patrick.net

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

What I AM defending is his right to say that it's a hoax without being called mentally ill.

He calls everything a conspiracy from JFK to 9/11 to Sandy Hook and more. At some point, you can't help noticing a pattern of paranoid delusions. Speculation based on statistics is, admittedly, only an educated guess. His problem might be drug-induced psychosis, paranoid schizophrenia, early Alzheimer's, or any of a number of other possibilities, but there is obviously a problem. "Debating" each of these "conspiracy theories" one at a time becomes a waste of time, especially when he spams the home page with multiple concurrent threads; at some point, you recognize you're talking to a drug or a disease.

I think singling bgmall out like this is unkind. If you truly believe that he needs help, I'm not sure how publicly humiliating him serves that purpose. It smacks more of trying to gang up on him. And if you truly believe that he's suffering from an illness, how would ganging up on him help him? How does getting a bunch of patnet members to call him names and accuse him of mental illness help him? If you truly think he's crazy, I would think that you wouldn't want to provoke him. However, distasteful you might find his position on some things, he has the right to express his opinions. Just like you do. If he bothers you so much just hit the ignore button.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

But I never made defense on his part that it is a hoax. I can't say it is and I neither can say it happened for sure.

The last two sentences are what I really defend. I'm not bias one way or they other.

Why do you think that is a worthy thing to defend? It's nothing to do with bias. It's to do with evidence, something which he seems to neither understand nor produce, or do you think two people arguing for and against the existence of fairies have equal credibility? What he does is create his conspiracy and then argue the most ridiculous nonsense that comes to mind in an effort to support it - porta potties, bottled water, people with vaguely similar looking pictures, someone not crying in an interview, his claiming fake crying from a picture etc. etc. Anyone who disagrees with him is a zionist/bankster/paid government troll/prick/moron etc. etc. I don't actually care if he is mentally ill or not, but he should give the repeated flooding of this forum with the SAME conspiracy nonsense a rest and that also most definitely includes his zionism/NWO guff (or should that really be his issues with Jews?).

jazz music says

congratulations on demonstrating the good character to defend bgamall's right to express his opinion

turtledove says

However, distasteful you might find his position on some things, he has the right to express his opinions. Just like you do.

Oh, so that's what we call 50 threads trying to sell the world how Sandy Hook is a hoax and a zionist plot to disarm America. Just a guy expressing his opinion.

I see.

I think some people here ought to head over to CIC's political leanings quiz and take it. Several of you purported "liberals" are going to be surprised by your results. Remember, when the quiz asks if you think media, internet, etc., should be censored, you must agree. If you select any other option, you should return to this thread and retract a few things.

Bigsby says

Why do you think that is a worthy thing to defend?

Because a true investigator sets aside any preconceived notions and beliefs they have before forming a conclusion. They look at both sides of the arguments very neutrally. And only form a conclusion based on pure logical merit and only that.

Forming an opinion before getting all the facts, all sides of the argument and the entire story from all angles will result in a very distorted world view.

Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones are also guilty of one sin too... Irrational Fear mongering to some extent.

Mass media like CNN and the like are also guilty of one sin too... Irrational Optimism regarding the economy to some extent.

The coins can reverse too.

Were you have Illuminati theorists believe they will become billionaires if they hoard Precious Metals and guns.

And at times of major stock market collapse... The mass media many times can blow the severity out of proportion because that sells. And big money traders love that because it crashes the prices more... So they can buy low and sell high.

The Founding Fathers of the USA would also strongly believe what I am defending to be worthy for civil rights in criminal prosecutions.

If a judge and jury formed an opinion based on nothing but sensationalized talk... All a tyrannical government would need to throw everyone in prison is a bunch of false rumors published in all the major publications.

Sadly, many defendants of crimes are founded guilty today but are either actually innocent or charged without sufficient evidence. Purely because everyone from the police, DA, judge and jury formed an opinion and made up their mind without a FULL clear investigation.

This is what also happens when you have prisons become private corporations interested in profit but veneering as serving justice.

So everyone involved is quick to damn anyone guilty for anything including nothing.

And those who are truly guilty end up serving justice not equal to the crime. You have individuals thrown decades in prisons for the most petty non-violent crimes with no previous criminal history.

All because of a lack of a clear neutral non-bias mindset of all parties responsibly to determine the justice in a court of law.

turtledove says

Remember, when the quiz asks if you think media, internet, etc., should be censored, you must agree. If you select any other option, you should return to this thread and retract a few things.

What the.....?

I never implied that I think anyone should be censored here. Including me when I call someone out for being some combination of crazy and stupid, and posting repeated threads with ridiculous conspiracy theories.

The following is closer to advocating censorship than anything i've said in this thread.

turtledove says

If you truly believe that he needs help, I'm not sure how publicly humiliating him serves that purpose. It smacks more of trying to gang up on him. And if you truly believe that he's suffering from an illness, how would ganging up on him help him?

I think he needs to know how ridiculous and yes even offensive it is, for him to repeat that conspiracy claim.

Explain with your sources, facts, figures, documented accounts and other relevant evidence why Bgamall's claims are not sound.

Rebuttal exact arguments, defenses, sources, figures, facts and other information cited by Bgamall on why his claims according to him are sound.

Do not say "He is wrong" "He is mentally ill" "He is posting too many conspiracies therefore he is wrong"

Explain fully, logically, factually, justifiably and each point Bgamall as raised prove it wrong with some sort of rationale. It could be a source, an account, a testimony, documents, government documents, FBI documents... Encyclopedia sources... anecdotal evidence.

Just don't go around with a cheap generic rebuttal attacking his personal health... "He is wrong because I think he has this schizophrenic mental ailment even though I'm not a qualified doctor to make that diagnosis and even If I was I would need to see him face to face with blood work, many tests, screening and even brain scans but I did none of that and I'm on the internet breaking FEDERAL HIPAA laws regarding patient privacy and committing possible libel against someone who can sue me for it. "

Marcus, Okay, what is the purpose of this thread? Bgmall's been singled out, people have called him crazy, told him he needs help, medication, etc... Now I'm no expert on "interventions," but I'm almost certain this isn't how they go. Therefore this isn't meant to be an intervention. It's mean spirited teasing. Now what would one hope to accomplish with such a targeted attack? Surely you don't want the person to stick around. So if we're trying to make him leave by making him as uncomfortable as possible -- because we don't want to see his fifty Sandy Hook threads -- isn't that a back door attempt at censorship?

turtledove says

So if we're trying to make him to leave by making him as uncomfortable as possible -- because we don't want to see his fifty Sandy Hook threads -- isn't that a back door attempt at censorship?

+1

You just exposed the hypocrisy in all those singling out bgamall and shouting personal claims about his mental wellness or lack of.

Good Job.

turtledove says

So if we're trying to make him to leave by making him as uncomfortable as possible -- because we don't want to see his fifty Sandy Hook threads -- isn't that a back door attempt at censorship?

It never occurred to me that he might leave, but I can appreciate the thought that he might wise up, or have a moment of clarity (ie embarrassment) and simply stop.

I think the reason for this thread is that he routinely deletes peoples comments on his threads if they tell him what they really think, with respect to how truly insane his claims are.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Because a true investigator sets aside any preconceived notions and beliefs they have before forming a conclusion.

That's not the point, is it? We know the facts of the case. We have general access to relevant evidence. We can see what Gary is arguing. It isn't an issue of 'I can't say it is and neither can I say it happened for sure.' It's an issue of looking at the known evidence and drawing a conclusion based on the weight of the evidence. Everything else you are talking about is a different and unrelated issue of not drawing a conclusion BEFORE you have looked at the evidence.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Explain with your sources, facts, figures, documented accounts and other relevant evidence why Bgamall's claims are not sound.

Most of the claims are too stupid to respond to. "That person in the video isn't grieving right." What the fuck?!!

What did they do ? Pay off all the first responders ? Maybe they threatened their families ? Perhaps those that engineered the whole thing got there first and told the local authorities, "back off, we've got this." And of course this story didn't get out. In fact they talked the local authorities in to pretending that they were involved. Wow, those Zionists sure do have a lot of clout in ALL locoal governments and all media.

Since you insist.

humanity says

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-sandy-hook-victims-not-in-social-security-death-index.3186/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/23/this-is-theblazes-point-by-point-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory-debunk/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory-video-debunked_n_2487427.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/18/your_comprehensive_answer_to_every_sandy_hook_conspiracy_theory/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/02/10-conspiracy-theories-about-sandy-hook-shooting-debunked-2568320.html

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Explain with your sources, facts, figures, documented accounts and other relevant evidence why Bgamall's claims are not sound.

Rebuttal exact arguments, defenses, sources, figures, facts and other information cited by Bgamall on why his claims according to him are sound.

What exactly do you think has been going on (and on) in his hoax threads? He simply does not accept the points made because his actual arguments aren't evidence. How do you rebutt porta potties and bottled water being evidence of a hoax? It is a ridiculous evidence free argument in the first place. How do you rebutt his claim that the teacher is an actor because 'these two images look the same' ACCORDING TO THE PERSON MAKING THE CLAIM? That isn't evidence. That is a baseless assertion that can be treated as such. And on and on it goes.

There's no point to this thread, but Gary has started threads of a similar type, so he is no innocent in all of this.

marcus says

Most of the claims are too stupid to respond to. "That person isn't grieving right." What the fuck?!!

What did they do ? Pay off all the first responders ? Maybe they threatened their families ?

But since you insist.

+1

That's all you need to rebuttal someone. No need to resort to name-calling or claims of someone with ill health.

And that goes for bgamall too.

marcus says

What did they do ? Pay off all the first responders ? Maybe they threatened their families ?

That's a good argument. Without a very complex super-computer scanning human emotions of the families...

It is very hard to say if the tears and crying was fake or not.

And there is no sound proof to say it was fake.

Even computers can get it wrong.

Bigsby says

What exactly do you think has been going on (and on) in his hoax threads? He simply does not accept the points made because his actual arguments aren't evidence. How do you rebutt porta potties and bottled water being evidence of a hoax? It is a ridiculous evidence free argument in the first place. How do you rebutt his claim that the teacher is an actor because 'these two images look the same' ACCORDING TO THE PERSON MAKING THE CLAIM? That isn't evidence. That is a baseless assertion that can be treated as such. And on and on it goes.

There's no point to this thread, but Gary has started threads of a similar type, so he is no innocent in all of this.

If this has been the case, than I completely agree.

Just two photos is not enough to say they are the same two people. Many people can look like the same person with just two deceiving photos.

The population is huge in the world.

marcus says

Perhaps those that engineered the whole thing got there first and told the local authorities, "back off, we've got this." And of course this story didn't get out. In fact they talked the local authorities in to pretending that they were involved. Wow, those Zionists sure do have a lot of clout in ALL locoal governments and all media.

Well that scenario is possible but I don't have any evidence so therefore I can't approve of it being the truth.

Marcus...

Those were very good rebuttal links. Bgamall should rebuttal all points raised by those links with GOOD explanation.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Marcus...

Those were very good rebuttal links. Bgamall should rebuttal all points raised by those links with GOOD explanation.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

That's all you need to rebuttal someone. No need to resort to name-calling or claims of someone with ill health.

I think he needs to know that he sounds far worse than foolish and stupid. He sounds like he needs professional help. Why is it so worong to think that this could get through to him.

When people are so totally far out of touch with reality how do they usually find out ? Isn't it because people tell them ?

"hey dude, you sound flat out over the top insane !!"

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Marcus...

Those were very good rebuttal links. Bgamall should rebuttal all points raised by those links with GOOD explanation.

Uh robber baron, perhaps you are not aware but bgmal hasn't rebutted a legitimate point since he's been here. He deletes them then repeats what he said in the first place or ignores them totally. I think he's a just a troll shilling his ebooks.

bgmall has the right to express his view of the world however much you disagree with that view. Believe it or not, people who constantly push the envelope and ask questions (even questions that seem ridiculous to others at the time) are important to keeping balance in this country. Just like those bastard lawyers who sue over everything. They have pushed the legal envelope for decades. They make a lot of senseless noise and waste lots of money, time, and resources. But you have to admit that it is because of these scummy lawyers that big companies are on notice about product responsibility. Imagine if we didn't have these lawyers constantly pushing the envelope.

You have the right to respond to bgmall or ignore him. If you feel that, as a moderator, bgmall is irresponsible because he deletes opposing viewpoints then don't participate on threads that he moderates. You have the power to remove him from your sphere of consciousness. Use it!

bob2356 says

I think he's a just a troll shilling his ebooks.

This is the most likely case, and that's more offensive than if he is insane and unable to see what common sense should tell him is obvious.

He is essentially marketing to the insane.

I couldn't care less what Turtledove and Robber think, you are a very sick and pitifully sad man.

I'm sorry, but the people with the Sandy Hook and 9-11 theories have enjoyed plenty of free speech here and everywhere else.

Less radical (and more plausible) theories get far less air time here. I just don't buy the victimization narrative of their persecution.

Saying that all viewpoints should be heard is not the same as indulging the endless rantings of flat-earthers.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Marcus...

Those were very good rebuttal links. Bgamall should rebuttal all points raised by those links with GOOD explanation.

Sounds as if you haven't read many of his threads.

bgamall enjoys his fantasies so much, he really should check out David Icke.

On his websites he can learn about how GWB, and is an alien shapeshifter (reptilian actually).

There's all kinds of stuff on the internet about the illuminati, or the Masons,, bohemian grove, etc, not to mention the various aliens that are in competition for control of this planet and humanity.

You will never run out of entertaining far fetched scenarios that are as believable or more believable than the ones you choose to believe.

What's your criteria for the ones that you do latch on to Bgamall ?

Is it that they have to be especially ridiculous? Your biggest reasons have to be things like "oh he put his sun glasses back on" or "the blood is too red" (by the way, when the is a lot of blood, expodsed to the air, it is that red) or or "those people aren't grieving right"

Perhaps it's the Zionist bit that get's your attention. Someone says "it'steh Zionists" and instantly you're hooked ?

Seriously. What is it that makes some of this nonsense believable to you, and not others ?

Did we go to the moon ?

Is Elvis dead ?

IS Paul McCartney the same as the original Paul McCartney ?

How about global warming,...is it real ?

Is Flouride in the water a part of some mind control scheme ?

Are reptilen aliens running our world ?

How do you decide which bs to believe and which to dismiss ? Is it when someone puts together a blog or video with confidently narrated questions that you get hooked ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZeUATEARk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtnYQVoLVfA

It's true that the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. But that does not mean that we should just randomly latch on to the first fiction that someone throws in front of us.

marcus says

Is Flouride in the water a part of some mind control scheme ?

OMG! I totally made you write that!