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Shadow Inventories - Can We, Taxpayers, Take Action?


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2011 Aug 17, 5:06am   9,430 views  45 comments

by bmwman91   ➕follow (5)   💰tip   ignore  

As I am sure most readers of Patrick (and Dr. Housing Bubble / Irvine H.B.) know, there are loads of properties out there that banks are silently holding as part of their extend-pretend strategy. While their books contain toxic assets, there will be associated costs. When they sell these toxic assets, they still usually lose some money. Ultimately, it seems like us taxpayers are responsible for footing this bill. Certainly, unwitting investors in MBS trash also pay a price, but given the massive bailouts & behavior of the Fed, it seems like banks are mostly covering losses with money stolen from The People.

In having conversations with coworkers & friends, it seems that the majority of people are largely oblivious to all of this. Folks that bought houses seem the most out of touch with with happenings in the RE world. I cannot say I blame them, particularly since many bought houses in the last decade. When you were a kid and though that there was a monster under the bed, you pulled the covers over your head & pretended it wasn't there. I think that the same psychological mechanism exists for loanowners today, and I certainly cannot blame them. At the same time, a number of potential buyers seem clueless about the reality of things. They "research" purchases through real estate agents and generally seem to trust them. Really, the biggest issue I see with real estate right now is a general lack of informed people. While sites like this obviously attract concerned & impassioned individuals, we are most definitely in the minority. Certainly, in bubble areas like the Bay Area, the uninformed majority has no problem keeping the illogical side of real estate going strong, while we come in here grating our teeth.

So, can we work to spread information to "the masses"? Obviously, that is this site's intent, but we all know that "the masses" get their news from mass media outlets. They want infotainment provided to them passively, and finding this site (or even going to it) is probably too much of an active demand. Many here will cynically remark that major news outlets will never spread the type of information found here because they are servants to the banks. There is probably some truth there. Nevertheless, I think that it might be worthwhile to try to put some information together and to provide it to some of the larger local newspapers. I mentioned the shadow inventory at the beginning. Well, I think that that topic might be the easiest place to start. There seems to be a fair amount of data available regarding it, and it certainly seems to involve a lot less speculation than topics concerning future home values. Ideally, I would like to see a piece published that provides information about the size of the shadow inventory, and just how it is being paid for.

If we were to try to get some information published with a paper, how would we go about doing that? It seems to me that we would provide them with the basis for a story and supporting data, and then their people would verify sources & do whatever further work was necessary to get it "credible" and publish it. I haven't ever tried to do something like this, so I could use some input. There are the obvious hurdles here, like how much the newspaper is owned by the financial industry, and whether or not they are willing to piss off the NAr / entities that buy ad space for RE listings. Anyway, I was hoping that we could brainstorm some ways to disseminate information to the masses. We can piss & moan about the absurdity of the RE market on here all day, and it IS fun, but I think that it would be worthwhile to think about ways to attack the source of the problem. In my opinion, the source of the problem is an uninformed general public that continues to feed the insanity. While groups like the NAr are also huge problems, we all know that we can't do anything about them at the moment. We need to start targeting their targets.

Thoughts? Given the size of Patrick's site & members, it seems like we might be capable of affecting some change in the community.

#housing

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41   Â¥   2011 Sep 7, 7:34am  

corntrollio says

No, I'm talking about $1.1M.

After my $1.1M above I said "if jumbos went that high" -- I meant if the conforming limit was that high.

There aren't that many millionaires being created by these two corporations any more

I don't know about GOOG but Apple grants stock that vests over 4 years. 1000 shares a year vesting @ under $100 will create stock millionaires left & right (worker bees don't get 1000 shares but managers do). Any Apple employee taking advantage of the ESPP for 5 years last decade would now own AAPL at a basis of $60,000 and with an average buy price of under 30 that would be 2000 shares owned free and clear.

42   corntrollio   2011 Sep 7, 8:28am  

Bellingham Bob says

I don't know about GOOG but Apple grants stock that vests over 4 years. 1000 shares a year vesting @ under $100 will create stock millionaires left & right (worker bees don't get 1000 shares but managers do).

If you think Apple is granting 1000 shares/year to large numbers of people, I have a bridge to sell you. I know what a typical Google grant to a new employee is, and even for a typical highly compensated employee, it's not anywhere near 1000 shares/year (nor was it when the NYT article that detailed a typical grant was written several years ago, when people were getting larger numbers of shares). In addition, the share price was over $100 four years ago for AAPL, and if you sold the typical number of shares yearly, as it vests, you don't get anywhere near $1M. Even with ESPP, a lot of people will buy under ESPP for the discount and sell ASAP.

The ongoing/annual grants are not as large as the initial grants either. Anyone getting 1000 shares/year must be insanely high up and likely already has a pile of money and a Bay Area house in the so-called Fortress.

We could take a poll -- how many Bay Area people who get 4 year vesting stock grants hold all the stock for four years? I vote that I have not done this -- I have always sold the stock every year as it vests. Most people have little interest in having a significant portion of their portfolio tied up in employer stock. There are certainly exceptions, but it's the exception.

43   PockyClipsNow   2011 Sep 7, 8:38am  

I donate to patrick once in a while.

I really like 'truth tellers' but its a tough life.

44   Â¥   2011 Sep 7, 8:46am  

corntrollio says

If you think Apple is granting 1000 shares/year to large numbers of people, I have a bridge to sell you

I just said worker bees don't get that grant. But Apple has 15,000 engineering employees or more now. ~1500 of them are king bees. 1500 is a "large number of people" for the area supply to take up.

There are certainly exceptions, but it's the exception.

Right. Apple is a BIG exception. Literally. They're $3B behind XOM in market cap today.

45   corntrollio   2011 Sep 7, 10:51am  

Bellingham Bob says

I just said worker bees don't get that grant.

Yes, and I just said that even highly compensated individuals aren't likely to get anywhere near that number on a yearly basis. We're talking C-level, executive-suite stuff.

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