viral.

Look at the diseases it is approved to be used for, Malaria (a parasite) and Rheumatoid Arthritis and Lupus (auto-immune). Why out of the thousands of drugs out there did the Chinese use this one? Its a maintenance/low dose drug for RA and Lupus, what does it do? it reduces inflammation in some way with these diseases. In other words it treats the symptoms and it may possibly have some affect on Covid-19 symptoms in the the same way Tylenol reduces fever but doesn't cure the underlying disease. There is a cascade of nasty and potentially deadly symptoms that the bodies immune response to covid-19 causes. I would guess, given its proven usefulness in auto-immune disease the Chinese saw this a way of potentially treating the death causing symptoms of their patients. And it may work for that, may. No magic bullet, no cure, no preventative but possibly useful in treatment.

rdm says

For those that believe this drug or drug combo is a "cure" I would suggest looking into how anti-viral drugs work. There is a tiny tiny chance this drug or drug combo will prove to be an anti-viral. that would be a huge stroke of dumb luck. I would bet anyone $1000 right now that if it has any affect on covid-19 patients its not curative or in any way acts as a true anti-viral.

That's not the point, it alleviates the severe effects of the virus, allowing people to recover. Dosing it will a broad-spectrum antibiotic helps keep Pneumonia from arising as a secondary condition.

Aspirin and Blood Pressure meds don't eliminate Heart Disease, but they do provide breathing space to either get the person to the hospital for further treatment (Bypasses, Stints, etc.), or reduce the strain on the heart allowing for years, sometimes decades of quality living. Should we forget about Beta Blocckers because they don't cure the underlying condition by itself?

NoCoupForYou says

That's not the point, it alleviates the severe effects of the virus,

Did you read my full post? Doesn't seem like it as you are repeating basically what I said like I didnt say it.

But this drug is not just being promoted as symptom relieving drug, but as a cure and a preventative, my point is that it is very very unlikely to be either.

rdm says

NoCoupForYou says

That's not the point, it alleviates the severe effects of the virus,

Did you read my full post? Doesn't seem like it as you are repeating basically what I said like I didnt say it.

But this drug is not just being promoted as symptom relieving drug, but as a cure and a preventative, my point is that it is very very unlikely to be either.

Most anti-virals have similar mechanisms and attack a common pathway for the virus to invade/replicate. This is a symptom relieve and an aid to a cure for those that need it until the body can mount a defense or if it mounts too much defense against high initial viral load. To select the cheapest one with mass-scaling manufacturing capabilities makes perfect sense. All the other drug and vaccine are for a later stage to immunize the weak/susceptible and treat the sick. This worked perfectly well and in favor of Trump, and against those hoping for more deaths and infinite lockdowns just because orange!man!bad!

rdm says

Look at the diseases it is approved to be used for, Malaria (a parasite) and Rheumatoid Arthritis and Lupus (auto-imune).

The Virus is Harmless, read Harmless! It has no effect what so ever on 98% of the people that get it. Ask Ron Paul!
I think, Know it all Egg Heads that refuse to look at the facts, because they already fucking know it all, and oh yeah Fuck Trump!
Need to sit their ass down and shut the fuck up.
What the Virus triggers in some, not all, but some. Is an auto immune response to attack the lungs and or other organs.


When you've got millions of clinical cases that were left untreated, and they all follow a curve once they get to a point of no return, and a large percent of them left untreated get to the critical stage.

Then you've got multiple Doctors, with charts for proof! That have treated large populations, and none of them ever got to the same state a percent of patients get, when left untreated.

Then one can logically conclude, anecdotal or otherwise, in the face of a Political charged partisan hacks that dominate Academics and Medical Administration. They can all go suck my DICK! I'm going with the facts, that these same motherfuckers would be going by if we removed the Variable Donald J. Trump. The Man that Saved the World.

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Tenpoundbass says

Donald J. Trump. The Man that Saved the World.

No aganda with this TpB.

Newsflash for TPB, Word of mouth in the medical community is 10000 times more powerful than what Trump says works or what the people with critical thinking skills say about questioning it.

If it works as you say, a lot of doctors will jump on board. We should see an awesome decrease in deaths, far outpacing the decrease in new cases. Doctors are open minded, but at the same time, they aren't gullible idiots. They can't afford to be. Well see.

marcus says

Tenpoundbass says

Donald J. Trump. The Man that Saved the World.

You can say that again!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/dr-harvey-risch-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-and-other-therapeutics-highly-effective-in-early-covid-treatment_4131804.html

Dr. Harvey Risch: Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, and Other Therapeutics Highly Effective in Early COVID Treatment

original link
/

Dr Zelenko Exposes How Dr Rick Bright'S Very Bad Move Sabotaged Early Covid Treatment Killing Masses

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69?source=patrick.net

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
Martin J Vincent, Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah & Stuart T Nichol
Virology Journal volume 2, Article number: 69 (2005)

And HCQ is even better, having the same efficacy but being even milder on the patient.

https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/rapid-censorship-of-highly-positive?source=patrick.net

Rapid Censorship of Highly Positive Hydroxychloroquine Research Chart