patrick.net

CaptainShuddup says

What are the expectations from both parties, and you say for 5 to 10 years.

What is the exit strategy in this plan?

Plan is that we would live in it and then when we can afford to buy our own we will. At current pace, we would like to move to S. Cal for a slightly cheaper housing market and proximity to more of her family. But if this house was in a nice area like Mill Valley than staying put here for a while makes a lot more sense.

Sounds like a scheme to have some level of control over your life.
At best it is very intrusive into something that is really none of his business.

Tell him if you'd like to be your own man, and if he really wants to help he can give his daughter (uummh... or son) an advance on her (his) inheritance.

Quigley says

Having family to help raise kids is nothing to scoff at

They live in outside of California in the deep South, so they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often. But I wish the were closer, help with a lot of issues.

OnTheFence says

they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often.

Or maybe they would - and they would feel like they own the place.

turtledove says

Your wife is also likely going to feel guilt over owing her father. Her way of dealing with it might be different from yours. Also, it's possible that this gesture by her father will fortify the parent-child apron string. Instead of her husband being the "provider," it's her father. This could cause problems later on and is just something to think about.

This is my fear, in a nut shell. But is it worth passing on such a killer offer. Apart of me feels like I should just swallow my pride and realize it's a nice offer and it can help our family.....the other part is like....you will be the guy who took a handout

OnTheFence says

The plan would be that after we were ready to buy our own house we would move out and he could do what he wishes with it, sell it, rent it, whatever.

Well if you really care about your relationship I would consider that eventuality more carefully than speculating of any historical RE data from the last 10 to 15 years.

joshuatrio says

$8k later it was fixed.

Bang and here is my other issue. We pay $1,200 a month, we're saving. But if we get a $1M property and then some bullshit happens, now we're out the savings we thought we'd be getting. Plus now I'm pissed, and I'm not loving that.

FortWayne says

Think of all scenarios before you move in. Are you moving into a fixer, how much would it cost to fix it up?

I would want a place that is at least 3BR/2BA in at least 2K sq feet.
Amazing public school, and close to San Francisco.

So I'm thinking:

Piedmont or Mill Valley

Capped out around $1M.

If I don't get those, then what's the point. I'd need to upgrade on ALL my areas I lack now:

Size, School, Reduce Probability of major work that I pay out on.

House must be major maintenance free for 10 years.

BoomAndBustCycle says

OnTheFence says

4. I've always heard to not mix family and money, and I never have. Anyone have experience with something like this that ended up turning into a "wish we never would have" scenarios.

Do you like your father-in-law? Is he really able to afford what he is offering.. Or could he fall on hard times and have to rescind the offer. I don't see a big problem with it if your wife isn't worried. Worst case scenario you have to short sale the house or foreclose and your father-in-law takes most of the hit. Can't be much worse than taking a loan from a bank.

Financially he can afford it.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sounds like a scheme to have some level of control over your life.

At best it is very intrusive into something that is really none of his business.

Tell him if you'd like to be your own man, and if he really wants to help he can give his daughter (uummh... or son) an advance on her (his) inheritance.

Hmm hard to say that and not sound like a prick. I'm thinking if I decide to pass on the offer entirely, I just don't send them any homes and never bring it up. Again, this is a very awesome offer.

Heraclitusstudent says

OnTheFence says

they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often.

Or maybe they would - and they would feel like they own the place.

Never thought of that....

OnTheFence says

Financially he can afford it.

Then I'd only do it if he gifted the house. There's just way too much that could go wrong any other way. If he just gifts the house from the start, then it will always be it was. Where as the way it is now, you're trying to plan your and his finances ten years from now. What assumed intentions are today, can be to opposite extremes in that timeframe.

OnTheFence says

Hmm hard to say that and not sound like a prick.

Quite frankly the offer is fairly prickly itself. If I had a married daughter I would feel very bad making such an offer, essentially making her family depend on me. By nature this is intrusive in your marriage, which, it should be clear, is none of his business (and you ought to make that CRYSTAL CLEAR).

If my FIL was offering this I would answer immediately: "No thanks I'm doing fine, I don't need your help. I'm not a student anymore. "

If pushed I would say he can make a gift to his daughter. That's between him and her. And that's a one time gift, not a dependency.

I would not accept anything where I feel I owe him. "Good offer" or not. There are way too many unhealthy developments that can come out of it. Most you can't predict.

I agree with the crustacean.

OnTheFence says

My Father in law made me an offer to find a home in an area with good schools
that will be something we can live in 5-10 years. He would take care of the
purchase price and payments, we would be on the hook for utilities and
maintenance

What is the question again?????????

OnTheFence says

would want a place that is at least 3BR/2BA in at least 2K sq feet.
Amazing
public school, and close to San Francisco.

You ever hear of the term," Do not look a gift horse in the mouth."

99/1 you take it based on this freudian slip.

OnTheFence says

Again, this is a very awesome offer.

There Ain't No Free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzmie60cpwo

Just think:
- If you don't take the offer your wife will hate you condemning her to a life of (relative) poverty.
- If you take the offer, she will implicitly consider this comes from her (as in: not from you) and treat you like an inferior. It will probably also reduce her sex drive as she will feel you're not the "provider" she once thought you were.

You're sooo screwed.

Herac brings up a very good point... If you don't take the offer:

1) Will your wife resent you?
2) Will your FIL forever refer to you as his dumbass son-in-law who doesn't know when to take someone up on a good offer? (FIL not seeing any strings, implied or otherwise).

Instead of the living arrangement, ask to just borrow the downpayment and pay back every red cent. Saving 1500 a month does squat to homeownership goals in sfba.

I don't see where you mention career goals? Housing decisions are usually centered around a job.

The context you give is regarding the house and the family.

Sort of like trying to plot a course with out a destination? or am I missing something?

In any case now is Not the time to buy a house. Things are going to correct in the not too distant future. I don't when, but the signs are everywhere that it is going to correct. The problem is that the Fed has pledged to keep the stock market up and presumably RE.

Read Patrick's book on the housing trap.

Housing is big thing for your FIL, be careful that you do not tacitly make it your thing as well.

SFace says

Instead of the living arrangement, ask to just borrow the downpayment and pay back every red cent. Saving 1500 a month does squat to homeownership goals in sfba.

Agree. Borrow the entire amount and just pay them interest - 2.75-3% (something you would get on 5 year adjustable). Win win.

This is based on the assumption the FIN is paying cash for the house.

Quigley says

And establishing a place to live has been such a monumental headache that I'm on patnet.

And we LOVE you here :)

I've got a friend who just called me. In a month he and his bride will be moving in with us. The economy in Oregon sucks but the economy in Texas is booming. He's about one step away from living in his car (and his car is OLD). At this point part of the challenge is getting here. Once he gets here, things shouldn't be much of an issue. There are places here that are advertising that they will pay you and help you study to get a CDL and will pay you more as a driver once you get the CDL. They are advertising on the radio and billboards. Driving is NOT his line of work, but if one decided to change lines or was desperate to find a job ...

OnTheFence says

It's sad to say but I don't want there to be a scenario where he is enabling us to live our lives....it's prideful but can't shake it.

No, Sir. It's not sad that you want to be a man. I greatly admire that and your daughter will need the example. It would be a different story if you had fallen on hard times and could not feed your family, but it sounds like you are doing just fine.

mmmarvel said: There are places here that are advertising that they will pay you and help you study to get a CDL and will pay you more as a driver once you get the CDL.
Thanks for the field report. Similar to the article I posted a couple of months ago: The New Jersey-based firm now says it's going to have to spend more on wages and training to hold onto and attract more drivers. Companies are opening their pocket books to train workers -- are folks paying attention.

SFace says

Instead of the living arrangement, ask to just borrow the downpayment and pay back every red cent. Saving 1500 a month does squat to homeownership goals in sfba.

I suppose this would be a bit better in that I would own the home, build equity etc. while still getting a cash infusion I otherwise never would have created myself. I'll give this serious thought.

indigenous says

I don't see where you mention career goals? Housing decisions are usually centered around a job.

Well I'm in tech, so I'm looking to stay either in the Bay Area where it is nice and hot, or go somewhere that is closer to her side of the family without taking a huge step back in job prospects, S. Cal.

On The Fence,

You over-think this. It's not about you. Your FIL is just being respectful by asking you. The reason he is willing to foot the mortgage payments because he wants a better place for his daughter and grand daughter. Eventually, the money will belong to his daughter and grand daughter anyways.

Since he's footing the bill, he still has total control of the property. However, I would ask him to add your wife's name on the Grant Deed so she can write off the MID and property tax. That should save you guys thousands each year.

Saving $1,500/month won't get you anywhere in the Bay Area. If you're going to borrow his money for the down payment, how are you going to afford a $1M home with your salary and your savings? There is no way you can pay him back with those numbers.

I don't understand the 5-10 years comment. He will be paying the mortgage for the first 5-10 years?

My take: take the offer, but the proper arrangement would be that you and your wife own the house (he gifts it to you). The best would be if he could buy it outright and have mortgage where you owe him (not bank) money for the say 2/3 of the payments (11-30) years, starting to be payable in 10 years (say).

It however probably makes sense to borrow the money from the bank, since the money is cheap now. I believe you and your wife can be owners, but your FIL and you can be put on the mortgage and/or promissory note.

In any case I believe there is a viable legal arrangement, where you own the house, but only owe a portion of the borrowed money to the bank.

It is perfectly normal and expected in many cultures that parents help their children to have easier start in life and there is nothing wrong with that IMO. The pride is sorta silly - part of what makes Americans such a good corporate slaves.

Have you considered Austin? Tech is booming there and you could afford a home on your own. The local culture is fairly multicultural and a mixed couple would fit right in. I've been considering that city for the same reasons.

Quigley says

Have you considered Austin?

Austin is very expensive, by Texas standards, to live. Compared to CA it's still a bargain - just saying from this Texan's view.

Quigley said: Have you considered Austin?

Out of the frying pan and into the fire? According to Trulia: The most overvalued market is now Austin, at 19%, followed by the California metros of Los Angeles, Orange County, San Francisco, and Riverside-San Bernardino.

Do men generally get along with their father-in-laws?

Peter P says

Do men generally get along with their father-in-laws?

Not unless the son-in-law is awesome to the nth degree. I have two daughters, one is married to a soldier, which brings him up to about a C in my book. He is okay, but needs to be bettering himself. In my book, she could have done better.

My other daughter is hooked up with slime. Some of his background has been revealed to me and in my book it's not good. He rates a F minus, minus, minus. And I KNOW that that girl could have done better.

Remember, a man's daughter (to most of us) is our princess. She might do some wrong, but can easily make up for it. The man who wins her had better be able to make me smile and have pride in him. I'm the standard and he better be able to meet or surpass me - which isn't easy.

E-man says

You over-think this

You are right about the over thinking bit.

unclemat says

I don't understand the 5-10 years comment. He will be paying the mortgage for the first 5-10 years?

The 5-10 year bit comes from me saying that I'm not confident that I want to stay in the SFBA in the long term. The plan has always been save a bunch of money while we are here, build a career, and then move to S.Cal for the weather, family, and good job prospects to further our careers.

EBGuy says

Quigley said: Have you considered Austin?

Out of the frying pan and into the fire? According to Trulia: The most overvalued market is now Austin, at 19%, followed by the California metros of Los Angeles, Orange County, San Francisco, and Riverside-San Bernardino.

No not seriously. Neither of our family are there so that would be a massive negative.

Re: 45 minutes later, he left with his head spinning...

Hey callitcrazy, longtime lurker here and I thought I knew who you were, but due to this story, now I'm sure of it.

By buddy married your daughter and repeatedly told me of that 45 minute conversation. Want to know how he got back at you? Well, one day when he was done mouthfucking your little girl he sprayed a massive load on her face. Then, as some sort of roleplaying game they were into he used a spoon from YOUR KITCHEN to scoop it up and feed it to her.

He held onto that spoon, wiped it up just enough to appear clean, then swapped it out at your seat at the dinner table when no one was looking. Later, he saw you scoop a bite, draw it into your mouth, and he just sat back and smiled. And to think, you just thought your wife's soup was just a little "salty" that day :)

one timer says

Re: 45 minutes later, he left with his head spinning...

Hey callitcrazy, longtime lurker here and I thought I knew who you were, but due to this story, now I'm sure of it.

By buddy married your daughter and repeatedly told me of that 45 minute conversation. Want to know how he got back at you? Well, one day when he was done mouthfucking your little girl he sprayed a massive load on her face. Then, as some sort of roleplaying game they were into he used a spoon from YOUR KITCHEN to scoop it up and feed it to her.

He held onto that spoon, wiped it up just enough to appear clean, then swapped it out at your seat at the dinner table when no one was looking. Later, he saw you scoop a bite, draw it into your mouth, and he just sat back and smiled. And to think, you just thought your wife's soup was just a little "salty" that day :)

Creepy; stalker-like; rude; and foul-mouthed.... Surely you aren't single!