patrick.net

bob2356 says

thread is like the question how long does it take for the average women to achieve orgasm. who fucking cares.

Usually, when one announces that they don't want kids, society and parents tend to jump in and say ... though shalt!

For me, since my sister had a daughter, they'd stopped bothering me but then again, it's probably because the little one is such a monster/entitlement queen, much like her mom.

Now, I need to deal with society, as a whole.

I am in my 40's and personally don't have children, but for different reasons than stated above. First off, kids need a lot of attention and time to grow up developed and normal and I don't have much personal time to dedicate to this and it would be unfair to a child if I were his parent. Second, I don't like the direction this world is headed in and I would live in fear that my child may be left in a world not prepared well enough. I'm a product of the 70's and it's my belief that my generation represented the end of the cycle of growth our country has enjoyed. Children of my generation are the first to not live as well as our parents and this trend will continue in generations born after this. Society as a whole has become more warped and the values I cherish are dwindling, replaced with a more narcissistic type of self-absorbed citizen who cares only for self and sits on the sidelines when others suffer..

Rin says

errc says

How much time have you spent in the past, contemplating having children

It's more other ppl, contemplating when I'll have kids, and that started in my mid-20s.

Now, I'm in my mid-30s, established, and have zero interest in having kids.

Thus, I'm stuck making up silly excuses like "haven't found the one", yada, yada. Only on PatNet, can I be completely honest for my distaste for that stuff.

I think there are many men stuck in this box, telling others various excuses about why they don't have kids when they just plain don't want it. It's a shame when society puts pressure on us to be that which we are not....

To anyone who wants a small taste of what its like to have children without actually doing so I offer this bit of advice:

Contact your local animal rescue and offer to foster a litter of puppies or kittens.

Some parents will laugh but I can honestly say fostering a litter was good preparation for having kids, far better than carrying around a sack of flour or an egg for a week.

Its a least a 10-12 week commitment, not very long in the grand scheme of things. A good rescue will provide plenty of resources to help; you provide the room and the care. The latter can be controlled by the size of the litter and whether the litter has a mother. I'd highly recommend a litter with a mother to start. If you want a more involved experience ask for a motherless pre-wean. Be warned the feedings come often.

There can be a lot of heartbreak involved (including death!) but without your help the litter would likely have been put down in the shelter anyway. Watching the "kids" get adopted is also hard but you know they are going to good homes. Again a good rescue will give you final say over the process.

Its a lot of work but its rewarding and you will do some real good.

Another option for some is fostering human children but that is a LOT more work.

Rin says

This is the 2nd reason why I'd broken up with a Brazilian, since having kids is particularly important for many Brazilian women.

That's why you shouldn't date third world country women. Or if you do, only do so after the vasectomy, which you will not disclose.

HydroCabron says

Two kinds of women:

1) Say they want kids

2) Say they don't want kids, and want kids anyway

That's where a vasectomy really comes in handy!

mfs.admin says

I am in my 40's and personally don't have children, but for different reasons than stated above. First off, kids need a lot of attention and time to grow up developed and normal and I don't have much personal time to dedicate to this and it would be unfair to a child if I were his parent. Second, I don't like the direction this world is headed in and I would live in fear that my child may be left in a world not prepared well enough. I'm a product of the 70's and it's my belief that my generation represented the end of the cycle of growth our country has enjoyed. Children of my generation are the first to not live as well as our parents and this trend will continue in generations born after this. Society as a whole has become more warped and the values I cherish are dwindling, replaced with a more narcissistic type of self-absorbed citizen who cares only for self and sits on the sidelines when others suffer..

You forgot to mention how annoying kids are.

Reason enough not to have kids:
http://patrick.net/?p=1245338

Rin says

Now, I need to deal with society, as a whole.

Good luck with that

mfs.admin says

Society as a whole has become more warped and the values I cherish are dwindling, replaced with a more narcissistic type of self-absorbed citizen who cares only for self and sits on the sidelines when others suffer..

Well that sounds like people who don't want to have children and also sounds very European.

Strategic Renter says

Family is all that matters. Everything else is just noise.

That's tribal thinking.

Everything else is all of humanity.

zzyzzx says

Reason enough not to have kids:

http://patrick.net/?p=1245338

Just checked that link, Amen to that brother!!! I know of many people in this boat and many of them will never retire because of this. Sadly, it always seems to happen to the nicest people...

Heterosexuals.

bob2356 says

this thread is like the question how long does it take for the average women to achieve orgasm. who fucking cares.

This is a wound that is self-inflicted by liberal pussys.
Here's a tip: Grow some nuts for a day and just say "I don't want kids, you fuckin fuck".
Works every time.

mfs.admin says

I think there are many men stuck in this box, telling others various excuses about why they don't have kids when they just plain don't want it.

I didn't know male tittymilk was feline compatible.
Thanks for the education.

New Renter says

If you want a more involved experience ask for a motherless pre-wean. Be warned the feedings come often.

500 millions years of evolution and this is what you get. Lol.

I guess it was only a matter of time before some life forms become so smart, narcissistic and self-centered they decide they are the ultimate result of evolution and all that matters is their personal satisfaction, their wealth accumulation, their jobs - and (high-end) strippers of course.

Of course the flow of life doesn't care and will go on - with dumber people.

Ironically the other type of smart people are those who desperately want children but waited too long.

Tribal thinking is why you are alive typing today.
Why do you hate evolution?

Dan8267 says

Strategic Renter says

Family is all that matters. Everything else is just noise.

That's tribal thinking.

Heraclitusstudent says

Of course the flow of life doesn't care and will go on - with dumber people.

Well, my sister had a child and thus, the family genes will persist. As for the dumbness, yes, it's certainly on her side of the house.

SoftShell says

I didn't know male tittymilk was feline compatible.

Thanks for the education.

New Renter says

If you want a more involved experience ask for a motherless pre-wean. Be warned the feedings come often.

Its ALL tittymilk in some form or another

As I type, I am saying to myself "Thank Fuck my kid is asleep and I have a chance to read the news and have time to eat a sandwich and drink a coffee slowly." And I'm on vacation.

He has a helluva smile though.

I salute people who know they won't have kids - but I also agree with Heraclitusstudent. The morons and the superficial will bust them out due to inertia and lack of self-reflection. The very people who ought to be reproducing like Rin will have few or none.

@Rin, Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

I am thankful to the parents raising nice, ethical people. It can't be easy. As for me, I just try to be the best aunt and mentor I can. I have at least one young person I might be able to rely on if I live longer than I should.

thunderlips11 says

The very people who ought to be reproducing like Rin will have few or none.

Didn't Ben Franklin, sort of regretted having a son, William, as the kid was a loyalist throughout the revolution?

http://thehistoryinsider.blogspot.com/2012/07/ben-franklins-son-royal-governor-and.html

Plus, who remembers William, as oppose to Ben, a founding father?

rufita11 says

Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

Right now, I've got all the funds for a hospice service. As for families, plenty of kids have put their elders into a nursing home.

Rin says

Now, since many of my pals have had children and so forth, I'm absolutely astonished at how lame and boring these kids are. At best, they parrot TV shows and break toys, to the best of their abilities. In contrast, when I was a kid, I was dreaming of writing screenplays, inventing a lightsaber, and so forth.

If you don't want to have kids, that in itself is a good enough reason not to have kids. No need to justify the decision by pointing out that your friends have lame kids.

It's true that you "don't know what you're going to get" and that you can't be assured of a creative genius (in fact you can almost be assured of not having a creative genius), but you can certainly avoid the lameness you describe.

Has it occurred to you that your friends might be the lame ones here? Letting their kids watch TV and be boring idiots? I tend to think that if you did have kids you wouldn't let them be lame and boring in that way.

Do whatever you want...and by all means don't let yourself get pressured/tricked/guilted into having kids if you don't want them...

But to clear your calendar to so you can be the next Frank Lloyd Wright? Get over yourself.

Why not just put in a living will that should you experience mental or physical decline, a "do not help and let me croak" clause?
At that stage you are on your way out anyway. Why put yourself and others through the horror of a long death?
Sounds somewhat selfish to me....

rufita11 says

@Rin, Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

mfs.admin says

First off, kids need a lot of attention and time to grow up developed and normal and I don't have much personal time to dedicate to this and it would be unfair to a child if I were his parent.

The first part of that sentence is the proper attitude to have about raising children. Most people are too lazy or too stupid to dedicate the attention and time to raising children, so you get the Bieber/Spears types that HydroCabron is joking about.

Studies have shown that lower income people are particularly bad about this. The studies show that they tend to view marriage as "settling down" but don't think of having children as "settling down," so that's why they have kids out of wedlock so frequently. They don't view kids as something that gets in the way of their life, and that permeates their whole life and results in poor child-rearing:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/why-poor-women-dont-wait-for-marriage-to-give-birth/372890/

swebb says

Has it occurred to you that your friends might be the lame ones here? Letting their kids watch TV and be boring idiots? I tend to think that if you did have kids you wouldn't let them be lame and boring in that way.

This seems to be the operative point to me. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids, but don't use your lame friends' kids as an excuse -- just own it.

Rin says

rufita11 says

Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

Right now, I've got all the funds for a hospice service.

Wouldn't help much if someone wasn't raising that kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt, now would it?

SoftShell says

Why put yourself and others through the horror of a long death?

Sounds somewhat selfish to me....

We'll see how you do it when your time comes.

swebb says

Has it occurred to you that your friends might be the lame ones here? Letting their kids watch TV and be boring idiots? I tend to think that if you did have kids you wouldn't let them be lame and boring in that way.

Well, my parents did the above and only my sister turned out to be the idiot.

As for kids, now that I've been tutoring my friend's children in academics, as well as a few stints at HSs, I'm not convinced that I can impress my value system upon others. Either they have it or they don't.

swebb says

But to clear your calendar to so you can be the next Frank Lloyd Wright? Get over yourself.

That's exactly what Ben Franklin did, once he made his money.

He retired from the printing business and went into a life of studying philosophy, natural sciences, and of course, being an ambassador for the country.

corntrollio says

swebb says

Has it occurred to you that your friends might be the lame ones here? Letting their kids watch TV and be boring idiots? I tend to think that if you did have kids you wouldn't let them be lame and boring in that way.

This seems to be the operative point to me.

Would it be terribly churlish to mention the third possibility: that the kids are normal and it's all about how Rin perceives kids?

Rin says

Right now, I've got all the funds for a hospice service. As for families, plenty of kids have put their elders into a nursing home.

Just to add to that, generally ONE kid takes responsibility. The siblings either ignore the sick parent entirely, or criticize the caregiver from a comfortable distance, never doing any work themselves but always casting aspersions on the caregiver's choices and/or motives (ie She's doing it for the money).

The lack of Allo-parenting - our weird highly unusual nuclear families without grandparents, cousins, uncles, etc. that are anomalous to most of human history - might also be a reason for the onslaught of "Little Emperors".

corntrollio says

This seems to be the operative point to me. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids, but don't use your lame friends' kids as an excuse -- just own it.

This is PatNet. I can't make fun of my friends in front of them. That's what the internet is for.

rufita11 says

Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

If current trends continue, if I get old and need to pay someone to change my diaper, it won't be your kid who does it, it will be someone who can't speak English.

Plenty of kids have awful parents who are neglectful or uncaring or even malicious and capricious in their parenting of the innocents. Children have the fewest rights of any class, and I feel sorry for kids who are stuck with bad parents. If someone feels they wouldn't make a good parent, perhaps they should decline having kids, no matter what society thinks.

zzyzzx says

rufita11 says

Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

If current trends continue, if I get old and need to pay someone to change my diaper, it won't be your kid who does it, it will be someone who can't speak English.

Actually, it'll be cybernetic and yes, it'll speak more than just English.

Rin says

With that said, I have no incentive nor motivation to have my own. When I'm an old man, I'll be like Frank Lloyd Wright, constantly writing down ideas and working on things of interest without having a lifelong kid/adult sleeping near my study spaces.

Rin, let me share IMHO, the purpose of life:
The purpose of life is to play your part in the chain of evolution. It includes surviving, and ensuring the survival of your offspring, based on the principal of survival of the fittest.
You are missing out on one of life's greatest pleasure. A day may come when you are sitting alone in an armchair, it is Xmas, and your neighbors and friends are with their families celebrating the holidays. You will end up regretting the decisions you made in your youth.
I would reconsider. @rin

Rin says

Didn't Ben Franklin, sort of regretted having a son, William, as the kid was a loyalist throughout the revolution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Franklin

William Franklin (ca. 1730 – November 1814) was an American soldier, attorney, and colonial administrator, the acknowledged illegitimate son of Benjamin Franklin. He was appointed as the last Colonial Governor of New Jersey (1763–76). Franklin was a steadfast Loyalist throughout the American War of Independence. As his father (Benjamin Franklin) was one of the most prominent Patriots and a Founding Father of the United States, their differences caused an irreconcilable break between them.

Following imprisonment during the war, in 1782 the younger Franklin went into exile in Britain. He lived in London until his death.

But children are our future... if everyone thought like you we'd be extinct in a generation.

In all seriousness.. if you don't want to have kids that's perfectly fine! I actually think you should need to get a license to have children... required training, parental classes, and a mental health evaluation.

Strategist says

The purpose of life is to play your part in the chain of evolution. It includes surviving, and ensuring the survival of your offspring, based on the principal of survival of the fittest.

My sister has a child. My family's lineage has been preserved for the sake of posterity.

Now, that girl is a b*tch and her mom is hysterical. The dad, my brother-in-law, is best friends with a person named Jack Daniels.

Would I trade my current & future life, for his? Hell no!