patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

1) No terrorism has ever derailed the prosperity of any country. That's non-sense.

If you ignore the trauma - which is the only thing terrorists are going for - even 911 was like an irrelevant mosquito bite at the US level. You're like the elephant scared by the ant.

This is true. More people have been killed by Hitler and Stalin each than have been killed by all the terrorists and all the criminals in all of human history put together.

Hell, more Americans dies from automobile crash than died in all the terrorist attacks in our history.

Even more telling, ten times as many Americans died each year from capitalistic health care than did on 9/11

The American health care system before Obamacare was a complete fucking joke that cost more lives than if a 9/11 happened 10 times a year every fucking year. And that's a damn conservative estimate that doesn't include the multitudes of people who die because their health insurance providers weasel their way out of covering treatments as shown in Sicko.

I don't see Strategist rallying against capitalism. Corporations are far more likely to kill you than a terrorist, especially since there is no repercussions to corporations for doing so.

Dan8267 says

And anyone who is so cowardly as to sacrifice due process, civil rights, and transparency in government for security theater, does not deserve to call himself an American. Real Americans try terrorists. We don't shit our pants in fear at the thought of bringing terrorists into our courtrooms.

You must be joking mate. Trying hundreds of terrorists in our civil courts? Oh God. Remember OJ? There is no way we can try thousands of terrorists, spending billions we don't have, only to see most of them get off on technicalities, because some dumb clerk made a typo.
I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice due process for terrorists. Let them get their due process from their fucking Allah.

Dan8267 says

Silly? How fucking evil do you have to be to consider fatal human medical experimentation, forced sterilization, and outright murder to be "silly"? Christ, man. These are Holocaust crimes. Did you think the Holocaust was silly, too?

He he he he. Relax.
Dan8267 says

11. Our government has illegally murdered its own citizens without trial or even charges including minors.

Awlaki comes to mind. Good.

Dan8267 says

9. Our government has performed illegal medical experiments on its own citizens against their will. Many of these victims died as a result.


10. Our government has illegally sterilized its own citizens against their will.

Did Bgmall4 tell you this?

Strategist says

Why don't we save the 30,000 starving children and go after the terrorists? If we do nothing about 911 we will end up with a 911 ever month.

Empirically false. Bush did absolutely nothing about 9/11 other than using it as an excuse to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush let Osama bin Laden go. Yet we didn't have another 9/11.

Obama finally killed Osama bin Laden and the only effect it had was increasing terrorism and hatred. If Obama and America had balls, we'd had captured and tried him in an open court proving our strength and that the long hand of the law knows no boundaries. Instead, we pussied out and demonstrated that we don't even believe in our own system of government. That was an epic fail.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

LOL. They are traitors who harm their own country. They are the ones who have failed.

You speak like Lennon, Stalin, Hitler, and all other despots. Your statement is as Unamerican as one can get.

Really? Most Americans would disagree.

Strategist says

Trying hundreds of terrorists in our civil courts? Oh God. Remember OJ?

You're like "Our system is the best" "we are good guys" "our government is fully trustworthy".

Next post: "Nah... our system doesn't work. We *really* have to throw away due process and send undesirable people to concentration camps."

How do you survive the cognitive dissonance?

Strategist says

Really? Most Americans would disagree.

You pulled that statistic out of your ass?

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/27/snowden-interview-nbc/9650925/

66% to 34%, the exact same ratio as sane people to batshit crazy conservatives.

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

Why don't we save the 30,000 starving children and go after the terrorists? If we do nothing about 911 we will end up with a 911 ever month.

Sorry what did attacking Iraq do to prevent the next 911 ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

We screwed up in Iraq. 911 made us angry and trigger happy which resulted in us making mistakes. Mistakes happen....what can we do?

Heraclitusstudent says

In fact ISIS wouldn't even be there today, if GW Bush didn't have the bright idea to remove a secular dictator that was keeping things in place, at the cost of $trillions and many broken lives. Nice results indeed!

ISIS is there because of Islam, not Bush. Can we place blame appropriately? Thanks.

Strategist says

We screwed up in Iraq. 911 made us angry and trigger happy which resulted in us making mistakes. Mistakes happen....what can we do?

No, sorry. You can't say "Ooops sorry, my bad". It's waaaay too easy.
It's not like you just bumped into an old lady in the subway.
You had to think about it before hand. Just like NSA.

Dan8267 says

66% to 34%, the exact same ratio as sane people to batshit crazy conservatives.

I'm a bat shit crazy liberal leaning independent.
This is all bullshit liberal media trash. They first make a traitor out to be a hero with their nonstop BS, and then ask the gullible public for an opinion. LOL. What results did you expect? If the people knew the real arguments for and against, 80% would say traitor.

Strategist says

ISIS is there because of Islam, not Bush. Can we place blame appropriately? Thanks.

Ishlam was there long before Bush and there was no ISIS. How do you explain it?

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

Trying hundreds of terrorists in our civil courts? Oh God. Remember OJ?

You're like "Our system is the best" "we are good guys" "our government is fully trustworthy".

Next post: "Nah... our system doesn't work. We *really* have to throw away due process and send undesirable people to concentration camps."

How do you survive the cognitive dissonance?

OK. You cornered me.
We have the best system that needs improvement. We give the wrong people to many rights. Take the eg. of the scumbags in Gitmo.....they love "fruit loops" LOL. Do you think they treat us the same, or do they just take off our heads?
I say just shoot them. They are a waste of "fruit loops"

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

We screwed up in Iraq. 911 made us angry and trigger happy which resulted in us making mistakes. Mistakes happen....what can we do?

No, sorry. You can't say "Ooops sorry, my bad". It's waaaay too easy.

It's not like you just bumped into an old lady in the subway.

You had to think about it before hand. Just like NSA.

So what do we do?

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

ISIS is there because of Islam, not Bush. Can we place blame appropriately? Thanks.

Ishlam was there long before Bush and there was no ISIS. How do you explain it?

Islamic terrorism was there long before Bush and long before America. They just have different names.
Same terrorist, different name.
If we are to progress and make the world a better place for all our future generations, we have to first destroy these 7th century lunatics.

Strategist says

There is no way we can try thousands of terrorists

You are so full of shit. One In 25 Americans Was Arrested In 2011 If there's one thing America does well, it's incarcerating people. Thousands of terrorists would be a drop in the bucket compared to the 78 million Americans processed by the system each year.

But hey, if you think the courts are too clogged down, eliminate all anti-marijuana laws and we'll have plenty of resources to prosecute terrorists.

Strategist says

I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice due process for terrorists. Let them get their due process from their fucking Allah.

And one day some Muslim blows up you and your family and says, "I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice due process for infidels. Let them get their due process from their fucking Jesus."

You are no different from them.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Silly? How fucking evil do you have to be to consider fatal human medical experimentation, forced sterilization, and outright murder to be "silly"? Christ, man. These are Holocaust crimes. Did you think the Holocaust was silly, too?

He he he he. Relax.

So that's a yes, then?

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

11. Our government has illegally murdered its own citizens without trial or even charges including minors.

Awlaki comes to mind. Good.

That you would praise the murder of an innocent 16-year-old American is despicable. Murdering him and the other innocent minors eating dinner at a restaurant is abhorrent to anyone with integrity or morals. It was also cowardly.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

9. Our government has performed illegal medical experiments on its own citizens against their will. Many of these victims died as a result.



10. Our government has illegally sterilized its own citizens against their will.

Did Bgmall4 tell you this?

We aren't all willfully ignorant like you.

A History Of US Secret Human Experimentation
Every one of these crimes is an abomination.

Ugly past of U.S. human experiments uncovered

Pictures that show how U.S. experimented on its own disabled citizens and prison inmates

Victims speak out about North Carolina sterilization program, which targeted women, young girls and blacks

Unlike you, I don't make shit up. I can always back up my statements with evidence. And I don't bluff.

Strategist says

I'm a bat shit crazy liberal leaning independent.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/c4psKYpfnYs

Everything you advocate is the opposite of liberty.

Strategist says

we have to first destroy these 7th century lunatics.

You're sooo naive. Once you kill them all, and become the new Wehrmacht, there will new ones: more modern and dangerous. You just repeat the same old patterns.

You didn't see the movie?:
"There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet"

There is nothing you can do about that. It's just a question of how you live your life knowing it's the case.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

There is no way we can try thousands of terrorists

You are so full of shit. One In 25 Americans Was Arrested In 2011 If there's one thing America does well, it's incarcerating people. Thousands of terrorists would be a drop in the bucket compared to the 78 million Americans processed by the system each year.

But hey, if you think the courts are too clogged down, eliminate all anti-marijuana laws and we'll have plenty of resources to prosecute terrorists.

Cheers mate. I'm all for it.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice due process for terrorists. Let them get their due process from their fucking Allah.

And one day some Muslim blows up you and your family and says, "I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice due process for infidels. Let them get their due process from their fucking Jesus."

You are no different from them.

They already do that. Do you think they give any due process while separating an infidel head from the body? I have no desire to be nice to them. Fuck them.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Silly? How fucking evil do you have to be to consider fatal human medical experimentation, forced sterilization, and outright murder to be "silly"? Christ, man. These are Holocaust crimes. Did you think the Holocaust was silly, too?

He he he he. Relax.

So that's a yes, then?

No. That's a relax.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

11. Our government has illegally murdered its own citizens without trial or even charges including minors.

Awlaki comes to mind. Good.

That you would praise the murder of an innocent 16-year-old American is despicable. Murdering him and the other innocent minors eating dinner at a restaurant is abhorrent to anyone with integrity or morals. It was also cowardly.

If someone murdered a kid we have laws for that.
If he was a suicide bomber or something, I'm glad they killed him.

Dan8267 says

We aren't all willfully ignorant like you.

he he he. There might be something in that, I don't know. But it's really fun riling you up. :)

Strategist says

So what do we do?

There is no wisdom on what NSA is doing. Their actions are totally disproportionate to the threat.

As a result they destroyed trust:
- Default trust of the government in its people. (There will be plenty of false alarm).
- Trust of people in their government. (we are now in a country like Russia)
- Trust of people buying American hardware or American services.

Everyone will be suspicious. People will encrypt their communications just to defend their basic privacy. They will be defiant. Other countries will (1) do the same and (2) actively work to stop NSA. This will become an electronic war by default.

Every action creates a reaction. NSA created a giant mess.

One doesn't need to be a seer to understand that this lack of trust in the long run will cause far more arm to this country than any terrorist act it aims to prevent.

Strategist says

I have no desire to be nice to them. Fuck them.

ISIS is representative of millions of mushlims. There are more than a billion mushlims. Whatever you do, they will still be there when you're done. You can kill as many as you want. It changes nothing. In fact fighting them probably just reinforces their more radical elements.

(Unless of course you're ready to go all the way an massacre them all, but then you're a nutcase).

Strategist says

The government is not our enemy. It is OUR government. We elected it.

If you don't like the government vote for another one.

Not that simple- NO congressman or senator or Presidential candidate ran on a platform promising to spy on everyone.
The agencies are not responsive to the elective officials and as we have seen they spy on them too.

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

I have no desire to be nice to them. Fuck them.

ISIS is representative of millions of mushlims. There are more than a billion mushlims. Whatever you do, they will still be there when you're done. You can kill as many as you want. It changes nothing. In fact fighting them probably just reinforces their more radical elements.

(Unless of course you're ready to go all the way an massacre them all, but then you're a nutcase).

No one wants to kill a billion Muslims. We want to protect a billion Muslims and 6 billion other people from the crazy Muslims who do want to kill all of us.

Biden’s NSA Pushing Marxism & ‘Queer Theory’ onto Employees, Leaked Doc Shows

ISIS is representative of millions of mushlims. There are more than a billion mushlims. Whatever you do, they will still be there when you're done. You can kill as many as you want. It changes nothing. In fact fighting them probably just reinforces their more radical elements.