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zzyzzx says

Florida’s Condo Prices Are Falling As Cost of Insurance and HOA Fees Skyrocket

Nominal to profile. Every 10-15 years...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPgpYux8HJQ

AmericanKulak says

Florida’s Condo Prices Are Falling As Cost of Insurance and HOA Fees Skyrocket

Our Panama City Beach townhome HOA master insurance is holding steady from 2022 to 2024. It went up from $50,000 in 2018 to $230,000 in 2022.

It is now around $250,000 in 2024.

The insurance company told the HOA board of directors there are more competitors coming to the Florida insurance market and they expect no more +20% increases per year.

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FL Condo Act now forces boards to inspect and repair or reserve for known future repairs.

The fallout:

American Kulak, as far as Florida boomer demographics, is that because the older boomers are dying off in Florida and you see that much of a cumulative drop by 2035 ?

Look at south Florida like Boca Raton with the elderly Jewish population originally from the northeast...they were spotlighted in the November 2000 as far as making mistakes with the butterfly ballots

one theory why Trump did well in 2016 and 2020 in Palm Beach County was that a lot of those Jewish people died off and were not replaced with liberal voters

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Insurance AINT going down in Florida, and here's why:

Citizens Property Insurance Corp., Florida’s residual but still-largest property insurer, has posted new information about when and where flood insurance is required for policyholders.

The Florida Legislature last year approved Senate Bill 2A, making big changes to laws governing claims litigation and requiring most Citizens’ policyholders to also obtain flood insurance within three years. The idea, supporters of the bill said, was to help push homeowners back to the primary market and help protect Citizens from legal disputes over wind-versus-water damage.

This year, lawmakers revised the law slightly to exclude policyholders who own condominiums on upper floors.

The bulletin from Citizens, posted Aug. 22, explains the phase-in of the flood requirement:

Starting in January 2024, all structures with a replacement value of $600,000 must obtain flood insurance.
The value requirement of the structure drops until 2027, when all Citizens-covered structures, regardless of value, must maintain flood coverage.
The insurer said it will soon send more information to agents, including a list of their affected policies.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2023/08/24/737718.htm

This will include structures NOT in a Flood Plain.

AmericanKulak says

FL Condo Act now forces boards to inspect and repair or reserve for known future repairs.

yeah well think about what happened when that Surfside (North Miami Beach) condo parking structure collapsed resulting in at least 80 deaths

one thing that surprises me is that the condo's master insurance company did not send out inspectors to check the condition of that building and threaten to cancel the policy based on their inspections

We lived in a 2 story condo building at Bay Point in Panama City Beach and the master insurance company would walk and inspect the buildings every year doing everything from checking the roofs from the inside attics to checking fire extinguisher inspection tags .... they forced the HOA to fix a sidewalk that was being lifted by tree roots

By the way, as a completely clean driver, my FL auto went up almost 20% last year, too. I shopped around and I have the best rate by almost $50/year.

AmericanKulak says

This will include structures NOT in a Flood Plain.

Yes, I knew Citizen Insurance was going to do that. I think its going to reduce the cost of flood insurance overall since it will at least increase the number of homes insured with flood insurance by at least 200%.

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AD says

one thing that surprises me is that the condo's master insurance company did not send out inspectors to check the condition of that building and threaten to cancel the policy based on their inspections

They actually did, it started with water pouring into the underbuilding garage. The Assoc hired structure inspectors who identified the pilings problems years before collapse.

The Condo President actually quit because at the meeting to vote on raising money to slowly make repairs, a few years before the collapse, some old wise ass gave a long "Listen Jack, I'm Not paying! It'll be Fine and I'm a Fixed Income Malarky! I ain't givin' up my trip to the Conch Shack each week to pay for this fibbletegibble! " and got a majority to vote with him.

AmericanKulak says

some old wise ass gave a long "Listen Jack, I'm Not paying! It'll be Fine

I hope he died in that collapse. If not, he needs to be publicly outed or doxed, and then shamed for the rest of his life.

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This is very common in Florida, esp. older buildings/assocs.

These geezers act like they're choosing between dog food and not eating over $50 extra bucks a month to fix things over the long haul, when it's really about that extra trip to Conchy Joe's or a new Golf Bag. Lots of these guys have old school pensions of 65% last 3 years salary plus guaranteed COLA on top of investments on top of selling a home up North they brought for $30k for $200k.

Even in trailer parks, they'll push for a card reader so no whippasnappas drive faster than 30mph and overturn their golf cart (which they are speed demons on), while leaving the State park-adjacent fencing gone on half the back of the property, so all the meth heads wander at night. Since they fall asleep after Wheel of Fortune, they don't notice the zombies prowling about.

Not all old folks are like that but some of the geezers are cheap and have plenty of time to fight their corner for their Saturday Hard Rock Casino outing with the girls.

AmericanKulak says

The Condo President actually quit because at the meeting to vote on raising money to slowly make repairs,

I am surprised the insurance company did not red flag that building and monitor it going back several years when the inspectors identified the problems.

That is a red flag as they should have cancelled the policy early enough.

Then the condo HOA would have to shop around and likely be forced to make the repairs as contingency to getting adequate coverage from the insurance company.

Don't know if you all remember when that Titanic submersible imploded there were emails leaked after that disaster which cited that the CEO who died in that implosion had said he did not want American Bureau of Shipping to be the classification authority because it employs "old white men who are US Navy veterans".

That goes to the same context as far as insurance and classification ; ABS would have shut that submersible down until it met certain safety standards.

Yeah, the laws were pretty loose here.

I don't even think Condo Assocs of 8+ Story buildings were obligated to get inspections, except in the CITY of Miami and a few other places, at ANY intervals. I say CITY of Miami because it wasn't a Miami-Dade County Law, and Miami Beach is it's own City seperate from Miami.

The new law sets either a 25 or 30 years since construction mandated inspection, problems or no problems.

We're seeing problems now from the 80s Cocaine Condo Construction Binge, and a lot of developers rammed through some pretty lenient laws for seaside high story buildings.

AmericanKulak says

old school pensions of 65% last 3 years salary plus guaranteed COLA

The only source I can think of this is either federal government pensions CSRS (not FERS), which means they were hired before Reagan's second term.

Or its a state pension like New York.

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AD says

AmericanKulak says

old school pensions of 65% last 3 years salary plus guaranteed COLA

The only source I can think of this is either federal government pensions CSRS (not FERS), which means they were hired before Reagan's second term.

Or its a state pension like New York.

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Yep. I know a guy who retired in the 2000s and worked for NYS since the 1960s. I saw his check and it was $6k something. But there's a lot of retired military or MIC contractors with big checks or two decent checks (military and Boeing/Lockheed) every month, plus investments, Soc Sec, etc.

He's a flaming Liberal and everytime I pass by, PMSNBC is on.

AmericanKulak says

MIC contractors with big checks or two decent checks (military and Boeing/Lockheed) every month, plus investments, Soc Sec, etc.

Lockheed (or Lockmart) as well as the rest of the major MIC's like Boeing stopped their defined pension plans and went 401k path at least 35 years ago.

So you are talking people who worked at Lockmart from 1950 to 1985 and got 25 years of pension credit.

The "military guys" can get a military pension for +20 years of service plus a VA disability (if rated at least 50% then not deducted from military pension) plus get social security.

This guy who worked for NY State since 1960s has to be at least 75 years old.

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AmericanKulak says

80s Cocaine Condo Construction Binge

Understand.

I just know before the Surfside building collapse, that in Panama City Beach the insurance companies would hire and send in professional engineers along with general contractors to inspect the condos from roof to foundation.

The insurance companies usually have on speed dial or retainer what you call "forensic engineers" which were mostly PEs with civil engineering background or mechanical engineers who could perform civil engineering work. These are the engineers they would send in once a year to inspect their buildings.

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AD says

Lockheed (or Lockmart) as well as the rest of the major MIC's like Boeing stopped their defined pension plans and went 401k path at least 35 years ago.

As a member of the military industrial complex, I can confirm that I don't have a defined benefit pension here.

My county in Virginia just sent out assessment notices. Massive increase averaging about 25%, mine was actually 36% which means my real estate tax will be about $2,000 higher next year. I plan to go to the next county board meeting just to see the reaction from all these citizens who will also see massive tax increases. I am sure the county supervisors are dreading the April meetings.

My prop taxes went down in Idaho about 20%. Amazing how that never happens in a blue state.

HeadSet says

My county in Virginia just sent out assessment notices. Massive increase averaging about 25%, mine was actually 36% which means my real estate tax will be about $2,000 higher next year. I plan to go to the next county board meeting just to see the reaction from all these citizens who will also see massive tax increases. I am sure the county supervisors are dreading the April meetings.

They are trying to catch up with the increase in home market values ? I know some counties are slow to increase the assessment rate when home values increase a lot.

Virginia should not be bad off due to all the federal guvmint money there (active duty, federal civil servants, military industry / Newport News Shipyard, etc) especially compared to California's budget deficit for 2024. Also tourism is a sizeable industry in Virginia, go to the vineyards starting about 50 miles west of downtown Washington DC like Crysallis Vineyard and drink Sarah's Patio Red.

Florida has a law called Save Our Homes (SOH). It is a property tax cap amendment to Florida's constitution, homestead property assessments can't increase more than 3% from the previous assessment period. (The cap for non-homestead properties is 10%.)

The trick in Florida is when you sell your home the buyer has a period of non homestead exemption which can range from 1 day to 364 days depending on when the county starts accepting new applications for homestead exemption. That is when the county can issue a 10% increase in the property tax instead of a 3% increase.

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Nothing says prices going up quite like free money. Biden's proposing $10000 in free money for 1st time homebuyers and $10000 to the people who sell their homes that have a mortgage.

As a special freebie offer for illegals $25000 in down payment assistance.

It's only your taxes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/biden-has-a-plan-to-make-homeownership-more-affordable-here-s-what-it-could-mean-for-hopeful-homebuyers/ar-BB1jzVXY?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1d4564ac011f45c88696c3c60ba42747&ei=143

Misc says

Nothing says prices going up quite like free money. Biden's proposing $10000 in free money for 1st time homebuyers and $10000 to the people who sell their homes that have a mortgage.

As a special freebie offer for illegals $25000 in down payment assistance.

It's only your taxes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/biden-has-a-plan-to-make-homeownership-more-affordable-here-s-what-it-could-mean-for-hopeful-homebuyers/ar-BB1jzVXY?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1d4564ac011f45c88696c3c60ba42747&ei=143

These are designed to keep the prices of home high.

AD says

This guy who worked for NY State since 1960s has to be at least 75 years old.

He is, I'd say about 80.

The peak birth year for boomers is 1957, so we are now past almost all Boomers being Soc Sec eligible.

Now it's time for bum knees, COPD, strokes, and heart attacks that make walking up to the 2nd story of the Condo Building or Townhouse or rare FL SFH being out of reach (breath?)

Add the explosion in condo assoc fees from needed reserves, insurance increases, etc. and it's prime selling time that can't be delayed.

AD says

Florida has a law called Save Our Homes (SOH). It is a property tax cap amendment to Florida's constitution, homestead property assessments can't increase more than 3% from the previous assessment period. (The cap for non-homestead properties is 10%.)

Only if the CPI is below 3%. If it isn't, it doesn't apply. It also doesn't cover several local rates/taxes.

Homeowners who receive the homestead exemption also benefit from the Save Our Homes assessment limitation, which caps increases in assessed value at 3% or the rate of inflation, whichever is lower. So even if you own a home in a hot housing market, your taxes won’t skyrocket (unless one of your local government bodies increases rates).

https://smartasset.com/taxes/florida-property-tax-calculator

Also, buyers should be very careful of the taxes, many who brought a FL house for $250k and were told the taxes were $1000 based on a 1995 locked in assessment get a big surprise the net year.

ROCKET MORTGAGE SHUTS DOWN ORIGINATION DEPARTMENT
Rocket to shut down origination channel for real estate and insurance agents
All real estate agents, insurance agents and other financial pros must submit new mortgage applications by March 29, 2024

https://www.housingwire.com/articles/rocket-to-shut-down-origination-channel-for-real-estate-and-insurance-agents/

Rocket was the largest retail lender, and largest online lender.

This country is a financial joke to the max. F'ng clown world.

GNL says

This country is a financial joke to the max. F'ng clown world.

I would say the 80's and 90's that the economy was remarkable. Look by 1999 how the internet became a major part of economy and society.

The economy has produced achievements since then but its also been susceptible to Wall Street bubbles and housing inflation.

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AD says

GNL says

This country is a financial joke to the max. F'ng clown world.

I would say the 80's and 90's that the economy was remarkable. Look by 1999 how the internet became a major part of economy and society.

The economy has produced achievements since then but its also been susceptible to Wall Street bubbles and housing inflation.

.

But now there isn't any gift the government isn't willing to waste money on.

AmericanKulak says

ROCKET MORTGAGE SHUTS DOWN ORIGINATION DEPARTMENT
Rocket to shut down origination channel for real estate and insurance agents
All real estate agents, insurance agents and other financial pros must submit new mortgage applications by March 29, 2024

https://www.housingwire.com/articles/rocket-to-shut-down-origination-channel-for-real-estate-and-insurance-agents/

Rocket was the largest retail lender, and largest online lender.

This is paywalled so I'll have to wait for Housing Wire daily podcast to interview James Kleiman (author and editor at Housing Wire) but I don't think this impacts Rockets Mortgage Business in any material way. I read it as they are sun setting an old software package that is used by a tiny fraction of the profession. Certainly there are alternative software suites in use by Loan Officers.

I suspect the transactions are so low volume, they're not bothering to offer the origination channel.

I know it doesn’t fit the narrative for some folks here who believe this place is a shithole. Given it’s ranked one of the best places to live, I can’t imagine where they live would be called. 🤔

https://abc7news.com/san-jose-us-news-and-world-report-25-best-places-to-live-ranked-number-4-in/14496724/

Eman says

I know it doesn’t fit the narrative for some folks here who believe this place is a shithole. Given it’s ranked one of the best places to live, I can’t imagine where they live would be called. 🤔

https://abc7news.com/san-jose-us-news-and-world-report-25-best-places-to-live-ranked-number-4-in/14496724/

I'm sorry man but I lived in San Jose for almost six years and really disliked it. Ridiculous traffic, terrible schools, insanely expensive, massive salad bowl of multiculturalism where people stay segregated, total lack of community, no real city identity.

The only thing going for it was the weather and jobs.

porkchopXpress says

Eman says

I know it doesn’t fit the narrative for some folks here who believe this place is a shithole. Given it’s ranked one of the best places to live, I can’t imagine where they live would be called. 🤔

https://abc7news.com/san-jose-us-news-and-world-report-25-best-places-to-live-ranked-number-4-in/14496724/

I'm sorry man but I lived in San Jose for almost six years and really disliked it. Ridiculous traffic, terrible schools, insanely expensive, massive salad bowl of multiculturalism where people stay segregated, total lack of community, no real city identity.

The only thing going for it was the weather and jobs.

Maybe reach out to the surveying company and tell them their surveying method is BS? I didn’t believe the result either, but I don’t get to decide. Just want to share the other side of the coin.

According to Apartmentlist.com, over half of the 15 steepest rent declines YoY Feb23-Feb24 were in Florida, followed by Texas.



Keep in mind February is peak Snowbird.

The COVID shelter states will lead the way in housing & rental declines in the coming Recession.

Eman says

I know it doesn’t fit the narrative for some folks here who believe this place is a shithole. Given it’s ranked one of the best places to live, I can’t imagine where they live would be called. 🤔

https://abc7news.com/san-jose-us-news-and-world-report-25-best-places-to-live-ranked-number-4-in/14496724/

Eman, most likely, most of us here are over 50. That means the 70s are our most fond memories. So, that's a memory mix of childhood freedom, the actual level of freedom, homogany and less income inequality (I don't really like that word) than now. Would you let your 3rd and 4th grader run the neighborhood without you knowing where they were? Including a few blocks away at friends homes that your parents don't know? We did this and it wasn't weird at all.

Question: can a place be the least shifty place but still be a shifty place? I know I call the US a shithole but it's mostly because of what I remember + how bad the government has become. And I believe it's going to continue to get worse.

Eman, we've come from a time when plenty of blue collar men got married, had kids, a house, healthcare and retirement while the wife stayed home and raised the kids. And everyone in America loved America. And those that came assimilated and didn't come just to take advantage of a shitty communist government. It sure seemed like it anyway.