patrick.net

Wow, agents telling the truth? No wonder NAR sees Redfin as a threat.

I wouldn't bank on the whole "dam is ready to break" theory on the shadow inventory. I've been hearing rumors like this for over 2.5 years. But they're likely right that prices are going to continue to fall.

NAR sees Redfin as a threat? I did not realize that. I use them because they just show me the homes and tell me the truth. More often than not if I get a man they point out everything wrong with the house structurally. If I want to make an offer it is NOT via the agent that shows the house, so there is no hard sell.

BAC does have tens of thousands of foreclosures it has been holding off the market while foreclosures mount. They will have to come to market sooner of later.

That's what all agents say. They give you the "don't buy now" material to win your trust as if they are working in your best interest. Then all of a sudden, they call you and say WOW I HAVE A HOT PROPERTY FOR YOU AND IT IS PRICED RIGHT. And you will believe them since they are working for your best interest.

They also seem to appear more knowledgable than other agents by saying don' buy now.

I talked to a Realtor's son this past weekend. He said his father tells prospective buyers that it's not a good time to buy. He does believe this to be true, but he also does it because he knows that it will win trust with the potential buyer.

Is redfin really saying that? Or is one guy, as a former broker i would tell this to buyers that i knew were going to waste my time for the next year, look a hundred houses, and say the market was too high in the end. This way i could get them to stop requesting tours and taking up my weekends. It may be too high, heres a news flash every salesperson is trying to make money off of you. Stop whining about it.

It's pretty obvious none of you have ever dealt with Redfin. You never get the same Realtor. They don't make money off your sale. You have to submit all your pre-approval paperwork so they know you are a pre-approved buyer and for how much.

take all the Realtor BS you have in your heads and throw it out.

Tude says

It’s pretty obvious none of you have ever dealt with Redfin. You never get the same Realtor. They don’t make money off your sale. You have to submit all your pre-approval paperwork so they know you are a pre-approved buyer and for how much.
take all the Realtor BS you have in your heads and throw it out.

If they are not getting commission, then Redfin must be paying them a very high salary. And why would they keep paying a low performer a high salary? Standard is broker takes 10% of the entire commission. Redfin changed it up so that broker keeps 50%. And the agents are okay with that? They are so happy and cheerful. I suspect we do not know the whole story of the compensation situation with Redfin.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/02/pm-discount-realty/

Redfin can afford this because its agents work mostly online, rather than driving clients around on house tours and trolling for new business at open houses. And it pays them in a completely different way.

ALLIE HOWARD: I'm actually paid a salary to do what I do.

Allie Howard was one of Redfin's first agents in Seattle. I met her at the company's annual meeting. On top of her salary, she gets a bonus based on customer satisfaction, rather than a cut of the commission.

HOWARD: And I don't have that extra pressure of being nervous about losing a potential commission. I can just give the very best advice that I can. Sometimes it's brutally honest, people don't like it. But nobody wants to go on the market at the wrong price, and waste six months of their lives while their property goes down the tubes.

It happened to me yesterday when I went to see a short sale.. The redfin agent was honest and she completely agreed with me on how bad the home was for the asking price.. I was surprised too..

Isn't redfin still JUKING THE STATS for graphs of listing prices?

Gotta love the wire :)

carbon steel says

Is redfin really saying that? Or is one guy, as a former broker i would tell this to buyers that i knew were going to waste my time for the next year, look a hundred houses, and say the market was too high in the end. This way i could get them to stop requesting tours and taking up my weekends. It may be too high, heres a news flash every salesperson is trying to make money off of you. Stop whining about it.

carbon steel says

Just because you are a salesman does not necessarily mean that you are a criminal psychopath, although criminal psychopaths gravitate toward "outside sales" as a way to hide their criminality cloaked in a "profession".

Where did we learn this? From studies of criminal psychopaths who were in prison. These con-artists know other cons on site and know how grifters operate. From used car salesman, door to door subscription sales, circus side show touts and stock brokers, they know the game. But there are honest salesman, that aren't part of the criminality. It makes one wonder why the NAR declines to investigate its own members after allegations of wrong doing emerge? If only 10% of them are psychopaths ( a low figure) , they would need over 10,00 field investigators just to ferret out the complaints. Instead they leave it to local associations who don't have the training or interest. Imagine being arrested for a small crime, and learning that your defense attorney was your prosecutor!! Thats "Dual agency" representing BOTH sides "equally"...with the listing broker as the puppet master.!

Is redfin really saying that? Or is one guy, as a former broker i would tell this to buyers that i knew were going to waste my time for the next year, look a hundred houses, and say the market was too high in the end. This way i could get them to stop requesting tours and taking up my weekends. It may be too high, heres a news flash every salesperson is trying to make money off of you. Stop whining about it.

Tude says

And I don’t have that extra pressure of being nervous about losing a potential commission. I can just give the very best advice that I can. Sometimes it’s brutally honest, people don’t like it.

I'd like to see them pull that in front of their higher bosses. There probably is some corporate written policy to this that they were all trained on in terms of how to answer these types of questions. Then there's the "Make them feel you are on THEIR side" policy.

There was a Redfin agent in my area that got fired. Probably didn't make enough sales. Who knows.

the banks are playing games, and Bank of America is getting ready to start listing their tens of thousands of foreclosures from BAC/Countrywide after a nearly 1.5 year moratorium.

is this just on the west coast. I'm on the east coast, Massachusetts - let the games begin or I should say end. The banks strategy makes no sense to me. Are they planning on releasing inventory throughout the country or just West Coast. Would be nice to see some relief in these high prices. I've decided to build because it's actually cheaper. They are not offering any FHA construction loans in the state so if you want to build you have to have a chunk of change. Contractors are doing little building if at all, so land prices dropping and sitting. I've run the numbers and can get a brand new modular for a lot cheaper than one of these beat up bank owned properties.

Come-on people, Redfin makes money from selling houses (and your browsing history). They are not the federal government. They can't print money to pay their "field agents." At the end of the day, they have to compete with other "realtors" and try to sell YOU a house.

vain says

There was a Redfin agent in my area that got fired. Probably didn’t make enough sales. Who knows.

Article: Redfin fires 50 agents

42 had bad customer reviews. 8(16%) lied and gave fake customer surveys.

I also believe it's still a bad time to buy and that housing is still artificially inflated. When I think back over the half century+ that I've been around, I can easily recall what kind of house people could afford, with a reasonable loan, back at least as far as the 1960s. The fact is, a well built house that has adequate space was more affordable many times over those past decades than it is now, even though the bubble has burst now. It may have burst but the industry and govt at the behest of industry are artifically blowing air back into it, delaying the inevitable. When we reach the absolute bust or close to it, I MIGHT consider buying again, but only IF it makes sense in all the traditional ways. Such as, will I be staying there for at least several years if not longer. These days, people need quick mobility since their employment may be depend upon it. A house is a liability, not an asset. And it's certainly not an investment!

david losh says

redfin is a Real Estate sales company. That is the business model. The technique is called the take away, and is used extensively by redfin. They market online to get you in the car to build credibility. This is another obvious online plant, but hey, it’s sales.
Yes, a hot deal will come on the market so don’t worry, you’ll be on the watch list.
The idea is to build a buyer data base so you can be targeted. redfin is a rebate Brokerage, watched and prized by all the real huge corporate Real Estate companies as a way to sort and target the buyer pool. By being a rebate brokerage you have a reserve of money at closing that can be targeted.
It always surprises me that people don’t get that redfin gets millions in venture capital, but is viewed as some grass roots, consumer based, company.

Redfin has never contacted me with any marketing. Every house I ever looked at with Redfin, I found myself on the website and requested a tour. I think you are mistaken.

carbon steel says

Is redfin really saying that? Or is one guy, as a former broker i would tell this to buyers that i knew were going to waste my time for the next year, look a hundred houses, and say the market was too high in the end. This way i could get them to stop requesting tours and taking up my weekends. It may be too high, heres a news flash every salesperson is trying to make money off of you. Stop whining about it.

How about this...if the realtor sites would put more than 10 pictures of a house and some bare bones stats we wouldn't need to call you for houses we're on the fence about. I want a hundred pictures and some video for an actual virtual tour. Give me the sales data farther back than 10 years. Give me everything you know about the house and when I call for a tour I'll already be sold on the house.

How about this…if the realtor sites would put more than 10 pictures of a house and some bare bones stats we wouldn’t need to call you for houses we’re on the fence about. I want a hundred pictures and some video for an actual virtual tour. Give me the sales data farther back than 10 years. Give me everything you know about the house and when I call for a tour I’ll already be sold on the house.

Right on...... That's what I say. They post two photos, one of the house and another of the beach 3 blocks from the house. I'm not going to be living in the yard. Give the photos up. Also they don't want to post the address. How can I do a drive by to check out the neighborhood? I agree if you don't want to do the tours give people the data. I want to see the sales history of the home and the assessment values. I also want to see how many days this home has been on the market and not just with you but also with the 6 realtors before you.

Don't ask realtors about when is a good time to buy period. Make your own judgement on stats and independent research (avoiding NAR stats). The truth is, nobody is 100% but some will of course guess right!

I have actually started doing drive by's of any house I am interested in now before I ever request a tour. If it is foreclosure I will go in the yard, peek in the windows, check out the neighborhood and speak with neighbors if they are around. It is true, the realtors take few pictures, and try to make the house look good, ignoring glaring problems. But you can typically see many of the problems if you do a drive by.

On the subject of the address, some don't put an address, but almost all ads will list the following information (example), with which you can easily obtain the address

Property Information

Sq. Ft. Source: Public Records
Tax Property ID: 272230030
Parcel #: 272230030
Census Tract: 3530.01

why does BoA need to unload their properties ? i thought they have every motivation to delay selling those.....

Rule #1: Never believe realtors. Whatever they say may or may not be true.

My girlfriend got a realtor license (in San Diego), she started to show me houses to buy. Wait a minute, I remember Rule #1.

MoneySheep says

Rule #1: Never believe realtors. Whatever they say may or may not be true.
My girlfriend got a realtor license (in San Diego), she started to show me houses to buy. Wait a minute, I remember Rule #1.

Haha, walking on a tightrope.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Then you can pick up a house for the price of a good used car, which is a reasonable price for a box with a door.

"Box with a door" is excellent! Never heard it put that way before.

Hmm. Well, after using redfin for years to look at the market I'm about to start dealing w/ them tomorrow. Putting in an offer on a place up on Skyline (Woodside, SF Bay Area). It's more than we want to spend but I consider it to be worth what they're asking so we're going to put in an offer for the list price (I expect it to be bid up but it'll be good practice to get pre-approved, submitting the offer, etc). We visited the place during an open house yesterday so I won't have dealt w/ redfin to view any properties.

The amusing thing was that, upon finding out we were going to use redfin, the listing agent running the open house started bad mouthing them ("You know you have to deal with multiple agents." "Who cares?") and then when we told her about the rebate told us that SHE could work a similar deal. Uh yeah. There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer's agent. Conflict of interest anyone? Also, I've used a ton of redfin's bandwidth over the years and based on the fact that every time we visit an open house the listing agent bad mouths them I would like redfin to stay in business.

grywlfbg says

There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer’s agent. Conflict of interest anyone?

I agree there is a conflict of interest, but if you are going to do most of the work, why do you care? You've already looked at the house. You will get your own inspector and appraiser. What would a Redfin agent provide you that the listing agent won't? They have a bit of a conflict of interest too (no sale, no money). You already said the price is a good deal, so it's not like their "expertise" will help in evaluating price. All they do is provide you with boilerplate forms that they'll probably fill in wrong anyway. The only benefit of a Redfin agent is the refund/discount, and you said the listing agent would do the same. Plus, if the listing agent gives you back 2% of the 6% commission, he/she's making an extra 1% over the typical 3%, so he/she may be more inclined to go with you than someone else who brings their own agent.

grywlfbg says

then when we told her about the rebate told us that SHE could work a similar deal. Uh yeah. There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer’s agent. Conflict of interest anyone?

You do realize that when you have the listing agent be your buyer's agent, you get a better deal? If she got just half of what the buyer's agent would be getting, she's still making more money than she would have been just being the listing agent.

so he/she may be more inclined to go with you than someone else who brings their own agent.

This is a big problem. It seems the listing agents don't want to accept reasonable offers from buyers who are represented by other agents for fear of having to split the commission. I made an offer on a home for 200k (very distressed property) Listing agent would not even entertain the offer. I was willing to negotiate and go as far as 230k. We had to threaten her in order for her to deliver the offer (still not sure if she actually did). She said her buyer refused. She later brought in her own buyer and sold for 210k. Like I said, I would have gone up to 230k had she come back with a counter.

I am currently looking at a house that assessed out at 309k two years ago. They are asking 327k today. The comps are 310k, 265k and 285k. All three sold 6 months ago. Market has been steadily descending for the past 2 years. The house that was 310k is a comp but it is also 1100 sft larger than the home for sale. I put an offer of 280k. The listing agent was disgusted. What on earth is going on?????? When I asked to see the comps he used to price the house, he says he doesn't have time for this too busy. What???

rubyrae says

The house that was 310k is a comp but it is also 1100 sft larger than the home for sale. I put an offer of 280k. The listing agent was disgusted. What on earth is going on?????? When I asked to see the comps he used to price the house, he says he doesn’t have time for this too busy. What???

Submit the same offer to the seller bypassing the agent altogether. Tell the seller what their agent said about your offer. Worst case scenario is the seller concurs with their agent, but there's a good chance you may end up getting another lying, self-serving agent fired.

I had the same thing happen at an open house in Simi Valley a week ago. When the broker could see I wasn't a "bend over", and that we shared some things in common...he told me not to buy for 3-5 years! I was blown away.

My loan officer recently told me about a close friend who's in the REO dept at BofA who told her that they have 100,000 properties they would be releasing for sale in the first 6 mos or so of this year.

Little more info on my situation. Turns out the agent showing the home was NOT the listing agent - she works in the same office as the listing agent and was just hosting the open houses for him. But still, my statement above stands. I have been using redfin to search for houses for years and so I want to give back. Also, during this offering process the redfin agent has been very responsive and none of his statements have kicked off my BS meter. He's letting me drive - answering questions and/or offering advice when I ask but otherwise doing what I ask. So far I'm happy.

rubyrae says

This is a big problem. It seems the listing agents don't want to accept reasonable offers from buyers who are represented by other agents for fear of having to split the commission.

same issue here in houston. there is a agent law with the realtors that they will not even write up or present any offer for less than list price and lie that they have several over listing price offers already but nothing ever sells.

Unknown says

same issue here in houston...and lie that they have several over listing price offers already but nothing ever sells.

That is a region, national, and international problem it seems with realtors. Pretty much uncovered in Canada and Australia. Many havent woken up to the practice exists here in the USA.

It will be the third and last leg to fall in the correction (aka recovery).

Same thing going on in southern cali, if you don't go with the listing agent you lose, If they represent the buyer and seller, they simply say to their buyer "you might have to up your offer a little since i've had an offer come in from another agent" Since they also represent the buyer, as a buyer you ask what would you suggest? So your offer will be beat out by a few thousand. And you woun't get the chance to put in a higher offer. And they can represent it as the best offer to the bank or seller.

klarek says

Wow, agents telling the truth? No wonder NAR sees Redfin as a threat.

I wouldn't bank on the whole "dam is ready to break" theory on the shadow inventory. I've been hearing rumors like this for over 2.5 years. But they're likely right that prices are going to continue to fall.

The reality NAR faces is that their entire business is based on lack of transparency in the real estate market. As long as the buyer does not know anything about all the other properties and values NAR can be a profit machine middle man.

But with online mls they aren't needed anymore. RedFin is something like 20/month, thats a lot less than paying some jackass 6% of the property value.

It's going to be painful for NAR types, real estate data is all online, there are multiple online mls, all county assessor data is online too. realtors are doomed.

Barney_Franks says

Don't ask realtors about when is a good time to buy period. Make your own judgement on stats and independent research (avoiding NAR stats). The truth is, nobody is 100% but some will of course guess right!

I have never heard a Realtor® say "it's a bad time to buy". Never.

Make your own bottom, make offers 20% less then listing price.

Meditate ; Why did Real Property sales prices become detached from reality ?

When you have the answer, you will KNOW true value.

hint: 1973 then 1983