patrick.net

P N Dr Lo R got awfully silent. #Hitchslapped

They got it wrong, wrong god.

Strategist says

FortWayne says

Without god we'd be failing morally, it would be hell on earth.

Muslims have God. What morals do they have?

Dan8267 says

Then your mother was a shitty teacher.

Most people would be offended by this, but when I consider the source, what else should I expect? Imagine what the reaction would be if I'd said that about his mother.

FortWayne says

They got it wrong, wrong god.

Actually, it's the same damn god. The god of Abraham. So you both got it wrong. All gods are wrong.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

They got it wrong, wrong god.

Actually, it's the same damn god. The god of Abraham. So you both got it wrong.

Exactly. The dead charlatan Mohamed hijacked the god of Abraham just as FortWayne's and P N Dr Lo R's preferred charlatans did. Mohamed was worse, but the tactic is the same: take a population conditioned to believe in a paradoxically omnipotent yet inchoate monotheistic deity, and pretend to represent that deity. Mohamed used force, thus embodying omnipotence. Historically, many Christians have done the same, though currently they rely primarily on brainwahing children and trying to convert a few adults.

If an omnipotent deity wanted you to know something, he wouldn't need to pay charlatans to tell you. As a wise former priest explained, all organized churches are fundamentally about the denial of god. The minute you put one stone atop another, or fix a roof, you're saying an omnipotent deity wanted a church there, when in fact that's false: if he wanted a church there, it would be there, and you wouldn't need to build or maintain it. These institutions empower charlatans, and reward charlatans, thus luring more. Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, George "Rentboy" Rekers, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson (Yale JD lawyer realized he could gain more $$$ and power and a private jet by fleecing the faithful), on and on it goes, and suckers keep lining up. Fool them with identity and emotional sales, tell them to identify as believers and to feel good and superior to their fellow men, it works every time. "Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

www.youtube.com/embed/SdcGoBOsaQM

curious2 says

paradoxically omnipotent yet inchoate monotheistic deity

Lol, that's about it, and it's why I am not a believer, except in the Golden Rule.

And yet, I have sympathy for Christianity for a lot of reasons:

* It's where I came from (well, aside from my Jewish grampa on mom's side).
* Jesus was a good role model and Christianity has a good message (that Golden Rule) even if it doesn't really sink in for a lot of people.
* Christianity provides some immunity against joining Islam, which is a ridiculously violent cult bent on world domination.
* Churches provide communities, and therefore meaning, for lots of people.
* Christianity provides a lot of people hope in hopeless situations. Who am I to take that away without anything better to offer?

Strategist says

but still not a fair question.

Dan is obfuscating, I'm calling it out, totally fair.

Dan8267 says

This is a No True Scottsman argument.

No it's not. It's simply stating that you have to practice what your religion dictates, not what your personal, incorrect interpretation of that religion leads you to believe.

Dan8267 says

So, by your criteria, no terrorist can be a Muslim by definition, and therefore no Muslim is a terrorist.

What you're really getting at is exactly my point above. I'm sure you're aware their are many different denominations of Protestantism. From Catholics to Seventh Day Adventists. In the same way there are many sects of Islam. In many cases the divisions are over petty things like how to baptize(sprinkle vs immerse). But in some cases they are much larger. There are many Catholic church's that mandate you cannot go to heaven without practicing the sacraments. In many other protestant denominations, this is heresy as it amounts to salvation by works. The larger differences ARE important, and you cannot judge all of a religion based on one extreme sect.

Dan8267 says

No moral entity, nonetheless the embodiment of morality, would allow atrocities to be committed in his name.

Now we're getting somewhere. Your problem isn't with God, it's with choice. And hypocrisy obviously. I don't think you understand this, you're too busy being angry to get past that.

Dan8267 says

You see, I have this psychological condition called empathy which allows me to value the lives of others.

Bullshit. Most people aren't sociopaths, so we're all generally against these same things. But only YOU rant about religion. Why? I'm not letting you off with some impersonal excuse.

And I'll say this. If you can't be honest about your hatred of my God, you can't bad mouth Him or His followers here. At least not with any dignity or justification.

NuttBoxer says

Dan is obfuscating,

Obfuscating my ass. I gave you a very clear, direct, and defensible answer. Then you pussied out.

NuttBoxer says

No it's not. It's simply stating that you have to practice what your religion dictates, not what your personal, incorrect interpretation of that religion leads you to believe.

It's clearly a No-True-Scottsman argument as you are literally arguing that any Christian, no matter how fervent in his belief and proselytizing, is not a real Christian if he does any evil in the name of Christ. Well, that include 99% of Christians throughout history including today. It also includes all American Christians who are pro-war, pro-torture, pro-death-penalty, anti-gay, or climate change deniers.

NuttBoxer says

Dan8267 says

No moral entity, nonetheless the embodiment of morality, would allow atrocities to be committed in his name.

Now we're getting somewhere. Your problem isn't with God, it's with choice. And hypocrisy obviously. I don't think you understand this, you're too busy being angry to get past that.

That's a load of bullshit. My problem is with brainwashing people to make irrational choices and to corrupt government. It would be trivial for your fictional god, if he were real, to make it clear to every single person on Earth what his wishes are in a completely unambiguous way. There would be no debate about which religion was right or which wars or policies were just. God could have a damn Twitter feed answering questions 24/7. None of this would interfere with choice.

[stupid comment limit]

Furthermore, you are making an ad hominem by falsely accusing me of being angry. It's childish, and it's obvious that you are spreading that lie in order to discredit me. You feel the need to do this because you simply are not intelligent enough to come up with a rational argument to defend your position, so you are hoping you can fool the audience into thinking that I'm the irrational one. The audience isn't as dumb as you.

This isn't anger, but rather the certainty one gets from being on the side of truth and having the evidence and reasoning to back up his position. That's a feeling you will never know.

Dan8267 says

NuttBoxer says

Dan8267 says

However, its followers have committed the greatest atrocities in all of human history and continue to do great harm to America today.

I'm gonna get right in your face and make you justify your BS position. What did believers of Jesus Christ ever do to YOU. Not humanity, not 500 years ago. YOU personally.

Nothing. The messenger is irrelevant. I've never been raped. I'm still against the legalization of rape. I've never been murdered. I'm still against the legalization of murder. I've never been tortured. I'm still against the legalization of torture.

You see, I have this psychological condition called empathy which allows me to value the lives of others. Either you get that or your don't. If you don't get that, there is nothing I can do to ...

NuttBoxer says

Bullshit. Most people aren't sociopaths, so we're all generally against these same things. But only YOU rant about religion. Why? I'm not letting you off with some impersonal excuse.

The fact that you cannot understand that I might be against something because it has harmed other people rather than because it has harmed me indicates that you lack empathy.

NuttBoxer says

And I'll say this. If you can't be honest about your hatred of my God, you can't bad mouth Him or His followers here. At least not with any dignity or justification.

Only an idiot would think I hate your fictional god. How could one possibly hate a fictional character?

Get over yourself. You are that smart. Your god never existed in the first place. No one loves or hates a being that does not exist. You are projecting my rejection of your god as a rejection of you. You are demonstrating what DarkMatter2525 describes in this video.

www.youtube.com/embed/-j8ZMMuu7MU

I don't reject you because I reject your god. I reject your god because he's a lie. I reject you because you are a liar and a fool.

There's nothing you can do to make me accept your phony god because you cannot make him real. If you want me to accept you, then stop being delusional and a liar.

NuttBoxer says

But only YOU rant about religion. Why?

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

For Dan & curious2, here's an excerpt from the Zoroastrian take on the Book of Revelation ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frashokereti

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned. The river will then flow down to hell, where it will annihilate Angra Mainyu and the last vestiges of wickedness in the universe."

The term, Saoshyant, is the ancient Persian (Avestan language) terminology for Savior

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant

Seriously, the more things change, the more they stay the same. One culture started this stuff, 1500 B.C.E to 1000 B.C.E, and then, a bunch of ahem ... original thinkers, photocopy this stuff for what would be the modern era for the ancient world, 10 B.C.E to 700 A.D.

Yes, Islam was the last of the plagiarizers.

Rin says

Seriously, the more things change, the more they stay the same. One culture started this stuff, 1500 B.C.E to 1000 B.C.E, and then, a bunch of ahem ... original thinkers, photocopy this stuff for what would be the modern era for the ancient world, 10 B.C.E to 700 A.D.

Yes, Islam was the last of the plagiarizers.

Zorastrian is a peaceful religion. Islam is a fucking violent religion. Mohammad took the worst of all religions, put it together, added some of his own crap, and voila, you have a religion that fucks up the whole world.

P N Dr Lo R says

NuttBoxer says

But only YOU rant about religion. Why?

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

Another false assertion that is easily disproved. Philanthropy, business, and family matter much more to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (one atheist the other agnostic). Biology matters much more to Richard Dawkins, and astronomy mattered much more to Carl Sagan. There is no evidence to suggest that atheists are obsessed with any particular religion, let alone a particular monotheistic one.

The statement above illustrates yet again the pattern of religious salesmanship: persuade the flock to identify as believers and then say something that sounds bad about the other side. They'll identify and then get excited about feeling superior and empty their pockets for you. It works especially on people who are otherwise losers and have no other way to feel good about themselves, or even OK about themselves.

curious2 says

"Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Same story different day. Full quotation from LBJ, originally about racism and the KKK:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

P N Dr Lo R copies his User name from the transmission of his old Cadillac, which is also his avatar, desperate to feel superior. Cadillac makes a fine automobile, but that cannot compensate for the person driving it.

curious2 says

The statement above illustrates yet again the pattern of religious salesmanship: persuade the flock to identify as believers and then say something that sounds bad about the other side. They'll identify and then get excited about feeling superior and empty their pockets for you.

Here's the thing, if the Christian post-mortum was so great, then why doesn't an idiot like P N Dr Lo R wear a t-shirt which says, "I Hate Black People" in the South Side of Chicago or North Philadelphia. He'd immediately be gunned down and then, he'll ascend to a greater high, than anyone who disagrees with him. Remember, being murdered is not suicide and thus, not a sin. He can ask forgiveness to Jesus for his overt racism during the Bardo plane transition.

In reality, he's not confident about anything. Even his real so-called faith is if-y because he really doesn't know what's beyond this life and thus, is hedging his bet. A real believer would prefer being killed off, then in living on some sinful physical plane of existence.

Rin says

He can ask forgiveness to Jesus for his overt racism....

Not even necessary, as per Dan's video: in Cal's mind, the "omnipotent" deity is an ego extension who always agrees with him. No need to apologize to yourself for believing what you agree with.

Rin says

A real believer would prefer being killed off, then in living on some sinful physical plane of existence.

Dan made a similar point in a different thread: a real believer would celebrate abortion because it means a baby went to heaven without sin. Abortion would be mandatory in sects that don't require baptism. For those that do require baptism, the baby would be drowned in the baptismal water. Save that soul! Instead, of course, the baby must grow up and tithe, and crusade against the enemy, which is the real point.

He can ask forgiveness to Jesus

the "omnipotent" deity is an ego extension who always agrees with him. No need to apologize to yourself for believing what you agree with.

----------------

This is why the only acceptable form of Christianity is The Quakers.

NuttBoxer says

But only YOU rant about religion. Why?

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

P N Dr Lo R says

NuttBoxer says

But only YOU rant about religion. Why?

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

LOL - after that foolishness was already completely refuted, "P N Dr Lo R" posts it again, desperately trying to reassure himself. Such is the religious response to debate: simply repeat the same falsehood. Do unto others, I suppose...

P N Dr Lo R says

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

Another false assertion that is easily disproved. Philanthropy, business, and family matter much more to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (one atheist the other agnostic). Biology matters much more to Richard Dawkins, and astronomy mattered much more to Carl Sagan. There is no evidence to suggest that atheists are obsessed with any particular religion, let alone a particular monotheistic one.

The statement above illustrates yet again the pattern of religious salesmanship: persuade the flock to identify as believers and then say something that sounds bad about the other side. They'll identify and then get excited about feeling superior and empty their pockets for you. It works especially on people who are otherwise losers and have no other way to feel good about themselves, or even OK about themselves.

curious2 says

"Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Same story different day. Full quotation from LBJ, originally about racism and the KKK:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

P N Dr Lo R copies his User name from the transmission of his old Cadillac, which is also his avatar, desperate to feel superior. Cadillac makes a fine automobile, but that cannot compensate for the person driving it.

P N Dr Lo R says

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

Sounds like a "white man's burden" argument. Complete bullshit.

P N Dr Lo R says

God is the obsession of atheists. A cruel joke they play on themselves.

If it wasn't for the belief in God, man would have progressed by a thousand years.
Major diseases would have been cured.
We would be walking on other planets.
Robots would be doing everything we don't want to do.
The world would be at peace.
There would be no Islam.

All this arguing is unlikely to move anyone, so I suggest rather a spiritual reawakening. P N Dr Lo R would surely love The Landover Baptist Church:

If you are interested in getting saved, and you are not joking around about it just to upset us, we ask you kindly to click on this link and we'll help you get started on processing your eternal security certification right away!"

I understand they love a good pot luck. May spaghetti be with you, and also with you.

curious2 says

May spaghetti be with you, and also with you.

curious2 says

"P N Dr Lo R" posts it again

That's the point. It took me five seconds to make that post last night, but it's already brought six responses at the expense of how much time and effort?

P N Dr Lo R says

curious2 says

"P N Dr Lo R" posts it again

That's the point. It took me five seconds to make that post last night, but it's already brought six responses at the expense of how much time and effort?

@Patrick, this is why a "troll" flag might help.

P N Dr Lo R says

That's the point. It took me five seconds to make that post last night, but it's already brought six responses at the expense of how much time and effort?

I welcome P N Dr Lo R's posts. Every one of them makes a better case against Christianity than I ever could.

Dan8267 says

if he were real, to make it clear to every single person on Earth what his wishes are in a completely unambiguous way.

Like in writing? It's called the Bible. But God didn't stop there, He actually came down, in the form of man, to tell us what He wanted. Try reading the red letters in a Bible sometime, just might change your life.

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, you are making an ad hominem by falsely accusing me of being angry.

You're hiding behind internet anonymity again to lie. If you show your posts in this thread to any, ANY psychologist, and they don't asses a large amount of anger and bitterness in them, then I'll withdraw my comment. What did God or His believers do to YOU Dan. Until you confess, your just some braying jackass who pisses on something because he can. Well, just remember, God gave you that choice.

Dan8267 says

The fact that you cannot understand that I might be against something because it has harmed

Dan8267 says

we're all generally against these same things. But only YOU rant about religion.

Still avoiding, still obfuscating, still not answering. I've been on here long enough to know this is your number one hatred, not rape, not abortion, not Trump, genocide, abused children, religion. You generalize because when asked for specifics, it's too personal, and you aren't man enough to say what personal reason drives your hatred.

Dan8267 says

If you want me to accept you,

This demonstrates more than anything, that you don't understand God, or His believers. You think I care about what some internet personality thinks of me? If I cared about that sort of stuff I wouldn't bait so many people here with my posts. I RELISH the hatred and name calling. Not very Christian of me, and if you want to call that out, you're right.

But I do care what you think about God, because He made you, He loves you. And He has done everything He can from day one to make that clear to you. I'm sorry people have gotten so much in the way of His message that you've never seen it. Sometimes we reflect Him, but just as often we can and do reflect our own selfish self interests. A very legitimate reason for you to not believe. But our bad witness doesn't change who God is, or how He feels about you.

NuttBoxer says

Like in writing? It's called the Bible.

I though it was called the Quran. After all, there are thousands of holy books. Why should I believe yours when you don't believe others, hypocrite.

By the way, your Bible is pro-slavery, pro-genocide, and pro-rape. Some moral authority your god is.

No. I mean your false god can get off his lazy ass and speak first hand to all the people of the Earth in a way that cannot be faked by Bronze Age charlatans. But hey, if he wants to do it in writing, why not write with the stars themselves. Have a moral code written with the 200 billion stars in our galaxy. Again, this should be trivial to do for an all powerful being.

Logic: 1,000,000
Religion: 0

NuttBoxer says

Dan8267 says

we're all generally against these same things. But only YOU rant about religion.

I did not say that. Are you resorting to deliberate misquotes now?

NuttBoxer says

You generalize because when asked for specifics, it's too personal, and you aren't man enough to say what personal reason drives your hatred.

Another lie. Two in fact. First, I haven't generalized. I've listed quite specific things that Christianity has done that have been evil and quite specific things that Christians have failed to be as moral as secularists, atheists, and agnostics regarding.

The second lie, and yet another ad hominem attack from a weak willed, feeble mind, is that I am at all driven by hatred. The only person here demonstrating hatred is you. I'm driven by honesty. That's something you can never understand.

Once again, your attempts to poison the well are obvious, childish, and ineffective, much like your religion. However, thanks for demonstrating that at the heart of all religious persons is a deep intellectual dishonesty. That's yet another reason the religious should not be respected at all.

NuttBoxer says

This demonstrates more than anything, that you don't understand God, or His believers.

Oh honey, you are quite transparent. There is nothing deep about your delusion that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfectly moral being whose own words advocate slavery, genocide, and rape. How do you square that circle? Are those things good? Is your god not-so-good? Did you god change his mind because he learn something? An all-knowing entity cannot ever learn anything by definition.

Those who believe in a false god, especially one as morally despicable as the Christian god, deserve no respect.

And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34

And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. Deuteronomy 3:6

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them. Deuteronomy 7:16

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Translation: Kill all the women who aren't virgins, and rape all the virgins repeatedly as your sex slaves. The Christian god is truly a pillar of morality.

Oh, and he's also very pro-incest. All that begetting involving the children of Adam and Eve... Who exactly where they fucking? Oh, their siblings.

NuttBoxer says

But I do care what you think about God, because He made you, He loves you. And He has done everything He can from day one to make that clear to you.

Most useless God. Makes babies he loves, and then lets them starve to death. No different than Allah.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/somalia-dead-drought-starve-prime-minister-hassan-khaire-united-nations-famine-mogadishu-country-a7611471.html

Dan8267 says

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Genocidal maniac. Rapist. Pedophile. Murderer. No different than Allah.

Dan8267 says

I welcome P N Dr Lo R's posts. Every one of them makes a better case against Christianity than I ever could.

More than obliged. You'll never have to respond to any of my posts again except to thank me.

Strategist says

an8267 says

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Genocidal maniac. Rapist. Pedophile. Murderer. No different than Allah.

I'm more impressed with Moses Malone, than his Biblical namesake.

www.youtube.com/embed/niA1HKj2OfQ

If Biblical Moses went up against the likes of Robert Parish, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and Larry Bird, he'd go back to Mt Sinai and beg the burning bush to give him Wilt Chamberlain's talent.