patrick.net

I feel just a little bit sick. But that's how it goes when it's not really even about money anymore, it's about having MORE.

Let's see, if the typical household income is $50,000 per year, then $50,000,000 is a thousand years of income.

Woah, a thousand years...

When you need 60 million.

The man has a point though, regardless of how much he is worth. Those big business types seem to be driven more for the need to succeed and excel than to make another million. Hiding your business behind the flag feels good for a little while till you realize how much easier it is to do business elsewhere. While I am grateful that business continues here, I don't know why it does. Ca. is a perfect example here in the states. Ca. makes it far more difficult to run a business here than, say, Az. or Nevada. Lots of our businesses have moved because of it.

In fact, Mr. Buckley is hugely successful. He just wants more. $50M...

Thats OK,
Tiger Wood is worth $110M and all he does is hit a ball with a stick.
Phil Mickelson is worth $62M and he too just hits little balls over the grass with a stick.
LeBron James is worth $45M and all he does is dribble his balls down the court.
Charlie Sheen is worth $66M from his acting gig, but pretty much blows it on coke and slaps his balls on his pornstar-girlfriend's face.

And some are angry over some CEOs pay...
He is right we are way Anti-Business in this country.

This is about as good an example as you can find of what's wrong with objectivist political thinking. You have to ask, just how much more can this guy eat?

The issue we have is not the rich versus everyone else, but rather a mindset which says that there can never be enough personal wealth even if other people are impoverished and hurt. With such thinking it's okay to reduce winter fuel allowances for the poor, vaccines for children or diminish the local job base.

Alternatively, many who are rich would readily accept higher taxes -- think of Gates and Buffett -- because they understand that higher taxes are cheap when compared with social anarchy. An example of social anarchy are the people who can afford their mortgages but walk away.

OurBroker says

“there is a sense among companies that this is a difficult place to do business. It is about regulation, taxation, seemingly anti-business policies in Washington

To relate a story I am familiar with: a brick making business that has been producing its product the same way for over 100 years. They have been disposing of the NATURAL by-product in their own land fill the same way for their entire history. One day, the EPA showed up and decided what they were doing wasn't right and decided to fine them a fairly large sum of money. The company refused to pay the fine and ended up in court. After $500 thousand in legal fees, they won their case. They "won" but suffered the cost of their legal battle. It nearly put them out of business. Just one example of what it is like to do business in the good old USA. Then people wonder why those evil corporations move their operations out of the country.

RayAmerica says

OurBroker says

“there is a sense among companies that this is a difficult place to do business. It is about regulation, taxation, seemingly anti-business policies in Washington

To relate a story I am familiar with: a brick making business that has been producing its product the same way for over 100 years. They have been disposing of the NATURAL by-product in their own land fill the same way for their entire history. One day, the EPA showed up and decided what they were doing wasn’t right and decided to fine them a fairly large sum of money. The company refused to pay the fine and ended up in court. After $500 thousand in legal fees, they won their case. They “won” but suffered the cost of their legal battle. It nearly put them out of business. The owners decided they’ve had enough and sold their business. Just one example of what it is like to do business in the good old USA. Then people wonder why those evil corporations move their operations out of the country.

What company was this? Just curious...

The Belden Brick Company ... Sugarcreek, Ohio.

Ray --

Not good news for the brick company, but how about some context: The reason companies move overseas is in large measure cheap labor, few if any requirements for healthcare or pensions and the ability to lawfully avoid US taxes.

As an example on the tax front, Bloomberg reports that "Google Inc. cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda.

"Google’s income shifting -- involving strategies known to lawyers as the “Double Irish” and the “Dutch Sandwich” -- helped reduce its overseas tax rate to 2.4 percent, the lowest of the top five U.S. technology companies by market capitalization, according to regulatory filings in six countries."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

This is not to say we are without gross inefficiencies and stupidities in our system, but there are also benefits such as a stable society and little likelihood that you or your children will be kidnapped. Those who favor an environment with low taxes, no pensions and no government healthcare might want to move to Haiti.

"Since the 1960s, Ireland has pursued a strategy of offering tax incentives to attract multinationals. A lesser-appreciated aspect of Ireland’s appeal is that it allows companies to shift income out of the country with minimal tax consequences"

You might as well damn the Irish for that...

politicians forget that business has choice. We’re not indentured servants and we will do business where it’s good and friendly.

By business friendly, I think he means where he can find indentured servants.

thomas.wong1986 says

In fact, Mr. Buckley is hugely successful. He just wants more. $50M…
Thats OK,

Tiger Wood is worth $110M and all he does is hit a ball with a stick.

Phil Mickelson is worth $62M and he too just hits little balls over the grass with a stick.

LeBron James is worth $45M and all he does is dribble his balls down the court.

Charlie Sheen is worth $66M from his acting gig, but pretty much blows it on coke and slaps his balls on his pornstar-girlfriend’s face.
And some are angry over some CEOs pay…

He is right we are way Anti-Business in this country.

Thomas Wong does have a good point. I often wonder why all the rage is directed at CEOs, but celebrities like John Stewart get a pass.

Tom brings up athletes and says "In fact, Mr. Buckley is hugely successful. He just wants more. $50M? Thats OK, Tiger Wood is worth $110M and all he does is hit a ball with a stick. Phil Mickelson is worth $62M and he too just hits little balls over the grass with a stick. LeBron James is worth $45M and all he does is dribble his balls down the court. Charlie Sheen is worth $66M from his acting gig, but pretty much blows it on coke and slaps his balls on his pornstar-girlfriend?s face. And some are angry over some CEOs pay? He is right we are way Anti-Business in this country."

Paying to watch an athlete is entirely voluntary and a luxury in our society.

Moving established jobs from Minnesota to Mexico is a business decision that can damage entire communities. If your neighbor loses his job and is foreclosed then the value of YOUR home will fall, even if you bought for cash. If you neighbor has no income then local taxes will fall and there will be fewer services available to you.

A CEO is a corporate leader. A CEO can't bat or dribble or act with enough skill to earn millions. Instead, he gets his money not only by serving his shareholders but also by furthering the interests of his workers, community and country. Throwing people out of work to boost dividends is hardly moral, and if criticism is labeled "anti-business" so what. It's criticism that's deserved.

OurBroker says

Moving established jobs from Minnesota to Mexico is a business decision that can damage entire communities. If your neighbor loses his job and is foreclosed then the value of YOUR home will fall, even if you bought for cash. If you neighbor has no income then local taxes will fall and there will be fewer services available to you.

The communities need to understand the cost of doing business is too expensive locally to compete in a global econony. It doesnt work when majority believe all their homes are all worth a million a pop, and they all wrongly believe their employer will keep footing the bill.
We seen this in Detroit and we seen this in Silicon Valley.

Notice that it's "anti-business" to complain about greedy practices which hurt the country but fair and balanced for the radical right to gasp at the pensions paid to teachers. (Of course, the radical right does not insist that police and fire department employees reduce their pensions, apparently because there is no budgetary impact. But wait, after teachers and janitors are screwed police and fire personal will be next.)

You confuse "anti-business" with the objection to overwhelming greed.

It's okay, apparently, for executives to collect bonuses and shareholders to get larger dividends when workers are let go. That's not a sharing of anything. Whatever happened to the concept of community? Or, for want of a better term, patriotism?

But there are business people who get it.

When Jim Justice bought the Greenbrier hotel in West Virginia he rehired the 650 workers let go the year before by CSX. Justice already had a billion dollars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2011/03/04/ST2011030403066.html

When Malden Mills in Massachusetts burned down, the owner, Aaron Feuerstein , could have closed the place and kept $300 million in insurance. Instead, he kept all workers on the payroll until the place could be re-built.

"We insist," said Feuerstein, "the business must be profitable . . . But we also insist a business must have responsibility for its workers, for the community and the environment. It has a social obligation to figure out a strategy, which will be able to permit workers to make a living wage. There's a responsibility to the workforce, to this community."

http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=355

When the Peer Bearing Company in Illinois was sold, the owners -- the Spungen family -- distributed $6.6 million in bonuses to all 230 employees -- an average of $28,695 apiece. Most employees also got to keep their jobs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27958458/ns/business-consumer_news/

Hey, notourbroker:

I tried to read your link but it going to an ad. I'm not interested.

Ellie --

No ads from me. I'm not sure to which link you are referring but give me an idea and I'll try again.

Thanks.

Nomograph says

Then why does CA produce over 13% of the entire US GDP while AZ contributes less than 2%?
I’ve lived in CA more or less all my life, and as far back as I can remember certain people have been crying that CA is so “business-unfriendly” and that everyone is moving out of state. Funny, all the doom-and-gloom never seems to materialize.
CA has an highly educated, productive, and competitive workforce that is extremely entrepreneurial by culture. Not everyone can make it here, so I’m thinking it’s mostly sour grapes

Chief Executive's fifth annual survey asked 543 CEOs to evaluate their states on a broad range of issues, including proximity to resources, regulation, tax policies, education, quality of living and infrastructure. Providing additional insight to the evaluations, CEOs were also asked to grade each state based on the following criteria: 1) Taxation & Regulation, 2) Workforce Quality, and 3) Living Environment

Best -
Texas Ranked no1.
North Carolina
Florida
Georgia
Tennessee

Worst-
California Ranked 51st -- Last
New York
Michigan
New Jersey
Massachusetts

CNBC has it down as 32th...48th in Cost to do Business, and if your too expensive you move ops elsewhere.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516043/

Like many, local SV companies already have moved their ops elsewhere. There certainly isnt 300K HP employees in the BA nor are there 82,000 Intel employees... But keep being in denial.

Nomograph says

Fireballsocal says

Ca. makes it far more difficult to run a business here than, say, Az.

Then why does CA produce over 13% of the entire US GDP while AZ contributes less than 2%?
I’ve lived in CA more or less all my life, and as far back as I can remember certain people have been crying that CA is so “business-unfriendly” and that everyone is moving out of state. Funny, all the doom-and-gloom never seems to materialize.
CA has an highly educated, productive, and competitive workforce that is extremely entrepreneurial by culture. Not everyone can make it here, so I’m thinking it’s mostly sour grapes.

Ca. has a much greater population than Az. and the great ports of frisco and long beach. We have a huge amount of farming as well as cheap labor and Ca. wasn't always as business unfriendly as it is now. The doom and gloom has and is materializing. I see it all around me. Is business here dead? Of course not. Could it be better? Of course and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be.

To date, countries with low corporate taxes and "business friendly" policies have all went bankrupt:

Ireland: 12% coirporate tax rate, BANKRUPT

Iceland: 15% corproate tax rate, BANKRUPT

Greece: 25% corporate tax rate, BANKRUPT

Dubai: 0% corporate tax rate, BANKRUPT

Interesting -- what is the source of this data?

>>>To date, countries with low corporate taxes and "business friendly" policies have all went bankrupt: Ireland: 12% coirporate tax rate, BANKRUPT Iceland: 15% corproate tax rate, BANKRUPT Greece: 25% corporate tax rate, BANKRUPT Dubai: 0% corporate tax rate, BANKRUPT

The catch here is that our effective corporate tax rate is far lower than stated because companies pay much less than they should on paper -- see the Google example above.

Top 10 States with Highest Unemployment Rates:

42 MISSISSIPPI, Low Tax
43 GEORGIA, Low Tax
43 KENTUCKY, Low Tax
43 OREGON, Low Tax
46 SOUTH CAROLINA, Low Tax
47 MICHIGAN
48 RHODE ISLAND, Low Tax
49 FLORIDA, Low Tax
50 CALIFORNIA
51 NEVADA, Low Tax

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Iceland and Taiwan to Slash Corporate Tax Rates

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/iceland-and-taiwan-to-slash-corporate-tax-rates/

Analysis: Ireland's corporate tax in dispute in EU rescue

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/19/us-ireland-tax-idUSTRE6AI3HN20101119

Tax rates around the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

HousingWatcher says

To date, countries with low corporate taxes and “business friendly” policies have all went bankrupt

Well, plenty of businesses can go bankrupt from too-high taxes. Or just relocate. Those countries also had bigger issues than just corporate taxes, so it's a bit specious to claim this as an argument against lower corporate taxes.

Nevada, because of their much friendlier business and tax climate, is currently the "headquarters" of quite a few major corporations whose physical headquarters are in southern California. Imagine all these big companies running the majority of their business and state taxes through Nevada. California gets screwed, but nothing they can do as long as a token amount is ascribed to California and there's Californicators on the payroll.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. Someone found the magic words "effective tax rate". Yes the US has a high corporate "tax rate" but it also has the highest number of deductions and tax loophose by far. All this breast beating about corporate taxes is just political smoke screen. Actual corporate taxes PAID in the US is far from high.

Taxes not paid by corporations are simply a form of hidden welfare.

The House just removed mortgage assistance to the unemployed on the grounds that the program was too costly.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h836/show

If we cut off mortgage assistance to people who are unemployed what happens next? Homes are foreclosed and the value of neighborhood real estate -- including your real estate -- declines.

In the end corporations pay less than their fair share and families wind up on the street.

OurBroker says

The House just removed mortgage assistance to the unemployed on the grounds that the program was too costly.

Got to love a law that singles out homeowners as a special class of citizen to shower money upon if they're unemployed., but leaves renters high and dry in the same situation.

OurBroker says

Homes are foreclosed and the value of neighborhood real estate — including your real estate — declines

Its called RISK! should of thought about that when families overpaid and factored BOTH members of household had to work to bearly afford the monthly payment.

RE declining.. now thats a shocker.. when it ever dawn on many RE prices actually do fall.
Shocking!!!!

Why should corporations foot the bill for blind stupity of the pubic buyers.. thats nuts!

Tom says "Why should corporations foot the bill for blind stupity of the pubic buyers.. thats nuts!"

Here's what's nuts: Every loan, without exception, is subject to underwriting. Lenders have an obligation to decline loan applications if they represent too much risk. If families were overpaying then lenders -- being prudent -- should have said no to the loans.

But, the bigger point is this: Loan officers and lenders have no fiduciary obligation to borrowers. The borrower depends on lenders for programs, rates and advice but is not assured of the best programs, the best rates or the best information.

The situation is so bad that a small number of lenders -- the UpFront Mortgage Brokers Association — have actually formed an association where they agree that LENDERS should have a fiduciary obligation to borrowers. See:

http://www.ourbroker.com/mortgages/responsibility-but-didnt-the-borrower-sign-the-mortgage/#axzz1GUyLvtVA

The result of the present system is obvious: the Wall Street Journal reports that 55 percent of all subprime borrowers qualified for conventional, VA or FHA financing in 2005, a figure which rose to 61 percent in 2006. Had these borrowers gotten better financing, the financing allowed by their credit, many could have avoided higher costs, prepayment penalties and foreclosures. Lenders, of course, would have avoided higher fees and more profits. See:

http://www.ourbroker.com/mortgages/fha-banks-multi-billion-profits-wants-more-022712/#ixzz1GfD5Klef

Mark writes and says "Got to love a law that singles out homeowners as a special class of citizen to shower money upon if they’re unemployed., but leaves renters high and dry in the same situation."

Agreed.

Washington is a world of special interests. For 20 points name the largest and most important association of renters? How much money is in its PAC?

For 50 points, even better, name the largest association of mortgage borrowers and tell us how much money is in their PAC?

Is it any wonder that renters and borrowers are the last groups considered?