patrick.net

richwicks says

The S. Ossetian / Georgian conflict happened during the Olympics in Beijing, probably to specifically embarrass Russia because Saakashvili was the US' OBVIOUS intelligence asset.

Aaand... the flood ensued. You asked for examples, I gave them to you, and you are trying to push back with RT talking points. You should know that RT talking points are recognized for what they are. Hey, just for kicks, which theory do you support regarding MH-17? That US shot it down from the space, or that it was full of dead bodies from the get go, or another one from the dozens that Moscow have offered back in a day?

richwicks says

You view a disagreement in conclusions, in your belief, as being a "mistake" on my part.

Untrue. You've challenged the fact, not the conclusions. You've challenged an easily verifiable fact, were corrected, didn't accept, ended up saying that you'd "do more research", and disappeared into the sunset.

Although I did make a mistake above regarding which fact it was. It wasn't about maternal side (you made a mistake there too, which is why I remembered it, but it's not the relevant part) The statement on which you were challenged was that "Israel doesn't recognize converts to Judaism." - I had to look up that conversation. Here: https://patrick.net/post/1339233&offset=#comment-1753699 This makes more sense because it undermines your talking point about "ethnic state inherited through the maternal line".

HunterTits says

Ukraine is Europe's problem. Not ours.

Putin's problem, the Democrats in America elected a big fucking retarded Pussy, and that shit is Putin's now.

The EU fags can go suck a dick! Voting has consequences. Get to your local Rave and drag Boris Johnson out, and tell him to go fight Putin.

HunterTits says

Who cares?

Ukraine is Europe's problem. Not ours.

No Russian ever called me a Toxic White Male.

3 of the G7 are European Countries: France, Germany, Italy. Together they outmatch and greatly out perform Russia in Population, Industrial Capacity, and Economy.

Excuse me, 4 of the G7 if you include the UK.

No need for us to get involved.

Isn't it funny how the same guy who rants in every other thread about how wrong was US invasion of Iraq based on pretext of WMDs is suddenly very understanding and supportive of Russia's "right" to invade or even annex Ukraine (and any other neighboring country they wish to invade or annex) based on non-existing (not to mention non-feasible) US plans to invade Russia via Ukraine?

=))

richwicks says

I give dates for a reason, to prove I know what I'm talking about. The S. Ossetian / Georgian conflict happened during the Olympics in Beijing, probably to specifically embarrass Russia because Saakashvili was the US' OBVIOUS intelligence asset.

Funny how Olympics play a vital role in Putin's actions.

Russia annexed Ukraine after the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. They spent millions sprucing the place to create a nice place for the Winter Games. And what did the Western Media and Press do? They crapped all over the effort, the ridiculed every out of place plumbing pipe they could find, and then made it out to seem that every dwelling in Russia was built by a Redneck construction outfit that has only one 5 gallon bucket of tools.

It's deplorable the way the Western Press gets away with going to Olympic host nations, and slander and talks shit about them. Xi, didn't appreciate that every misspelled word and typo also was skewered and ridiculed in the press. It will be interesting if the new World Order Press, that is owned lock stock and barrel by Xi and the CCP, will ridicule China during the Genocide Games.

I bet they wont get anything but glowing reviews, about how they really spruced up the place.


But seriously while the Cunts on the View were laughing about the Construction anomalies, and Plumbing not up to US building codes, Putin was annexing Ukraine.

Who's laughing now?

richwicks says

I give dates for a reason, to prove I know what I'm talking about. The S. Ossetian / Georgian conflict happened during the Olympics in Beijing, probably to specifically embarrass Russia because Saakashvili was the US' OBVIOUS intelligence asset.

Ooooh, poor, defenseless Russia threatened to be invaded and occupied by the mighty Georgian army with their TWO tanks and 18 APCs. =))

IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE!!!! PUTIN NARROWLY AVERTED ANOTHER BURNING OF MOSCOW!!!!

Gotta protect the Soros Color Revolution, drug and human trafficking corridor, or Hunter's gonna have to sell a lot more art.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

The S. Ossetian / Georgian conflict happened during the Olympics in Beijing, probably to specifically embarrass Russia because Saakashvili was the US' OBVIOUS intelligence asset.

Aaand... the flood ensued. You asked for examples, I gave them to you,

Are you REALLY comparing Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine to the US' destruction of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan? I remember when our "news" was claiming that Russia "invaded" Ukraine and were showing video and pictures of JOINT military exercises with Ukraine. Any incursion, if it happened at all, was short lived it didn't go on for a decade. They aren't the LEAST bit comparable, and you know that.

mostly reader says

and you are trying to push back with RT talking points. You should know that RT talking points are recognized for what they are.

I do. They are the go to propaganda of the United States. Anybody that doesn't want to restart the fucking Cold War and end up in a nuclear arms race, is a Russian bot. I'm very familiar with this trite, and obvious propaganda and smearing. It's pathetic.

mostly reader says

Hey, just for kicks, which theory do you support regarding MH-17? That US shot it down from the space, or that it was full of dead bodies from the get go, or another one from the dozens that Moscow have offered back in a day?

Most likely shot down by Ukraine in an accident. Some people have pointed out that the MH17 looked a lot like Putin's plane



But I'm doubtful. I also remember the spliced audio that was pieced together that our "news" media cited as proof that Russia shot it down, where they didn't even bother to check the audio - 1/2 of which was stereo audio, and the other 1/2 was mono. Do you remember that? I think Ukraine just F'ed up.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

You view a disagreement in conclusions, in your belief, as being a "mistake" on my part.

Untrue. You've challenged the fact, not the conclusions. You've challenged an easily verifiable fact, were corrected, didn't accept, ended up saying that you'd "do more research", and disappeared into the sunset.

If you are referring to Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine, it's not an established fact. Since my government has decided to lie, so often, nothing they say can be taken as being true. They have no credibility and I just showed you two examples of that. My position is that if the US government didn't have to lie to support a narrative, they wouldn't.

mostly reader says

Although I did make a mistake above regarding which fact it was. It wasn't about maternal side (you made a mistake there too, which is why I remembered it, but it's not the relevant part) The statement on which you were challenged was that "Israel doesn't recognize converts to Judaism." - I had to look up that conversation. Here: https://patrick.net/post/1339233&offset=#comment-1753699 This makes more sense because it undermines your talking point about "ethnic state inherited through the maternal line".

In limited instances they do. It does change from time to time. I've been following it since the 1990's. I don't really care about Israel, it's a fucking mess with a constant changing playing field. I can't keep up with their bullshit, and it's not worth it anyhow. They have the absolute support of the United States and I just accept that now. There was a bit of a brewhaha over the US "moving" their embassy to Jerusalem under Trump - in truth, it had been there for ages, they just officially recognized that the building they had been using for DECADES was now "the US embassy".

There's no serious attempt to resolve the conflict, there will never be a two state solution (would be trivial to do that today right now by having Israel declare their borders), the Palestinians will be either driven out entirely from the West Bank or just killed in time. There will be no reintegration of the two people.

Eric Holder says

Isn't it funny how the same guy who rants in every other thread about how wrong was US invasion of Iraq based on pretext of WMDs is suddenly very understanding and supportive of Russia's "right" to invade or even annex Ukraine

I'm not supportive of it. I'm just pointing out that US should stay out.

IF the US didn't overthrow Ukraine, none of this bullshit would be happening. The MAIN reason the US overthrew Ukraine was to make certain they didn't make an economic deal with Russia, and for them to become indebted to the ECB while at the time time taking control of the Odessa-Brody pipeline, and preventing (or at least delaying) the Nordstream II. None of this bullshit has anything to do with human rights or nonsense like that. It's purely a political play.

Eric Holder says

(and any other neighboring country they wish to invade or annex) based on non-existing (not to mention non-feasible) US plans to invade Russia via Ukraine?

Pfft - there's no invading Russia now. It would just end up in a nuclear holocaust in a few weeks, if not days. That's something that might have been last feasible in 1950.

Eric Holder says

Ooooh, poor, defenseless Russia threatened to be invaded and occupied by the mighty Georgian army with their TWO tanks and 18 APCs. =))

PLEASE, do not strawman me. Again, the purpose of overthrowing Ukraine was to hurt Russia mainly. Crimea is Russia's only warm water port and the Odessa-Brody pipeline goes through Ukraine. There's a reason that not just Hunter Biden is on the "BOD" of Burisma, but a ton of other kids of politicians did after the US coup. Now the US can control energy shipments to Europe, and blame Russia when THEY turn it off.

Eric Holder says

IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE!!!! PUTIN NARROWLY AVERTED ANOTHER BURNING OF MOSCOW!!!!

Do not strawman me.

This is economic interest. Russia could just say "fuck it" and turn off the pipelines and start shipping to China if they wanted. The US' fear is that Russia can kneecap Europe easily - and they can.

The main reason the US went to war with Syria was to put in a pipeline from the Golan Heights to Turkey - that's Genie Energy handling that. Ever look up who is on their "Strategic Advisory Board"?

https://governamerica.com/documents/genie-energy/?source=patrick.net

That's why Europe was begging the US to go in. I say fuck Europe. If Europe wants energy, let them go to war with it. I still contend it makes much better sense for the United States to simply tell the Europeans to fuck themselves, and make alliances with Russia and if Europe doesn't like that, well:



There's that. Europe is a white elephant. They don't have any natural resources to speak of, and they are bankrupt anyhow because of stupid socialist policies.

Come to think of it, that might be happening. If the US were stabbing Europe in the back, they certainly wouldn't be advertising it. It's nice to fantasize that the assholes in charge really gave a fuck about this country, but it's difficult to imagine. The last 20 years of wars were just a waste of money, and didn't do a single thing for this nation.

richwicks says

Again, the purpose of overthrowing Ukraine was to hurt Russia mainly.

How exactly? Does independent Poland "hurt Russia" too? What about independent Finland? How was Georgia "threatening Russia" - a fucking nuclear power even fucking US is apprehensive to tangle with?

Do you understand how ridiculously it all sounds (and how exactly it mimics RT propaganda)?

Even fucking case against Iraq was stronger than what you (and Putin) are spouting: Saddam did openly harbor Palestinian terrorists, did refuse to allow inspectors to his weapons sites, and chemical weapons were eventually found in Iraq in 2007 (old stock, but they wasn't supposed to have any of it).

richwicks says

They don't have any natural resources to speak of, and they are bankrupt anyhow because of stupid socialist policies.

They were a treasure trove of Cultural and Early human Artifacts, and Natural history significance.

Tenpoundbass says

richwicks says

They don't have any natural resources to speak of, and they are bankrupt anyhow because of stupid socialist policies.

They were a treasure trove of Cultural and Early human Artifacts, and Natural history significance.

Sure, that will keep people warm, and well fed!

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Again, the purpose of overthrowing Ukraine was to hurt Russia mainly.

How exactly? Does independent Poland "hurt Russia" too? What about independent Finland? How was Georgia "threatening Russia" - a fucking nuclear power even fucking US is apprehensive to tangle with?

I already explained this. The purpose of taking control of Ukraine was to hinder Russia's energy exports to Europe, and to deprive them of their only warm water naval base. That's how it hurts them.

What is the purpose of bringing up Finland? I never claimed Georgia was "threatening Russia". Russia doesn't want to have to deal with some piss ant former satellite state having a war on its border.

Eric Holder says

Do you understand how ridiculously it all sounds (and how exactly it mimics RT propaganda)?

I have no idea what RT sounds like. I don't listen to fucking propaganda much.

richwicks says

The purpose of taking control of Ukraine was to hinder Russia's energy exports to Europe, and to deprive them of their only warm water naval base. That's how it hurts them.

This is bullshit right there: Ukraine had a contract to keep transporting Russian gas well into the future. They kept transporting Russian gas even after they were attacked. They prolonged that contract while the war is still going on. They now insist on keeping transporting Russian gas and asking Germany to ensure it will keep going. There is literally no evidence they ever wanted to stop that transit. You are gaslighting.

On the port: they had lease agreement on that port till 2042. There is no proof they were planning to renege on it. Russian operation to take over Crimea started in late February before new Ukrainian government could voice any opinion on that agreement because it wasn't even formed then. You are gaslighting again.

And, BTW, they have other ports on the Black Sea - it's not "the one, the only" port there.

Attacking somebody based on paranoia and speculation is not self-defense, not legal and not moral. You pride yourself on your moral positions when it comes to US use of force but have an enormous blindspot when it comes to Mother Russia. Isn't it interesting?

From now on I consider you position on Iraq war to be fake outrage.

@Patrick: this richwiks guy is so aligned with Russian propaganda he might be a member of "50 kopeks brigade" assigned to your site. :)

richwicks says

Are you REALLY comparing Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine to the US' destruction of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan?

Don't strawman me: I'm not comparing anything. I'm not having whataboutism conversation either. You asked for examples and I gave them to you.

richwicks says

I do. They are the go to propaganda of the United States. Anybody that doesn't want to restart the fucking Cold War and end up in a nuclear arms race, is a Russian bot.

I never stated that you are a Russian bot. I may give it some possibility, but to me it seems more likely that your mental process is corrupted: avoiding propaganda from one side, you fell right into the arms of a much cruder version of it on the other side.

richwicks says

Most likely shot down by Ukraine in an accident. Some people have pointed out that the MH17 looked a lot like Putin's plane

Of course "some people pointed out". https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mh17-seven-years-of-lying-and-denying/?source=patrick.net - it's right there, right after "They were already dead" and before "Spanish dispatcher Carlos". Kremlin bots worked overtime in those weeks, flooding the space with versions and demanding debates around each one of them, no matter how crazy. Meanwhile, even the military unit to which the BUK belongs was identified (it was the Russian 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade) You know what other planes look similar? Most of them, of that size and application. You spread a story which is based on nothing except photo similarity of the two planes, yet ignore the fact that there were no Ukrainian BUKs within the reach. I may not call you a Russian bot, but I would totally understand the reasons of someone who would.

richwicks says

If you are referring to Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine, it's not an established fact.

Please. It's not an established fact only to someone who swallows RT hook line and sinker. And no, I wasn't referring to that. I thought I made it absolutely clear. I referred to your misinformation about whether Israel recognizes conversion to Judaism in the context of immigration.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

The purpose of taking control of Ukraine was to hinder Russia's energy exports to Europe, and to deprive them of their only warm water naval base. That's how it hurts them.

This is bullshit right there: Ukraine had a contract to keep transporting Russian gas well into the future.

The United States wants to prevent Russia from exporting oil into Europe, because Europe would become dependent on that energy import. So that old contract, that was with the OLD regime. Russia recognizes this, which is why they have the Nordstream II which is AVOIDING Ukraine, and why they have the Turkstream.

Remember when Turkey shot down the Russian Sukhoi Su-24, and then machine gunned the pilot as he was descending with a parachute? That ended relations with Russia and Turkey for a bit and stopped the Turkstream construction. I'm sure the US establishment was very happy to see that. Russian citizens stopped going to Turkey for vacation, and Turkey's economy contracted by 20% in that year. Putin asked for nothing more than an apology from Erdogan, which Erdogan eventually gave, the Turkstream was back on BUT then Erdogan suddenly faced a coup attempt. Erdogan fingered Fetullah Gülen as the leader of the coup, who resides very coincidentally in Virginia today.

https://goo.gl/maps/Au7rCP5xJnPPC5gj6?source=patrick.net

Pretty nice place.

Eric Holder says

They kept transporting Russian gas even after they were attecked. They prolonged that contract while the war is still going on. They now insist on keeping transporting Russian gas and asking Germany to ensure it will keep going.

The United States doesn't give a shit what the Ukranians want, that's why they have infiltrated all their energy companies.

Eric Holder says

You are gaslighting.

Gaslighting is when you make a person doubt their own memory and experiences. Like, if your wife showed up late from work a month ago, and during an argument she denied that ever happening and calling you crazy for thinking that - because she's cheating on you. That's gaslighting.

Eric Holder says

On the port: they had lease agreement on that port up into 2047 (iirc). There is no proof they were planning to renege on it.

Yeah, that's a problem for the United States that wants to economically cripple Russia while they build pipelines to provide energy to Europe. If the US has to kill a few million people to do it, and go to war, well, oh well. That's the thinking of the psychopaths in power of this country.

Eric Holder says

Russian operation to take over Crimea started in late February before new Ukrainian government could voice any opinion on that agreement because it wasn't even formed then.

Russia cannot afford to lose their only warm water port. The issue was exacerbated by the fact that Petro Poroshenko was a fucking Nazi and was agitating the population to attack ethnic Russians. Crimea is more than 95% Russian so they snapped together a real quick (and dubious) resolution to either become an independent nation or to join Russia. Well, they joined Russia.

NONE OF THIS SHIT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine.

The more the US meddles, the more they fuck up, or at least that is the appearance. For all I really know, this is EXACTLY the plan. For all I know the purpose of invading Afghanistan was to increase opium production during an interim time then hand over their rare earth metals to China. The US often hides behind incompetence "Oh ISIS keeps getting armed with US weapons because Iraqis won't guard the armories" - that's pretend incompetence, when it was always the intent of the intelligence agencies to arm ISIS with US weapons.

I really don't know ultimately what is going on. I'm just fucking tired of my country meddling everywhere and then telling me STUPID FUCKING LIES as to why they are. Like I'm some sort of moron that can't tell these mother fuckers are lying to my face, using MY MONEY to do it. It's destroying this country, but again, perhaps that's exactly what they intend to do.

I'm tired of people supporting it, falling for it.

richwicks says

Russia cannot afford to lose their only warm water port.

So "It's not mine but I need it" is now a valid argument for taking? Is this the standard that you advocate?
richwicks says

The issue was exacerbated by the fact that Petro Poroshenko was a fucking Nazi and was agitating the population to attack ethnic Russians.

I'm now reconsidering my earlier assertion that you are not a bot.

My fear of a Ukraine conflict is that it will give the China Doves cover to ignore an attempt to take back Taiwan while the West is involved with the Donbas.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

Are you REALLY comparing Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine to the US' destruction of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan?

Don't strawman me: I'm not comparing anything. I'm not having whataboutism conversation either. You asked for examples and I gave them to you.

richwicks says

I do. They are the go to propaganda of the United States. Anybody that doesn't want to restart the fucking Cold War and end up in a nuclear arms race, is a Russian bot.

I never stated that you are a Russian bot. I may give it some possibility, but to me it seems more likely that your mental process is corrupted: avoiding propaganda from one side, you fell right into the arms of a much cruder version of it on the other side.

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

Look, the US doesn't do anything other than to advance agendas. They don't fucking care if Assad is gassing his own people, they don't give a shit if Israel is wiping out Palestinians, they don't fucking care if Ukraine has a democratic system, and they don't give a damned if Putin is putting journalists in jail or killing political opposition. There's absolutely NO MORALS involved with the actions of United States. It's all strategic.

What are the RESULTS of what the US has been doing with Russia in the last 20 years? Well, Russia has a harder time exporting energy. The US is building an parallel system to supply energy to Europe. They had "freedom gas". The war in Syria, if it was won, would allow a pipeline to go in from the Golan to Turkey. Russia has to keep re-routing their pipelines.

It's obvious this is about energy.

I don't care about the "moral implications" of any of this - NEITHER side does.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

Most likely shot down by Ukraine in an accident. Some people have pointed out that the MH17 looked a lot like Putin's plane

Of course "some people pointed out". https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mh17-seven-years-of-lying-and-denying/?source=patrick.net - it's right there, right after "They were already dead" and before "Spanish dispatcher Carlos". Kremlin bots worked overtime in those weeks,

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

It was however used to demonize Russia for months and to make yet another excuse to do sanctions. Just like the incident with the Skripal's. British Intelligence fingered two innocent (and probably homosexual) tourists as the perpetrators - it was UTTERLY ridiculous. NOBODY died from that except the Skripal's pets which were left in the house to starve to death - probably die of dehydration. APPARENTLY the people going through the home in hazmat suits didn't notice the two gerbils and 1 cat that were left. In any case, they didn't pull them, the cat DID survive, but it was so fucked up they euthanized it.

There's the 3 victims of the mastermind plot to get Sergei Skripal - but it was an excuse to have MORE sanctions!

It's hilarious. The Skripals have disappeared. Perhaps they are dead. They aren't useful now.

Qui bono? That's the only question I ask. When Putin wants to (supposedly) murder an ex-agent, does he arrange to have a "botched robbery" like with Seth Rich - oh no, not novel enough, find a NERVE AGENT that can ONLY BE TRACED TO RUSSIA to make CERTAIN that Russia, and ONLY RUSSIA, can be blamed.

PUTIN: I want Sergei Skripal eliminated
ASSASSIN: Da. Do you want me to knife him, shoot him, take him out in a "car accident", have him commit "suicide"?
PUTIN: Nyet!
ASSASSIN: How?
PUTIN: Smuggle in a very dangerous nerve agent, and wipe it on his door in the hope he will touch it and maybe die from it.

It's fucking hilarious.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

If you are referring to Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine, it's not an established fact.

Please. It's not an established fact only to someone who swallows RT hook line and sinker.

Noooo. It's only established fact to anybody that thinks ANYTHING this fucking lying government says should even be considered to be true.

Our "news" media played audio "proof" that Russia shot down MH-17, which was an OBVIOUS forgery. Like, our intelligence agencies are so fucking stupid they allowed this to go on air because they fabricated it, or they are so fucking incompetent they can't spot an obvious forgery. They don't care about their credibility a bit apparently, so they don't have any credibility with me.

There's 500 people in jail right now for an "insurrection" which Antifa and BLM lead. They don't give a shit if you believe them but for some reason, you do. I don't. I don't believe our government bombed Libya to prevent a humanitarian crisis, that they attacked Syria because they believe Assad was using chemical weapons, that they attacked Iraq because Hussein had a secret weapons of mass destruction program. My government is filled with scum. They are obvious liars, why should I believe ANYTHING they say?

When they put Bush in prison for lying us into a war, Clinton into prison for apparently selling classified information and shut down the Clinton Foundation, when they admit the ACTUAL reasons they go to war, and they stop lying to me fucking constantly, AFTER THAT, I'll listen to any of their bullshit explanations. But not until then. They have



credibility with me. Do you think that's unreasonable after 20 years of fucking constant lying? Just they stole an election.

Does this mean that Russia has more credibility to me than the US Federal government? Nobody has LESS credibility with me than the US Federal government.

richwicks says

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

That's not what it looks like. You don't care about US propaganda. You do seem to care about Russian propaganda, and spread their talking points. Some of the things that you spread here can be found ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY in Russian propaganda sources.

richwicks says

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

Don't strawman me, yet again. I never said that Russia did it on purpose. From the very beginning the only version that made sense was, and still remains, that it was a tragic accident: Russians thought that they were shooting down a transporter. Girkin (their talking head) made an announcement to that effect, which was promptly taken down. You ask "how did it help Russia?" Keeping in mind that mistaken identity is THE version, your question is a tell for detecting a troll. There are other tells too, glad to share if requested.

I have no interest in your diversions away from the topic, so I skipped the parts about how horrible our government is. It only reconfirms my best-case opinion: that trying to escape one propaganda source, you embraced the other. That best-case opinion assumes that, despite the tells, you are not a troll.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

That's not what it looks like.

I cannot control your perceptions.

mostly_reader says

You don't care about US propaganda. You do seem to care about Russian propaganda, and spread their talking points.

I just look at who is benefiting from what has happened. If that HAPPENS to coincide with "Russian propaganda", it might be because Russia is telling the truth. Propaganda when it is done well is difficult to find a contradiction in it. Only really good lies have no contradictions in them and are entirely plausible. US has really shitty propaganda, and if it's Russian propaganda, they have really good propaganda I guess, because I'm independently coming to the same conclusions that they are lying about, because it makes sense - not because I'm listening to RT or reading Pravda and Izvestia.

mostly_reader says

Some of the things that you spread here can be found ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY in Russian propaganda sources.

Hmm, that's interesting!

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

Don't strawman me, yet again. I never said that Russia did it on purpose. From the very beginning the only version that made sense was, and still remains, that it was a tragic accident: Russians thought that they were shooting down a transporter. Girkin (their talking head) made an announcement to that effect, which was promptly taken down. You ask "how did it help Russia?" Keeping in mind that mistaken identity is THE version, your question is a tell for detecting a troll. There are other tells too, glad to share if requested.

Oh, OK, I can see it as being a possible accident on the part of the Russian military but I don't see how a commercial airline jet could be mistaken for a military transporter. But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war, and the flight path should have been registered with Russia who WASN'T at war. Ukraine was more likely to make the mistake.

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment. It quite possible it was. When the Lusitania was sunk, it was sunk because the Germans believed it was carrying arms for WWI - and it was. Our governments have no compunction about putting civilians into danger or even killing them.

mostly_reader says

I have no interest in your diversions away from the topic, so I skipped the parts about how horrible our government is. It only reconfirms my best-case opinion: that trying to escape one propaganda source, you embraced the other.

No, I haven't.

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can. The US doesn't. They'll lie when it's not even necessary to lie. Lying is the policy of the US government.

Here's a question - try to find a hole in one of Russia's stories. I've pointed out a few of the West's already. The Skripal story is my favorite, because it's so over-the-top ridiculous.

Does the Ukraine have nukes? 💣

richwicks says

But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war

Nope. There were no Ukrainian BUKs within reach.richwicks says

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can.

You are either extremely naive or intentionally misleading.

All right, this was fun.

MAGA says

Does the Ukraine have nukes? 💣

Nope. Ukraine surrendered it's nukes in exchange for security assurance backed by US, UK, and (wait for it!) Russia. The Budapest Memorandum - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances. Needs to be remembered each time that "Russia could be a partner" thought comes to mind.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war

Nope. There were no Ukrainian BUKs within reach

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true. MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane. Too bad those black boxes that the West confiscated were never made public - doesn't matter if they are now, since so much time has passed they could have been easily doctored by now. I wonder why the secrecy?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can.

You are either extremely naive or intentionally misleading.

That doesn't give me any information or pushback to make me consider I'm wrong.

The west confiscated the remnants of the plane, they released doctored audio footage that was obviously faked all over our news that implicated Russia, and they haven't released the black box recordings and they have a known and consistent history of trying to frame Russia over and over again in all sorts of silly plots, the Skripal's being the stupidest one that I know of.

It doesn't mean that because the West is lying that Russia is telling the truth, it's just that I CORRECTLY estimate the credibility of Western media at ZERO. I'm not wrong about that.



If the West wanted credibility, they'd stop being such fucking liars and would stop praising them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/18/politics/colin-powell-dies/index.html?source=patrick.net

Look at how CNN sucks the shit right out of his dead asshole. POSSIBLY the United States had a justifiable reason to go to war with Iraq? Maybe, but if they did, they've never revealed that reason. My hunch is that if they lied, they HAD to lie, because the truth wouldn't be a justifiable reason for war.

Where's the mix-up in my reasoning?

richwicks says

Sure, that will keep people warm, and well fed!

Yeah, well it did for over a Century in the modern era. The problem, the BIG problem with Europe. If you wanted an Authentic France or Italian experience, you went to Europe and visited those countries. Fast forward to the Global economy and decades of importing refugees from all over Africa. Those Countries are now so diluted, that you get a more authentic European experience walking down your Publix grocery isle, than you do in European countries. They've allowed the Commies and the imported filth to deface and destroy the historical landmarks and destinations to the point, nobody wants to go. Couple that with Covid travel nightmares. And you're right, they don't have any resources.

The European vacation experience, was a real tangible economic resource. I remember moving to South Florida when it catered to Tourist and Snowbirds. Even without building or any other industry, our hospitality industry boomed and flourished. Also as a Flooring contractor back then, we got more work and made more money in the "Season" from November to March, than we did the rest of the year. I made more money back then in just four months, than I ever made all year, when we gave up our Snowbird industry.
We chased them all up North so the Real Estate bidding wars on their property could kick off the RE bubble that gripped the world. Yeah, we did that, we were ground Zero to start flipping 800sqft shit shacks.

Now that's all we've got!

richwicks says

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment.

No, they shot it down because it strayed over into Soviet airspace. The Soviets had no way of knowing what was carried aboard. At that time airlines navigated primarily by INS (inertial nav) using a series of waypoints. My professional opinion is that the crew missed inputting a waypoint in the navigation system, and thus took a direct route from one waypoint to another across Soviet airspace.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment.

No, they shot it down because it strayed over into Soviet airspace. The Soviets had no way of knowing what was carried aboard. At that time airlines navigated primarily by INS (inertial nav) using a series of waypoints. My professional opinion is that the crew missed inputting a waypoint in the navigation system, and thus took a direct route from one waypoint to another across Soviet airspace.

I have no opinion on that and I certainly don't have the expertise to make an informed judgement. I have the same view of the USSR's integrity of information as I do with the current US'.

According to the USSR, 007 refused to acknowledge repeated attempts to contact them, but who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if the USSR was completely full of crap. They also had a very bad habit of never admitting error, even when it was obvious they delivered a triple distilled class A fuckup.

Personally, I'm glad to see the USSR on the trash heap, what I'm worried about is a similar system springing up in the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Europe.

The creation of the USSR seemed to advantage the lowest economic levels of society in Russia in the early 1900's. Peasants that had no previous access to education suddenly had it, but at a great cost and disruption to their life including loss of their land and centuries of custom. Centralized control is awful, you can see that with Fauci today here. Central assholes are dictating that doctors can't prescribe Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine to patients - maybe those drugs DON'T work, but that's for the patient and doctor to decide not some bureaucratic dickhead.

richwicks says

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true.

Positions of all BUKs that were in the vicinity are well documented. You are denying the obvious and the well established.
richwicks says

MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane.

No, it couldn't. Analyzes of the projectiles demonstrated beyond shadow of doubt that they came from BUK, even to the extent of pointing out the exact model (they changed the shape of the elements from version to version slightly)

There is a reason why Russia fought tooth and nail to deny the obvious. That reason goes well beyond public image or compensations to the relatives. Presence of that type of BUK and of personnel trained to operate that type of BUK completely destroyed their narrative of the war in Ukraine being a civil war. Ukraine didn't have that type AFAIR, and "farmers and miners" couldn't have learnt to operate it in the field. It was, and still is, damning evidence of Russia invasion into Ukraine.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true.

Positions of all BUKs that were in the vicinity are well documented. You are denying the obvious and the well established.

Documented by whom? What makes you think that the "documentation" wasn't altered? It's entirely conceivable records would be altered in the event of an error that killed hundreds of people, and it certainly would have happened if it was actually intentional murder.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane.

No, it couldn't. Analyzes of the projectiles demonstrated beyond shadow of doubt that they came from BUK

Again, this is from these same fucking assholes:



They aren't credible. They aren't fucking credible. Stop telling me "well, the liars who fucking lie us into wars, and lie about the Skripals and lie about coups, they're not lying this time" - maybe they aren't - but they have no credibility. They've cried wolf hundreds of times, not just twice.

The United States and Europe in general have told some of the stupidest, fucking most moronic, childish lies EVER about Russia. Just stuff that is so fucking stupid, just insulting to anybody with any sense of intelligence or self awareness.

WRT Ukraine, there's no question there was a coup there. We know because Victoria Nuland when she said "Fuck the EU" was telling the EU that they had NO SAY in who the next "leader" of Ukraine was going to be - that was going to be an American decision a MONTH before Viktor Yanukovych was removed from power. They were caught RED HANDED in doing that coup, and still insist it was a "revolution". They lie even when they are fucking caught dead to rights.

They have ZERO CREDIBILITY when it comes to ESPECIALLY Ukraine.

I don't fucking listen to these people. They are compulsive liars, anything they say I simply ignore. They will tell you water is dry, and black is white, Trump is a Putin Puppet, Hillary Clinton didn't know that "C" stood for classified, and Hunter Biden is selling artwork and is a real artist, that there was an "insurrection" on January 6th, that Joe Biden is the most popular presidential candidate in all of history, we are facing the most deadly pandemic ever, and that the vaccines work, but unvaccinated people are a threat to the vaccinated. Fuck them, they have no credibility, I don't give a single thought as to what they say. I don't waste ANY OF MY TIME listening to them. They can be, and SHOULD be entirely ignored.

> richwicks
Arguing via doctored images now, are we? Google (or duckduckgo) "russia mh17 doctored photos" and enjoy. From their version of BUK locations (debunked) to the doctored image of an airplane which (by their version) took down MH17. Trouble is, it turned out that the airplane would've been several miles long on that scale. The fcukers couldn't even produce a decent forgery.

And now here you are, offering some of your own. Same training?

mostly reader says

> richwicks
Arguing via doctored images now, are we?

Here, prefer the real one?



See, what we're supposed to believe is that Colin Powell brought in a deadly chemical weapon into the UN in a glass vial to present to the ambassadors there, and nobody saw a problem with that. Holding it with two fingers, good thing he didn't slip, or the world would be a better place, OR we would have found out that the vial was filled with Dick Cheney's cum.

mostly reader says

Google (or duckduckgo)

Haha. It's an open secret in Silicon Valley, where I live, that Google is basically a disinformation arm at this point of the intelligence agencies.



Find a source that doesn't fucking lie to my face.

I only go off on "who benefits" and my nation has no qualms whatsoever about sacrificing people's lives to promote an agenda.

I know:

1) a plane was shot down
2) the US disseminated doctored audio that supposedly proved Russia did it, audio that was proven to be falsified
3) the West confiscated everything from the plane and would not allow any Russian involvement
4) they didn't immediately release the recording of the black box, and today it's only available as a transcript
5) blaming Russia for the downing of the plane advantages US interests.
6) the United States engineered a coup in Ukraine, they didn't have a revolution.

That's it. I can draw a reasonable conclusion from that.

HunterTits says

None of that translates I into military capacity to stop Putin from rolling into Ukraine.

But that too, is not our problem.

Second part is absolutely true - in grand scheme of things Ukrainian problems are not US problems (other than losing ephemeral prestige of guaranteeing Budapest agreements). However, I liked Trump politics - sell arms to Ukraine. US gets $$$ and Ukraine can defend themselves. WIN-WIN!

I specifically pointed out duckduckgo. Why did you ignore it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17?source=patrick.net
"The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine."

It's dishonest to mention the falsified audio and not to mention LOADS, LOADS, and MORE LOADS of bullshit that Russia threw into the mix - from open forgeries to false witnesses. You are as far from "reasonable" as it gets. Your 6 points, particularly their selectivity, are damning. But not in a way that you seem to think.

richwicks says

Who cares what is "internationally recognized"? Why do YOU think this is relevant? Every fucking government is run by a criminal syndicate. Oh, the criminal syndicates don't "recognize" the country. As if anybody, including you, should give a shit about their dumb fucking "opinion".

By that logic, US invasion of Iraq and Syria is perfectly fine. Kurds wanted US troops there, they wanted US attack, so bombing Saddam and Assad was all fine and dandy...you apply different logic to Russia vs. USA.

richwicks says

Ukraine because the Donetsk region has a high number of Russians living there, S. Ossetia to repel invading Georgians at the request of the S. Ossetian government.

Kurds in Syria and Iraq, Albanians in Kosovo, etc. US behaves in exactly the same way as Russia.

richwicks says

Explain the logic. Being able to read Russian makes no difference, anymore that being able to read English makes any difference in understanding MY nation.

A lot of information about Russia is exclusively in Russian.

richwicks says

Really? Name the 7 wars.

Ukraine, Georgia twice, Moldova, CAR, Syria (they did not start but they participate), Libya (did not start but participate), Chechnya twice. Probably something else that I have forgotten.



richwicks says

No, a strong nationalistic Poland disadvantages the EU which in turn disadvantages the United States. A strong nationalistic anything in the EU is a disadvantage to the EU. They intend to become a singular political bloc. We all know that.

No we don't know that. Poland is extremely pro-American, and is widely hated in Europe for that. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to EU and an advantage to US as in they buy a lot of US weapons. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to Russia as in they will help Ukraine.

richwicks says

I'm pretty quick in spotting logical fallacies at this point.

Did you spot logical fallacies in your own reasoning, for example in all US invasions bad, all Russian invasions good?

About Malaysia airlines, the likely explanation is so-called "monkey with a grenade" or in Russian "obez'jana s granatoi". Russians gave local Donbass alcoholics an advanced weapon system and they fired at SOMETHING, which turned out to be a civilian aircraft. There is a snippet of local Donbass separatist news where an hr after downing the airplane they boasted about shooting down Kiev regime transport plane. One of Donbas separatist leaders (Girkin) admitted to shooting down the plane.

But of course all of this information is in Russian, and knowledge of Russian is not necessary for some to come to conclusions about anything happening in former USSR...

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Who cares what is "internationally recognized"? Why do YOU think this is relevant? Every fucking government is run by a criminal syndicate. Oh, the criminal syndicates don't "recognize" the country. As if anybody, including you, should give a shit about their dumb fucking "opinion".

By that logic, US invasion of Iraq and Syria is perfectly fine. Kurds wanted US troops there, they wanted US attack, so bombing Saddam and Assad was all fine and dandy...you apply different logic to Russia vs. USA.

No, the invasions didn't do anything for the United States. It has only hurt the United States. My definition of the "United States" doesn't mean "the government of the United States", it's the people of the United States.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Ukraine because the Donetsk region has a high number of Russians living there, S. Ossetia to repel invading Georgians at the request of the S. Ossetian government.

Kurds in Syria and Iraq, Albanians in Kosovo, etc. US behaves in exactly the same way as Russia.

Russia is free to waste as much money as they want.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Explain the logic. Being able to read Russian makes no difference, anymore that being able to read English makes any difference in understanding MY nation.

A lot of information about Russia is exclusively in Russian.

I'd just be hearing hearsay anyhow.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Really? Name the 7 wars.

Ukraine, Georgia twice, Moldova, CAR, Syria (they did not start but they participate), Libya (did not start but participate), Chechnya twice. Probably something else that I have forgotten.

A short incursion is not the same thing as years upon years of wars, and trillions of dollars spent.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

No, a strong nationalistic Poland disadvantages the EU which in turn disadvantages the United States. A strong nationalistic anything in the EU is a disadvantage to the EU. They intend to become a singular political bloc. We all know that.

No we don't know that. Poland is extremely pro-American, and is widely hated in Europe for that. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to EU and an advantage to US as in they buy a lot of US weapons. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to Russia as in they will help Ukraine.

"Pro-American" can mean many things. I'm pro-American, which is why I'm anti Federal government, because my government is anti-American. I don't confuse this shit government with this nation. I don't think the Poles do either.

Europe's governments are strongly pro American federal government, and anti-American.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I'm pretty quick in spotting logical fallacies at this point.

Did you spot logical fallacies in your own reasoning, for example in all US invasions bad, all Russian invasions good?

OK, the US has bombed Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, and Somalia in the last 20 years.

Name all the ways this has helped this country - NOT OUR CRIMINALS IN POWER (I know the Sackler family did well in Afghanistan, Halliburton did well in Iraq, a bunch of other criminals were HOPING to do well in Syria, etc) - how have 20 years of wars improved this nation?

I don't care of Russia destroys itself. Wars are neither "good" nor "bad" - they are beneficial or detrimental. I don't see in any way how any of the last 20 years of wars the US has engaged in have been beneficial to this nation in any way, and several ways they have been detrimental.

Bd6r says

There is a snippet of local Donbass separatist news where an hr after downing the airplane they boasted about shooting down Kiev regime transport plane. One of Donbas separatist leaders (Girkin) admitted to shooting down the plane.

But of course all of this information is in Russian, and knowledge of Russian is not necessary for some to come to conclusions about anything happening in former USSR...

Find the clip or it doesn't matter.

If it's worthwhile, I'll find somebody that can translate it.

If the clip can't be found, then it may as well not exist.

I used to collect lies of our "news" media, but it's pointless at this point because 1) I have so much 2) everything is a lie.

richwicks says

No, the invasions didn't do anything for the United States. It has only hurt the United States. My definition of the "United States" doesn't mean "the government of the United States", it's the people of the United States.

Russians invading neighboring countries also did not do much positive things for Russia. These changed relatively pro-Russian Ukrainians into anti-Russian ones. Basically, Russians made enemies all around their country...
richwicks says

Russia is free to waste as much money as they want.

That is absolutely true. But we should not say that this Russian waste of money is different from US waste of money...other than not being our business
richwicks says

I'd just be hearing hearsay anyhow.

You would be able to, for example, listen to what Doneck separatist leaders say etc. Much more information available, including about the Malaysian airlines that you make statements above.
richwicks says

A short incursion is not the same thing as years upon years of wars, and trillions of dollars spent.

Russian troops are in Moldova since 1992, for example. I believe this does not qualify as a "short intrusion"
richwicks says

Name all the ways this has helped this country

I have never claimed that any of these wars have benefitted USA.
richwicks says

I don't care of Russia destroys itself. Wars are neither "good" nor "bad" - they are beneficial or detrimental. I don't see in any way how any of the last 20 years of wars the US has engaged in have been beneficial to this nation in any way, and several ways they have been detrimental.

Agreed, but then I don't understand your whitewashing of Russian aggressions. They are not much if any of US business, but one should not say that US attacking someone is wrong while at the same time excusing nearly identical Russian attacks. That does not make any logical sense.