patrick.net

Peter P says

There is no such thing as a false belief, especially for something unknowable/undecidable. But then I am a subjectivist.

Subjectivist... If you have the conscious experience of God you shouldn't call it faith.

Either way you have to bow to the fact that any rational method of learning about the physical universe will tell you there are no God in this physical universe.

Behind this veil of thoughtfulness you entertain the most primitive superstitious beliefs.

Heraclitusstudent says

Subjectivist... If you have the conscious experience of God you shouldn't call it faith.

We just have the humility to admit that we do not know.

I was a rationalist when I was 19. Reason can only get you so far.

Religion didn't disfigure her, Science did.
It's a natural reaction when acid meets skin.

Far more people have been disfigured by Dow and their Scientist than all of the wacko religious nut job Zealot that would throw acid in someone's face. Which is a small fraction of all the religious people in the world by the way.

Dan8267 says

No person worships evolution. Science is not a religion. The fact that the pro-religion crowd would take the Theory of Evolution and turn it into a philosophy of death says all you need to know about the religious frame of mind.

Hey! You're the Assholes that stepped in that pile of Shit.

If you're going to debate Unicorns with someone who believes in them, then you have entered the realm of defending Your own mythical beast.

This attitude, however, appears to me to be religious, in the highest sense of the word. And so it seems to me that science not only purifies the religious impulse of the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contributes to a religious spiritualization of our understanding of life.
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

- Al, circa 1941

At least we KNOW that all mermaids are redheads.

CaptainShuddup says

Religion didn't disfigure her, Science did.

Technology is neither good nor evil except how we use it. Religion has the tendency to cause technology to be used for evil as this case clearly demonstrates.

Do you really want the highly religious Middle East to have access to advance technologies like nuclear weapons and biological labs? Of course not. The religious don't mind the end of the world because it's in their prophecies.

CaptainShuddup says

Which is a small fraction of all the religious people in the world by the way.

Hundreds of millions does not constitute small peanuts. And as for the rest of the religious, the only difference is in degree, not correctness. Multitudes of religious demand that gays be denied basic human rights like marriage. Religion fucks with one's mind and causes bad politics.

CaptainShuddup says

If you're going to debate Unicorns with someone who believes in them, then you have entered the realm of defending Your own mythical beast.

The point is not to convince the unicorn believer that unicorns aren't real. That would be impossible. The point is to convince everyone else that the unicorn believer is an idiot who deserves no respect. This decreases the number of unicorn believers and their power to negatively influence legislation.

Peter P says

We just have the humility to admit that we do not know.

BS. If you don't know that there are no god in the physical universe, you also have "the humility" to admit that you don't know that the sky will be blue tomorrow - since this is inductive logic and there is no way to know if the universe won't change overnight. You're basically claiming you don't know anything.

If this is the extent of your "epistemology", it's a joke.

Peter P says

I was a rationalist when I was 19. Reason can only get you so far.

Behind your "humility", you are looking for is a license to be irrational, in order to defend the coarsest, most primitive superstitious beliefs.

Cosmos upset the liberty appreciators:

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.[57]

Al- Circa 1940s

Dan8267 says

Religion fucks with one's mind and causes bad politics.

Yeah Liberals are ones to talk. They've been totally useless in American politics for about 3 decades now, so the only way they can stay relevant. Is to get a black man elected then have him, peel the scab off an ancient Race wound.
Then claim racism is alive and well.

Dan8267 says

The point is to convince everyone else that the unicorn believer is an idiot who deserves no respect.

Then you've already lost every argument you put forth.

CaptainShuddup says

Dan8267 says

The point is to convince everyone else that the unicorn believer is an idiot who deserves no respect.

Then you've already lost every argument you put forth.

Respected scientists believed the gorilla to be a mythical creature until someone dropped a dead one on their dissecting table. The same all-knowing sages believed that the platypus was a clever fake, even when they had one to dissect.
Scientists of today commonly scoff at UFO sightings because they don't believe in intelligent alien life.
Until that day when an alien ship lands.

What will we know tomorrow that was impossible today? What cherished assumptions will be tossed aside like yesterday's trash? What shrill and condescending promoters of these trashed ideas who call all other voices "idiots" will be proven the useless blowhards that they are?

Quigley says

Respected scientists believed the gorilla to be a mythical creature until someone dropped a dead one on their dissecting table.

Jeez... let's forget the blatant lie that scientists scoff at the possibility of alien life....

You do realize that's the whole point of science, right?: not believing until you have in fact the facts dumped at your feet.

It doesn't mean that the people who believed without facts were not idiots.

Do you have any idea how many weird beliefs are being professed by idiots? Do you seriously think they are true by default without any facts? Ghosts? Big-foot? Zeus? Feathered snake? 9-11 conspiracies?

One must strive to live a truth-agnostic life.

One thing that we can definitely agree upon is that there is no "heaven for G." Thus, tupac lied.

Peter P says

One must strive to live a truth-agnostic life.

Right.
It's like: "I see my neighbor Joe is in his garden, but maybe it's not him: maybe he has a twin brother looking exactly like him and dressing like him. It can't be proven with 100% accuracy that it's in fact him. And better not buy a car since there is no proof that the engine will still work tomorrow. And better pray Zeus and the Feathered Snake just in case they in fact exist. And keep some of these silver bullets just in case you are attacked by a were-wolf."

Truth-agnostic life.... Do you even realize how stupid that sounds?

Why should we care if something is true? Life is like trading in the market. It is a stochastic game.

Peter P says

It is a stochastic game.

A probabilistic view is not an exemption from common sense.

That same 0.000001% chance assigned uniformly to unproven superstitious beliefs makes you 99.999999% atheist.

CaptainShuddup says

Yeah Liberals are ones to talk. They've been totally useless in American politics for about 3 decades now

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how bigoted and uninformed.

I can't remember the last time a liberal held an office of power. Maybe Jesse Ventura as governor, but nothing in the Senate comes to mind.

CaptainShuddup says

Dan8267 says

The point is to convince everyone else that the unicorn believer is an idiot who deserves no respect.

Then you've already lost every argument you put forth.

You're entitled to your speculation, but why should I believe your speculation is accurate when your facts are not?

Quigley says

Respected scientists believed the gorilla to be a mythical creature until someone dropped a dead one on their dissecting table.

Therefore, unicorns and the Loch Ness monster are probably real. The burden of proof is on the assertor.

We've already proved that every Big Foot sighting has been a hoax. If some species of ape is discovered and the person who finds it decides to call it Big Foot in order to garner more publicity, that doesn't make the myth of Big Foot any less bullshit.

Furthermore, it is a false dichotomy to say that a person is either close-minded to news possibilities or is naive enough to believe everything. The religious refused to be accept evidence. The skeptic demands evidence. I am a skeptic, and that's a good thing.

Quigley says

Until that day when an alien ship lands.

When that ship lands, I doubt the occupants will plead guilty to anally probing thousands of red necks.

Peter P says

One must strive to live a truth-agnostic life.

Now that should be the motto of Fox News: truth-agnostic.

One last thought... The peer-review process in science is brutal, but it is brutal for a reason. It is only by thoroughly attacking ideas that one can distinguish good ideas from bad ones. It is only by thoroughly attacking theories that one can have a high degree of confidence in them. Skepticism is good.

Heraclitusstudent says

Zeus?

I've heard enough just about enough Zeus bashing out of you!

sbh says

Dan8267 says

The burden of proof is on the assertor.

Now Dan, isn't it standard debate rules that the burden of proof is on the negative? It's been long time since high school, but I'm just sayin'......

Actually, the affirmative team has the burden of proof to affirm the year's resolution.

IMHO, the whole high school cross-ex debate thing was ruined by spreading a long time ago.

Strangely, there was an episode of The Simpsons in which Homer and Marge were in forensics and Homer did cross-ex debate. He mooned for rebuttal. That episode was brilliant because it so accurately portrayed all of forensics right down to the index cards the debaters used to use.

Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of The History of Fish?

Dan8267 says

Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of The History of Fish?

Google Books

Illustrations from the Royal Society

Dan8267 says

Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of The History of Fish?

http://phish.net/faq/history.html

Creationists get angry with Tysson over Faraday.

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/14/creationists_grow_increasingly_desperate_in_feud_with_neil_degrasse_tyson_partner/