patrick.net

E-man says

Dude, I didn’t say any of that stuff. You quoted the wrong guy. ;-)

I was quoting goat. Dunno what happened.

E-man says

also get to give family and friends, who are into saving the planet and driving priuses, a hard time for driving an ICE car.

Hahaha

E-man says

This is what Larry had to say about Elon Musk "You know, he's landing rockets on robot drone rafts in the ocean, and you're saying he doesn't know what he's doing. Well, who else is landing rockets? You ever land a rocket on a robot drone? Who are you?"

Lol, good quote.

just_dregalicious says

E-man says

also get to give family and friends, who are into saving the planet and driving priuses, a hard time for driving an ICE car.

Hahaha

Interesting world we now live in, where the Prius driver is the carbon spewing, planet killing pig.

Strategist says

Something is off here. A level 2 charger will charge between 20 and 20 miles per hour for an all electric car.

This is the charging table for the Bolt:

- DCFC (50kW): 90mi/30m or 160mi/h
- DCFC (25kW): 45mi/30m or 90mi/h
- DCFC (12.5kW): 22.5mi/30m 45mi/h
- 220V@32A (7.04kW): 25mi/h or 8h31m-------(This is the advertised 9 hour full charge with a Level 2 charger at 32 amps)
- 220V@24A (5.06kW): 18mi/h or 12h------------(If I buy a Level 2 charger, this is the best I can do because I only have a 30 amp circuit and will charge at 24 amps)
- 220V@16A (3.52kW): 12.5mi/h or 17h
- 220V@12A (2.88kW): 11.42mi/h or 20h50m-----------(I will get this charge when I get my 220 to 120 adapter cord and plug into the stock charger that comes with the car)
- 120V@12A (1.44kW): 5.7mi/h or 41h40m ------------(This plug comes with the car and is what I am currently using, enough to keep me topped off)
- 120V@8A (0.960kW): 3.8mi/h or 62h30m

E-man says

I love the regen so I only charge to 80-90%.

I've only driven about 100 miles in the Bolt and i can't get enough of the regen. Such a better way to drive. Especially with hills (which I have plenty of). The Bolt will come to a complete stop even coming down a steep hill. I picked up 4 additional miles driving 5 miles out of my neighborhood down to the freeway!

I went surfing this morning and took my wife's minivan and it felt so weird (and wrong) to coast and have to hit the brakes at traffic lights. I can't believe how quick I am getting used to one pedal driving.

socal2 says

E-man says

I love the regen so I only charge to 80-90%.

I've only driven about 100 miles in the Bolt and i can't get enough of the regen. Such a better way to drive. Especially with hills (which I have plenty of). The Bolt will come to a complete stop even coming down a steep hill. I picked up 4 additional miles driving 5 miles out of my neighborhood down to the freeway!

I went surfing this morning and took my wife's minivan and it felt so weird (and wrong) to coast and have to hit the brakes at traffic lights. I can't believe how quick I am getting used to one pedal driving.

What I have learned is that the gas car drivers don’t appreciate the regen feature. They’re not familiar with it. Whenever I give it to one of the friends or family members or neighbors to test drive it, I have to disable the regen feature as they’re not familiar with it, and they feel it’s jerking the car when they let the acceleration pedal go.

Man, once you drive a Tesla, all other cars feel so outdated. Even my wife’s 2017 MDX feels outdated to me when I’m driving it. When I’m driving our spare car, the 2007 MBZ E350, it feels so ancient. We’re getting rid of it in Jan. No need for a spare car. We get a loaner every time we take the car in for a service.

Enjoy. These EVs will only get better from here. All thanks to Elon for doing what the dinasour car companies said was not possible. Honda and Toyota should do well once they make the inroad with EVs. With their reputation, the EVs will sell themselves.

Porsche claims that they have a year worth of pre-orders and Tesla owners are the top Taycan reservation holders.

Previously, Porsche was reportedly planning to produce about 20,000 Taycan vehicles per year.

The company recently said that it might increase planned production of the Taycan all-electric vehicle as demand soared.

Zellmer said that more than half of the reservation holders are new to Porsche and the top brand they are coming from is Tesla:

“More than half of the people that are signing up for the Taycan have not owned or do not own a Porsche. Typically, if we look at our source of business, people coming from other brands, it’s Audi, BMW, or Mercedes. The no. 1 brand now is Tesla. That’s pretty interesting, to see that people that were curious about the Tesla for very good reasons obviously don’t stop being curious.”
Recently, Zellmer said that what Tesla did is ‘truly astonishing’.

The German premium automaker has had a weird relationship with Tesla as it moves its own first all-electric vehicle program forward.

Earlier this year, Porsche said that ‘Tesla is not a benchmark for them’ in the development of the Taycan, but the company was spotted benchmarking Taycan test mules with a Tesla Model S P85D.

Porsche CEO Oliver Blume also admitted that Tesla is stealing away some customers and they are clearly trying to position the Taycan against the Model S.

You can trash talk about Tesla all you want. “The no. 1 brand now is Tesla.”

socal2 says

- 220V@32A (7.04kW): 25mi/h or 8h31m-------(This is the advertised 9 hour full charge with a Level 2 charger at 32 amps)

This is the one I use. ChargePoint. It has worked perfectly in the last 3.5 years that I have had it.
32 Amps. I get just about 25 miles per hour.

HeadSet says

Interesting world we now live in, where the Prius driver is the carbon spewing, planet killing pig.

My son drives our 2011 Prius. I call it a gas guzzler now.

Bentley takes a page out of Porsche’s playbook as it plans to lure over Tesla buyers.

Whether you love Tesla or can’t stand the company — perhaps due to the antics of CEO Elon Musk — there’s no getting around the fact that the company may very well go down as one of the more influential car manufacturers in history.

In light of that, another luxury automaker influenced by Tesla’s ongoing success is Bentley. During a recent interview with Automotive News Europe, Bentley CEO Adrian Hallmark relayed that he’d like to broaden Bentley’s reach to include hyper-wealthy “upper liberals” who tend to be drawn to EVs from the likes of Tesla. As a result, Hallmark said that Bentley is planning to dive head-first into the EV realm.

E-man says

Whether you love Tesla or can’t stand the company — perhaps due to the antics of CEO Elon Musk — there’s no getting around the fact that the company may very well go down as one of the more influential car manufacturers in history.

Not liking Tesla just because the CEO said something is silly. It's the same fucking car.....Hello?
The negative articles on Tesla and Musk that have recently swamped the media are sheer nonsense, most likely funded by those who would be hurt by the end of fossil fuels. Even the SEC probe seems to have an agenda in my opinion. No matter how much Big Oil tries to suffocate electric cars, they cannot and will not succeed. They may have US corrupt politicians in their pockets, but they do not have all the countries determined to end fossil fuels in their pockets.
Lets face it.....New technology that is more efficient, economical, and does more good will always end up replacing old technology that is not needed anymore. Those who are not open to welcoming new technologies are welcome to live like cave men on an island. Who knows, they may even discover fire.

Patrick says

One reason I'm interested in Tesla is because I'm a firm believer that solar will replace oil soon, being limited only by battery technology. And Tesla makes more money from batteries than from cars.

Any other companies positioned to efficiently store solar power?

You guys crack me up, all telling what a great value a Tesla car is, or is not, how electric cars cost 3 cents per mile, etc.

Patrick was interested in opinions not about the Tesla sedan but the stock. On the premise that solar will replace oil, and growth in Tesla batteries to store solar power.

I don't think solar will REPLACE oil. Augment, displace, etc. Not REPLACE. Certainly there will be growth in solar, and in batteries. I worked with a guy who was shopping for a kerosene generator to send to his folks in Puerto Rico after the hurricane. There will be lots of demand for that sort of stuff for decades even as solar gets built out.

A purchase of TSLA stock is a bet on Elon Musk, one of the geniuses in our lifetime. Do you wish you own stocks in a company that is being run by Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos. The question is what is your buy-and-hold time horizon? How much are you betting on it? Is the bet significant enough to change the course of your life if it turns out to be right or wrong? If not, call it gambling money and make a bet.

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction. Is that enough for you to invest in the company.

I made an equivalent bet 9 years ago, and it has changed the course of my life forever. I bet that bet on real estate. The initial goal was to buy 10 rentals valuing around $1.5-$2M using a method called BRRRRR. Buy an asset for below market value, rehab, rent out, rinse and repeat. 4 years into it, I said why settle at $2M? Why not make it $5M? When I hit that mile stone, I said why $5M and not $10M? Then I hit that mile stone too. Then I talked my wife into rewarding myself with the car I’d had my eyes on.

Once you control $10M worth of real estate in the Bay Area, your net worth is increasing at a rate of $700k+/year based on historical data of 6% annual appreciation in the last 50 years and over $100k in principal pay down and over $100k in net cash flow after all expenses. Even at an average 3% annual rate of appreciation. You’re not doing too shabby.

I shared with you the story about tennis friend who bet his whole life savings and 401k on one stock, TSLA, in its infancy. He watched the stock market kept going up and up and up while TSLA stock did nothing for almost 3 years. Do you have the conviction to do the same?

Life is too short to make small bets - CEO of Soft Bank. ???

B.A.C.A.H. says

I don't think solar will REPLACE oil. Augment, displace, etc. Not REPLACE.

Funny. If you were born 120 years earlier, you would be saying cars will never REPLACE horses as a main form of transportation.
If a new technology is cheaper and more efficient, it will always replace older technology. It's called progress.

E-man says

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction. Is that enough for you to invest in the company.

Tesla isn't a car. It's a spaceship from the future.

E-man says

A purchase of TSLA stock is a bet on Elon Musk, one of the geniuses in our lifetime.

Interesting, they said the same thing about John DeLorean.

E-man says

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about.

Really, how many people out of 320 million would that be?

MrMagic says

E-man says

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about.

Really, how many people out of 320 million would that be?

They said that about the cell phone not long ago. Sigh!

I kinda agree with Warren Buffett when he says Apple should not buy TSLA. Warren is not always correct, but I believe him when he says everybody and his dog will make an electric car. Also, the self-driving car will mean that fewer cars are sold. One car will be able to serve 5 people. I don't own a car anymore. I use UBER and trains and busses and maybe I'll try a LIME (maybe NOT!). And, added hazard, you gotta realize Chinese competition will be fast and ferocious. SAIC BAIC BYD all have better financials than Tesla.
They already, make sub $35K cars profitably. Even some that are sub 20K... (note: thanks to Charlie Munger, Buffett has an interest in BYD). But, hey, BRK.b is a bargain at this moment! :)

E-man says

Life is too short to make small bets - CEO of Soft Bank. ???

Survivorship bias.

This is a low resolution algorithm guaranteed to fail most people. You are correct though, for someone to go fron normal life savings to rich betting the farm on one risk exposure is a strategy. We have a pat.net contributor doing that w weed stocks now.

Tesla Slides on Report of Over 3,300 Model 3s in Inventory

(soon to be a lot more)

Can you say "Pump and Dump"?

The end of the year push to try and sell vehicles using a $7,500 Federal tax credit as a bargaining chip appears to be falling flat on its face for Tesla. A new report by electrek published on New Year’s Eve says that Tesla still has over 3,300 Model 3 vehicles in its U.S. inventory, which sent the stock sliding lower by about 2% in morning trading.

Elon Musk
✔ @elonmusk

Reminder to US buyers that the $7500 tax credit drops in half in about 48 hours. Order online at http://Tesla.com or visit a Tesla store to see if there is any inventory left in your region

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-31/tesla-slides-report-over-3300-model-3s-inventory

Great comments at the link:

DennisR:
29 minutes ago
How is this company still a thing and trading as a $60B entity?


Pool Shark:
20 minutes ago
Because Tesla fanboys are innumerate.

That’s why Elon has been so psychotic lately; he’s trying every publicity stunt to detract attention from Tesla’s bottom line: Shooting cars into space, Claiming he will retire on Mars, Turning underground L.A. into Swiss cheese, Offering submarines and then labeling those that refuse them ‘Pedophiles”, Buying dirt in China...

It’s all a diversion.

”Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!”

MrMagic says

The end of the year push to try and sell vehicles using a $7,500 Federal tax credit as a bargaining chip appears to be falling flat on its face for Tesla. A new report by electrek published on New Year’s Eve says that Tesla still has over 3,300 Model 3 vehicles in its U.S. inventory, which sent the stock sliding lower by about 2% in morning trading.

Wow. No one wants those rotten, useless cars. It's a complete failure.
Oh wait a minute, they have so much demand they can't keep up with the deliveries. LOL. LOL. ROFL.

Even from the useless zero brain website....."This, again, comes on top of recent news that Tesla is now has offered to shell out cash for those who have who will miss the full tax credit benefit due to delivery problems "

From a more reliable source:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-over-3-000-model-154918912.html
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) had over 3,000 Model 3s left in inventory in the United States as of Sunday, automotive news website Electrek reported on Monday, citing people familiar with the matter.

The electric-car maker has been urging buyers to make use of the federal tax credit, with Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk reminding them on Twitter https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1079172996793651200 on Saturday that the benefit would drop to half beginning 2019.

The report https://bit.ly/2R5Ii1G, citing sources, said while the automaker is expected to deliver some vehicles on the last day of the year, it is not possible for Tesla to go through the whole inventory.

Shares of the company fell nearly 2 percent after the report. Tesla was not immediately available for comment.

Tesla had earlier said it was "doing everything" to ensure those who ordered a vehicle as late as Dec. 20 could take deliveries by Dec. 31, with Musk promising to reimburse customers if delivery delays cause them to miss out on a significant tax credit.



Earlier this year, Tesla said orders placed by Oct. 15 would be eligible for the full tax credit of $7,500 and that customers would receive their cars by the end of the

Shame on you you, Magic. How could you?

They need to turn consitently profitable soon without accounting gimmicks.

Strategist says

Tesla had earlier said it was "doing everything" to ensure those who ordered a vehicle as late as Dec. 20 could take deliveries by Dec. 31, with Musk promising to reimburse customers if delivery delays cause them to miss out on a significant tax credit.

A very honest company founded by a man who is not human. He will go down in history as the man who destroyed Big Oil, and brought the Saudi Kings to their knees.

When I took delivery of the Tesla, I signed 2 or 3 pages, had already uploaded my drivers license and insurance information, and transferred the money to them online.
Took 5 minutes to wait in the lobby, 3 minutes to sign, and 20 minutes for the hot lady to show me the basics and safety features of the car. No bullshit, no hassles, no upselling garbage.
** I asked the hot lady to give Elon Musk a big hug for me, and to thank him on my behalf for making the world a better place to live in.
Thank You Elon, Happy New Year to you.

I think their stock already priced that in.

mell says

They need to turn consitently profitable soon without accounting gimmicks.

Strategist says

Tesla isn't a car. It's a spaceship from the future.

This is sounding like my dad's geriatric DeLorean fans talking. And yes, those did look like spaceships which is why Doc Brown put his flux capacitor in one and the kid back in the 1950s thought there was an alien invasion.


bill says

I kinda agree with Warren Buffett when he says Apple should not buy TSLA. Warren is not always correct, but I believe him when he says everybody and his dog will make an electric car. Also, the self-driving car will mean that fewer cars are sold. One car will be able to serve 5 people. I don't own a car anymore. I use UBER and trains and busses and maybe I'll try a LIME (maybe NOT!). And, added hazard, you gotta realize Chinese competition will be fast and ferocious. SAIC BAIC BYD all have better financials than Tesla.

Buffet definitely sees the market for self-driving vehicles clearly. I'd even say that my experience, as an executive, is that that I don't enjoy driving and would rather be chauffeured from place to place while eating, drinking alcohol, reading, or listening to some music or lectures. And my company pays for my limo service. Eventually, the average person will be having a robotic livery service, shuffling him around all day, without having a huge bank.

Right now, Tesla's primary market penetration is for the luxury sports car demographic and in particular, the ones in west coast markets where the weather is warm and ppl like to show off their vehicles in the sun, much more that in the east, where there's snow/sleet/ice, and this massive multi-state daily gridlock between Boston MA and Richmond VA where charging stations regularly have ppl shouting obscenities at each other since no one has the time for a bay.

When want to be alone, I'd much rather drive my Accord, which is right now gathering dust in the basement garage (since I don't have a need it for it, for my daily routine), than be in a shouting match on i-95. I can always rent the Porsche for a joyride.


https://www.gothamdreamcars.com/exotic-car-rental

mell says

They need to turn consitently profitable soon without accounting gimmicks.

Exactly. He can't make money on the Model 3 at $50K - $60K, but he wants everyone to believe he'll be profitable with $35K Model 3s... because he'll make it up on volume, right Fanboys?

Strategist says

A very honest company founded by a man who is not human. He will go down in history as the man who destroyed Big Oil, and brought the Saudi Kings to their knees.

Where have I seen this type of FanBoy-ism.... Let me think.... Oh yeah, like this:

MrMagic says

Where have I seen this type of FanBoy-ism.... Let me think.... Oh yeah, like this:

Still, cellphone .... make that mobile computing, is a viable long term market, which isn't disappearing though it may evolve into clothes, eye wear, upholstery, etc, instead of a handheld device.

In contrast, a car is still just that, a mode of transportation. Ppl needs transportation tools, to get from point A to B, not an expensive toy.

And there's a huge difference between $1K and $50K for the average consumer.

Rin says

Still, cellphone .... make that mobile computing, is a viable long term market, which isn't disappearing though it may evolve into clothes, eye wear, upholstery, etc, instead of a handheld device.

That's true, but the original Apple fanboys felt it was worth it to pay DOUBLE for a iphone versus an Android..... Just because...

Rin says

In contrast, a car is still just that, a mode of transportation.

Exactly, but the Tesla fanboys think it's worth it to buy a Tesla versus a Volt (see my comparison with the iphone).

Rin says

And there's a huge difference between $1K and $50K for the average consumer.

and there's a huge difference between a $60K Model 3 and a $30K Volt, yet they both get you from Point A to B.

MrMagic says

Tesla still has over 3,300 Model 3 vehicles in its U.S. inventory,

I'll take one of these off Elon's hands today. But for no more than $35K USD.

MrMagic says

and there's a huge difference between a $60K Model 3 and a $30K Volt, yet they both get you from Point A to B.

And don't forget the $17K Corollas & Civics, which also get the job done, saving even more money for gas.

MrMagic says

pay DOUBLE for a iphone versus an Android

That's fashion statement stuff, like paying $400 vs $200 for a pair of shoes.

Rin says

MrMagic says

and there's a huge difference between a $60K Model 3 and a $30K Volt, yet they both get you from Point A to B.

And don't forget the $17K Corollas & Civics, which also get the job done, saving even more money for gas.

Absolutely... that $30K - $40K savings on the car purchase will pay for a hell of a lot of gas.... and you don't have to wait 8 hours to "fill" your tank when empty.

Rin says

That's fashion statement stuff, like paying $400 vs $200 for a pair of shoes.

Welcome to the world of Tesla owners!

CBOEtrader says

E-man says

Life is too short to make small bets - CEO of Soft Bank. ???

Survivorship bias.

This is a low resolution algorithm guaranteed to fail most people. You are correct though, for someone to go fron normal life savings to rich betting the farm on one risk exposure is a strategy. We have a pat.net contributor doing that w weed stocks now.

Low resolution algorithm or not depends on how we think. Our thinking is limited by our knowledge and our knowledge is limited by our understanding.

I had this convo with my wife. Here are 3 choices to go through life assuming we have 50 years after college:

1) Work hard for 10 years to set ourselves up financially. Then take it easy and enjoy life for the next 40 years.
2) Take a government job and work for 25-30 years and retire with a pension for another 20-25 years. In general, one would feel the pinch after a decade as the COLA would be lagging behind inflation.
3) Work for a private sector for 40 years and retire with less for the last 10 years of our lives unless we get lucky working for a unicorn company and hit it big with stock options.

We chose option 1. As I get deeper into this option, I realized that we are much more capable than we think we are. We just don't push ourselves hard enough. In fact, we don't know what we are capable of. My initial goal was to have a $2M real estate investment portfolio and let it grow over time. Then 2 years into it, I revised it to $5M as it feels so attainable. Then I met my partner and now we're having a $24M real estate portfolio together. We sat down and said we could easily 10x this number if we want to. The question is how hard do we want to work and at what cost? We're feeling a little overwhelm with our current holding and looking to hire a full-time handyman even though we have a full-time property manager.

If anyone asked me this question 5 years ago, I would have said it's crazy, but now it seems so doable. For this, I admire Elon Musk greatly. He could have retired after the sale of PayPal and enjoyed life with $170M. Instead, he took the money and plowed it into Space X and Tesla. The man is on a mission. His personal life has suffered due to his work ethics. For people to say this man is a con artist is just sad. If I have to make a bet between Elon vs. Someone else, I know where my bet would be.

MrMagic says

Rin says

That's fashion statement stuff, like paying $400 vs $200 for a pair of shoes.

Welcome to the world of Tesla owners!

Many of them really, are borrowing from their future earnings, by wasting it today. Most ppl can recover the temporary loss on overpaying for a pair of wing tipped Oxfords but nearly every Corolla owner makes out like a bandit in terms of gas and maintenance costs.

mell says

They need to turn consitently profitable soon without accounting gimmicks.

Accounting gimmicks? There are huge capital expenditures for building factories and supercharging stations across the country. To be profitable, the company just had to scale back its capital expenditures. Elon already said the company would stay profitable going forward so there's no reason not to believe the man. Watch Tesla will be profitable this 4th quarter again.

Rin says

Strategist says

Tesla isn't a car. It's a spaceship from the future.

This is sounding like my dad's geriatric DeLorean fans talking. And yes, those did look like spaceships which is why Doc Brown put his flux capacitor in one and the kid back in the 1950s thought there was an alien invasion.


bill says

I kinda agree with Warren Buffett when he says Apple should not buy TSLA. Warren is not always correct, but I believe him when he says everybody and his dog will make an electric car. Also, the self-driving car will mean that fewer cars are sold. One car will be able to serve 5 people. I don't own a car anymore. I use UBER and trains and busses and maybe I'll try a LIME (maybe NOT!). And, added hazard, you gotta realize Chinese competition will be fast and ferocious. SAIC BAIC BYD all have better financials than Tesla....

@Rin,

Thanks for the link. Ted Kennedy's wife rented an Aston Martin for a weekend to fulfill his dream? Wow....

A car is a lot more than taking a person from point A to point B. I don't want to be like one of those people who just rents an exotic car on a weekend. I want more than both. I want a car that not only takes me from point A to point B, but a car that I enjoy driving everyday, not just on the weekend. Tesla fits the bill. After 15 months of owning it, the car still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. What say you @Strategist and @gsr?