Maybe it is climate change, but damn, no worries about California drought for years to come
invite response
2019 Feb 28, 7:52pm 4,706 views 63 comments
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16
anonymous
2019 Mar 1, 12:56pm
No we can't make all the water we need. The public will not be willing to pay for it.
Then there is the small problem of running a DeSal plant on the Great Plains or figuring out some other cost effective method to get the water up there and no a pipeline won't work unless there is a pump station and power plant every few hundred miles or so.
DeSal does not nothing to replenish the ground water tables of which everyone and everything want to use including the fracking industry which is supposed to keep us energy independent - (it isn't, but that is for another thread)
Then there is that pesky problem of what to do with the runoff from using underground water to irrigate fields. The runoff that leaves the fields totally uselss - for millennia and then some .
Then there is the small problem of running a DeSal plant on the Great Plains or figuring out some other cost effective method to get the water up there and no a pipeline won't work unless there is a pump station and power plant every few hundred miles or so.
DeSal does not nothing to replenish the ground water tables of which everyone and everything want to use including the fracking industry which is supposed to keep us energy independent - (it isn't, but that is for another thread)
Then there is that pesky problem of what to do with the runoff from using underground water to irrigate fields. The runoff that leaves the fields totally uselss - for millennia and then some .
17
Onvacation
2019 Mar 1, 2:00pm
Onvacation
2019 Mar 1, 2:00pm
Kakistocracy says
Maybe the deep shit some people are in is because of the stupid bullshit some people do?
I have faith in humanity's ability to deal with disaster; we adapt.
I have little faith in government recognizing, much less properly preparing for, the coming disasters.
We are in deep shit but most of the population is too consumed with stupid bullshit that requires little to no thought to care or even pay attention.
Maybe the deep shit some people are in is because of the stupid bullshit some people do?
I have faith in humanity's ability to deal with disaster; we adapt.
I have little faith in government recognizing, much less properly preparing for, the coming disasters.
18
socal2
2019 Mar 1, 2:30pm
Kakistocracy says
Dude - I'm in the industry. I know a couple things about this topic.
Water is one of the lowest priced commodities around. I pay less than $3/day for basically unlimited clean water (and sewage treatment) in SoCal including watering my yard 3-4 times a week. We could double the cost and I would still be getting a deal.
We are already injecting treated wastewater into the ground to replenish aquifers and to prevent sea-water intrusion along the coasts.
We have the technology and the means to create all of the water we need. Most of SoCal was a desert before smarter people 100 years ago decided to engineer the great water works we enjoy today.
We had 18 TRILLION gallons of rain in February alone. Most of that ran off to the ocean. If the Democrat morons running California had a clue, they would have spent money building new reservoirs and retention ponds (to replenish the ground water) - but we pissed billions away on Moonbeam's super-train and union pensions.
No we can't make all the water we need. The public will not be willing to pay for it.
Then there is the small problem of running a DeSal plant on the Great Plains or figuring out some other cost effective method to get the water up there and no a pipeline won't work unless there is a pump station and power plant every few hundred miles or so.
DeSal does not nothing to replenish the ground water tables of which everyone and everything want to use including the fracking industry which is supposed to keep us energy independent - (it isn't, but that is for another thread)
Dude - I'm in the industry. I know a couple things about this topic.
Water is one of the lowest priced commodities around. I pay less than $3/day for basically unlimited clean water (and sewage treatment) in SoCal including watering my yard 3-4 times a week. We could double the cost and I would still be getting a deal.
We are already injecting treated wastewater into the ground to replenish aquifers and to prevent sea-water intrusion along the coasts.
We have the technology and the means to create all of the water we need. Most of SoCal was a desert before smarter people 100 years ago decided to engineer the great water works we enjoy today.
We had 18 TRILLION gallons of rain in February alone. Most of that ran off to the ocean. If the Democrat morons running California had a clue, they would have spent money building new reservoirs and retention ponds (to replenish the ground water) - but we pissed billions away on Moonbeam's super-train and union pensions.
19
anonymous
2019 Mar 1, 2:46pm
socal2 says
That would be Mr. Dude.
Have any input as to how much the public is willing to cough up ? They are going to pay for it and being California like most other places I am sure this would be a ballot measure.
Not talking just SoCal here which seem to be the focus of the DeSal argument.
Run the physics and economics. To pipe water any distance including uphill which is what it would take to get DeSal water from the Gulf Coast up the the Great Plains would require exactly what I said. Pumping stations every couple hundred miles along with a power plant to run the pumps. It is not cost effective - it isn't even realistic.
Same for getting that water from anywhere on the California coast into the central valley etc.
Pumping stations every couple hundred miles, or less, along with a power plant to run the pumps. It is not cost effective - it isn't even realistic.
No, the Romans didn't really make water flow up hill. The starting point was much higher than the end point so whatever small hills were in between, there was sufficient head pressure and gravity to get the water over the small hill
It this was so easy - why do they have those massive pumps with a site specific power plant to power those pumps at the end of the Central Valley right before going up over the Grapevine?
Those DeSal plants have not been built, the public has not got the bill and once they get the bill - they won't like it and enjoy those cheap rates while they are around. This will go away in the future as well.
Scope and scale - scope and scale - and with all those new plants that have not been built yet there is the ongoing maintenance etc. which never goes down just for starters.
Not sure who the large industrial users are on the system however if they go solo and drop off the system which has been done many times before around the country, guess who gets stuck with the increase in bills from the revenue loss when a large industrial customer drops off the system.
Dude - I'm in the industry. I know a couple things about this topic.
Water is one of the lowest priced commodities around. I pay less than $3/day for basically unlimited clean water (and sewage treatment) in SoCal including watering my yard 3-4 times a week. We could double the cost and I would still be getting a deal.
That would be Mr. Dude.
Have any input as to how much the public is willing to cough up ? They are going to pay for it and being California like most other places I am sure this would be a ballot measure.
Not talking just SoCal here which seem to be the focus of the DeSal argument.
Run the physics and economics. To pipe water any distance including uphill which is what it would take to get DeSal water from the Gulf Coast up the the Great Plains would require exactly what I said. Pumping stations every couple hundred miles along with a power plant to run the pumps. It is not cost effective - it isn't even realistic.
Same for getting that water from anywhere on the California coast into the central valley etc.
Pumping stations every couple hundred miles, or less, along with a power plant to run the pumps. It is not cost effective - it isn't even realistic.
No, the Romans didn't really make water flow up hill. The starting point was much higher than the end point so whatever small hills were in between, there was sufficient head pressure and gravity to get the water over the small hill
It this was so easy - why do they have those massive pumps with a site specific power plant to power those pumps at the end of the Central Valley right before going up over the Grapevine?
Those DeSal plants have not been built, the public has not got the bill and once they get the bill - they won't like it and enjoy those cheap rates while they are around. This will go away in the future as well.
Scope and scale - scope and scale - and with all those new plants that have not been built yet there is the ongoing maintenance etc. which never goes down just for starters.
Not sure who the large industrial users are on the system however if they go solo and drop off the system which has been done many times before around the country, guess who gets stuck with the increase in bills from the revenue loss when a large industrial customer drops off the system.
20
socal2
2019 Mar 1, 3:38pm
Kakistocracy says
California is really the only place in the US that I am arguing for desal. It is not really needed east of the Rockies since they aren't under constant drought pressure. California can pretty much grow the nation's (and much of the world's) food in the central valley as long as we have water. Most parts of the world struggle to have 1 good growing season. California can have 3 growing seasons in a good year if water is available.
Kakistocracy says
It's not that hard. They just build a big pipeline from the coastal plant to tie into the EXISTING water distribution system. All of the pumps, pipes and canals are already there, built years ago. My company did some instrumentation work on the desal plant in Carlsbad, CA and the connecting pipe was just 10 miles long.
Not talking just SoCal here which seem to be the focus of the DeSal argument.
California is really the only place in the US that I am arguing for desal. It is not really needed east of the Rockies since they aren't under constant drought pressure. California can pretty much grow the nation's (and much of the world's) food in the central valley as long as we have water. Most parts of the world struggle to have 1 good growing season. California can have 3 growing seasons in a good year if water is available.
Kakistocracy says
Pumping stations every couple hundred miles, or less, along with a power plant to run the pumps. It is not cost effective - it isn't even realistic.
It's not that hard. They just build a big pipeline from the coastal plant to tie into the EXISTING water distribution system. All of the pumps, pipes and canals are already there, built years ago. My company did some instrumentation work on the desal plant in Carlsbad, CA and the connecting pipe was just 10 miles long.
21
Shaman
2019 Mar 1, 3:45pm
Shaman
2019 Mar 1, 3:45pm
More rain on the way this weekend. And next week as well.
I just don’t know how we will survive these drought conditions!
I’m doing my part though. I haven’t turned on my sprinklers in almost three months now!
I just don’t know how we will survive these drought conditions!
I’m doing my part though. I haven’t turned on my sprinklers in almost three months now!
23
anonymous
2019 Mar 1, 7:16pm
socal2 says
No - the Central Valley can't grow all of the nation's food, let alone surplus to feed the world. Vegetables, fruits and nuts are one thing , what about the wheat, oats, soybeans, corn, etc. ?
socal2 says
Yes - it is that hard. What size is the pipe to be built ? What about the pumps needed to push that water into the existing infrastructure - are they in place ?
Need to go back and look at what is involved (physics) to push water 10 miles up an incline thru say a 36 inch or larger pipe.
Has the weight of a cubic foot of water been taken into account - the shit ain't light.
At 70 degrees Fahrenheit, one cubic foot of water weighs approximately 62.30 pounds. Keep in mind, however, that the density of water, and thus its weight by volume, fluctuates based on its temperature. Water that is warmer than 70 F weighs less, while water that is cooler than 70 F weighs more.
Nothing is ever as easy as it appears.
California can pretty much grow the nation's (and much of the world's) food in the central valley as long as we have water. Most parts of the world struggle to have 1 good growing season. California can have 3 growing seasons in a good year if water is available.
No - the Central Valley can't grow all of the nation's food, let alone surplus to feed the world. Vegetables, fruits and nuts are one thing , what about the wheat, oats, soybeans, corn, etc. ?
socal2 says
It's not that hard. They just build a big pipeline from the coastal plant to tie into the EXISTING water distribution system. All of the pumps, pipes and canals are already there, built years ago. My company did some instrumentation work on the desal plant in Carlsbad, CA and the connecting pipe was just 10 miles long.
Yes - it is that hard. What size is the pipe to be built ? What about the pumps needed to push that water into the existing infrastructure - are they in place ?
Need to go back and look at what is involved (physics) to push water 10 miles up an incline thru say a 36 inch or larger pipe.
Has the weight of a cubic foot of water been taken into account - the shit ain't light.
At 70 degrees Fahrenheit, one cubic foot of water weighs approximately 62.30 pounds. Keep in mind, however, that the density of water, and thus its weight by volume, fluctuates based on its temperature. Water that is warmer than 70 F weighs less, while water that is cooler than 70 F weighs more.
Nothing is ever as easy as it appears.
24
anonymous
2019 Mar 1, 7:19pm
socal2 says
Scope and scale - scope and scale - not enough to replace what is being drawn out at a faster rate.
We are already injecting treated wastewater into the ground to replenish aquifers and to prevent sea-water intrusion along the coasts.
Scope and scale - scope and scale - not enough to replace what is being drawn out at a faster rate.
25
anonymous
2019 Mar 1, 7:27pm
As for the no drought problem in the Great Plains...and do not forget about the Ogallala Aquifer, parts of it are already dry.
By 2050, the American Southwest and Great Plains will experience a megadrought. The drought will last 50 years, according to scientists at Cornell University. It will be similar to droughts that occurred in the region during the 12th and 13th centuries,
Irrigation uses 41% of the state's water supply. In 2014, irrigation costs resulted in higher prices for fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. Fruit prices rose 4.8%.
The California drought cost the state an estimated $2.2 billion in 2016. Almost 17,000 farmers lost their jobs in 2014.
A 2017 study found that drought and other climate change impacts will make half of California's Central Valley no longer suitable for growing crops like apricots, peaches, plums and walnuts by 2150. That will grow to 90% by 2100.
https://www.thebalance.com/drought-definition-effects-examples-and-solutions-4157896
Without conservation efforts, a critical water source will soon go dry - Ogallala Aquifer
Every summer the US Central Plains go dry, leading farmers to tap into groundwater to irrigate sorghum, soy, cotton, wheat, and corn, and maintain large herds of cattle and hogs. As the heat rises, anxious irrigators gather to discuss whether and how they should adopt more stringent conservation measures.
They know that if they do not conserve, the Ogallala Aquifer, the source of their prosperity, will go dry. The Ogallala, also known as the High Plains Aquifer, is one of the largest underground freshwater sources in the world. It underlies an estimated 174,000 square miles of the Central Plains and holds as much water as Lake Huron. It irrigates portions of eight states, from Wyoming, South Dakota, and Nebraska in the North to Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas in the South.
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/one-largest-aquifers-world-disappearing-because-farmers
Tapping unsustainable groundwater stores for agricultural production in the High Plains Aquifer of Kansas, projections to 2110
Groundwater provides a reliable tap to sustain agricultural production, yet persistent aquifer depletion threatens future sustainability.
The High Plains Aquifer supplies 30% of the nation’s irrigated groundwater, and the Kansas portion supports the congressional district with the highest market value for agriculture in the nation. We project groundwater declines to assess when the study area might run out of water, and comprehensively forecast the impacts of reduced pumping on corn and cattle production.
So far, 30% of the groundwater has been pumped and another 39% will be depleted over the next 50 y given existing trends. Recharge supplies 15% of current pumping and would take an average of 500–1,300 y to completely refill a depleted aquifer.
Significant declines in the region’s pumping rates will occur over the next 15–20 y given current trends, yet irrigated agricultural production might increase through 2040 because of projected increases in water use efficiencies in corn production. Water use reductions of 20% today would cut agricultural production to the levels of 15–20 y ago, the time of peak agricultural production would extend to the 2070s, and production beyond 2070 would significantly exceed that projected without reduced pumping.
Scenarios evaluate incremental reductions of current pumping by 20–80%, the latter rate approaching natural recharge. Findings substantiate that saving more water today would result in increased net production due to projected future increases in crop water use efficiencies. Society has an opportunity now to make changes with tremendous implications for future sustainability and livability.
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/14/1220351110
By 2050, the American Southwest and Great Plains will experience a megadrought. The drought will last 50 years, according to scientists at Cornell University. It will be similar to droughts that occurred in the region during the 12th and 13th centuries,
Irrigation uses 41% of the state's water supply. In 2014, irrigation costs resulted in higher prices for fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. Fruit prices rose 4.8%.
The California drought cost the state an estimated $2.2 billion in 2016. Almost 17,000 farmers lost their jobs in 2014.
A 2017 study found that drought and other climate change impacts will make half of California's Central Valley no longer suitable for growing crops like apricots, peaches, plums and walnuts by 2150. That will grow to 90% by 2100.
https://www.thebalance.com/drought-definition-effects-examples-and-solutions-4157896
Without conservation efforts, a critical water source will soon go dry - Ogallala Aquifer
Every summer the US Central Plains go dry, leading farmers to tap into groundwater to irrigate sorghum, soy, cotton, wheat, and corn, and maintain large herds of cattle and hogs. As the heat rises, anxious irrigators gather to discuss whether and how they should adopt more stringent conservation measures.
They know that if they do not conserve, the Ogallala Aquifer, the source of their prosperity, will go dry. The Ogallala, also known as the High Plains Aquifer, is one of the largest underground freshwater sources in the world. It underlies an estimated 174,000 square miles of the Central Plains and holds as much water as Lake Huron. It irrigates portions of eight states, from Wyoming, South Dakota, and Nebraska in the North to Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas in the South.
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/one-largest-aquifers-world-disappearing-because-farmers
Tapping unsustainable groundwater stores for agricultural production in the High Plains Aquifer of Kansas, projections to 2110
Groundwater provides a reliable tap to sustain agricultural production, yet persistent aquifer depletion threatens future sustainability.
The High Plains Aquifer supplies 30% of the nation’s irrigated groundwater, and the Kansas portion supports the congressional district with the highest market value for agriculture in the nation. We project groundwater declines to assess when the study area might run out of water, and comprehensively forecast the impacts of reduced pumping on corn and cattle production.
So far, 30% of the groundwater has been pumped and another 39% will be depleted over the next 50 y given existing trends. Recharge supplies 15% of current pumping and would take an average of 500–1,300 y to completely refill a depleted aquifer.
Significant declines in the region’s pumping rates will occur over the next 15–20 y given current trends, yet irrigated agricultural production might increase through 2040 because of projected increases in water use efficiencies in corn production. Water use reductions of 20% today would cut agricultural production to the levels of 15–20 y ago, the time of peak agricultural production would extend to the 2070s, and production beyond 2070 would significantly exceed that projected without reduced pumping.
Scenarios evaluate incremental reductions of current pumping by 20–80%, the latter rate approaching natural recharge. Findings substantiate that saving more water today would result in increased net production due to projected future increases in crop water use efficiencies. Society has an opportunity now to make changes with tremendous implications for future sustainability and livability.
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/14/1220351110
26
socal2
2019 Mar 1, 7:57pm
Kakistocracy says
No - it's really not that hard. The pipe is only 54" in diameter and they installed it in about a year. It doesn't take that much pump energy as they can utilize gravity to push alot of the water to the existing water infrastructure.
The desalination project is nothing compared to the massive water works projects California built 100 years ago which are still in use today. Most of Southern California would be absolutely uninhabitable if we didn't redirect and transport water from Northern California through massive canals, dams, tunnels, pipes and pump stations.
Man made the desert bloom in California. Just like they did in Israel.
Humanity has no choice but to engineer solutions for our water supply and other environmental problems. It's absolutely doable and more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.
Yes - it is that hard. What size is the pipe to be built ? What about the pumps needed to push that water into the existing infrastructure - are they in place ?
No - it's really not that hard. The pipe is only 54" in diameter and they installed it in about a year. It doesn't take that much pump energy as they can utilize gravity to push alot of the water to the existing water infrastructure.
The desalination project is nothing compared to the massive water works projects California built 100 years ago which are still in use today. Most of Southern California would be absolutely uninhabitable if we didn't redirect and transport water from Northern California through massive canals, dams, tunnels, pipes and pump stations.
Man made the desert bloom in California. Just like they did in Israel.
Humanity has no choice but to engineer solutions for our water supply and other environmental problems. It's absolutely doable and more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.
27
just_passing_through
2019 Mar 1, 8:31pm
just_passing_through
2019 Mar 1, 8:31pm
socal2 says
So much easier and cheaper to air-condition the INSIDE of the buildings instead of the OUTSIDE.
more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.
So much easier and cheaper to air-condition the INSIDE of the buildings instead of the OUTSIDE.
28
just_passing_through
2019 Mar 1, 8:32pm
just_passing_through
2019 Mar 1, 8:32pm
Quigley says
No chit... What's a guy to do in SoCal these days with rain every weekend. I've finished my taxes and revamped my investment portfolio. It's movies I guess.
More rain on the way this weekend. And next week as well.
I just don’t know how we will survive these drought conditions!
I’m doing my part though. I haven’t turned on my sprinklers in almost three months now!
No chit... What's a guy to do in SoCal these days with rain every weekend. I've finished my taxes and revamped my investment portfolio. It's movies I guess.
29
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 12:59am
socal2 says
Yes - it really is that hard and by the way gravity pulls not pushes - just sayin. If it wasn't that hard, explain the need for a dedicated power plant to power the pumps to get that wonderful NorCal water over the mountains at the end of the Central Valley.
socal2 says
And grab as much as possible out of the Colorado River as well and fuck everyone else in the region - that's the true American spirit - I got mine and fuck everyone else.
socal2 says
I know this will never get read by 99% of the people following this thread however should one wish to actually learn something - try reading it. The revised edition is even better than the original with updated information.
The story of the American West is the story of a relentless quest for a precious resource: water. It is a tale of rivers diverted and dammed, of political corruption and intrigue, of billion-dollar battles over water rights, of ecological and economic disaster. In his landmark book, Cadillac Desert, Marc Reisner writes of the earliest settlers, lured by the promise of paradise, and of the ruthless tactics employed by Los Angeles politicians and business interests to ensure the city's growth. He documents the bitter rivalry between two government giants, the Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in the competition to transform the West. Based on more than a decade of research, Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden--an Eden that may only be a mirage.
This edition includes a new postscript by Lawrie Mott, a former staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, that updates Western water issues over the last two decades, including the long-term impact of climate change and how the region can prepare for the future.
socal2 says
Better work on option two - it will cost a lot less and get faster results - that would be changing society.
Last time dude, the public as evidenced on the forum is loathe to pay for anything that involves new taxes - if that changes - than society has been changed now hasn't it ?
Read the book - study physics - it's much much harder than it looks - much.
Special treat for those who have not read the book recently, if at all, their is a section added to what happens when dams are tossed into the reengineering miracle mixture like was done in Egypt.
Spiffy shit - not good shit - but shows the fallacy of man's thinking he can alter things for the good without incurring some "unintended consequences".
Something to ponder - when the Colorado river flow falls to the point it results in bullets flying and people getting killed to see who gets that water - will that be a societal change or just another day in Los Angeles and SoCal?
Same goes for the possibility of one day California becoming two separate states and NorCal starts charging by the cubic foot or ton for that water coming down to La La land via the California aqueduct.
No - it's really not that hard. The pipe is only 54" in diameter and they installed it in about a year. It doesn't take that much pump energy as they can utilize gravity to push alot of the water to the existing water infrastructure.
Yes - it really is that hard and by the way gravity pulls not pushes - just sayin. If it wasn't that hard, explain the need for a dedicated power plant to power the pumps to get that wonderful NorCal water over the mountains at the end of the Central Valley.
socal2 says
The desalination project is nothing compared to the massive water works projects California built 100 years ago which are still in use today. Most of Southern California would be absolutely uninhabitable if we didn't redirect and transport water from Northern California through massive canals, dams, tunnels, pipes and pump stations.
And grab as much as possible out of the Colorado River as well and fuck everyone else in the region - that's the true American spirit - I got mine and fuck everyone else.
socal2 says
Man made the desert bloom in California. Just like they did in Israel.
I know this will never get read by 99% of the people following this thread however should one wish to actually learn something - try reading it. The revised edition is even better than the original with updated information.
The story of the American West is the story of a relentless quest for a precious resource: water. It is a tale of rivers diverted and dammed, of political corruption and intrigue, of billion-dollar battles over water rights, of ecological and economic disaster. In his landmark book, Cadillac Desert, Marc Reisner writes of the earliest settlers, lured by the promise of paradise, and of the ruthless tactics employed by Los Angeles politicians and business interests to ensure the city's growth. He documents the bitter rivalry between two government giants, the Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in the competition to transform the West. Based on more than a decade of research, Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden--an Eden that may only be a mirage.
This edition includes a new postscript by Lawrie Mott, a former staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, that updates Western water issues over the last two decades, including the long-term impact of climate change and how the region can prepare for the future.
socal2 says
Humanity has no choice but to engineer solutions for our water supply and other environmental problems. It's absolutely doable and more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.
Better work on option two - it will cost a lot less and get faster results - that would be changing society.
Last time dude, the public as evidenced on the forum is loathe to pay for anything that involves new taxes - if that changes - than society has been changed now hasn't it ?
Read the book - study physics - it's much much harder than it looks - much.
Special treat for those who have not read the book recently, if at all, their is a section added to what happens when dams are tossed into the reengineering miracle mixture like was done in Egypt.
Spiffy shit - not good shit - but shows the fallacy of man's thinking he can alter things for the good without incurring some "unintended consequences".
Something to ponder - when the Colorado river flow falls to the point it results in bullets flying and people getting killed to see who gets that water - will that be a societal change or just another day in Los Angeles and SoCal?
Same goes for the possibility of one day California becoming two separate states and NorCal starts charging by the cubic foot or ton for that water coming down to La La land via the California aqueduct.
30
RWSGFY
2019 Mar 2, 1:07am
RWSGFY
2019 Mar 2, 1:07am
Kakistocracy says
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
I know this will never get read by 99% of the people following this thread however should one wish to actually learn something - try reading it.....
Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden--an Eden that may only be a mirage.
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
31
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 8:08am
Hugolas_Madurez says
Great book - try reading it, might learn something along the way other than posting stupid comments.
Peak oil - nothing to recommend - Peak American Empire - that is doable.
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
Great book - try reading it, might learn something along the way other than posting stupid comments.
Peak oil - nothing to recommend - Peak American Empire - that is doable.
32
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 8:13am
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 8:13am
Kakistocracy says
Speaking of stupid, hey Kaki, seems like you have a lot of time on your hands in retirement.
Enjoying going through "disliking" every one of my posts? Nice job! Feel better?
Someone has Wwaayyyy too much time on their hands....
might learn something along the way other than posting stupid comments.
Speaking of stupid, hey Kaki, seems like you have a lot of time on your hands in retirement.
Enjoying going through "disliking" every one of my posts? Nice job! Feel better?
Someone has Wwaayyyy too much time on their hands....
33
socal2
2019 Mar 2, 10:02am
Kakistocracy says
I read the book 25 years ago while getting my degree. PBS did a good documentary on it too. It's not quite the indictment you think it is. It shows at the end of the day how people were able to engineer a paradise out of inhospitable and arid terrain capable of growing majority of the world's exotic foods and sustain some of the biggest population centers in the world.
I've been doing this business for 25+ years in SoCal. Trust me, the cost of generating desal water is not the huge cost driver in the scheme of things. It is all the existing water distribution system assets (pipes, canals, dams, pumps) let alone pensions and trains to nowhere that take up the most money.
Read the book - study physics - it's much much harder than it looks - much.
I read the book 25 years ago while getting my degree. PBS did a good documentary on it too. It's not quite the indictment you think it is. It shows at the end of the day how people were able to engineer a paradise out of inhospitable and arid terrain capable of growing majority of the world's exotic foods and sustain some of the biggest population centers in the world.
I've been doing this business for 25+ years in SoCal. Trust me, the cost of generating desal water is not the huge cost driver in the scheme of things. It is all the existing water distribution system assets (pipes, canals, dams, pumps) let alone pensions and trains to nowhere that take up the most money.
34
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 10:15am
MrMagic says
Of course you know it was me without a doubt - and are able to prove your baseless allegation.
For what it is worth did give one token dislike on the comment given from Jersey just now for leveling baseless allegations which to Moi is a personal attack
Let's see the "proof" - waiting
Also in the "for what it's worth" department had Moi known it was this easy to get the respondent from Jersey wound up - Moi may have considered doing it long ago
Speaking of stupid, hey Kaki, seems like you have a lot of time on your hands in retirement.
Enjoying going through "disliking" every one of my posts? Nice job! Feel better?
Of course you know it was me without a doubt - and are able to prove your baseless allegation.
For what it is worth did give one token dislike on the comment given from Jersey just now for leveling baseless allegations which to Moi is a personal attack
Let's see the "proof" - waiting
Also in the "for what it's worth" department had Moi known it was this easy to get the respondent from Jersey wound up - Moi may have considered doing it long ago
35
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 10:21am
socal2 says
The reality is much worse.
socal2 says
Trust a trump supporter ?
Anyway congrats on the 25 years - hope you get to enjoy an early retirement and above all move out of California, life is so much better outside the Golden State - nice place to visit though.
Dealt with California for 20 years - was nice in the beginning - kind of like a blind date - then the bliss came off the affair.
Perhaps re-reading my comments - Moi said nary a peep about the DeSal plant per se, except for the small item about the taxpayers not willing/wanting to pay for it - Moi is talking about getting the water from the DeSal plant on a steady state condition over that mere 10 miles in a 59 inch pipeline.
As for the other that is preaching to the choir
Not only does the book explain how the water heist was accomplished - it also talks at length about how the state and the Central Valley is running out of water which is the more important aspect of the book.
The revised edition also talks in detail about the problems with dams that do not get any attention but which are as bad as not having enough water. There is an excellent chapter on the after effects of the Aswan Dam on the Nile River Delta
Would like to know though, how the Central Valley alone can supply the nations food considering the Central Valley supplies 8% of U.S. agricultural output (by value) and produces 1/4 of the Nation's food, including 40% of the Nation's fruits, nuts, and other table foods.
That isn't going to supply the nation let alone provide a surplus to the world.
But back to the water...going to take one hell of a lot of DeSal plants to make up the volume taken from the ground let alone replenish the water table.
•About 20% of the Nation's groundwater demand is supplied from pumping Central Valley aquifers, making it the second-most-pumped aquifer system in the U.S.
•Approximately 75% of the irrigated land in California and 17% of the Nation's irrigated land is in the Central Valley
Then there is this problem - California’s Central Valley food production found responsible for shocking amount of air pollution. What they found was that between 25 percent and 41 percent of all the nitrogen oxide emissions in the state came from farm soils where nitrogen-based fertilizers were used. It is said that the fertilizers end up simulating soil microbes that are capable of converting nitrogen, normally an essential plant nutrient, into nitrogen oxide. - courtesy of U.C. Davis
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-15-californias-central-valley-food-responsible-for-shocking-air-pollution.html
read the book 25 years ago while getting my degree. PBS did a good documentary on it too. It's not quite the indictment you think it is.
The reality is much worse.
socal2 says
I've been doing this business for 25+ years in SoCal. Trust me, the cost of generating desal water is not the huge cost driver in the scheme of things. It is all the existing water distribution system assets (pipes, canals, dams, pumps) let alone pensions and trains to nowhere that take up the most money.
Trust a trump supporter ?
Anyway congrats on the 25 years - hope you get to enjoy an early retirement and above all move out of California, life is so much better outside the Golden State - nice place to visit though.
Dealt with California for 20 years - was nice in the beginning - kind of like a blind date - then the bliss came off the affair.
Perhaps re-reading my comments - Moi said nary a peep about the DeSal plant per se, except for the small item about the taxpayers not willing/wanting to pay for it - Moi is talking about getting the water from the DeSal plant on a steady state condition over that mere 10 miles in a 59 inch pipeline.
As for the other that is preaching to the choir
Not only does the book explain how the water heist was accomplished - it also talks at length about how the state and the Central Valley is running out of water which is the more important aspect of the book.
The revised edition also talks in detail about the problems with dams that do not get any attention but which are as bad as not having enough water. There is an excellent chapter on the after effects of the Aswan Dam on the Nile River Delta
Would like to know though, how the Central Valley alone can supply the nations food considering the Central Valley supplies 8% of U.S. agricultural output (by value) and produces 1/4 of the Nation's food, including 40% of the Nation's fruits, nuts, and other table foods.
That isn't going to supply the nation let alone provide a surplus to the world.
But back to the water...going to take one hell of a lot of DeSal plants to make up the volume taken from the ground let alone replenish the water table.
•About 20% of the Nation's groundwater demand is supplied from pumping Central Valley aquifers, making it the second-most-pumped aquifer system in the U.S.
•Approximately 75% of the irrigated land in California and 17% of the Nation's irrigated land is in the Central Valley
Then there is this problem - California’s Central Valley food production found responsible for shocking amount of air pollution. What they found was that between 25 percent and 41 percent of all the nitrogen oxide emissions in the state came from farm soils where nitrogen-based fertilizers were used. It is said that the fertilizers end up simulating soil microbes that are capable of converting nitrogen, normally an essential plant nutrient, into nitrogen oxide. - courtesy of U.C. Davis
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-15-californias-central-valley-food-responsible-for-shocking-air-pollution.html
36
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 10:36am
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 10:36am
Sustainability means to reduce an individual's or society's use of the Earth's natural resources, and one's personal resources. Not solving existing problems with more problems.
Can anyone really question the tight correlation btwn population growth and energy demand?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274718268_Review_of_Fossil_Fuels_and_Future_Energy_Technologies
Can anyone really question the tight correlation btwn population growth and energy demand?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274718268_Review_of_Fossil_Fuels_and_Future_Energy_Technologies
37
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 1:00pm
socal2 says
What does that mean precisely ? "in the industry" ?
Sounds like it comes with an inherent bias towards a particular solution that may or may not be in the public's best interests but certainly is in the best interests of whatever solution is being promoted by a particular "industry".
socal2 says
It is under constant drought pressure and draining of the Ogallala Aquifer but then that would not be of interest to a particular "industry" since there is no money to be made there from a DeSal plant where it is not feasible.
Same with the sales pitch about 3 growing season, supply the nation's food.
Dude - I'm in the industry. I know a couple things about this topic.
What does that mean precisely ? "in the industry" ?
Sounds like it comes with an inherent bias towards a particular solution that may or may not be in the public's best interests but certainly is in the best interests of whatever solution is being promoted by a particular "industry".
socal2 says
It is not really needed east of the Rockies since they aren't under constant drought pressure.
It is under constant drought pressure and draining of the Ogallala Aquifer but then that would not be of interest to a particular "industry" since there is no money to be made there from a DeSal plant where it is not feasible.
Same with the sales pitch about 3 growing season, supply the nation's food.
38
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:02pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:02pm
kt1652 says
One way to fix the problem is to stop giving aid to Africa, forbid Africans to leave, and only trade raw materials with them. Any post 1800-tech they have to make for themselves. Their own aspirin, pickup trucks, blood pressure meds, anti-HIV drugs.
It'll never happen.
Maybe putting birth control in the City Water supplies of Africa as a condition of foreign aid.
Can anyone really question the tight correlation btwn population growth and energy demand?
One way to fix the problem is to stop giving aid to Africa, forbid Africans to leave, and only trade raw materials with them. Any post 1800-tech they have to make for themselves. Their own aspirin, pickup trucks, blood pressure meds, anti-HIV drugs.
It'll never happen.
Maybe putting birth control in the City Water supplies of Africa as a condition of foreign aid.
39
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 1:02pm
socal2 says
Sales pitch or best solution for the taxpayers ?
If we can create all the water we need - why is the "industry" only concerned about coastal California.
What is the solution for the great plains and other areas with no access to salt water?
No other solutions worth looking into or only ones that benefit a particular industry or company?
Sounds like a sale pitch from any one of hundreds of vendors I have met over the years.
We can desalinate all of the water we need. Sure it costs money and creates icky carbon emissions - but we already have the means to create all of the water we need. And desalination technology is getting better and better and will require less energy in the future.
Sales pitch or best solution for the taxpayers ?
If we can create all the water we need - why is the "industry" only concerned about coastal California.
What is the solution for the great plains and other areas with no access to salt water?
No other solutions worth looking into or only ones that benefit a particular industry or company?
Sounds like a sale pitch from any one of hundreds of vendors I have met over the years.
40
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:05pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:05pm
Hugolas_Madurez says
Peak Oil, Manhattan/Miami Underwater, and needing SPF 5000 to go out in the sun of 2010... the Leftist versions of Illuminati Black Helicopters.
Which reminds me, what happened to the Ozone layer that was going to be completely destroyed unless we went back to 1700s standard of living?
And don't tell me about that stupid Ozone protocol. Chinese industry and emmissions went up an order of magnitude since then.
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
Peak Oil, Manhattan/Miami Underwater, and needing SPF 5000 to go out in the sun of 2010... the Leftist versions of Illuminati Black Helicopters.
Which reminds me, what happened to the Ozone layer that was going to be completely destroyed unless we went back to 1700s standard of living?
And don't tell me about that stupid Ozone protocol. Chinese industry and emmissions went up an order of magnitude since then.
41
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:32pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 2, 1:32pm
I mean this is hilarious, folks:
If anybody thinks there isn't significantly more industrial output today...
(Chinese GDP per Capita)
Total Bullshit.
Let's see the Ozone Data from 1850 - oh, wait a minute.
Ball and a team of researchers from institutions around the world wanted to more accurately measure trends in the ozone layer. For their study, they synthesized and then analyzed multiple satellite data sets of atmospheric ozone. The data cover the tropics and mid-latitudes, from 1985 through 2016. The team found ozone in the upper stratosphere has indeed rebounded since 1998. “It’s clear it's going back up,” Ball says. “This is exactly where we’d expect to see the Montreal Protocol working its best.”
If anybody thinks there isn't significantly more industrial output today...
(Chinese GDP per Capita)
Total Bullshit.
Let's see the Ozone Data from 1850 - oh, wait a minute.
42
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 1:45pm
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 1:45pm
MisterLearnToCode says
----
'Scientific observations of the rapid thinning of the ozone layer over Antarctica from the late 1970s onward—often referred to as the “ozone hole”—catalyzed international action to discontinue the use of CFCs. In 1987, the United States joined 23 other countries and the European Union to sign the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (Montreal Protocol). This international treaty protects and restores the ozone layer by phasing out CFCs...
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/mp30_report_final_508v3.pdf
Hugolas_Madurez saysThe Montreal Protocol Strategic Ozone Protection. worldwide agreement to phase out ozone depleting refrigerants (R11, R12 and others) that were in widespread use and shift to (R22, R410A and R134A for cars) was perhaps the most successful environmental protection achievement ever. The Antarctic ozone hole has been basically healed. Sad, that something that is a more serious threat is politically unachievable today."Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
Peak Oil, Manhattan/Miami Underwater, and needing SPF 5000 to go out in the sun of 2010... the Leftist versions of Illuminati Black Helicopters.
Which reminds me, what happened to the Ozone layer that was going to be completely destroyed unless we went back to 1700s standard of living1
And don't tell me about that stupid Ozone protocol. Chinese industry and emmissions went up an order of magnitude since then.
----
'Scientific observations of the rapid thinning of the ozone layer over Antarctica from the late 1970s onward—often referred to as the “ozone hole”—catalyzed international action to discontinue the use of CFCs. In 1987, the United States joined 23 other countries and the European Union to sign the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (Montreal Protocol). This international treaty protects and restores the ozone layer by phasing out CFCs...
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/mp30_report_final_508v3.pdf
43
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:34pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:34pm
Elgatouno says
Exactly..
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.
Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?
Nah... impossible, right?
That picture is crazy, and is/was a major obstacle for high speed rail in Cali.
Exactly..
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.
Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?
Nah... impossible, right?
44
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:40pm
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:40pm
Sea water, fresh water - all the same, right?
Don't quit your day job. lol
---
'Scientists from government and academia say rising sea levels caused by climate change will bring more salt water into the Delta, the hub of California’s water-delivery network. As a result, millions of gallons of fresh water will have to be flushed through the Delta, and out into the ocean, to keep salinity from inundating the massive pumping stations near Tracy. That will leave less water available for San Joaquin Valley farmers and the 19 million Southern Californians and Bay Area residents who depend on Delta water – eventually as much as 475,000 acre-feet of water each year, enough to fill Folsom Lake halfway, according to one study by the Public Policy Institute of California.'
Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article158679214.html#storylink=cpy
Don't quit your day job. lol
---
'Scientists from government and academia say rising sea levels caused by climate change will bring more salt water into the Delta, the hub of California’s water-delivery network. As a result, millions of gallons of fresh water will have to be flushed through the Delta, and out into the ocean, to keep salinity from inundating the massive pumping stations near Tracy. That will leave less water available for San Joaquin Valley farmers and the 19 million Southern Californians and Bay Area residents who depend on Delta water – eventually as much as 475,000 acre-feet of water each year, enough to fill Folsom Lake halfway, according to one study by the Public Policy Institute of California.'
Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article158679214.html#storylink=cpy
46
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:43pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:43pm
kt1652 says
You means the ones being PAID by the government to spew that hoax?
Scientists from government and academia
You means the ones being PAID by the government to spew that hoax?
47
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:53pm
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:53pm
ha, ha, the 97% of independent climate change scientist, concensus of NASA scientist, the US military strategic planners, AAAS, ACS, AGU, AMA, AMS, U.S. National Academy of Sciences , The Geological Society of America, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ... I'm tired of typing.
Let me don my tinfoil hat.
I heard last night on AM talk show, it is the Aliens living under Antarctic ice caves that helped the Nazis, are now behind the climate change hoax.
I think I married one of them.
Let me don my tinfoil hat.
I heard last night on AM talk show, it is the Aliens living under Antarctic ice caves that helped the Nazis, are now behind the climate change hoax.
I think I married one of them.
48
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm
Elgatouno says
Where do you think Miami gets water for their increased population? Walmart?
Links, do a search of Miami and subsidence, they're all there.
I posted a bunch in a different GW hoax thread recently.
Also not sure where Miami gets it's water maybe it does pump from under it's feet or one is just pulling shit out of their ass.
Any links?
Where do you think Miami gets water for their increased population? Walmart?
Links, do a search of Miami and subsidence, they're all there.
I posted a bunch in a different GW hoax thread recently.
49
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm
kt1652 says
Dan, is that you..
Wasn't Cook the guy that claimed Manhattan would be underwater now?
oops....
ha, ha, the 97% of independent climate change scientist, concensus of NASA scientist, the US military strategic planners, AAAS, ACS, AGU, AMA, AMS, U.S. National Academy of Sciences , The Geological Society of America, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ... I'm tired of typing.
Dan, is that you..
Wasn't Cook the guy that claimed Manhattan would be underwater now?
oops....
50
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:59pm
kt1652
2019 Mar 2, 2:59pm
You paid me a great compliment. Besides, I have a full time job, can never do what Dan-the-man did and have a life.
51
anonymous
2019 Mar 2, 5:28pm
MrMagic says
Same thing is not happening in Miami - any soil subsidence would be more the result of the same type of phenomenon occurring in and around New Orleans and not from the Aquifers being emptied since they recharge so quickly.
The Biscayne Aquifer is an entirely different animal that what is in the Central Valley of California - it recharges very quickly from rain, not so in the Central Valley.
The aquifer is a composed up of mostly limestone and sandstone with some sands. The Biscayne Aquifer is a wedge shape of highly permeable limestone and less permeable sandstone in southeast Florida.
The Biscayne Aquifer is high susceptibility to contamination due to its exposure at the land surface and high permeable rates. The most common contaminate in the aquifer is saline water and chemicals carried by runoff into canals. During the wet season pesticides and fertilizers are use heavily and become susceptible to runoff. Other contaminates include landfills, septic tanks, sewage water treatment ponds and storm water disposal wells.
Where the aquifer is exposed at the surface or thin layers of soil allow the aquifer to response to rain rapidly. Rain, wetlands, canals are major part of recharge to the aquifer. During the wet season sheets of water move south towards the Everglades to recharge the aquifer.
http://academic.emporia.edu/schulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/2009/Jenkins/Harry.htm
https://www.sfwmd.gov/science-data/gw-modeling
The next link talks specially about soil subsidence and the increase in flooding (400%) since 2006 - easy to understand graphics and only one page. Soil subsidence due to the city being built on swamps - aka - New Orleans.
http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf
Older article on the Miami flooding situation from back in 2015
Part 1 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article41141856.html
Part 2 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article41416653.html
Last August -- Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/businessweek/miami-s-other-water-problem#gs.QEpwSGQr
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.
Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?
Nah... impossible, right?
Same thing is not happening in Miami - any soil subsidence would be more the result of the same type of phenomenon occurring in and around New Orleans and not from the Aquifers being emptied since they recharge so quickly.
The Biscayne Aquifer is an entirely different animal that what is in the Central Valley of California - it recharges very quickly from rain, not so in the Central Valley.
The aquifer is a composed up of mostly limestone and sandstone with some sands. The Biscayne Aquifer is a wedge shape of highly permeable limestone and less permeable sandstone in southeast Florida.
The Biscayne Aquifer is high susceptibility to contamination due to its exposure at the land surface and high permeable rates. The most common contaminate in the aquifer is saline water and chemicals carried by runoff into canals. During the wet season pesticides and fertilizers are use heavily and become susceptible to runoff. Other contaminates include landfills, septic tanks, sewage water treatment ponds and storm water disposal wells.
Where the aquifer is exposed at the surface or thin layers of soil allow the aquifer to response to rain rapidly. Rain, wetlands, canals are major part of recharge to the aquifer. During the wet season sheets of water move south towards the Everglades to recharge the aquifer.
http://academic.emporia.edu/schulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/2009/Jenkins/Harry.htm
https://www.sfwmd.gov/science-data/gw-modeling
The next link talks specially about soil subsidence and the increase in flooding (400%) since 2006 - easy to understand graphics and only one page. Soil subsidence due to the city being built on swamps - aka - New Orleans.
http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf
Older article on the Miami flooding situation from back in 2015
Part 1 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article41141856.html
Part 2 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article41416653.html
Last August -- Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/businessweek/miami-s-other-water-problem#gs.QEpwSGQr
52
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 7:36pm
MrMagic
2019 Mar 2, 7:36pm
Kakistocracy says
Don't read your own links, do you:
Is the city flooding from the ocean because the land is sinking or not?
Also, try this:
...."Geological changes along the East Coast are causing land to sink along the seaboard. That’s exacerbating the flood-inducing effects of sea level rise, which has been occurring faster in the western Atlantic Ocean than elsewhere in recent years.
The study, published this month in Geophysical Research Letters, outlines a hot spot from Delaware and Maryland into northern North Carolina where the effects of groundwater pumping are compounding the sinking effects of natural processes.
Their study revealed that Hyde County — a sprawling but sparsely populated farming and wilderness municipality north of the Pamlico River — is among the region’s fastest-sinking areas, subsiding at a little more than an inch per decade.
The study shows that subsidence is occurring twice as fast now than in centuries past in a hot spot from Fredericksburg, Va. south to Charleston, which the scientists mostly blame on groundwater pumping."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sinking-atlantic-coastline-meets-rapidly-rising-seas/
Soil subsidence due to the city being built on swamps - aka - New Orleans.
http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf
Don't read your own links, do you:
Is the city flooding from the ocean because the land is sinking or not?
Also, try this:
...."Geological changes along the East Coast are causing land to sink along the seaboard. That’s exacerbating the flood-inducing effects of sea level rise, which has been occurring faster in the western Atlantic Ocean than elsewhere in recent years.
The study, published this month in Geophysical Research Letters, outlines a hot spot from Delaware and Maryland into northern North Carolina where the effects of groundwater pumping are compounding the sinking effects of natural processes.
Their study revealed that Hyde County — a sprawling but sparsely populated farming and wilderness municipality north of the Pamlico River — is among the region’s fastest-sinking areas, subsiding at a little more than an inch per decade.
The study shows that subsidence is occurring twice as fast now than in centuries past in a hot spot from Fredericksburg, Va. south to Charleston, which the scientists mostly blame on groundwater pumping."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sinking-atlantic-coastline-meets-rapidly-rising-seas/
53
anonymous
2019 Mar 3, 4:07am
MrMagic says
Concerning the link cited in comment 59 the key word in that piece is "might" - not probable - "might" in the upper left hand corner box.
As for the conclusions comments box -3mm comes out to 0.11811024 inches and is limited to a particular area of Miami Beach.
No, overall - the city is not flooding because of soil subsidence - I read the article from the Daily Caller, try something different and yes, I read the King Tide thread. Wasn't worth commenting on.
Once again the land subsidence is not being caused by the Biscayne Aquifer being drained of groundwater since the aquifer restocks so rapidly which is not the case in the Central Valley of California.
Concerning the rest of the verbiage on comment 59 this is the tried and true PatNet formula for playing "gotcha" by changing the parameters and moving the goalposts of the discussion.
Homey didn't play that shit with MisterLearnToCode the other day and not playing it with anyone else.
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.
Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?
Nah... impossible, right?
Concerning the link cited in comment 59 the key word in that piece is "might" - not probable - "might" in the upper left hand corner box.
As for the conclusions comments box -3mm comes out to 0.11811024 inches and is limited to a particular area of Miami Beach.
No, overall - the city is not flooding because of soil subsidence - I read the article from the Daily Caller, try something different and yes, I read the King Tide thread. Wasn't worth commenting on.
Once again the land subsidence is not being caused by the Biscayne Aquifer being drained of groundwater since the aquifer restocks so rapidly which is not the case in the Central Valley of California.
Concerning the rest of the verbiage on comment 59 this is the tried and true PatNet formula for playing "gotcha" by changing the parameters and moving the goalposts of the discussion.
Homey didn't play that shit with MisterLearnToCode the other day and not playing it with anyone else.
54
mell
2019 Mar 3, 8:32am
Another arctic blast coming. And we're already in March. Manbearpig! Manbearpig!
55
socal2
2019 Mar 3, 10:24am
Kakistocracy says
I work for an environmental engineering consulting firm that specializes in water and sewer rehabilitation - primarily the pipe and transport infrastructure. So I suppose I have some "special interests" in seeing money public spent on basic civilization necessities like clean water so cities can hire specialized firms like mine to help them fix their problems.
One of the many projects we are working on is trying to locate big soil voids to prevent massive sinkholes from deep 50 year old sewer lines swallowing up whole city blocks in Los Angeles. All the old concrete pipe is getting chewed to bits by the high H2S gas and recent rain storms and is at the end of it's life. Deep sewer lines are very difficult and expensive to repair or replace. We are also working on a project in San Diego to recycle over 50% of our sewage and use it for drinking water requiring new water treatment plants, pipes and pump-stations.
All I am saying is that there are so many more just run of the mill, yet massive engineering challenges facing water public works agencies every day. Building desalination plants to generate additional water is not that hard. Just dumb politics gets in the way.
What does that mean precisely ? "in the industry" ?
Sounds like it comes with an inherent bias towards a particular solution that may or may not be in the public's best interests but certainly is in the best interests of whatever solution is being promoted by a particular "industry".
I work for an environmental engineering consulting firm that specializes in water and sewer rehabilitation - primarily the pipe and transport infrastructure. So I suppose I have some "special interests" in seeing money public spent on basic civilization necessities like clean water so cities can hire specialized firms like mine to help them fix their problems.
One of the many projects we are working on is trying to locate big soil voids to prevent massive sinkholes from deep 50 year old sewer lines swallowing up whole city blocks in Los Angeles. All the old concrete pipe is getting chewed to bits by the high H2S gas and recent rain storms and is at the end of it's life. Deep sewer lines are very difficult and expensive to repair or replace. We are also working on a project in San Diego to recycle over 50% of our sewage and use it for drinking water requiring new water treatment plants, pipes and pump-stations.
All I am saying is that there are so many more just run of the mill, yet massive engineering challenges facing water public works agencies every day. Building desalination plants to generate additional water is not that hard. Just dumb politics gets in the way.
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300 inches is 25 feet.